A lot of great points in this video imo. Haven't often agreed with Carol. lol But she is making some good points here. They castigate the Government, The Scottish Government, and some Scientists. In my view Neil Ferguson in particular has a lot to answer for. Taken at face value the deaths here and across the World certainly do give a false impression. I don't believe all those people died directly of covid. Many, many, did not.
I'm leaning towards the kind of thinking these guys in below the link are expressing.
They don't mention "hoaxs" in this video. But it is interesting how many people are screaming "hoax" now about covid19. There was even an NHS Nurse just the other day saying something very similar.
-- Edited by JP on Thursday 3rd of September 2020 10:25:59 PM
I don't think it's a hoax by any means, but it really seems to have affected folks who were already in bad shape. Did this virus add one more problem that finally overwhelmed their body? In many cases I'm sure it did. But in others, I think folks died "with" covid, not "from" covid.
John Doe said
Sep 3 11:53 PM, 2020
I believe the scientists and WHO personally, the conspiracy theorists (like Trump) can tweet/video dangerous misinformation all they like.
In any case the UK death rate is broadly in line with other major European nations (although higher per capita than anywhere apart from Spain and Belgium).
The US, Mexico, Brazil and India are still taking the brunt (and India's figures of a 1000 fatalities a day will actually be far higher of course).
Syl said
Sep 3 11:56 PM, 2020
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
You cant seem to think logically about any criticism aimed at the government.
They were wrong in this instance, for a start they ignored for almost a week the info they were being given from various local sources, including Mayor Andy Burnham who has a reputation for being absolutely on top of things in GM, re the rapidly increasing infection rate in areas , particularly Trafford,, that didn't happen overnight. Boris and co should have listened and not carried on insisting the lockdown would be lifted.
I don't blame Boris for everything, I have said many times I think he has led the government splendidly since this virus began.
I dread to think how it would have gone if Corbyn had been PM, and Starmer seems to be eager to criticise freely too without actually saying much himself.
Ok that's your view. Fair enough.
Andy Burnham, yes he's perfect then. That seems to be your opinion? Now you appear to be behaving in the same way as you claim I'm behaving towards Boris and CO.
You haven't answered the question though about different areas of the Country being continually worse than other areas throughout the entire pandemic. Mostly up North. With the exception of London. Why has it turned out that way? Any ideas.
-- Edited by JP on Thursday 3rd of September 2020 07:45:18 PM
Andy Burnham makes mistakes and he admits to them, on the points we are discussing here he is dead right.
Why are some areas worse than others re the spread of infection? Various reasons.
High population of asians seems to be a recurring factor.
Social distancing not being adhered to, we had a rave locally, two or three weeks later the infection figures soared.
Experts are also saying that increases in some parts seem to now be stemming from the home rather than outside the home.
JP said
Sep 4 3:53 PM, 2020
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
You cant seem to think logically about any criticism aimed at the government.
They were wrong in this instance, for a start they ignored for almost a week the info they were being given from various local sources, including Mayor Andy Burnham who has a reputation for being absolutely on top of things in GM, re the rapidly increasing infection rate in areas , particularly Trafford,, that didn't happen overnight. Boris and co should have listened and not carried on insisting the lockdown would be lifted.
I don't blame Boris for everything, I have said many times I think he has led the government splendidly since this virus began.
I dread to think how it would have gone if Corbyn had been PM, and Starmer seems to be eager to criticise freely too without actually saying much himself.
Ok that's your view. Fair enough.
Andy Burnham, yes he's perfect then. That seems to be your opinion? Now you appear to be behaving in the same way as you claim I'm behaving towards Boris and CO.
You haven't answered the question though about different areas of the Country being continually worse than other areas throughout the entire pandemic. Mostly up North. With the exception of London. Why has it turned out that way? Any ideas.
-- Edited by JP on Thursday 3rd of September 2020 07:45:18 PM
Andy Burnham makes mistakes and he admits to them, on the points we are discussing here he is dead right.
Why are some areas worse than others re the spread of infection? Various reasons.
High population of asians seems to be a recurring factor.
Social distancing not being adhered to, we had a rave locally, two or three weeks later the infection figures soared.
Experts are also saying that increases in some parts seem to now be stemming from the home rather than outside the home.
Mistakes? What mistakes has he admitted to?
When something is obviously your fault of course anyone really has to admit to those. If I put a picture up on the wall and it fell off shortly afterwards that'll be my fault. As for the Government versus local Government/people in authority. They both have a set figures and criteria's that they THINK is the correct way to go. Its not an exact science. I've read that some people in charge think what the local infection rates are is the single most important factor when it comes to judging if any action should be taken or not. Others say that Hospital admissions is the number 1 single most important factor.
Asians? Does Andy talk about this issue publicly?
-- Edited by JP on Friday 4th of September 2020 03:55:05 PM
JP said
Sep 4 4:01 PM, 2020
Maddog wrote:
JP wrote:
A lot of great points in this video imo. Haven't often agreed with Carol. lol But she is making some good points here. They castigate the Government, The Scottish Government, and some Scientists. In my view Neil Ferguson in particular has a lot to answer for. Taken at face value the deaths here and across the World certainly do give a false impression. I don't believe all those people died directly of covid. Many, many, did not.
I'm leaning towards the kind of thinking these guys in below the link are expressing.
They don't mention "hoaxs" in this video. But it is interesting how many people are screaming "hoax" now about covid19. There was even an NHS Nurse just the other day saying something very similar.
-- Edited by JP on Thursday 3rd of September 2020 10:25:59 PM
I don't think it's a hoax by any means, but it really seems to have affected folks who were already in bad shape. Did this virus add one more problem that finally overwhelmed their body? In many cases I'm sure it did. But in others, I think folks died "with" covid, not "from" covid.
Yeah. The hoax talk is just silly.
I definitely go along with what is being said by Carol and that guy though. They made some good points.
JP said
Sep 4 4:06 PM, 2020
John Doe wrote:
I believe the scientists and WHO personally, the conspiracy theorists (like Trump) can tweet/video dangerous misinformation all they like.
In any case the UK death rate is broadly in line with other major European nations (although higher per capita than anywhere apart from Spain and Belgium).
The US, Mexico, Brazil and India are still taking the brunt (and India's figures of a 1000 fatalities a day will actually be far higher of course).
Died with. Or died of. Covid mentioned on death certificate just in case it was factor. Versus. Covid being the primary cause of death. All very different things.
And death figures still aren't all that accurate. For various reason. Some Countries not including any care home deaths being one of those.
Syl said
Sep 4 4:12 PM, 2020
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Ok that's your view. Fair enough.
Andy Burnham, yes he's perfect then. That seems to be your opinion? Now you appear to be behaving in the same way as you claim I'm behaving towards Boris and CO.
You haven't answered the question though about different areas of the Country being continually worse than other areas throughout the entire pandemic. Mostly up North. With the exception of London. Why has it turned out that way? Any ideas.
-- Edited by JP on Thursday 3rd of September 2020 07:45:18 PM
Andy Burnham makes mistakes and he admits to them, on the points we are discussing here he is dead right.
Why are some areas worse than others re the spread of infection? Various reasons.
High population of asians seems to be a recurring factor.
Social distancing not being adhered to, we had a rave locally, two or three weeks later the infection figures soared.
Experts are also saying that increases in some parts seem to now be stemming from the home rather than outside the home.
Mistakes? What mistakes has he admitted to?
When something is obviously your fault of course anyone really has to admit to those. If I put a picture up on the wall and it fell off shortly afterwards that'll be my fault. As for the Government versus local Government/people in authority. They both have a set figures and criteria's that they THINK is the correct way to go. Its not an exact science. I've read that some people in charge think what the local infection rates are is the single most important factor when it comes to judging if any action should be taken or not. Others say that Hospital admissions is the number 1 single most important factor.
Asians? Does Andy talk about this issue publicly?
-- Edited by JP on Friday 4th of September 2020 03:55:05 PM
If he makes a mistake he admits to it.
He broadcasts regularly, in the 'Hot seat' as it's called, on GMR answering questions and sometimes criticisms from the public, he is a lot more upfront than many politicians.
I don't know whether he has talked of Asian areas being amongst the highest infection rates in the country, he has certainly addressed the fact, as have many politicians , that the Asian/black population have a higher than average infection rate.
JP said
Sep 4 4:22 PM, 2020
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Ok that's your view. Fair enough.
Andy Burnham, yes he's perfect then. That seems to be your opinion? Now you appear to be behaving in the same way as you claim I'm behaving towards Boris and CO.
You haven't answered the question though about different areas of the Country being continually worse than other areas throughout the entire pandemic. Mostly up North. With the exception of London. Why has it turned out that way? Any ideas.
-- Edited by JP on Thursday 3rd of September 2020 07:45:18 PM
Andy Burnham makes mistakes and he admits to them, on the points we are discussing here he is dead right.
Why are some areas worse than others re the spread of infection? Various reasons.
High population of asians seems to be a recurring factor.
Social distancing not being adhered to, we had a rave locally, two or three weeks later the infection figures soared.
Experts are also saying that increases in some parts seem to now be stemming from the home rather than outside the home.
Mistakes? What mistakes has he admitted to?
When something is obviously your fault of course anyone really has to admit to those. If I put a picture up on the wall and it fell off shortly afterwards that'll be my fault. As for the Government versus local Government/people in authority. They both have a set figures and criteria's that they THINK is the correct way to go. Its not an exact science. I've read that some people in charge think what the local infection rates are is the single most important factor when it comes to judging if any action should be taken or not. Others say that Hospital admissions is the number 1 single most important factor.
Asians? Does Andy talk about this issue publicly?
-- Edited by JP on Friday 4th of September 2020 03:55:05 PM
If he makes a mistake he admits to it.
He broadcasts regularly, in the 'Hot seat' as it's called, on GMR answering questions and sometimes criticisms from the public, he is a lot more upfront than many politicians.
I don't know whether he has talked of Asian areas being amongst the highest infection rates in the country, he has certainly addressed the fact, as have many politicians , that the Asian/black population have a higher than average infection rate.
Hes a mayor though. Not quite the same as being a Politician. MP. Boris had better/different personality as Mayor. Its obviously a different kind of gig. People who get the PM job or are high up such as a high profile minister. Feel they have to hold back and change their personality somewhat. I don't think they should. I think the team is too big around these people. Too many people chipping in whispering in high profile Politicians ears not a good thing imo.
Syl said
Sep 4 4:25 PM, 2020
I agree Boris seems a lot more subdued as PM as he did as Mayor, mind you I wonder if he has ever fully recovered from the virus ...he was definitely desperately ill when he contracted it and he hasn't seemed the same since.
JP said
Sep 4 4:35 PM, 2020
Syl wrote:
I agree Boris seems a lot more subdued as PM as he did as Mayor, mind you I wonder if he has ever fully recovered from the virus ...he was definitely desperately ill when he contracted it and he hasn't seemed the same since.
Sure, I think covid does still come into it. On the occasional day over the last few weeks or so I have seen him sound more himself. Its not consistent though.
I don't know if you saw the Rule Britania thing when he chipped in about that. He was more himself there. Interesting how he said they didn't want me to say that. Boris needs to say what he wants. People voted for him he is the PM. I want to hear his personal views not what others have told him to say.
Like I said I believe teams are too big around high profile Politicians now. I'm not sure about years ago but I have a feeling leaders didn't have so many people whispering into their ears back then.
It kinda reflects society. You know how it is some workplaces have multiple managers/general managers. Manger for this manger for that! Not good in my view.
Syl said
Sep 4 4:47 PM, 2020
It's confusing, take Covid, there have been so many 'experts' who contradict one another. The government who obviously listen to various scientists and 'experts' have also contradicted themselves ...giving advice on what to do and what not to do...then doing a complete about turn days or weeks later.
Wearing/not wearing of the face mask in public is the most obvious one.
JP said
Sep 4 5:00 PM, 2020
Syl wrote:
It's confusing, take Covid, there have been so many 'experts' who contradict one another. The government who obviously listen to various scientists and 'experts' have also contradicted themselves ...giving advice on what to do and what not to do...then doing a complete about turn days or weeks later.
Wearing/not wearing of the face mask in public is the most obvious one.
No one really knows what's best. I honestly believe its almost down to just pot luck.
Take Spian and France right now nearly 9,000 new cases yesterday in Spain. And 7,500 in France. I'm sure overall the behaviour of the people is much the same as the people here. And I'm sure the authorities are doing broadly the same kinds of things. Yet for now we are at around 1,500. This virus is so unpredictable! That is obvious. It can go very wrong really quite quickly it seems. Nailing down reasons is one thing and at times they may be obvious, but combating them is a different ball game however.
-- Edited by JP on Friday 4th of September 2020 05:01:00 PM
-- Edited by JP on Friday 4th of September 2020 05:01:42 PM
-- Edited by JP on Friday 4th of September 2020 05:10:49 PM
Syl said
Sep 4 6:02 PM, 2020
Probably if people followed the social distancing, handwashing rules the virus wouldn't be still spreading like it is, but I don't think half the population are bothering.
All we can do is use common sense to try to protect ourselves and the people we come into contact with, because like you say, even 6 months down the line this virus is still unpredictable.
JP said
Sep 4 10:35 PM, 2020
Syl wrote:
Probably if people followed the social distancing, handwashing rules the virus wouldn't be still spreading like it is, but I don't think half the population are bothering.
All we can do is use common sense to try to protect ourselves and the people we come into contact with, because like you say, even 6 months down the line this virus is still unpredictable.
Unfortunately it's gonna be even more difficult to contain if what some experts claim is correct. The fact that there is an even more contagious mutation of covid around, but on the plus side overall it's less deadly.
Vicks said
Sep 5 8:29 AM, 2020
Scotland's game on Monday against the Czech Republic has been called off after a Covid-19 outbreak amongst the home squad.
However reading the rules it appears the Czech's are pulling a fast one and for some reason are deliberately avoiding Scotland.
I demand a full investigation.
Syl said
Sep 5 11:50 AM, 2020
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
Probably if people followed the social distancing, handwashing rules the virus wouldn't be still spreading like it is, but I don't think half the population are bothering.
All we can do is use common sense to try to protect ourselves and the people we come into contact with, because like you say, even 6 months down the line this virus is still unpredictable.
Unfortunately it's gonna be even more difficult to contain if what some experts claim is correct. The fact that there is an even more contagious mutation of covid around, but on the plus side overall it's less deadly.
Till a safe vaccine is found, I think that's the best case scenario.
The more people who get it the better the chances of immunity, though it's not been definitely proved yet that one is immune or for how long once a person has been infected, but signs are good.
If it's mutated to a less deadly strain hopefully the most vulnerable wont be as badly hit.
Vicks said
Sep 5 3:18 PM, 2020
Vicks wrote:
Scotland's game on Monday against the Czech Republic has been called off after a Covid-19 outbreak amongst the home squad.
However reading the rules it appears the Czech's are pulling a fast one and for some reason are deliberately avoiding Scotland.
I demand a full investigation.
As I suspected, the Czech Republic were up to something and they've been told the game will go ahead as planned.
Well the virus is certainly getting a lot of help from these idiots and those like them all over the world.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54042003
Edit - my links are still not working. :(
-- Edited by John Doe on Saturday 5th of September 2020 10:07:14 PM
Anonymous said
Sep 6 7:33 AM, 2020
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
You cant seem to think logically about any criticism aimed at the government.
They were wrong in this instance, for a start they ignored for almost a week the info they were being given from various local sources, including Mayor Andy Burnham who has a reputation for being absolutely on top of things in GM, re the rapidly increasing infection rate in areas , particularly Trafford,, that didn't happen overnight. Boris and co should have listened and not carried on insisting the lockdown would be lifted.
I don't blame Boris for everything, I have said many times I think he has led the government splendidly since this virus began.
I dread to think how it would have gone if Corbyn had been PM, and Starmer seems to be eager to criticise freely too without actually saying much himself.
Ok that's your view. Fair enough.
Andy Burnham, yes he's perfect then. That seems to be your opinion? Now you appear to be behaving in the same way as you claim I'm behaving towards Boris and CO.
You haven't answered the question though about different areas of the Country being continually worse than other areas throughout the entire pandemic. Mostly up North. With the exception of London. Why has it turned out that way? Any ideas.
-- Edited by JP on Thursday 3rd of September 2020 07:45:18 PM
Andy Burnham makes mistakes and he admits to them, on the points we are discussing here he is dead right.
Why are some areas worse than others re the spread of infection? Various reasons.
High population of asians seems to be a recurring factor.
Social distancing not being adhered to, we had a rave locally, two or three weeks later the infection figures soared.
Experts are also saying that increases in some parts seem to now be stemming from the home rather than outside the home.
Pubs are bars are rammed, especially at weekends. They think it’s all over.
Syl said
Sep 6 12:01 PM, 2020
Bolton is the latest place to spike, it's now the highest in the country re infection rates.
The overwhelming majority catching and spreading the virus there are people aged between 18 to 49.
I don't think it's a hoax by any means, but it really seems to have affected folks who were already in bad shape. Did this virus add one more problem that finally overwhelmed their body? In many cases I'm sure it did. But in others, I think folks died "with" covid, not "from" covid.
I believe the scientists and WHO personally, the conspiracy theorists (like Trump) can tweet/video dangerous misinformation all they like.
In any case the UK death rate is broadly in line with other major European nations (although higher per capita than anywhere apart from Spain and Belgium).
The US, Mexico, Brazil and India are still taking the brunt (and India's figures of a 1000 fatalities a day will actually be far higher of course).
You cant seem to think logically about any criticism aimed at the government.
Andy Burnham makes mistakes and he admits to them, on the points we are discussing here he is dead right.
Why are some areas worse than others re the spread of infection? Various reasons.
High population of asians seems to be a recurring factor.
Social distancing not being adhered to, we had a rave locally, two or three weeks later the infection figures soared.
Experts are also saying that increases in some parts seem to now be stemming from the home rather than outside the home.
Mistakes? What mistakes has he admitted to?
When something is obviously your fault of course anyone really has to admit to those. If I put a picture up on the wall and it fell off shortly afterwards that'll be my fault. As for the Government versus local Government/people in authority. They both have a set figures and criteria's that they THINK is the correct way to go. Its not an exact science. I've read that some people in charge think what the local infection rates are is the single most important factor when it comes to judging if any action should be taken or not. Others say that Hospital admissions is the number 1 single most important factor.
Asians? Does Andy talk about this issue publicly?
-- Edited by JP on Friday 4th of September 2020 03:55:05 PM
Yeah. The hoax talk is just silly.
I definitely go along with what is being said by Carol and that guy though. They made some good points.
Died with. Or died of. Covid mentioned on death certificate just in case it was factor. Versus. Covid being the primary cause of death. All very different things.
And death figures still aren't all that accurate. For various reason. Some Countries not including any care home deaths being one of those.
Andy Burnham, yes he's perfect then. That seems to be your opinion? Now you appear to be behaving in the same way as you claim I'm behaving towards Boris and CO.
You haven't answered the question though about different areas of the Country being continually worse than other areas throughout the entire pandemic. Mostly up North. With the exception of London. Why has it turned out that way? Any ideas.
-- Edited by JP on Thursday 3rd of September 2020 07:45:18 PM
If he makes a mistake he admits to it.
He broadcasts regularly, in the 'Hot seat' as it's called, on GMR answering questions and sometimes criticisms from the public, he is a lot more upfront than many politicians.
I don't know whether he has talked of Asian areas being amongst the highest infection rates in the country, he has certainly addressed the fact, as have many politicians , that the Asian/black population have a higher than average infection rate.
Hes a mayor though. Not quite the same as being a Politician. MP. Boris had better/different personality as Mayor. Its obviously a different kind of gig. People who get the PM job or are high up such as a high profile minister. Feel they have to hold back and change their personality somewhat. I don't think they should. I think the team is too big around these people. Too many people chipping in whispering in high profile Politicians ears not a good thing imo.
Sure, I think covid does still come into it. On the occasional day over the last few weeks or so I have seen him sound more himself. Its not consistent though.
I don't know if you saw the Rule Britania thing when he chipped in about that. He was more himself there. Interesting how he said they didn't want me to say that. Boris needs to say what he wants. People voted for him he is the PM. I want to hear his personal views not what others have told him to say.
Like I said I believe teams are too big around high profile Politicians now. I'm not sure about years ago but I have a feeling leaders didn't have so many people whispering into their ears back then.
It kinda reflects society. You know how it is some workplaces have multiple managers/general managers. Manger for this manger for that! Not good in my view.
Wearing/not wearing of the face mask in public is the most obvious one.
No one really knows what's best. I honestly believe its almost down to just pot luck.
Take Spian and France right now nearly 9,000 new cases yesterday in Spain. And 7,500 in France. I'm sure overall the behaviour of the people is much the same as the people here. And I'm sure the authorities are doing broadly the same kinds of things. Yet for now we are at around 1,500. This virus is so unpredictable! That is obvious. It can go very wrong really quite quickly it seems. Nailing down reasons is one thing and at times they may be obvious, but combating them is a different ball game however.
-- Edited by JP on Friday 4th of September 2020 05:01:00 PM
-- Edited by JP on Friday 4th of September 2020 05:01:42 PM
-- Edited by JP on Friday 4th of September 2020 05:10:49 PM
All we can do is use common sense to try to protect ourselves and the people we come into contact with, because like you say, even 6 months down the line this virus is still unpredictable.
Unfortunately it's gonna be even more difficult to contain if what some experts claim is correct. The fact that there is an even more contagious mutation of covid around, but on the plus side overall it's less deadly.
Scotland's game on Monday against the Czech Republic has been called off after a Covid-19 outbreak amongst the home squad.
However reading the rules it appears the Czech's are pulling a fast one and for some reason are deliberately avoiding Scotland.
I demand a full investigation.
Till a safe vaccine is found, I think that's the best case scenario.
The more people who get it the better the chances of immunity, though it's not been definitely proved yet that one is immune or for how long once a person has been infected, but signs are good.
If it's mutated to a less deadly strain hopefully the most vulnerable wont be as badly hit.
As I suspected, the Czech Republic were up to something and they've been told the game will go ahead as planned.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54036595?intlink_from_url=&link_location=live-reporting-story&ocid=uxbndlbing
Well the virus is certainly getting a lot of help from these idiots and those like them all over the world.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54042003
Edit - my links are still not working. :(
-- Edited by John Doe on Saturday 5th of September 2020 10:07:14 PM
Pubs are bars are rammed, especially at weekends. They think it’s all over.
The overwhelming majority catching and spreading the virus there are people aged between 18 to 49.