It's getting very confusing now. Parts of greater Manchester are having surges in infections, yet today, the extra lockdown rules in places like Bolton and Trafford have been lifted. These decisions are being made in London, where obviously they have no clue as to what is happening further North. Andy Burnham is right in telling people to ignore government advice, they have no idea what they are doing..
"Restrictions on social gatherings for more than half a million people in two of England’s worst-hit areas have been lifted, despite councils warning the government it was too soon to lift the measures.
The government pressed ahead with the lifting of restrictions for more than 520,000 people in Bolton and Trafford in north-west England overnight despite a surge in the number of cases in both areas.
Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester, on Wednesday criticised the decision as “completely illogical” and urged residents in the two boroughs to ignore government advice and continue to follow restrictions.
“We find ourselves in a completely unsustainable position this morning. That’s the politest way I can put it,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme “Overnight we’ve had restrictions lifted in two boroughs with rising cases – in one case in the red zone – and neighbouring boroughs are still under restrictions but with much lower numbers of cases."
People moaning about so-called U-tuns is getting on my nerves. Things can change fast. You can get spikes in the matter of days, in food factories or wherever. We've had one here recently. The Government aren't mind readers.
-- Edited by JP on Wednesday 2nd of September 2020 03:56:01 PM
They have done a quick U-turn because the Mayor of Manchester, who though Labour has supported the government since this virus first emerged, has been all over the BBC news advising the people in these areas to ignore the government advice, which WAS to lift the lockdown.
No one is expecting them to be mind readers, they should however listen to local councils who actually know more about what's happening in the areas they live in than someone down South who suddenly don't seem to know their arse from their elbow.
How do they know more. They get any figures that they have from the central Governments scientists.
A few days ago they announced things would be lifted at midnight last night. The figures had improved. Things at that time a few days ago met the criteria set by the Government and their experts. A spike of infection occurred rapidly over the last few days though. The numbers rose. Things had to change and the lifting of restrictions could then not occur. That's how I've read the situation.
I don't think its difficult to understand how this could happen. Figures can change again in the matter of days.
Like I said there's recently been a food factory outbreak here, one minute we were sailing along with infection rates as long as anyone in the entire Country. But now out of the blue things changed and the situation is looking a fair bit more precarious.
Its absolute rubbish and political point scoring imo if anyone compares unprecedented pandemic U-turns with any other U-turns. These aren't your normal U-turn. Its obvious.
Getting another Brexit extension beyond the end of the year that would be a "proper" U-turn. Doing something that goes against a major promise in a manifesto that's a U-turn.
JP said
Sep 2 7:16 PM, 2020
Maddog wrote:
JP wrote:
British researchers have found another drug that helps higher percentages of people whom have serious covid illness to survive and pull through. The very well known drug hydrocortisone. Anything that is proven to increase the chances of survival is clearly a good thing.
It's also clearly good that these kinds of drugs are easily accessible right now in most parts of the World. Other Countries may want to conduct their own studies first, but I think many Countries will just fast track it. Trump for one has already said that about the other fairly recent discovery, dexamethasone.
Amazing what you can discover when you search and test hard!
Yeah things are so much better now than they were months ago. I still don't want it, but it appears to be far less dangerous now, than it was when it was new.
I don't think they hardly even use ventilators anymore.
I think the Swedes might wind up looking pretty good when this all over. Guess we shall see.
I don't know if your news is like ours. Scaremongering to extremes. Very pessimistic. Making things sound far worse than they actually are. And not reporting anything even just a bit positive. It pisses me off. News coverage quality and media standards have dropped a lot over the years.
I've just watched almost the whole half an hour of a daily news bulletin on one our main TV stations no mention of the hydrocortisone discovery as far as I heard.
-- Edited by JP on Wednesday 2nd of September 2020 07:17:16 PM
Syl said
Sep 2 7:16 PM, 2020
I dont know the latest figures, but I do know that according to Andy Burnham and local counsellors from Bolton and Trafford who were on the BBC news mid morning, that the lockdown was set to be lifted today even though the infection rates are amongst the highest in the country and increasing. They said the central government had not responded to their requests to keep the lockdown in place, which is why they had advised the people who live in the worst affected areas to ignore government advice.
How do they know more? because they live here, they see and hear what's going on, Bolton especially is now on red alert and has the highest infection rate in greater Manchester and greater Manchester is still one of the worst hit places in the UK.
-- Edited by Syl on Wednesday 2nd of September 2020 07:20:09 PM
JP said
Sep 2 7:19 PM, 2020
Syl wrote:
I dont know the latest figures, but I do know that according to Andy Burnham and local counsellors from Bolton and Trafford who were on the BBC news mid morning, that the lockdown was set to be lifted today even though the infection rates are amongst the highest in the country and increasing. They said the central government had not responded to their requests to keep the lockdown in place, which is why they had advised the people who live in the worst affected areas to ignore government advice.
How do they know more? because they live here, they see and hear what's going on, Bolton especially is now on red alert and has the highest infection rate in greater Manchester and greater Manchester is still one of the worst hit places in the UK.
Who's infection rate figures do they view?
PHE?
Locally sourced, local experts?
Syl said
Sep 2 7:20 PM, 2020
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
I dont know the latest figures, but I do know that according to Andy Burnham and local counsellors from Bolton and Trafford who were on the BBC news mid morning, that the lockdown was set to be lifted today even though the infection rates are amongst the highest in the country and increasing. They said the central government had not responded to their requests to keep the lockdown in place, which is why they had advised the people who live in the worst affected areas to ignore government advice.
How do they know more? because they live here, they see and hear what's going on, Bolton especially is now on red alert and has the highest infection rate in greater Manchester and greater Manchester is still one of the worst hit places in the UK.
Who's infection rate figures do they view?
PHE?
Locally sourced, local experts?
I just added a link.
JP said
Sep 2 7:34 PM, 2020
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
I dont know the latest figures, but I do know that according to Andy Burnham and local counsellors from Bolton and Trafford who were on the BBC news mid morning, that the lockdown was set to be lifted today even though the infection rates are amongst the highest in the country and increasing. They said the central government had not responded to their requests to keep the lockdown in place, which is why they had advised the people who live in the worst affected areas to ignore government advice.
How do they know more? because they live here, they see and hear what's going on, Bolton especially is now on red alert and has the highest infection rate in greater Manchester and greater Manchester is still one of the worst hit places in the UK.
Who's infection rate figures do they view?
PHE?
Locally sourced, local experts?
I just added a link.
Well the main thing I get from that is at the start U-turn forced by "rising infection rates".
I call that doing the right thing. Like I said clearly things can change fast when it comes to infection rates.
So even a few days back Andy and others said it shouldn't be lifted anyway. That's another debate that one, does the Government and their experts need to adopt an even stricter criteria. I don't know.
It all comes back to this fine balance between potentially saving lives thing and getting the economy going an giving people a bit of their normal life back.
John Doe said
Sep 2 10:34 PM, 2020
I see Trump had tweeted more conspiracy supporting bullshit before it was deleted - the man is just pure scum.
-- Edited by John Doe on Wednesday 2nd of September 2020 10:34:45 PM
Maddog said
Sep 2 11:19 PM, 2020
JP wrote:
Maddog wrote:
JP wrote:
British researchers have found another drug that helps higher percentages of people whom have serious covid illness to survive and pull through. The very well known drug hydrocortisone. Anything that is proven to increase the chances of survival is clearly a good thing.
It's also clearly good that these kinds of drugs are easily accessible right now in most parts of the World. Other Countries may want to conduct their own studies first, but I think many Countries will just fast track it. Trump for one has already said that about the other fairly recent discovery, dexamethasone.
Amazing what you can discover when you search and test hard!
Yeah things are so much better now than they were months ago. I still don't want it, but it appears to be far less dangerous now, than it was when it was new.
I don't think they hardly even use ventilators anymore.
I think the Swedes might wind up looking pretty good when this all over. Guess we shall see.
I don't know if your news is like ours. Scaremongering to extremes. Very pessimistic. Making things sound far worse than they actually are. And not reporting anything even just a bit positive. It pisses me off. News coverage quality and media standards have dropped a lot over the years.
I've just watched almost the whole half an hour of a daily news bulletin on one our main TV stations no mention of the hydrocortisone discovery as far as I heard.
-- Edited by JP on Wednesday 2nd of September 2020 07:17:16 PM
Yes, it's much the same here. I think the idea is to keep people fearful to error on the side of caution. The problem with that is, after a while of that, people don't see all of the terrible events that were threatened, and they just stop listening. We already have a fairly shitty view of the press and government.
Most people I know are wearing masks indoors in public areas, staying 6 feet away from strangers when they can, especially indoors, and going on about their business.
Other than that, I'm doing restaurants, having beers on patios or in a some of the bars/breweries that are open, and using common sense.
Maddog said
Sep 3 12:06 AM, 2020
JP wrote:
Maddog wrote:
JP wrote:
British researchers have found another drug that helps higher percentages of people whom have serious covid illness to survive and pull through. The very well known drug hydrocortisone. Anything that is proven to increase the chances of survival is clearly a good thing.
It's also clearly good that these kinds of drugs are easily accessible right now in most parts of the World. Other Countries may want to conduct their own studies first, but I think many Countries will just fast track it. Trump for one has already said that about the other fairly recent discovery, dexamethasone.
Amazing what you can discover when you search and test hard!
Yeah things are so much better now than they were months ago. I still don't want it, but it appears to be far less dangerous now, than it was when it was new.
I don't think they hardly even use ventilators anymore.
I think the Swedes might wind up looking pretty good when this all over. Guess we shall see.
I don't know if your news is like ours. Scaremongering to extremes. Very pessimistic. Making things sound far worse than they actually are. And not reporting anything even just a bit positive. It pisses me off. News coverage quality and media standards have dropped a lot over the years.
I've just watched almost the whole half an hour of a daily news bulletin on one our main TV stations no mention of the hydrocortisone discovery as far as I heard.
-- Edited by JP on Wednesday 2nd of September 2020 07:17:16 PM
Also, I know a handful of nurses on the front lines. There was a short time about a month or so ago where they were getting a little worried about the trajectory. Now they are out doing there stuff, living life, and not real worried.
I get nervous when they get nervous. They aren't really worried about it right now.
Anonymous said
Sep 3 1:22 AM, 2020
Is Madrid leading Spain and Europe into a Covid second wave?
Madrid’s health system coming 'under severe strain' as cases grow and Europe looks on
How do they know more. They get any figures that they have from the central Governments scientists.
A few days ago they announced things would be lifted at midnight last night. The figures had improved. Things at that time a few days ago met the criteria set by the Government and their experts. A spike of infection occurred rapidly over the last few days though. The numbers rose. Things had to change and the lifting of restrictions could then not occur. That's how I've read the situation.
I don't think its difficult to understand how this could happen. Figures can change again in the matter of days.
Like I said there's recently been a food factory outbreak here, one minute we were sailing along with infection rates as long as anyone in the entire Country. But now out of the blue things changed and the situation is looking a fair bit more precarious.
Its absolute rubbish and political point scoring imo if anyone compares unprecedented pandemic U-turns with any other U-turns. These aren't your normal U-turn. Its obvious.
Getting another Brexit extension beyond the end of the year that would be a "proper" U-turn. Doing something that goes against a major promise in a manifesto that's a U-turn.
I have just listened to a radio prog about this JP.
I was right when I said central government had not responded for days, almost a week, to local government advice to them not to lift the lockdown in two areas.
In GM the infection rates for some boroughs are the highest in the country, especially Trafford, figures have been rising alarmingly over the last week, government did not respond to any of the local councils warnings, and only on the day the lockdown was to be lifted did they do an about turn.
No one is expecting them to be mind readers, but had they looked at the rising figures they wouldn't have to be.
There have been some really heartbreaking stories, especially from people who have loved ones in care homes, where they were told restricted visits would be possible from yesterday, only to learn on the day that they wont.
JP said
Sep 3 3:59 PM, 2020
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
How do they know more. They get any figures that they have from the central Governments scientists.
A few days ago they announced things would be lifted at midnight last night. The figures had improved. Things at that time a few days ago met the criteria set by the Government and their experts. A spike of infection occurred rapidly over the last few days though. The numbers rose. Things had to change and the lifting of restrictions could then not occur. That's how I've read the situation.
I don't think its difficult to understand how this could happen. Figures can change again in the matter of days.
Like I said there's recently been a food factory outbreak here, one minute we were sailing along with infection rates as long as anyone in the entire Country. But now out of the blue things changed and the situation is looking a fair bit more precarious.
Its absolute rubbish and political point scoring imo if anyone compares unprecedented pandemic U-turns with any other U-turns. These aren't your normal U-turn. Its obvious.
Getting another Brexit extension beyond the end of the year that would be a "proper" U-turn. Doing something that goes against a major promise in a manifesto that's a U-turn.
I have just listened to a radio prog about this JP.
I was right when I said central government had not responded for days, almost a week, to local government advice to them not to lift the lockdown in two areas.
In GM the infection rates for some boroughs are the highest in the country, especially Trafford, figures have been rising alarmingly over the last week, government did not respond to any of the local councils warnings, and only on the day the lockdown was to be lifted did they do an about turn.
No one is expecting them to be mind readers, but had they looked at the rising figures they wouldn't have to be.
There have been some really heartbreaking stories, especially from people who have loved ones in care homes, where they were told restricted visits would be possible from yesterday, only to learn on the day that they wont.
Yes. But its easy to go down a blame game route.
Arguments could be made that local authorities in the worst affected areas haven't all along... Been doing a very good job at getting local messages over. May be some places would have done better if those in charge locally had been able to get the messages through to some of the locals better and local communities better.
It's easy to pass the buck.
-- Edited by JP on Thursday 3rd of September 2020 04:05:43 PM
Syl said
Sep 3 6:52 PM, 2020
It's not a matter of passing the buck. If the government ignores local councils when they request umpteen times for the lockdown not to be lifted in specific areas...and with very good reason, that is the fault of Tory central government....no one else.
I know you support them, and though I would never vote for them I have said from the start they have done a good job in unheard of circumstances, but the fact is that lives of ordinary people who live in the areas I have mentioned have been made a lot more difficult than need be by the way central government have ignored local government facts and figures....then at the 12th hour done a complete U-turn.
Blimey JP, even Boris admits he makes mistakes in judgments sometimes....why cant you?
JP said
Sep 3 7:16 PM, 2020
Syl wrote:
It's not a matter of passing the buck. If the government ignores local councils when they request umpteen times for the lockdown not to be lifted in specific areas...and with very good reason, that is the fault of Tory central government....no one else.
I know you support them, and though I would never vote for them I have said from the start they have done a good job in unheard of circumstances, but the fact is that lives of ordinary people who live in the areas I have mentioned have been made a lot more difficult than need be by the way central government have ignored local government facts and figures....then at the 12th hour done a complete U-turn.
Blimey JP, even Boris admits he makes mistakes in judgments sometimes....why cant you?
What mistakes am I to admit here?
I'm only saying how I see events.
Why do you think some areas of the Country have had far higher infection rates throughout than others?
Its too easy to Blame Boris and CO for everything.
Syl said
Sep 3 7:33 PM, 2020
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
It's not a matter of passing the buck. If the government ignores local councils when they request umpteen times for the lockdown not to be lifted in specific areas...and with very good reason, that is the fault of Tory central government....no one else.
I know you support them, and though I would never vote for them I have said from the start they have done a good job in unheard of circumstances, but the fact is that lives of ordinary people who live in the areas I have mentioned have been made a lot more difficult than need be by the way central government have ignored local government facts and figures....then at the 12th hour done a complete U-turn.
Blimey JP, even Boris admits he makes mistakes in judgments sometimes....why cant you?
What mistakes am I to admit here?
I'm only saying how I see events.
Why do you think some areas of the Country have had far higher infection rates throughout than others?
Its too easy to Blame Boris and CO for everything.
You cant seem to think logically about any criticism aimed at the government.
They were wrong in this instance, for a start they ignored for almost a week the info they were being given from various local sources, including Mayor Andy Burnham who has a reputation for being absolutely on top of things in GM, re the rapidly increasing infection rate in areas , particularly Trafford,, that didn't happen overnight. Boris and co should have listened and not carried on insisting the lockdown would be lifted.
I don't blame Boris for everything, I have said many times I think he has led the government splendidly since this virus began.
I dread to think how it would have gone if Corbyn had been PM, and Starmer seems to be eager to criticise freely too without actually saying much himself.
John Doe said
Sep 3 7:40 PM, 2020
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
It's not a matter of passing the buck. If the government ignores local councils when they request umpteen times for the lockdown not to be lifted in specific areas...and with very good reason, that is the fault of Tory central government....no one else.
I know you support them, and though I would never vote for them I have said from the start they have done a good job in unheard of circumstances, but the fact is that lives of ordinary people who live in the areas I have mentioned have been made a lot more difficult than need be by the way central government have ignored local government facts and figures....then at the 12th hour done a complete U-turn.
Blimey JP, even Boris admits he makes mistakes in judgments sometimes....why cant you?
What mistakes am I to admit here?
I'm only saying how I see events.
Why do you think some areas of the Country have had far higher infection rates throughout than others?
Its too easy to Blame Boris and CO for everything.
You cant seem to think logically about any criticism aimed at the government.
They were wrong in this instance, for a start they ignored for almost a week the info they were being given from various local sources, including Mayor Andy Burnham who has a reputation for being absolutely on top of things in GM, re the rapidly increasing infection rate in areas , particularly Trafford,, that didn't happen overnight. Boris and co should have listened and not carried on insisting the lockdown would be lifted.
I don't blame Boris for everything, I have said many times I think he has led the government splendidly since this virus began.
I dread to think how it would have gone if Corbyn had been PM, and Starmer seems to be eager to criticise freely too without actually saying much himself.
The Tories have got plenty of things right in this Pandemic and have also made a load of very public balls ups - much like any other party would have I expect.
I certainly give them more credit than I usually do and have never voted for them in my life.
I would never have supported Corbyn's version of Labour so I went Green as a protest vote.
JP said
Sep 3 7:44 PM, 2020
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
It's not a matter of passing the buck. If the government ignores local councils when they request umpteen times for the lockdown not to be lifted in specific areas...and with very good reason, that is the fault of Tory central government....no one else.
I know you support them, and though I would never vote for them I have said from the start they have done a good job in unheard of circumstances, but the fact is that lives of ordinary people who live in the areas I have mentioned have been made a lot more difficult than need be by the way central government have ignored local government facts and figures....then at the 12th hour done a complete U-turn.
Blimey JP, even Boris admits he makes mistakes in judgments sometimes....why cant you?
What mistakes am I to admit here?
I'm only saying how I see events.
Why do you think some areas of the Country have had far higher infection rates throughout than others?
Its too easy to Blame Boris and CO for everything.
You cant seem to think logically about any criticism aimed at the government.
They were wrong in this instance, for a start they ignored for almost a week the info they were being given from various local sources, including Mayor Andy Burnham who has a reputation for being absolutely on top of things in GM, re the rapidly increasing infection rate in areas , particularly Trafford,, that didn't happen overnight. Boris and co should have listened and not carried on insisting the lockdown would be lifted.
I don't blame Boris for everything, I have said many times I think he has led the government splendidly since this virus began.
I dread to think how it would have gone if Corbyn had been PM, and Starmer seems to be eager to criticise freely too without actually saying much himself.
Ok that's your view. Fair enough.
Andy Burnham, yes he's perfect then. That seems to be your opinion? Now you appear to be behaving in the same way as you claim I'm behaving towards Boris and CO.
You haven't answered the question though about different areas of the Country being continually worse than other areas throughout the entire pandemic. Mostly up North. With the exception of London. Why has it turned out that way? Any ideas.
-- Edited by JP on Thursday 3rd of September 2020 07:45:18 PM
JP said
Sep 3 8:16 PM, 2020
And by the way what does Andy Burnham have to say about house parties and illegal raves in the area?
There's been a lot, going by what I've read.
Find me someone in authority who's come down hard verbally against, house parties, illegal raves. And I'll praise them no matter what their political persuasion is.
JP said
Sep 3 10:24 PM, 2020
A lot of great points in this video imo. Haven't often agreed with Carol. lol But she is making some good points here. They castigate the Government, The Scottish Government, and some Scientists. In my view Neil Ferguson in particular has a lot to answer for. Taken at face value the deaths here and across the World certainly do give a false impression. I don't believe all those people died directly of covid. Many, many, did not.
I'm leaning towards the kind of thinking these guys in below the link are expressing.
They don't mention "hoaxs" in this video. But it is interesting how many people are screaming "hoax" now about covid19. There was even an NHS Nurse just the other day saying something very similar.
-- Edited by JP on Thursday 3rd of September 2020 10:25:59 PM
How do they know more. They get any figures that they have from the central Governments scientists.
A few days ago they announced things would be lifted at midnight last night. The figures had improved. Things at that time a few days ago met the criteria set by the Government and their experts. A spike of infection occurred rapidly over the last few days though. The numbers rose. Things had to change and the lifting of restrictions could then not occur. That's how I've read the situation.
I don't think its difficult to understand how this could happen. Figures can change again in the matter of days.
Like I said there's recently been a food factory outbreak here, one minute we were sailing along with infection rates as long as anyone in the entire Country. But now out of the blue things changed and the situation is looking a fair bit more precarious.
Its absolute rubbish and political point scoring imo if anyone compares unprecedented pandemic U-turns with any other U-turns. These aren't your normal U-turn. Its obvious.
Getting another Brexit extension beyond the end of the year that would be a "proper" U-turn. Doing something that goes against a major promise in a manifesto that's a U-turn.
I don't know if your news is like ours. Scaremongering to extremes. Very pessimistic. Making things sound far worse than they actually are. And not reporting anything even just a bit positive. It pisses me off. News coverage quality and media standards have dropped a lot over the years.
I've just watched almost the whole half an hour of a daily news bulletin on one our main TV stations no mention of the hydrocortisone discovery as far as I heard.
-- Edited by JP on Wednesday 2nd of September 2020 07:17:16 PM
I dont know the latest figures, but I do know that according to Andy Burnham and local counsellors from Bolton and Trafford who were on the BBC news mid morning, that the lockdown was set to be lifted today even though the infection rates are amongst the highest in the country and increasing.
They said the central government had not responded to their requests to keep the lockdown in place, which is why they had advised the people who live in the worst affected areas to ignore government advice.
How do they know more? because they live here, they see and hear what's going on, Bolton especially is now on red alert and has the highest infection rate in greater Manchester and greater Manchester is still one of the worst hit places in the UK.
Edit....
https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/02/bolton-trafford-to-stay-local-lockdown-u-turn-forced-rising-infection-rates-13212471/
-- Edited by Syl on Wednesday 2nd of September 2020 07:20:09 PM
Who's infection rate figures do they view?
PHE?
Locally sourced, local experts?
I just added a link.
Well the main thing I get from that is at the start U-turn forced by "rising infection rates".
I call that doing the right thing. Like I said clearly things can change fast when it comes to infection rates.
So even a few days back Andy and others said it shouldn't be lifted anyway. That's another debate that one, does the Government and their experts need to adopt an even stricter criteria. I don't know.
It all comes back to this fine balance between potentially saving lives thing and getting the economy going an giving people a bit of their normal life back.
I see Trump had tweeted more conspiracy supporting bullshit before it was deleted - the man is just pure scum.
https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-comorbidities.html
-- Edited by John Doe on Wednesday 2nd of September 2020 10:34:45 PM
Yes, it's much the same here. I think the idea is to keep people fearful to error on the side of caution. The problem with that is, after a while of that, people don't see all of the terrible events that were threatened, and they just stop listening. We already have a fairly shitty view of the press and government.
Most people I know are wearing masks indoors in public areas, staying 6 feet away from strangers when they can, especially indoors, and going on about their business.
Other than that, I'm doing restaurants, having beers on patios or in a some of the bars/breweries that are open, and using common sense.
Also, I know a handful of nurses on the front lines. There was a short time about a month or so ago where they were getting a little worried about the trajectory. Now they are out doing there stuff, living life, and not real worried.
I get nervous when they get nervous. They aren't really worried about it right now.
Is Madrid leading Spain and Europe into a Covid second wave?
Madrid’s health system coming 'under severe strain' as cases grow and Europe looks on
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/02/madrid-leading-spain-europe-covid-second-wave/
For fuck's sake, man. Log in so your links work
I have just listened to a radio prog about this JP.
I was right when I said central government had not responded for days, almost a week, to local government advice to them not to lift the lockdown in two areas.
In GM the infection rates for some boroughs are the highest in the country, especially Trafford, figures have been rising alarmingly over the last week, government did not respond to any of the local councils warnings, and only on the day the lockdown was to be lifted did they do an about turn.
No one is expecting them to be mind readers, but had they looked at the rising figures they wouldn't have to be.
There have been some really heartbreaking stories, especially from people who have loved ones in care homes, where they were told restricted visits would be possible from yesterday, only to learn on the day that they wont.
Yes. But its easy to go down a blame game route.
Arguments could be made that local authorities in the worst affected areas haven't all along... Been doing a very good job at getting local messages over. May be some places would have done better if those in charge locally had been able to get the messages through to some of the locals better and local communities better.
It's easy to pass the buck.
-- Edited by JP on Thursday 3rd of September 2020 04:05:43 PM
I know you support them, and though I would never vote for them I have said from the start they have done a good job in unheard of circumstances, but the fact is that lives of ordinary people who live in the areas I have mentioned have been made a lot more difficult than need be by the way central government have ignored local government facts and figures....then at the 12th hour done a complete U-turn.
Blimey JP, even Boris admits he makes mistakes in judgments sometimes....why cant you?
What mistakes am I to admit here?
I'm only saying how I see events.
Why do you think some areas of the Country have had far higher infection rates throughout than others?
Its too easy to Blame Boris and CO for everything.
You cant seem to think logically about any criticism aimed at the government.
They were wrong in this instance, for a start they ignored for almost a week the info they were being given from various local sources, including Mayor Andy Burnham who has a reputation for being absolutely on top of things in GM, re the rapidly increasing infection rate in areas , particularly Trafford,, that didn't happen overnight. Boris and co should have listened and not carried on insisting the lockdown would be lifted.
I don't blame Boris for everything, I have said many times I think he has led the government splendidly since this virus began.
I dread to think how it would have gone if Corbyn had been PM, and Starmer seems to be eager to criticise freely too without actually saying much himself.
The Tories have got plenty of things right in this Pandemic and have also made a load of very public balls ups - much like any other party would have I expect.
I certainly give them more credit than I usually do and have never voted for them in my life.
I would never have supported Corbyn's version of Labour so I went Green as a protest vote.
Ok that's your view. Fair enough.
Andy Burnham, yes he's perfect then. That seems to be your opinion? Now you appear to be behaving in the same way as you claim I'm behaving towards Boris and CO.
You haven't answered the question though about different areas of the Country being continually worse than other areas throughout the entire pandemic. Mostly up North. With the exception of London. Why has it turned out that way? Any ideas.
-- Edited by JP on Thursday 3rd of September 2020 07:45:18 PM
There's been a lot, going by what I've read.
Find me someone in authority who's come down hard verbally against, house parties, illegal raves. And I'll praise them no matter what their political persuasion is.
A lot of great points in this video imo. Haven't often agreed with Carol. lol But she is making some good points here. They castigate the Government, The Scottish Government, and some Scientists. In my view Neil Ferguson in particular has a lot to answer for. Taken at face value the deaths here and across the World certainly do give a false impression. I don't believe all those people died directly of covid. Many, many, did not.
I'm leaning towards the kind of thinking these guys in below the link are expressing.
www.youtube.com/watch
They don't mention "hoaxs" in this video. But it is interesting how many people are screaming "hoax" now about covid19. There was even an NHS Nurse just the other day saying something very similar.
-- Edited by JP on Thursday 3rd of September 2020 10:25:59 PM