If it can't even deter someone who has already been sent back once, I'm not sure it will have much affect on the illegals trying it for the first time.
There was a human rights woman on the news earlier - facial piercings and oversized nerd glasses - making excuses for him.
Apparently, his life in France since being sent back has become 'horrendous', and he just wants to 'feel safe' by coming to the UK.
They are reading from a script that they have got off to a T. They know it works with our wanky woke authorities, so wheel it out every time.
It's all made up codswallop. They come here for the easy life, benefits etc. All paid by us!
I'm so very sick of Starmer, I don't think he's got any intentions of stopping the invaders.
We can't have another 3 years of him, we as a country will cease to exist!
Khan must answer for knowing about the London abuse gangs and covering up, bloody muslims again!
Mags,he CAN'T stop them and nor could any other Prime Minister if their party was governing. It's got nothing to do with being "wank or wokey" , it's the LAW. Since Brexit, we are not allowed to return immigrants. That's why they keep coming here in droves from France ,because France CAN send them back.
Red has always ignored me (except to call me a halfwit or a predator on rare occasions) as if the facts of the situation are a personal affront to him and that's just fine with me. But you and I got on well when I joined so I hope you don't chose to ignore me also just because I am speaking the truth.
I agree this particular asylum seeker does sound like a chancer. If he wanted to remain free from persecution he would remain in France, people genuinely fleeing for their life would be so relieved. But the reason asylum seekers are coming here in droves from France is that due to Brexit, the international law dictates we have to house them whilst their application is being processed. France are under no such obligation.
Starmer is a wet lettuce in many regards but no PM would be able to act any differently to him at this time . Farage and Gove told the concerned public Brexit would lower immigration levels but concealed the Dublin Convention from those who didn't know. Nigel Farage knew that if the UK voted to leave the EU we would be under a legal obligation to house illegal immigrants ergo he KNEW immigration levels would rise. Blatant lies to the public. That's is why I personally don't trust him. That and the fact he still owes the NHS 2 million pound's. Can you imagine if Starmer or Reeves had pledged to pay 2 million to the NHS and then just refused to pay it?? There would be a national outcry! But since Murdoch owns the majority of the Western media Farage 's treachery has been hushed up, no one must mention it so the public forget.
I went off on a tangent there a tad (!) But I just wanted to explain why it is logically unjust and inaccurate to blame Starmer for the rise in small boats. It would be the same no matter who was PM as the increase is a direct result of the change in law since Brexit.
However, I do agree with your last statement Mags. The attempt to cover up the ethnicity of grooming gangs has to stop. By trying to cover it up the Government are actively increasing bigotry because when white men are guilty of these crimes the Government has no problems revealing their ethnicity and the double standard is absurd.
Maybe they fear more racist assaults or riots but I would argue by trying to conceal the groomers ethnicity they are actually increasing the risk of retaliation.And since Starmer stated the Government would be transparent on this issue inevitably the public will trust them even less than they do already. Starmer is handling the optics of the grooming gangs woefully and for no possible justification.
-- Edited by Fluffy on Thursday 23rd of October 2025 09:48:19 AM
Hi Fluffs,I
Today I read France has reneged on their agreement to stop the dinghys leaving France, in the same token what stops returning them and dumping them there.
They all say we can't do it, well I would, just leave them there.
I'm sick of more and more men arriving here just for all the benefits. We make it too easy and they're all young fighting men.
I really feel there's an agenda here. Conservatives were as bad, bloody ridiculous this is.
Good Evening Mags Hope you're well.
There is indeed an agenda but it happened before Starmer was voted in. The elite who provide our media like Murdoch are attempting to manipulate the electorate to vote against their best interests. It seems some people can never have enough yachts.
But I totally understand your frustrations regarding all these anonymous men abusing the Brexit loophole and coming here to live in droves. There is far too many immigrants now and we are only a small island. We don't have the room, the facilities, or the money to house them all even the genuine asylum seekers. But we give far less benefits than many countries including France, ironically.
I didn't know that about France abandoning their deal with us Mags and I'm very surprised at that. The one in one out deal was so hopeless it helped France more than us! Sadly as we left the EU France is not strictly speaking our ally and is not obliged to help us any more than strictly necessary. I shall Google that to see what's going on
-- Edited by Fluffy on Thursday 23rd of October 2025 08:18:06 PM
Maddog said
Oct 23 8:51 PM, 2025
Fluffy wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Syl wrote:
It is all wrong, but like has been said, the laws we have at present work against us. They should have been changed when the immigrants first started coming here illegally in boats....which didn't really happen till 2014/15, and in small numbers. Nothing was done, a couple of years later it was getting to be a well worn path...and look at it now.
I think we will be paying France around£500 million over a three year period to stop the crossings, but as their police don't enter the water to stop boardings and departures...as usual, Britain are the mugs.
Whilst it may well be true that all politicians lie, the same politician that lied by omission to the British public about Brexit is likely to be out next Prime Minister. Why trust him again? His rabble of a party are united by one common passion, getting rid of immigrants, all of them even the legal ones propping up the NHS who have been living here for many years.
Immigrants are not coming here for benefits, we give far less in benefits than many countries as I have stated in my above post. They are coming here ,quite patently , because they know we legally have to house and feed them due to leaving the EU.. It doesn't really make sense to go anywhere else.
Sadly we made ourselves the mugs Syl. It's considered a joke that we left the world's largest most relevant single market , making trade so much harder and more expensive..The way Trump ignored Starmer recently was proof of our irrelevance as a country due to our dire economy. Britain used to be fairly prosperous, and a force to be reckoned with. Due to Brexit we are a joke and we cannot legally stop immigrants from living here.
The next step is to amend the ECHR which is certainly outdated. Yvette Cooper of Labour said they intend to amend it so the UK can finally return immigrants to their country of origin but without leaving the ECHR all together as obviously we need the other rights to stay in.place to protect jobs ,sick pay etc. Essentially it protects our basic freedoms and only Russia had no use for it. (Putin not wanting human rights for his own people. The very idea)
So why is millionaire Farage (who coincidently has expressed his admiration for Putin) not advocating the same? Why does he intend that Britain be just like Russia and allow British people lose all their freedoms and basic rights by leaving the ECHR entirely? We don't have to leave, just amend it so we are able to deal with our immigration problem and align more with the EU because the UK economy needs Europe. That much has been made clear.
If people actively vote for such a travesty I can envisage the catastrophic result and countries may forgive our ignorance once but not leaving the ECHR in its entirety too. That will sever any chance of trade with most countries as they won't be protected. It's farcical like the old adage says "Turkey's voting for Christmas" . Yet the western media positively encourages this madness as the rich and elite own the media and don't want it's workers protected. Because all they care about is profit.
Your problem is your government, not Brexit.
Balls. (Lol, sorry !) Although I am curious if you could elaborate how they are doing worse than the previous government.
I agree Labour could have done far better by not trying to appease right wing voters and sticking to grass roots Labour. But the Tories destroyed the economy to the tune of 20 million pounds with their austerity measures for those on lower incomes and tax breaks for the rich. I suppose they weren't the problem? Farage will do exactly the same.
To be in government with our finances in their current state is a poisoned chalice. I'm sure the Tories are relieved to be in opposition. Short of asking to returning to the EU I don't know how any governing party could begin to repair our beyond deprived NHS and public sector. The Tories abandoned funding for schools,all social and essential services, housing..and their austerity programme inevitably led to businesses closing as so many families were on the poverty line and had no disposable income.
The Tories destroyed the economy yet Labour sceptics expect Starmer to fix all that mess in one year. That is irrational. It will take a whole government term, at best. Labour do return two planes full of Immigrants by cover of darkness each week and have introduced other beneficial legislation that the media doesn't let the electorate know about. I am not satisfied with their performance thus far and as it stands, wouldn't vote for them, but I shall post some Labour policies that they have introduced silently for the less well off that are doing rather well.
As for leaving the EU, statistics bares out that Brexit worsened our illegal immigration problem Madders.
Breaking up with an abusive partner doesn't fix the problems with you..
Red Okktober said
Oct 24 10:51 AM, 2025
Labour hammered in the Caerphilly by-election
The seat had been a Labour stronghold for over 100 years, one of their safest, but they came in a distant third, picking up just a humiliating 11% of the vote
Plaid Cymru came first, and Reform second.
Syl said
Oct 24 12:21 PM, 2025
Fluffy, you don't have to convince me Reform would be bad for the country, I know.
They have one agenda...get rid of immigrants, and they keep saying that (and not much else) because they know immigration is a huge problem here.
What we need is a PM with knowledge AND bollocks...at the moment we have a wishy washy man who looks like a deer caught in the headlights, doffing his cap at the big boys (ie Trump and Co) he is a bloody disgrace.
Brexit has made it more difficult to send illegals back, but not impossible, though it has limited our powers, but like has been said, laws can be changed, and though it's complex, it can be done.
What is making it a damn sight worse is the pathetic negotiating we are have done, by both Cons and Labour, SINCE Brexit.
Digger said
Oct 24 3:49 PM, 2025
Magica wrote:
Digger wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Mags,he CAN'T stop them and nor could any other Prime Minister if their party was governing. It's got nothing to do with being "wank or wokey" , it's the LAW. Since Brexit, we are not allowed to return immigrants. That's why they keep coming here in droves from France ,because France CAN send them back.
Red has always ignored me (except to call me a halfwit or a predator on rare occasions) as if the facts of the situation are a personal affront to him and that's just fine with me. But you and I got on well when I joined so I hope you don't chose to ignore me also just because I am speaking the truth.
I agree this particular asylum seeker does sound like a chancer. If he wanted to remain free from persecution he would remain in France, people genuinely fleeing for their life would be so relieved. But the reason asylum seekers are coming here in droves from France is that due to Brexit, the international law dictates we have to house them whilst their application is being processed. France are under no such obligation.
Starmer is a wet lettuce in many regards but no PM would be able to act any differently to him at this time . Farage and Gove told the concerned public Brexit would lower immigration levels but concealed the Dublin Convention from those who didn't know. Nigel Farage knew that if the UK voted to leave the EU we would be under a legal obligation to house illegal immigrants ergo he KNEW immigration levels would rise. Blatant lies to the public. That's is why I personally don't trust him. That and the fact he still owes the NHS 2 million pound's. Can you imagine if Starmer or Reeves had pledged to pay 2 million to the NHS and then just refused to pay it?? There would be a national outcry! But since Murdoch owns the majority of the Western media Farage 's treachery has been hushed up, no one must mention it so the public forget.
I went off on a tangent there a tad (!) But I just wanted to explain why it is logically unjust and inaccurate to blame Starmer for the rise in small boats. It would be the same no matter who was PM as the increase is a direct result of the change in law since Brexit.
However, I do agree with your last statement Mags. The attempt to cover up the ethnicity of grooming gangs has to stop. By trying to cover it up the Government are actively increasing bigotry because when white men are guilty of these crimes the Government has no problems revealing their ethnicity and the double standard is absurd.
Maybe they fear more racist assaults or riots but I would argue by trying to conceal the groomers ethnicity they are actually increasing the risk of retaliation.And since Starmer stated the Government would be transparent on this issue inevitably the public will trust them even less than they do already. Starmer is handling the optics of the grooming gangs woefully and for no possible justification.
-- Edited by Fluffy on Thursday 23rd of October 2025 09:48:19 AM
. Can you imagine if Starmer or Reeves had pledged to pay 2 million to the NHS and then just refused to pay it?? There would be a national outcry!
Promises by politicians are notoriously broken. And things change that make those promises no longer feasible. That's par for the course. The WASPI women were promised a pension at 60 and that never came. Each one of us lost £50K because of that. I remember Labour under Jeremy Corbin promising to give that back. It never transpired.
So true Digs. I lost out by 5 months as my birthday was September they changed it in the April. . Had to wait til nearly 65, yet paid in since 15. So damn wrong.
yep, me too. I'm early October. I left school at 15 and worked ever since. I had 45 working years behind me when I finally got my pension. I never had any notification, never got any warning that they were changing things. I was lucky because I also have a good private pension but it financially crippled some women.
Digger said
Oct 24 3:58 PM, 2025
Fluffy wrote:
Regarding BIB, that flies in the face of Occam 's Razor, where the simplest explanation for something is usually the most accurate. I respectfully disagree with you Digs. When it comes to immigration, levels have soared since Brexit because immigrants know that unlike other countries who can send them.back to their country of origin the UK has to house them under international law whilst processing their application. That is simple cause and effect. Hence why before Brexit immigration levels were far lower.
Legal immigration rocketed too especially under the Tories as British people were not filling the many available vacancies in the NHS, caring profession or menial jobs such as cleaners. So the Tories had no choice but to pay for legal migrants to fill these positions. Immigrants will generally work for less money and British companies don't want to pay higher wages than they have to.
However we are far from the most generous country when it comes to benefits.
A list of social welfare spending as a percentage of GDP was compiled by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development ("OECD") ,putting countries from first to last .Countries with the highest levels of spending are more likely to be considered welfare states.
We were last but one on the list, America was last.
More significantly still
Countries that provide more generous unemployment benefits than the UK include Belgium, Luxembourg, Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Switzerland, Sweden, France, Germany, Finland, Austria, and Ireland. Inthese countries, the support for unemployed individuals is significantly higher compared to the UK's benefits system. leftfootforward.org migrationwatchuk.org
So frankly, the UK being generous in benefits for those who do not work is a total myth.
It may have been true many years ago but sixteen years of austerity measures under Tory rule have left the billionaires much richer but the poor far poorer still. Immigrants are unable to work in this country until their application has been approved so they would receive far less in monetary benefits here than in most EU countries including France. It's in the best interests of genuine asylum seekers to stay in France.
Those most likely not to be sincere asylum seekers, i.e single men without dependants or documentation are coming here as Brexit dictates we must feed and house them for quite a long time. The statistics are quite transparent in showing it. It is not the fault of Brexit voters, they were conned by Farage and co who were in possession of the facts when the electorate was not.
immigration was on the rise before Brexit. Net migration reached a record high of 335,000 in the year leading up to the referendum, with a peak inflow of 284,000 EU citizens. This rise was largely due to EU enlargement, economic factors, and the UK's attractiveness for work, and it played a significant role in the Eurosceptic sentiment that led to the referendum.
When the UK clamped down on illegals coming through the tunnel, they then went down the boat route. This made huge amounts of money for the traffickers. The rest is history.
Digger said
Oct 24 4:16 PM, 2025
Fluffy wrote:
Syl wrote:
It is all wrong, but like has been said, the laws we have at present work against us. They should have been changed when the immigrants first started coming here illegally in boats....which didn't really happen till 2014/15, and in small numbers. Nothing was done, a couple of years later it was getting to be a well worn path...and look at it now.
I think we will be paying France around£500 million over a three year period to stop the crossings, but as their police don't enter the water to stop boardings and departures...as usual, Britain are the mugs.
Whilst it may well be true that all politicians lie, the same politician that lied by omission to the British public about Brexit is likely to be out next Prime Minister. Why trust him again? His rabble of a party are united by one common passion, getting rid of immigrants, all of them even the legal ones propping up the NHS who have been living here for many years.
Immigrants are not coming here for benefits, we give far less in benefits than many countries as I have stated in my above post. They are coming here ,quite patently , because they know we legally have to house and feed them due to leaving the EU.. It doesn't really make sense to go anywhere else.
Sadly we made ourselves the mugs Syl. It's considered a joke that we left the world's largest most relevant single market , making trade so much harder and more expensive..The way Trump ignored Starmer recently was proof of our irrelevance as a country due to our dire economy. Britain used to be fairly prosperous, and a force to be reckoned with. Due to Brexit we are a joke and we cannot legally stop immigrants from living here.
The next step is to amend the ECHR which is certainly outdated. Yvette Cooper of Labour said they intend to amend it so the UK can finally return immigrants to their country of origin but without leaving the ECHR all together as obviously we need the other rights to stay in.place to protect jobs ,sick pay etc. Essentially it protects our basic freedoms and only Russia had no use for it. (Putin not wanting human rights for his own people. The very idea)
So why is millionaire Farage (who coincidently has expressed his admiration for Putin) not advocating the same? Why does he intend that Britain be just like Russia and allow British people lose all their freedoms and basic rights by leaving the ECHR entirely? We don't have to leave, just amend it so we are able to deal with our immigration problem and align more with the EU because the UK economy needs Europe. That much has been made clear.
If people actively vote for such a travesty I can envisage the catastrophic result and countries may forgive our ignorance once but not leaving the ECHR in its entirety too. That will sever any chance of trade with most countries as they won't be protected. It's farcical like the old adage says "Turkey's voting for Christmas" . Yet the western media positively encourages this madness as the rich and elite own the media and don't want it's workers protected. Because all they care about is profit.
1.9 million immigrants claim benefits in the UK. When you consider there are 10 million immigrants in the UK, that's a lot. Because many of them has not paid into the system. Then you have the ones in low paid jobs who don't pay taxes but still reap the benefits from those who do.
Digger said
Oct 24 4:45 PM, 2025
Fluffy wrote:
Red Okktober wrote:
Syl wrote:
It is all wrong, but like has been said, the laws we have at present work against us.
Which is why Reform will introduce new laws - ones that work in our favour. The existing laws are not set in stone, and as with any law, are subject to change.
Starmer is not inclined to change things that go against his beliefs, and it wasn't that long ago as a human rights lawyer that he was the one making excuses for illegals so that they could stay here. Which is why he is completely useless in his role as PM in defending our borders. It's like having a pacifist running the country during a time of war.
Farage will kick start leaving the ECHR and stripping illegals of their 'human rights' before he has even unpacked his suitcase in number 10.
All this nonsense about fleeing from danger and not being safe in France has to stop. Remember that old case about the Bolivian man who avoided deportation? Part of his defence to stay here was that he co-owned a cat, which apparently help prove he was 'settled' here and entitled to a family life. How often do we hear about serious offenders who re-offend, who were allowed to stay here due to outrageously flimsy reasons? This is the type of stuff that Farage will bring to an end, and while he is pretty much certain to be the next PM.
As Digger says, we need to get tough like the Aussies did. And we need to get on with it now, and stop passively looking on while our country goes down the toilet.
I don't expect you to deign to reply although I never conversed with you prior to here but leaving the ECHR will strip you and everyone else of their rights aswell as immigrants. Yet you don't seem to consider this.
It makes far more logical sense to amend the outdated laws regarding immigrants but remain in the ECHR as Yvette Cooper suggested . Otherwise you can forget free healthcare as the NHS will be nothing but a distant memory. We will become just like America, you may be wealthy enough to afford costly medical bills but not everyone is in such a privileged position.
The ECHR protects our right to a basic minimum wage, the right to sick pay, maternity pay, a healthy workplace environment,most basic financial freedom's. First we vote for Brexit now you intend to vote away our freedom as Putin did since he could not conform to the ECHR. Because he didn't want the Russian people to have so many rights!
If people who do not vote Reform are forced to leave the ECHR against our will and the economy dips to make the rich more wealthy(as it will) and the cost of living worsens I'm sorry but I agree that those who voted to be worse off financially should have that reflected in their tax code. Enough is enough.
You brought the economy to a screeching halt with Brexit due to your immigration concerns and we all just fell in line. If you vote away our universal rights and freedoms(can't you hear how that sounds ffs!) firstly you are unbelievably short sighted if you believe Farage won't use that to the advantage of big business and millionaires like himself and secondly you will not have ignorance as an excuse as you once did. Not all of us are so eager to be in a union of two with Russia. Isolating ourselves as a country is not the answer to our economic woes. You can't keep going the wrong way and dragging the rest of society with you ffs. Admit your mistakes and turn around.
Amend the ECHR laws regarding immigrants as Labour intend to by all means but leaving the ECHR in its entirety will surely be a death knell for this country in too many ways to contemplate.
you speak as though the NHS is free. it's not. it never has been. It's only free to those who don't pay into the system. The rest of us have to pay for those who don't.
Singapore and Japan have the best health systems in the world. Why?
Because Singapore has a system that combines mandatory savings accounts (MediSave), government subsidies, and public health campaigns.
Japan's healthy system is supported by a health-conscious culture. It also has culinary education to teach people about healthy eating habits from a young age.
Maddog said
Oct 24 6:03 PM, 2025
Digger wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Red Okktober wrote:
Syl wrote:
It is all wrong, but like has been said, the laws we have at present work against us.
Which is why Reform will introduce new laws - ones that work in our favour. The existing laws are not set in stone, and as with any law, are subject to change.
Starmer is not inclined to change things that go against his beliefs, and it wasn't that long ago as a human rights lawyer that he was the one making excuses for illegals so that they could stay here. Which is why he is completely useless in his role as PM in defending our borders. It's like having a pacifist running the country during a time of war.
Farage will kick start leaving the ECHR and stripping illegals of their 'human rights' before he has even unpacked his suitcase in number 10.
All this nonsense about fleeing from danger and not being safe in France has to stop. Remember that old case about the Bolivian man who avoided deportation? Part of his defence to stay here was that he co-owned a cat, which apparently help prove he was 'settled' here and entitled to a family life. How often do we hear about serious offenders who re-offend, who were allowed to stay here due to outrageously flimsy reasons? This is the type of stuff that Farage will bring to an end, and while he is pretty much certain to be the next PM.
As Digger says, we need to get tough like the Aussies did. And we need to get on with it now, and stop passively looking on while our country goes down the toilet.
I don't expect you to deign to reply although I never conversed with you prior to here but leaving the ECHR will strip you and everyone else of their rights aswell as immigrants. Yet you don't seem to consider this.
It makes far more logical sense to amend the outdated laws regarding immigrants but remain in the ECHR as Yvette Cooper suggested . Otherwise you can forget free healthcare as the NHS will be nothing but a distant memory. We will become just like America, you may be wealthy enough to afford costly medical bills but not everyone is in such a privileged position.
The ECHR protects our right to a basic minimum wage, the right to sick pay, maternity pay, a healthy workplace environment,most basic financial freedom's. First we vote for Brexit now you intend to vote away our freedom as Putin did since he could not conform to the ECHR. Because he didn't want the Russian people to have so many rights!
If people who do not vote Reform are forced to leave the ECHR against our will and the economy dips to make the rich more wealthy(as it will) and the cost of living worsens I'm sorry but I agree that those who voted to be worse off financially should have that reflected in their tax code. Enough is enough.
You brought the economy to a screeching halt with Brexit due to your immigration concerns and we all just fell in line. If you vote away our universal rights and freedoms(can't you hear how that sounds ffs!) firstly you are unbelievably short sighted if you believe Farage won't use that to the advantage of big business and millionaires like himself and secondly you will not have ignorance as an excuse as you once did. Not all of us are so eager to be in a union of two with Russia. Isolating ourselves as a country is not the answer to our economic woes. You can't keep going the wrong way and dragging the rest of society with you ffs. Admit your mistakes and turn around.
Amend the ECHR laws regarding immigrants as Labour intend to by all means but leaving the ECHR in its entirety will surely be a death knell for this country in too many ways to contemplate.
you speak as though the NHS is free. it's not. it never has been. It's only free to those who don't pay into the system. The rest of us have to pay for those who don't.
Singapore and Japan have the best health systems in the world. Why?
Because Singapore has a system that combines mandatory savings accounts (MediSave), government subsidies, and public health campaigns.
Japan's healthy system is supported by a health-conscious culture. It also has culinary education to teach people about healthy eating habits from a young age.
Health outcomes are often cultural. That's why life expectancy is a poor method for judging healthcare. Or at least judging medical care.
Maddog said
Oct 24 6:06 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Fluffy, you don't have to convince me Reform would be bad for the country, I know. They have one agenda...get rid of immigrants, and they keep saying that (and not much else) because they know immigration is a huge problem here. What we need is a PM with knowledge AND bollocks...at the moment we have a wishy washy man who looks like a deer caught in the headlights, doffing his cap at the big boys (ie Trump and Co) he is a bloody disgrace.
Brexit has made it more difficult to send illegals back, but not impossible, though it has limited our powers, but like has been said, laws can be changed, and though it's complex, it can be done. What is making it a damn sight worse is the pathetic negotiating we are have done, by both Cons and Labour, SINCE Brexit.
My point about Brexit.
It wasn't the breakup that was the problem but what was done after the breakup..
Churchill would have handled it differently..😉
Fluffy said
Oct 24 6:18 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Fluffy, you don't have to convince me Reform would be bad for the country, I know. They have one agenda...get rid of immigrants, and they keep saying that (and not much else) because they know immigration is a huge problem here. What we need is a PM with knowledge AND bollocks...at the moment we have a wishy washy man who looks like a deer caught in the headlights, doffing his cap at the big boys (ie Trump and Co) he is a bloody disgrace.
Brexit has made it more difficult to send illegals back, but not impossible, though it has limited our powers, but like has been said, laws can be changed, and though it's complex, it can be done. What is making it a damn sight worse is the pathetic negotiating we are have done, by both Cons and Labour, SINCE Brexit.
Sorry Syl I did go on a bit! It's just so surreal, the public trusting Farage to fix the mistake he encouraged the country to make!
I do agree laws can be amended but I just hope people do find their common sense and just amend the ECHR to remove illegal immigrants and not vote to have our human rights to be removed aswell..I dread to think what would happen to the UK then. I should imagine many people with the funds to do so would leave.
Maddog said
Oct 24 6:19 PM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Red Okktober wrote:
Syl wrote:
It is all wrong, but like has been said, the laws we have at present work against us.
Which is why Reform will introduce new laws - ones that work in our favour. The existing laws are not set in stone, and as with any law, are subject to change.
Starmer is not inclined to change things that go against his beliefs, and it wasn't that long ago as a human rights lawyer that he was the one making excuses for illegals so that they could stay here. Which is why he is completely useless in his role as PM in defending our borders. It's like having a pacifist running the country during a time of war.
Farage will kick start leaving the ECHR and stripping illegals of their 'human rights' before he has even unpacked his suitcase in number 10.
All this nonsense about fleeing from danger and not being safe in France has to stop. Remember that old case about the Bolivian man who avoided deportation? Part of his defence to stay here was that he co-owned a cat, which apparently help prove he was 'settled' here and entitled to a family life. How often do we hear about serious offenders who re-offend, who were allowed to stay here due to outrageously flimsy reasons? This is the type of stuff that Farage will bring to an end, and while he is pretty much certain to be the next PM.
As Digger says, we need to get tough like the Aussies did. And we need to get on with it now, and stop passively looking on while our country goes down the toilet.
I don't expect you to deign to reply although I never conversed with you prior to here but leaving the ECHR will strip you and everyone else of their rights aswell as immigrants. Yet you don't seem to consider this.
It makes far more logical sense to amend the outdated laws regarding immigrants but remain in the ECHR as Yvette Cooper suggested . Otherwise you can forget free healthcare as the NHS will be nothing but a distant memory. We will become just like America, you may be wealthy enough to afford costly medical bills but not everyone is in such a privileged position.
The ECHR protects our right to a basic minimum wage, the right to sick pay, maternity pay, a healthy workplace environment,most basic financial freedom's. First we vote for Brexit now you intend to vote away our freedom as Putin did since he could not conform to the ECHR. Because he didn't want the Russian people to have so many rights!
If people who do not vote Reform are forced to leave the ECHR against our will and the economy dips to make the rich more wealthy(as it will) and the cost of living worsens I'm sorry but I agree that those who voted to be worse off financially should have that reflected in their tax code. Enough is enough.
You brought the economy to a screeching halt with Brexit due to your immigration concerns and we all just fell in line. If you vote away our universal rights and freedoms(can't you hear how that sounds ffs!) firstly you are unbelievably short sighted if you believe Farage won't use that to the advantage of big business and millionaires like himself and secondly you will not have ignorance as an excuse as you once did. Not all of us are so eager to be in a union of two with Russia. Isolating ourselves as a country is not the answer to our economic woes. You can't keep going the wrong way and dragging the rest of society with you ffs. Admit your mistakes and turn around.
Amend the ECHR laws regarding immigrants as Labour intend to by all means but leaving the ECHR in its entirety will surely be a death knell for this country in too many ways to contemplate.
you speak as though the NHS is free. it's not. it never has been. It's only free to those who don't pay into the system. The rest of us have to pay for those who don't.
Singapore and Japan have the best health systems in the world. Why?
Because Singapore has a system that combines mandatory savings accounts (MediSave), government subsidies, and public health campaigns.
Japan's healthy system is supported by a health-conscious culture. It also has culinary education to teach people about healthy eating habits from a young age.
Health outcomes are often cultural. That's why life expectancy is a poor method for judging healthcare. Or at least judging medical care.
I just did some quick checking.
African Americans have a life expectancy of 73 years..
Asian Americans is 85 years..
Same system, different cultures..
Fluffy said
Oct 24 6:20 PM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Fluffy, you don't have to convince me Reform would be bad for the country, I know. They have one agenda...get rid of immigrants, and they keep saying that (and not much else) because they know immigration is a huge problem here. What we need is a PM with knowledge AND bollocks...at the moment we have a wishy washy man who looks like a deer caught in the headlights, doffing his cap at the big boys (ie Trump and Co) he is a bloody disgrace.
Brexit has made it more difficult to send illegals back, but not impossible, though it has limited our powers, but like has been said, laws can be changed, and though it's complex, it can be done. What is making it a damn sight worse is the pathetic negotiating we are have done, by both Cons and Labour, SINCE Brexit.
My point about Brexit.
It wasn't the breakup that was the problem but what was done after the breakup..
Churchill would have handled it differently..😉
You're wrong Madders. Tell me one thing that Brexit improved for British people.
Maddog said
Oct 24 6:21 PM, 2025
Fluffy wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Fluffy, you don't have to convince me Reform would be bad for the country, I know. They have one agenda...get rid of immigrants, and they keep saying that (and not much else) because they know immigration is a huge problem here. What we need is a PM with knowledge AND bollocks...at the moment we have a wishy washy man who looks like a deer caught in the headlights, doffing his cap at the big boys (ie Trump and Co) he is a bloody disgrace.
Brexit has made it more difficult to send illegals back, but not impossible, though it has limited our powers, but like has been said, laws can be changed, and though it's complex, it can be done. What is making it a damn sight worse is the pathetic negotiating we are have done, by both Cons and Labour, SINCE Brexit.
My point about Brexit.
It wasn't the breakup that was the problem but what was done after the breakup..
Churchill would have handled it differently..😉
You're wrong Madders. Tell me one thing that Brexit improved for British people.
You're not reading what I'm saying.
Until you do, there's no point typing more..
Fluffy said
Oct 24 6:43 PM, 2025
Digger wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Red Okktober wrote:
Syl wrote:
It is all wrong, but like has been said, the laws we have at present work against us.
Which is why Reform will introduce new laws - ones that work in our favour. The existing laws are not set in stone, and as with any law, are subject to change.
Starmer is not inclined to change things that go against his beliefs, and it wasn't that long ago as a human rights lawyer that he was the one making excuses for illegals so that they could stay here. Which is why he is completely useless in his role as PM in defending our borders. It's like having a pacifist running the country during a time of war.
Farage will kick start leaving the ECHR and stripping illegals of their 'human rights' before he has even unpacked his suitcase in number 10.
All this nonsense about fleeing from danger and not being safe in France has to stop. Remember that old case about the Bolivian man who avoided deportation? Part of his defence to stay here was that he co-owned a cat, which apparently help prove he was 'settled' here and entitled to a family life. How often do we hear about serious offenders who re-offend, who were allowed to stay here due to outrageously flimsy reasons? This is the type of stuff that Farage will bring to an end, and while he is pretty much certain to be the next PM.
As Digger says, we need to get tough like the Aussies did. And we need to get on with it now, and stop passively looking on while our country goes down the toilet.
I don't expect you to deign to reply although I never conversed with you prior to here but leaving the ECHR will strip you and everyone else of their rights aswell as immigrants. Yet you don't seem to consider this.
It makes far more logical sense to amend the outdated laws regarding immigrants but remain in the ECHR as Yvette Cooper suggested . Otherwise you can forget free healthcare as the NHS will be nothing but a distant memory. We will become just like America, you may be wealthy enough to afford costly medical bills but not everyone is in such a privileged position.
The ECHR protects our right to a basic minimum wage, the right to sick pay, maternity pay, a healthy workplace environment,most basic financial freedom's. First we vote for Brexit now you intend to vote away our freedom as Putin did since he could not conform to the ECHR. Because he didn't want the Russian people to have so many rights!
If people who do not vote Reform are forced to leave the ECHR against our will and the economy dips to make the rich more wealthy(as it will) and the cost of living worsens I'm sorry but I agree that those who voted to be worse off financially should have that reflected in their tax code. Enough is enough.
You brought the economy to a screeching halt with Brexit due to your immigration concerns and we all just fell in line. If you vote away our universal rights and freedoms(can't you hear how that sounds ffs!) firstly you are unbelievably short sighted if you believe Farage won't use that to the advantage of big business and millionaires like himself and secondly you will not have ignorance as an excuse as you once did. Not all of us are so eager to be in a union of two with Russia. Isolating ourselves as a country is not the answer to our economic woes. You can't keep going the wrong way and dragging the rest of society with you ffs. Admit your mistakes and turn around.
Amend the ECHR laws regarding immigrants as Labour intend to by all means but leaving the ECHR in its entirety will surely be a death knell for this country in too many ways to contemplate.
you speak as though the NHS is free. it's not. it never has been. It's only free to those who don't pay into the system. The rest of us have to pay for those who don't.
Singapore and Japan have the best health systems in the world. Why?
Because Singapore has a system that combines mandatory savings accounts (MediSave), government subsidies, and public health campaigns.
Japan's healthy system is supported by a health-conscious culture. It also has culinary education to teach people about healthy eating habits from a young age.
Digs, people do not pay for life saving operations, medical treatment or doctors appointments on the NHS. That makes it free. Tbh I think most people view the NHS as free. It used to be the envy of the world before the Tories refused to pay doctors or provide it with any funding. Labour,Plaid, The Greens, and the Lib Dems would ensure the NHS remains free. Right wing parties can't profit from the NHS so they want to privatise it meaning costly medical treatment which many people can ill afford.
In Wales we also have our prescriptions free, I'm not sure if that extends to England and Scotland but I hope so.
Japan is in a terrible mess right now ,especially the economy. The youth are crumbling under the immense academic pressure put on them by their parents and many are not working. Big corporations that used to look after their workers for life with wage increases and promotions are forcing loyal workers into voluntary redundancy due to the declining economic structure.
Japan is such a weird and wonderful place though,I would love to visit one day.
Fluffy said
Oct 24 7:00 PM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Fluffy, you don't have to convince me Reform would be bad for the country, I know. They have one agenda...get rid of immigrants, and they keep saying that (and not much else) because they know immigration is a huge problem here. What we need is a PM with knowledge AND bollocks...at the moment we have a wishy washy man who looks like a deer caught in the headlights, doffing his cap at the big boys (ie Trump and Co) he is a bloody disgrace.
Brexit has made it more difficult to send illegals back, but not impossible, though it has limited our powers, but like has been said, laws can be changed, and though it's complex, it can be done. What is making it a damn sight worse is the pathetic negotiating we are have done, by both Cons and Labour, SINCE Brexit.
My point about Brexit.
It wasn't the breakup that was the problem but what was done after the breakup..
Churchill would have handled it differently..😉
You're wrong Madders. Tell me one thing that Brexit improved for British people.
You're not reading what I'm saying.
Until you do, there's no point typing more..
Nah, you just can't answer the question. The majority who originally opted to leave the EU would not vote for Brexit now with the gift of hindsight. So I suppose all those British electorates are also in error ?
I read what you are saying. That Brexit isn't the problem regarding the small boats crisis, Labour is. I don't agree with it . The Tories introduced Brexit (with Farage and Gove as the figureheads) and immigration spiralled out of control way before Starmer got involved. The Tories spent millions sending illegal immigrants to Rwanda..where those millions went is anyone's guess because not a single plane left for Rwanda. millions squandered for nothing. I realised I have been typing that the Tories left a 20 million pound mess for the next government to clean up, obviously it's 20 billion.
But I don't expect you to be informed about our politics from across the pond Madders. In fairness you have enough to worry about!
Maddog said
Oct 24 7:02 PM, 2025
Fluffy wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Fluffy, you don't have to convince me Reform would be bad for the country, I know. They have one agenda...get rid of immigrants, and they keep saying that (and not much else) because they know immigration is a huge problem here. What we need is a PM with knowledge AND bollocks...at the moment we have a wishy washy man who looks like a deer caught in the headlights, doffing his cap at the big boys (ie Trump and Co) he is a bloody disgrace.
Brexit has made it more difficult to send illegals back, but not impossible, though it has limited our powers, but like has been said, laws can be changed, and though it's complex, it can be done. What is making it a damn sight worse is the pathetic negotiating we are have done, by both Cons and Labour, SINCE Brexit.
My point about Brexit.
It wasn't the breakup that was the problem but what was done after the breakup..
Churchill would have handled it differently..😉
You're wrong Madders. Tell me one thing that Brexit improved for British people.
You're not reading what I'm saying.
Until you do, there's no point typing more..
Nah, you just can't answer the question. The majority who originally opted to leave the EU would not vote for Brexit now with the gift of hindsight. So I suppose all those British electorates are also in error ?
I read what you are saying. That Brexit isn't the problem regarding the small boats crisis, Labour is. I don't agree with it . The Tories introduced Brexit (with Farage and Gove as the figureheads) and immigration spiralled out of control way before Starmer got involved. The Tories spent millions sending illegal immigrants to Rwanda..where those millions went is anyone's guess because not a single plane left for Rwanda. millions squandered for nothing. I realised I have been typing that the Tories left a 20 million pound mess for the next government to clean up, obviously it's 20 billion.
But I don't expect you to be informed about our politics from across the pond Madders. In fairness you have enough to worry about!
You just described government malfeasance.
My point exactly.
Syl said
Oct 24 7:03 PM, 2025
The NHS is funded by working people who pay tax and national insurance, which means the people who don't work, get it for free.
Prescriptions cost the same people who work £9.90 an item....but only 10% of people pay. The other 90% are subsidised in part by the ones who pay.
Maddog said
Oct 24 7:05 PM, 2025
Fluffy wrote:
Digger wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Red Okktober wrote:
Syl wrote:
It is all wrong, but like has been said, the laws we have at present work against us.
Which is why Reform will introduce new laws - ones that work in our favour. The existing laws are not set in stone, and as with any law, are subject to change.
Starmer is not inclined to change things that go against his beliefs, and it wasn't that long ago as a human rights lawyer that he was the one making excuses for illegals so that they could stay here. Which is why he is completely useless in his role as PM in defending our borders. It's like having a pacifist running the country during a time of war.
Farage will kick start leaving the ECHR and stripping illegals of their 'human rights' before he has even unpacked his suitcase in number 10.
All this nonsense about fleeing from danger and not being safe in France has to stop. Remember that old case about the Bolivian man who avoided deportation? Part of his defence to stay here was that he co-owned a cat, which apparently help prove he was 'settled' here and entitled to a family life. How often do we hear about serious offenders who re-offend, who were allowed to stay here due to outrageously flimsy reasons? This is the type of stuff that Farage will bring to an end, and while he is pretty much certain to be the next PM.
As Digger says, we need to get tough like the Aussies did. And we need to get on with it now, and stop passively looking on while our country goes down the toilet.
I don't expect you to deign to reply although I never conversed with you prior to here but leaving the ECHR will strip you and everyone else of their rights aswell as immigrants. Yet you don't seem to consider this.
It makes far more logical sense to amend the outdated laws regarding immigrants but remain in the ECHR as Yvette Cooper suggested . Otherwise you can forget free healthcare as the NHS will be nothing but a distant memory. We will become just like America, you may be wealthy enough to afford costly medical bills but not everyone is in such a privileged position.
The ECHR protects our right to a basic minimum wage, the right to sick pay, maternity pay, a healthy workplace environment,most basic financial freedom's. First we vote for Brexit now you intend to vote away our freedom as Putin did since he could not conform to the ECHR. Because he didn't want the Russian people to have so many rights!
If people who do not vote Reform are forced to leave the ECHR against our will and the economy dips to make the rich more wealthy(as it will) and the cost of living worsens I'm sorry but I agree that those who voted to be worse off financially should have that reflected in their tax code. Enough is enough.
You brought the economy to a screeching halt with Brexit due to your immigration concerns and we all just fell in line. If you vote away our universal rights and freedoms(can't you hear how that sounds ffs!) firstly you are unbelievably short sighted if you believe Farage won't use that to the advantage of big business and millionaires like himself and secondly you will not have ignorance as an excuse as you once did. Not all of us are so eager to be in a union of two with Russia. Isolating ourselves as a country is not the answer to our economic woes. You can't keep going the wrong way and dragging the rest of society with you ffs. Admit your mistakes and turn around.
Amend the ECHR laws regarding immigrants as Labour intend to by all means but leaving the ECHR in its entirety will surely be a death knell for this country in too many ways to contemplate.
you speak as though the NHS is free. it's not. it never has been. It's only free to those who don't pay into the system. The rest of us have to pay for those who don't.
Singapore and Japan have the best health systems in the world. Why?
Because Singapore has a system that combines mandatory savings accounts (MediSave), government subsidies, and public health campaigns.
Japan's healthy system is supported by a health-conscious culture. It also has culinary education to teach people about healthy eating habits from a young age.
Digs, people do not pay for life saving operations, medical treatment or doctors appointments on the NHS. That makes it free. Tbh I think most people view the NHS as free. It used to be the envy of the world before the Tories refused to pay doctors or provide it with any funding. Labour,Plaid, The Greens, and the Lib Dems would ensure the NHS remains free. Right wing parties can't profit from the NHS so they want to privatise it meaning costly medical treatment which many people can ill afford.
In Wales we also have our prescriptions free, I'm not sure if that extends to England and Scotland but I hope so.
Japan is in a terrible mess right now ,especially the economy. The youth are crumbling under the immense academic pressure put on them by their parents and many are not working. Big corporations that used to look after their workers for life with wage increases and promotions are forcing loyal workers into voluntary redundancy due to the declining economic structure.
Japan is such a weird and wonderful place though,I would love to visit one day.
Japan has an unemployment rate of about 2.5%.
Their problem is their low birthrate. You can't grow an economy well with declining workers and increasing retired people..
Fluffy said
Oct 24 7:08 PM, 2025
Red Okktober wrote:
Labour hammered in the Caerphilly by-election
The seat had been a Labour stronghold for over 100 years, one of their safest, but they came in a distant third, picking up just a humiliating 11% of the vote
Plaid Cymru came first, and Reform second.
Yay! I voted for Plaid in the General Election! I can't believe it.. Thank Goodness they saw those parasites off.
It's hard to feel sorry for Labour. I do feel Starmer receives way too much flack when you consider the Tory travesty 's that were Liz Truss and Boris Johnson but that's a separate issue. I hope this is the first of many !
Good Evening Mags
Hope you're well.
There is indeed an agenda but it happened before Starmer was voted in. The elite who provide our media like Murdoch are attempting to manipulate the electorate to vote against their best interests. It seems some people can never have enough yachts.
But I totally understand your frustrations regarding all these anonymous men abusing the Brexit loophole and coming here to live in droves. There is far too many immigrants now and we are only a small island. We don't have the room, the facilities, or the money to house them all even the genuine asylum seekers. But we give far less benefits than many countries including France, ironically.
I didn't know that about France abandoning their deal with us Mags and I'm very surprised at that. The one in one out deal was so hopeless it helped France more than us!
Sadly as we left the EU France is not strictly speaking our ally and is not obliged to help us any more than strictly necessary. I shall Google that to see what's going on 
-- Edited by Fluffy on Thursday 23rd of October 2025 08:18:06 PM
Breaking up with an abusive partner doesn't fix the problems with you..
The seat had been a Labour stronghold for over 100 years, one of their safest, but they came in a distant third, picking up just a humiliating 11% of the vote
Plaid Cymru came first, and Reform second.
They have one agenda...get rid of immigrants, and they keep saying that (and not much else) because they know immigration is a huge problem here.
What we need is a PM with knowledge AND bollocks...at the moment we have a wishy washy man who looks like a deer caught in the headlights, doffing his cap at the big boys (ie Trump and Co) he is a bloody disgrace.
Brexit has made it more difficult to send illegals back, but not impossible, though it has limited our powers, but like has been said, laws can be changed, and though it's complex, it can be done.
What is making it a damn sight worse is the pathetic negotiating we are have done, by both Cons and Labour, SINCE Brexit.
yep, me too. I'm early October. I left school at 15 and worked ever since. I had 45 working years behind me when I finally got my pension. I never had any notification, never got any warning that they were changing things. I was lucky because I also have a good private pension but it financially crippled some women.
immigration was on the rise before Brexit. Net migration reached a record high of 335,000 in the year leading up to the referendum, with a peak inflow of 284,000 EU citizens. This rise was largely due to EU enlargement, economic factors, and the UK's attractiveness for work, and it played a significant role in the Eurosceptic sentiment that led to the referendum.
When the UK clamped down on illegals coming through the tunnel, they then went down the boat route. This made huge amounts of money for the traffickers. The rest is history.
1.9 million immigrants claim benefits in the UK. When you consider there are 10 million immigrants in the UK, that's a lot. Because many of them has not paid into the system. Then you have the ones in low paid jobs who don't pay taxes but still reap the benefits from those who do.
you speak as though the NHS is free. it's not. it never has been. It's only free to those who don't pay into the system. The rest of us have to pay for those who don't.
Singapore and Japan have the best health systems in the world. Why?
Because Singapore has a system that combines mandatory savings accounts (MediSave), government subsidies, and public health campaigns.
Japan's healthy system is supported by a health-conscious culture. It also has culinary education to teach people about healthy eating habits from a young age.
Health outcomes are often cultural. That's why life expectancy is a poor method for judging healthcare. Or at least judging medical care.
My point about Brexit.
It wasn't the breakup that was the problem but what was done after the breakup..
Churchill would have handled it differently..😉
Sorry Syl I did go on a bit!
It's just so surreal, the public trusting Farage to fix the mistake he encouraged the country to make!
I do agree laws can be amended but I just hope people do find their common sense and just amend the ECHR to remove illegal immigrants and not vote to have our human rights to be removed aswell..I dread to think what would happen to the UK then. I should imagine many people with the funds to do so would leave.
I just did some quick checking.
African Americans have a life expectancy of 73 years..
Asian Americans is 85 years..
Same system, different cultures..
You're wrong Madders. Tell me one thing that Brexit improved for British people.
You're not reading what I'm saying.
Until you do, there's no point typing more..
Digs, people do not pay for life saving operations, medical treatment or doctors appointments on the NHS. That makes it free. Tbh I think most people view the NHS as free. It used to be the envy of the world before the Tories refused to pay doctors or provide it with any funding. Labour,Plaid, The Greens, and the Lib Dems would ensure the NHS remains free. Right wing parties can't profit from the NHS so they want to privatise it meaning costly medical treatment which many people can ill afford.
In Wales we also have our prescriptions free, I'm not sure if that extends to England and Scotland but I hope so.
Japan is in a terrible mess right now ,especially the economy. The youth are crumbling under the immense academic pressure put on them by their parents and many are not working. Big corporations that used to look after their workers for life with wage increases and promotions are forcing loyal workers into voluntary redundancy due to the declining economic structure.
Japan is such a weird and wonderful place though,I would love to visit one day.
Nah, you just can't answer the question. The majority who originally opted to leave the EU would not vote for Brexit now with the gift of hindsight. So I suppose all those British electorates are also in error ?
I read what you are saying. That Brexit isn't the problem regarding the small boats crisis, Labour is. I don't agree with it . The Tories introduced Brexit (with Farage and Gove as the figureheads) and immigration spiralled out of control way before Starmer got involved. The Tories spent millions sending illegal immigrants to Rwanda..where those millions went is anyone's guess because not a single plane left for Rwanda. millions squandered for nothing. I realised I have been typing that the Tories left a 20 million pound mess for the next government to clean up, obviously it's 20 billion.
But I don't expect you to be informed about our politics from across the pond Madders. In fairness you have enough to worry about!
You just described government malfeasance.
My point exactly.
Prescriptions cost the same people who work £9.90 an item....but only 10% of people pay. The other 90% are subsidised in part by the ones who pay.
Japan has an unemployment rate of about 2.5%.
Their problem is their low birthrate. You can't grow an economy well with declining workers and increasing retired people..
Yay!
I voted for Plaid in the General Election! I can't believe it.. Thank Goodness they saw those parasites off.
It's hard to feel sorry for Labour. I do feel Starmer receives way too much flack when you consider the Tory travesty 's that were Liz Truss and Boris Johnson but that's a separate issue. I hope this is the first of many !