It is all wrong, but like has been said, the laws we have at present work against us.
Which is why Reform will introduce new laws - ones that work in our favour. The existing laws are not set in stone, and as with any law, are subject to change.
Starmer is not inclined to change things that go against his beliefs, and it wasn't that long ago as a human rights lawyer that he was the one making excuses for illegals so that they could stay here. Which is why he is completely useless in his role as PM in defending our borders. It's like having a pacifist running the country during a time of war.
Farage will kick start leaving the ECHR and stripping illegals of their 'human rights' before he has even unpacked his suitcase in number 10.
All this nonsense about fleeing from danger and not being safe in France has to stop. Remember that old case about the Bolivian man who avoided deportation? Part of his defence to stay here was that he co-owned a cat, which apparently help prove he was 'settled' here and entitled to a family life. How often do we hear about serious offenders who re-offend, who were allowed to stay here due to outrageously flimsy reasons? This is the type of stuff that Farage will bring to an end, and while he is pretty much certain to be the next PM.
As Digger says, we need to get tough like the Aussies did. And we need to get on with it now, and stop passively looking on while our country goes down the toilet.
I don't expect you to deign to reply although I never conversed with you prior to here but leaving the ECHR will strip you and everyone else of their rights aswell as immigrants. Yet you don't seem to consider this.
It makes far more logical sense to amend the outdated laws regarding immigrants but remain in the ECHR as Yvette Cooper suggested . Otherwise you can forget free healthcare as the NHS will be nothing but a distant memory. We will become just like America, you may be wealthy enough to afford costly medical bills but not everyone is in such a privileged position.
The ECHR protects our right to a basic minimum wage, the right to sick pay, maternity pay, a healthy workplace environment,most basic financial freedom's. First we vote for Brexit now you intend to vote away our freedom as Putin did since he could not conform to the ECHR. Because he didn't want the Russian people to have so many rights!
If people who do not vote Reform are forced to leave the ECHR against our will and the economy dips to make the rich more wealthy(as it will) and the cost of living worsens I'm sorry but I agree that those who voted to be worse off financially should have that reflected in their tax code. Enough is enough.
You brought the economy to a screeching halt with Brexit due to your immigration concerns and we all just fell in line. If you vote away our universal rights and freedoms(can't you hear how that sounds ffs!) firstly you are unbelievably short sighted if you believe Farage won't use that to the advantage of big business and millionaires like himself and secondly you will not have ignorance as an excuse as you once did. Not all of us are so eager to be in a union of two with Russia. Isolating ourselves as a country is not the answer to our economic woes. You can't keep going the wrong way and dragging the rest of society with you ffs. Admit your mistakes and turn around.
Amend the ECHR laws regarding immigrants as Labour intend to by all means but leaving the ECHR in its entirety will surely be a death knell for this country in too many ways to contemplate.
you speak as though the NHS is free. it's not. it never has been. It's only free to those who don't pay into the system. The rest of us have to pay for those who don't.
Singapore and Japan have the best health systems in the world. Why?
Because Singapore has a system that combines mandatory savings accounts (MediSave), government subsidies, and public health campaigns.
Japan's healthy system is supported by a health-conscious culture. It also has culinary education to teach people about healthy eating habits from a young age.
Digs, people do not pay for life saving operations, medical treatment or doctors appointments on the NHS. That makes it free. Tbh I think most people view the NHS as free. It used to be the envy of the world before the Tories refused to pay doctors or provide it with any funding. Labour,Plaid, The Greens, and the Lib Dems would ensure the NHS remains free. Right wing parties can't profit from the NHS so they want to privatise it meaning costly medical treatment which many people can ill afford.
In Wales we also have our prescriptions free, I'm not sure if that extends to England and Scotland but I hope so.
Japan is in a terrible mess right now ,especially the economy. The youth are crumbling under the immense academic pressure put on them by their parents and many are not working. Big corporations that used to look after their workers for life with wage increases and promotions are forcing loyal workers into voluntary redundancy due to the declining economic structure.
Japan is such a weird and wonderful place though,I would love to visit one day.
Japan has an unemployment rate of about 2.5%.
Their problem is their low birthrate. You can't grow an economy well with declining workers and increasing retired people..
That's because women are considered unworthy of marriage beyond 25. Japanese men would rather look at anime porn than be intimate with real women.But many young Japanese men.are also crumbling under the immense academic pressure from.their parents and simply staying indoors.
There is an actual word in Japanese to describe this young generation(mostly young men) that remain indoors and shut themselves off from the outside world, ordering food and scrolling social media.
I think social media is part of the reason for the disconnect between the sexes. Young men never directly speak to women in the real world..But also the old fashioned values have to.be dispensed with. Women have careers now and they don't have to be wed and have two children by age 23. Young people are fleeing Japan in droves ,and sadly suicide rates are at their highest amongst young men.
I saw an informative video on the decline of Japan recently. I know it's off topic but I think you will find it interesting so I will find it.
-- Edited by Fluffy on Friday 24th of October 2025 07:30:48 PM
Maddog said
Oct 24 7:29 PM, 2025
Fluffy wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Digger wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Red Okktober wrote:
Syl wrote:
It is all wrong, but like has been said, the laws we have at present work against us.
Which is why Reform will introduce new laws - ones that work in our favour. The existing laws are not set in stone, and as with any law, are subject to change.
Starmer is not inclined to change things that go against his beliefs, and it wasn't that long ago as a human rights lawyer that he was the one making excuses for illegals so that they could stay here. Which is why he is completely useless in his role as PM in defending our borders. It's like having a pacifist running the country during a time of war.
Farage will kick start leaving the ECHR and stripping illegals of their 'human rights' before he has even unpacked his suitcase in number 10.
All this nonsense about fleeing from danger and not being safe in France has to stop. Remember that old case about the Bolivian man who avoided deportation? Part of his defence to stay here was that he co-owned a cat, which apparently help prove he was 'settled' here and entitled to a family life. How often do we hear about serious offenders who re-offend, who were allowed to stay here due to outrageously flimsy reasons? This is the type of stuff that Farage will bring to an end, and while he is pretty much certain to be the next PM.
As Digger says, we need to get tough like the Aussies did. And we need to get on with it now, and stop passively looking on while our country goes down the toilet.
I don't expect you to deign to reply although I never conversed with you prior to here but leaving the ECHR will strip you and everyone else of their rights aswell as immigrants. Yet you don't seem to consider this.
It makes far more logical sense to amend the outdated laws regarding immigrants but remain in the ECHR as Yvette Cooper suggested . Otherwise you can forget free healthcare as the NHS will be nothing but a distant memory. We will become just like America, you may be wealthy enough to afford costly medical bills but not everyone is in such a privileged position.
The ECHR protects our right to a basic minimum wage, the right to sick pay, maternity pay, a healthy workplace environment,most basic financial freedom's. First we vote for Brexit now you intend to vote away our freedom as Putin did since he could not conform to the ECHR. Because he didn't want the Russian people to have so many rights!
If people who do not vote Reform are forced to leave the ECHR against our will and the economy dips to make the rich more wealthy(as it will) and the cost of living worsens I'm sorry but I agree that those who voted to be worse off financially should have that reflected in their tax code. Enough is enough.
You brought the economy to a screeching halt with Brexit due to your immigration concerns and we all just fell in line. If you vote away our universal rights and freedoms(can't you hear how that sounds ffs!) firstly you are unbelievably short sighted if you believe Farage won't use that to the advantage of big business and millionaires like himself and secondly you will not have ignorance as an excuse as you once did. Not all of us are so eager to be in a union of two with Russia. Isolating ourselves as a country is not the answer to our economic woes. You can't keep going the wrong way and dragging the rest of society with you ffs. Admit your mistakes and turn around.
Amend the ECHR laws regarding immigrants as Labour intend to by all means but leaving the ECHR in its entirety will surely be a death knell for this country in too many ways to contemplate.
you speak as though the NHS is free. it's not. it never has been. It's only free to those who don't pay into the system. The rest of us have to pay for those who don't.
Singapore and Japan have the best health systems in the world. Why?
Because Singapore has a system that combines mandatory savings accounts (MediSave), government subsidies, and public health campaigns.
Japan's healthy system is supported by a health-conscious culture. It also has culinary education to teach people about healthy eating habits from a young age.
Digs, people do not pay for life saving operations, medical treatment or doctors appointments on the NHS. That makes it free. Tbh I think most people view the NHS as free. It used to be the envy of the world before the Tories refused to pay doctors or provide it with any funding. Labour,Plaid, The Greens, and the Lib Dems would ensure the NHS remains free. Right wing parties can't profit from the NHS so they want to privatise it meaning costly medical treatment which many people can ill afford.
In Wales we also have our prescriptions free, I'm not sure if that extends to England and Scotland but I hope so.
Japan is in a terrible mess right now ,especially the economy. The youth are crumbling under the immense academic pressure put on them by their parents and many are not working. Big corporations that used to look after their workers for life with wage increases and promotions are forcing loyal workers into voluntary redundancy due to the declining economic structure.
Japan is such a weird and wonderful place though,I would love to visit one day.
Japan has an unemployment rate of about 2.5%.
Their problem is their low birthrate. You can't grow an economy well with declining workers and increasing retired people..
That's because women are considered unworthy of marriage beyond 25. Japanese men would rather look at anime porn than be intimate with real women.But many young Japanese men.are also crumbling under the immense academic pressure from.their parents and simply staying indoors.
There is an actual word in Japanese to describe this young generation(mostly young men) that remain indoors and shut themselves off from the outside world, ordering food and scrolling social media.
I think social media is part of the reason for the disconnect between the sexes. Young men never directly speak to women in the real world..But also the old fashioned values have to.be dispensed with. Women have careers now and they don't have to be wed and have two children by age 23. Young people are fleeing Japan in droves ,and sadly suicide rates are at their highest amongst young men.
I saw an informative video on the decline of Japan recently. I know it's off topic but I think you will find it interesting so I will find it.
Japan does have some issues with their male Gen Z population, like most western countries.
But again, their biggest problem is declining birth rates. Same as most of the EU..
Fluffy said
Oct 24 7:32 PM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Digger wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Red Okktober wrote:
Syl wrote:
It is all wrong, but like has been said, the laws we have at present work against us.
Which is why Reform will introduce new laws - ones that work in our favour. The existing laws are not set in stone, and as with any law, are subject to change.
Starmer is not inclined to change things that go against his beliefs, and it wasn't that long ago as a human rights lawyer that he was the one making excuses for illegals so that they could stay here. Which is why he is completely useless in his role as PM in defending our borders. It's like having a pacifist running the country during a time of war.
Farage will kick start leaving the ECHR and stripping illegals of their 'human rights' before he has even unpacked his suitcase in number 10.
All this nonsense about fleeing from danger and not being safe in France has to stop. Remember that old case about the Bolivian man who avoided deportation? Part of his defence to stay here was that he co-owned a cat, which apparently help prove he was 'settled' here and entitled to a family life. How often do we hear about serious offenders who re-offend, who were allowed to stay here due to outrageously flimsy reasons? This is the type of stuff that Farage will bring to an end, and while he is pretty much certain to be the next PM.
As Digger says, we need to get tough like the Aussies did. And we need to get on with it now, and stop passively looking on while our country goes down the toilet.
I don't expect you to deign to reply although I never conversed with you prior to here but leaving the ECHR will strip you and everyone else of their rights aswell as immigrants. Yet you don't seem to consider this.
It makes far more logical sense to amend the outdated laws regarding immigrants but remain in the ECHR as Yvette Cooper suggested . Otherwise you can forget free healthcare as the NHS will be nothing but a distant memory. We will become just like America, you may be wealthy enough to afford costly medical bills but not everyone is in such a privileged position.
The ECHR protects our right to a basic minimum wage, the right to sick pay, maternity pay, a healthy workplace environment,most basic financial freedom's. First we vote for Brexit now you intend to vote away our freedom as Putin did since he could not conform to the ECHR. Because he didn't want the Russian people to have so many rights!
If people who do not vote Reform are forced to leave the ECHR against our will and the economy dips to make the rich more wealthy(as it will) and the cost of living worsens I'm sorry but I agree that those who voted to be worse off financially should have that reflected in their tax code. Enough is enough.
You brought the economy to a screeching halt with Brexit due to your immigration concerns and we all just fell in line. If you vote away our universal rights and freedoms(can't you hear how that sounds ffs!) firstly you are unbelievably short sighted if you believe Farage won't use that to the advantage of big business and millionaires like himself and secondly you will not have ignorance as an excuse as you once did. Not all of us are so eager to be in a union of two with Russia. Isolating ourselves as a country is not the answer to our economic woes. You can't keep going the wrong way and dragging the rest of society with you ffs. Admit your mistakes and turn around.
Amend the ECHR laws regarding immigrants as Labour intend to by all means but leaving the ECHR in its entirety will surely be a death knell for this country in too many ways to contemplate.
you speak as though the NHS is free. it's not. it never has been. It's only free to those who don't pay into the system. The rest of us have to pay for those who don't.
Singapore and Japan have the best health systems in the world. Why?
Because Singapore has a system that combines mandatory savings accounts (MediSave), government subsidies, and public health campaigns.
Japan's healthy system is supported by a health-conscious culture. It also has culinary education to teach people about healthy eating habits from a young age.
Digs, people do not pay for life saving operations, medical treatment or doctors appointments on the NHS. That makes it free. Tbh I think most people view the NHS as free. It used to be the envy of the world before the Tories refused to pay doctors or provide it with any funding. Labour,Plaid, The Greens, and the Lib Dems would ensure the NHS remains free. Right wing parties can't profit from the NHS so they want to privatise it meaning costly medical treatment which many people can ill afford.
In Wales we also have our prescriptions free, I'm not sure if that extends to England and Scotland but I hope so.
Japan is in a terrible mess right now ,especially the economy. The youth are crumbling under the immense academic pressure put on them by their parents and many are not working. Big corporations that used to look after their workers for life with wage increases and promotions are forcing loyal workers into voluntary redundancy due to the declining economic structure.
Japan is such a weird and wonderful place though,I would love to visit one day.
Japan has an unemployment rate of about 2.5%.
Their problem is their low birthrate. You can't grow an economy well with declining workers and increasing retired people..
That's because women are considered unworthy of marriage beyond 25. Japanese men would rather look at anime porn than be intimate with real women.But many young Japanese men.are also crumbling under the immense academic pressure from.their parents and simply staying indoors.
There is an actual word in Japanese to describe this young generation(mostly young men) that remain indoors and shut themselves off from the outside world, ordering food and scrolling social media.
I think social media is part of the reason for the disconnect between the sexes. Young men never directly speak to women in the real world..But also the old fashioned values have to.be dispensed with. Women have careers now and they don't have to be wed and have two children by age 23. Young people are fleeing Japan in droves ,and sadly suicide rates are at their highest amongst young men.
I saw an informative video on the decline of Japan recently. I know it's off topic but I think you will find it interesting so I will find it.
Japan does have some issues with their male Gen Z population, like most western countries.
But again, their biggest problem is declining birth rates. Same as most of the EU..
Noo, it's worse than that. Watch the video, it's not long and interesting.
-- Edited by Fluffy on Friday 24th of October 2025 07:39:05 PM
Maddog said
Oct 24 9:29 PM, 2025
I've read about the isolated pockets of weird fuckers in Japan..
You don't understand the economic problems created by a declining population and low birthrate.
It's easy to fix the problems with young men not working.
Not making babies with women is a bit more difficult..
you speak as though the NHS is free. it's not. it never has been. It's only free to those who don't pay into the system. The rest of us have to pay for those who don't.
Singapore and Japan have the best health systems in the world. Why?
Because Singapore has a system that combines mandatory savings accounts (MediSave), government subsidies, and public health campaigns.
Japan's healthy system is supported by a health-conscious culture. It also has culinary education to teach people about healthy eating habits from a young age.
Digs, people do not pay for life saving operations, medical treatment or doctors appointments on the NHS. That makes it free. Tbh I think most people view the NHS as free. It used to be the envy of the world before the Tories refused to pay doctors or provide it with any funding. Labour,Plaid, The Greens, and the Lib Dems would ensure the NHS remains free. Right wing parties can't profit from the NHS so they want to privatise it meaning costly medical treatment which many people can ill afford.
In Wales we also have our prescriptions free, I'm not sure if that extends to England and Scotland but I hope so.
Japan is in a terrible mess right now ,especially the economy. The youth are crumbling under the immense academic pressure put on them by their parents and many are not working. Big corporations that used to look after their workers for life with wage increases and promotions are forcing loyal workers into voluntary redundancy due to the declining economic structure.
Japan is such a weird and wonderful place though,I would love to visit one day.
Your prescriptions are not free. Monies are allocated from taxes to subsidise prescriptions in Wales and Scotland. just because England chooses not to syphon money into free prescriptions doesn't make it free.
What planet are you on?
Syl said
Oct 25 11:11 AM, 2025
I get prescriptions free now (not that I have any unless ill) because I am an OAP. But apart from when pregnant, I have paid for them throughout my life, so does all my family.
It used to really annoy me that most times if I needed a prescription, I would be the only one who ever seemed to hand money over. I have no idea how working aged, well dressed people get away with claiming free prescriptions in England, but it doesn't surprise me that figures show 90% get them free.
Magica said
Oct 25 11:16 AM, 2025
Syl wrote:
I get prescriptions free now (not that I have any unless ill) because I am an OAP. But apart from when pregnant, I have paid for them throughout my life, so does all my family. It used to really annoy me that most times if I needed a prescription, I would be the only one who ever seemed to hand money over. I have no idea how working aged, well dressed people get away with claiming free prescriptions in England, but it doesn't surprise me that figures show 90% get them free.
Same Syl, I saw many in front of me never paid when I had to. Scotland is free, why isn't England?
Unless you are on benefits, that's why they never paid. Illegals get them free as well grrrr.
Syl said
Oct 25 11:31 AM, 2025
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
I get prescriptions free now (not that I have any unless ill) because I am an OAP. But apart from when pregnant, I have paid for them throughout my life, so does all my family. It used to really annoy me that most times if I needed a prescription, I would be the only one who ever seemed to hand money over. I have no idea how working aged, well dressed people get away with claiming free prescriptions in England, but it doesn't surprise me that figures show 90% get them free.
Same Syl, I saw many in front of me never paid when I had to. Scotland is free, why isn't England?
Unless you are on benefits, that's why they never paid. Illegals get them free as well grrrr.
Free prescriptions should be for people who for whatever reason are unable to pay at that time.
If 90% of the population fit into that category, we are in a worse state than imagined.
Anonymous said
Oct 25 11:41 AM, 2025
Syl wrote:
I get prescriptions free now (not that I have any unless ill) because I am an OAP. But apart from when pregnant, I have paid for them throughout my life, so does all my family. It used to really annoy me that most times if I needed a prescription, I would be the only one who ever seemed to hand money over. I have no idea how working aged, well dressed people get away with claiming free prescriptions in England, but it doesn't surprise me that figures show 90% get them free.
I’ve had free prescriptions for quite some time as I have a medical condition that’s on the exemption list. No one informed me for years, I found out by chance online. The thing I’ve never understood is that that exemption covers all my prescriptions eg if I need antibiotics totally unrelated to my main medical condition.
Anonymous said
Oct 25 12:27 PM, 2025
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
I get prescriptions free now (not that I have any unless ill) because I am an OAP. But apart from when pregnant, I have paid for them throughout my life, so does all my family. It used to really annoy me that most times if I needed a prescription, I would be the only one who ever seemed to hand money over. I have no idea how working aged, well dressed people get away with claiming free prescriptions in England, but it doesn't surprise me that figures show 90% get them free.
Same Syl, I saw many in front of me never paid when I had to. Scotland is free, why isn't England?
Unless you are on benefits, that's why they never paid. Illegals get them free as well grrrr.
There are a few “invisible” medical conditions that are eligible for free prescriptions, regardless of income.
Yeah, I get bloody angry too at the illegals, it’s not right.
Fluffy said
Oct 25 1:00 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
The NHS is funded by working people who pay tax and national insurance, which means the people who don't work, get it for free. Prescriptions cost the same people who work £9.90 an item....but only 10% of people pay. The other 90% are subsidised in part by the ones who pay.
Well yes I know that but everyone still refers to the NHS as free. Working people pay for all public services ., That's self evident.
I still pay National Insurance or stamp duty I believe it's called. But I still consider the NHS as free and private healthcare as something people pay for. When I was working I considered the NHS free and private healthcare people pay for.
I think most people view it that way tbh but maybe that's just my outlook because I'm currently unemployed.
-- Edited by Fluffy on Saturday 25th of October 2025 01:07:05 PM
Fluffy said
Oct 25 1:04 PM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
I get prescriptions free now (not that I have any unless ill) because I am an OAP. But apart from when pregnant, I have paid for them throughout my life, so does all my family. It used to really annoy me that most times if I needed a prescription, I would be the only one who ever seemed to hand money over. I have no idea how working aged, well dressed people get away with claiming free prescriptions in England, but it doesn't surprise me that figures show 90% get them free.
Same Syl, I saw many in front of me never paid when I had to. Scotland is free, why isn't England?
Unless you are on benefits, that's why they never paid. Illegals get them free as well grrrr.
There are a few “invisible” medical conditions that are eligible for free prescriptions, regardless of income.
Yeah, I get bloody angry too at the illegals, it’s not right.
All prescriptions are free in Wales for everybody as it happens. do consider it unfair that it doesn't happen for the English.
What invisible medical conditions would those be Guest? You have piqued my interest!
Syl said
Oct 25 1:09 PM, 2025
Fluffy wrote:
Syl wrote:
The NHS is funded by working people who pay tax and national insurance, which means the people who don't work, get it for free. Prescriptions cost the same people who work £9.90 an item....but only 10% of people pay. The other 90% are subsidised in part by the ones who pay.
Well yes I know that but everyone still refers to the NHS as free. Working people pay for all public services ., That's self evident.
I still pay National Insurance or stamp duty I believe it's called. But I still consider the NHS as free and private healthcare as something people pay for. When I was working I considered the NHS free and private healthcare something people pay for. I think most people see it that way but maybe that's just my outlook because I'm currently not working.
Most people consider the NHS to be a free service, it was advertised as that from the start.
"The National Health Service (NHS) was established as a result of the 1944 White Paper, A National Health Service.
It set out the two guiding principles. Firstly, that such a service should be comprehensive, with all citizens receiving all the advice, treatment and care they needed, combined with the best medical and other facilities available. Secondly, that the service should be free to the public at the point of use."
But obviously it's paid for by someone...and working people's tax and NI go towards it's upkeep.
The problem is, there are too few people paying and too many using. Many use it who have never contributed a penny to it's upkeep. The whole NHS needs to be rethought about, because the way it's going, it will become useless.
Vam said
Oct 25 1:17 PM, 2025
People have often told me “Vam, if you ever go back to London, you’ll no longer recognise it. It’s changed beyond recognition - and not in a good way.”
Reading through this thread, it seems to me that state-provided services across the board have reached saturation point - if not worse.
How can this situation continue to be sustainable?
Fluffy said
Oct 25 1:49 PM, 2025
Digger wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
you speak as though the NHS is free. it's not. it never has been. It's only free to those who don't pay into the system. The rest of us have to pay for those who don't.
Singapore and Japan have the best health systems in the world. Why?
Because Singapore has a system that combines mandatory savings accounts (MediSave), government subsidies, and public health campaigns.
Japan's healthy system is supported by a health-conscious culture. It also has culinary education to teach people about healthy eating habits from a young age.
Digs, people do not pay for life saving operations, medical treatment or doctors appointments on the NHS. That makes it free. Tbh I think most people view the NHS as free. It used to be the envy of the world before the Tories refused to pay doctors or provide it with any funding. Labour,Plaid, The Greens, and the Lib Dems would ensure the NHS remains free. Right wing parties can't profit from the NHS so they want to privatise it meaning costly medical treatment which many people can ill afford.
In Wales we also have our prescriptions free, I'm not sure if that extends to England and Scotland but I hope so.
Japan is in a terrible mess right now ,especially the economy. The youth are crumbling under the immense academic pressure put on them by their parents and many are not working. Big corporations that used to look after their workers for life with wage increases and promotions are forcing loyal workers into voluntary redundancy due to the declining economic structure.
Japan is such a weird and wonderful place though,I would love to visit one day.
Your prescriptions are not free. Monies are allocated from taxes to subsidise prescriptions in Wales and Scotland. just because England chooses not to syphon money into free prescriptions doesn't make it free.
What planet are you on?
Yes I know that. But people refer to them as free here because ..they don't pay for them.
It's similar to people obviously knowing taxpayers pay for the NHS and other public services but in everyday discourse (and previously on here )people generally refer to the NHS as free. Because the other option is private healthcare.which people have to pay for. I don't recall people being corrected before when they stated the NHS services are free.tbh.
Fluffy said
Oct 25 2:01 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Syl wrote:
The NHS is funded by working people who pay tax and national insurance, which means the people who don't work, get it for free. Prescriptions cost the same people who work £9.90 an item....but only 10% of people pay. The other 90% are subsidised in part by the ones who pay.
Well yes I know that but everyone still refers to the NHS as free. Working people pay for all public services ., That's self evident.
I still pay National Insurance or stamp duty I believe it's called. But I still consider the NHS as free and private healthcare as something people pay for. When I was working I considered the NHS free and private healthcare something people pay for. I think most people see it that way but maybe that's just my outlook because I'm currently not working.
Most people consider the NHS to be a free service, it was advertised as that from the start.
"The National Health Service (NHS) was established as a result of the 1944 White Paper, A National Health Service.
It set out the two guiding principles. Firstly, that such a service should be comprehensive, with all citizens receiving all the advice, treatment and care they needed, combined with the best medical and other facilities available. Secondly, that the service should be free to the public at the point of use."
But obviously it's paid for by someone...and working people's tax and NI go towards it's upkeep.
The problem is, there are too few people paying and too many using. Many use it who have never contributed a penny to it's upkeep. The whole NHS needs to be rethought about, because the way it's going, it will become useless.
No. Never change the NHS, change the people able to claim it. It deserves more funding. The Tories starved it if essential funding for a decade because they want to privatise it. And it would be a crying shame to let the billionaires profit off people's lives.
The NHS really did used to be the envy of the world. before it was underfunded. In America people pass away because they can't afford medical treatment or the price of the ambulance . That's what Reform and other right wing parties want and personally I don't.
No offence to Madders but the American healthcare system is immoral to me. People shouldn't have to have huge medical.bills or lose their house if they suddenly become unwell and need surgery.
Labour need to fund the NHS and concentrate on the cost of living but they are unable to because Brexit has allowed too many immigrants to live here. I agree, it has to stop and soon.
Magica said
Oct 25 2:43 PM, 2025
Vam wrote:
People have often told me “Vam, if you ever go back to London, you’ll no longer recognise it. It’s changed beyond recognition - and not in a good way.”
Reading through this thread, it seems to me that state-provided services across the board have reached saturation point - if not worse.
How can this situation continue to be sustainable?
Not where I live. Brixton, Peckham, Walworth where I was born, all surrounding areas are immigrants, and black immigrants. East London is predominantly muslim!
Nothing like London, apart from the posh areas, who wants immigrants here, but don't want want them where they live. Put them in someone else's back yard!
Digger said
Oct 25 5:28 PM, 2025
Fluffy wrote:
Syl wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Syl wrote:
The NHS is funded by working people who pay tax and national insurance, which means the people who don't work, get it for free. Prescriptions cost the same people who work £9.90 an item....but only 10% of people pay. The other 90% are subsidised in part by the ones who pay.
Well yes I know that but everyone still refers to the NHS as free. Working people pay for all public services ., That's self evident.
I still pay National Insurance or stamp duty I believe it's called. But I still consider the NHS as free and private healthcare as something people pay for. When I was working I considered the NHS free and private healthcare something people pay for. I think most people see it that way but maybe that's just my outlook because I'm currently not working.
Most people consider the NHS to be a free service, it was advertised as that from the start.
"The National Health Service (NHS) was established as a result of the 1944 White Paper, A National Health Service.
It set out the two guiding principles. Firstly, that such a service should be comprehensive, with all citizens receiving all the advice, treatment and care they needed, combined with the best medical and other facilities available. Secondly, that the service should be free to the public at the point of use."
But obviously it's paid for by someone...and working people's tax and NI go towards it's upkeep.
The problem is, there are too few people paying and too many using. Many use it who have never contributed a penny to it's upkeep. The whole NHS needs to be rethought about, because the way it's going, it will become useless.
No. Never change the NHS, change the people able to claim it. It deserves more funding. The Tories starved it if essential funding for a decade because they want to privatise it. And it would be a crying shame to let the billionaires profit off people's lives.
The NHS really did used to be the envy of the world. before it was underfunded. In America people pass away because they can't afford medical treatment or the price of the ambulance . That's what Reform and other right wing parties want and personally I don't.
No offence to Madders but the American healthcare system is immoral to me. People shouldn't have to have huge medical.bills or lose their house if they suddenly become unwell and need surgery.
Labour need to fund the NHS and concentrate on the cost of living but they are unable to because Brexit has allowed too many immigrants to live here. I agree, it has to stop and soon.
Where do you think the money is going to come from? People who work are already up to the hilt in taxes, so tell me, where will it all come from?
Digger said
Oct 25 5:31 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Syl wrote:
The NHS is funded by working people who pay tax and national insurance, which means the people who don't work, get it for free. Prescriptions cost the same people who work £9.90 an item....but only 10% of people pay. The other 90% are subsidised in part by the ones who pay.
Well yes I know that but everyone still refers to the NHS as free. Working people pay for all public services ., That's self evident.
I still pay National Insurance or stamp duty I believe it's called. But I still consider the NHS as free and private healthcare as something people pay for. When I was working I considered the NHS free and private healthcare something people pay for. I think most people see it that way but maybe that's just my outlook because I'm currently not working.
Most people consider the NHS to be a free service, it was advertised as that from the start.
"The National Health Service (NHS) was established as a result of the 1944 White Paper, A National Health Service.
It set out the two guiding principles. Firstly, that such a service should be comprehensive, with all citizens receiving all the advice, treatment and care they needed, combined with the best medical and other facilities available. Secondly, that the service should be free to the public at the point of use."
But obviously it's paid for by someone...and working people's tax and NI go towards it's upkeep.
The problem is, there are too few people paying and too many using. Many use it who have never contributed a penny to it's upkeep. The whole NHS needs to be rethought about, because the way it's going, it will become useless.
Exactly. It's not a bottomless pit. The way things are going the whole social care system will implode beneath the pressure. People working who pay tax are being wrung dry.
That's because women are considered unworthy of marriage beyond 25. Japanese men would rather look at anime porn than be intimate with real women.But many young Japanese men.are also crumbling under the immense academic pressure from.their parents and simply staying indoors.
There is an actual word in Japanese to describe this young generation(mostly young men) that remain indoors and shut themselves off from the outside world, ordering food and scrolling social media.
I think social media is part of the reason for the disconnect between the sexes. Young men never directly speak to women in the real world..But also the old fashioned values have to.be dispensed with. Women have careers now and they don't have to be wed and have two children by age 23. Young people are fleeing Japan in droves ,and sadly suicide rates are at their highest amongst young men.
I saw an informative video on the decline of Japan recently. I know it's off topic but I think you will find it interesting so I will find it.
-- Edited by Fluffy on Friday 24th of October 2025 07:30:48 PM
Japan does have some issues with their male Gen Z population, like most western countries.
But again, their biggest problem is declining birth rates. Same as most of the EU..
Noo, it's worse than that. Watch the video, it's not long and interesting.
-- Edited by Fluffy on Friday 24th of October 2025 07:39:05 PM
You don't understand the economic problems created by a declining population and low birthrate.
It's easy to fix the problems with young men not working.
Not making babies with women is a bit more difficult..
Your prescriptions are not free. Monies are allocated from taxes to subsidise prescriptions in Wales and Scotland. just because England chooses not to syphon money into free prescriptions doesn't make it free.
What planet are you on?
I get prescriptions free now (not that I have any unless ill) because I am an OAP. But apart from when pregnant, I have paid for them throughout my life, so does all my family.
It used to really annoy me that most times if I needed a prescription, I would be the only one who ever seemed to hand money over. I have no idea how working aged, well dressed people get away with claiming free prescriptions in England, but it doesn't surprise me that figures show 90% get them free.
Same Syl, I saw many in front of me never paid when I had to. Scotland is free, why isn't England?
Unless you are on benefits, that's why they never paid. Illegals get them free as well grrrr.
Free prescriptions should be for people who for whatever reason are unable to pay at that time.
If 90% of the population fit into that category, we are in a worse state than imagined.
I’ve had free prescriptions for quite some time as I have a medical condition that’s on the exemption list. No one informed me for years, I found out by chance online. The thing I’ve never understood is that that exemption covers all my prescriptions eg if I need antibiotics totally unrelated to my main medical condition.
There are a few “invisible” medical conditions that are eligible for free prescriptions, regardless of income.
Yeah, I get bloody angry too at the illegals, it’s not right.
Well yes I know that but everyone still refers to the NHS as free. Working people pay for all public services ., That's self evident.
I still pay National Insurance or stamp duty I believe it's called. But I still consider the NHS as free and private healthcare as something people pay for. When I was working I considered the NHS free and private healthcare people pay for.
I think most people view it that way tbh but maybe that's just my outlook because I'm currently unemployed.
-- Edited by Fluffy on Saturday 25th of October 2025 01:07:05 PM
All prescriptions are free in Wales for everybody as it happens. do consider it unfair that it doesn't happen for the English.
What invisible medical conditions would those be Guest? You have piqued my interest!
Most people consider the NHS to be a free service, it was advertised as that from the start.
"The National Health Service (NHS) was established as a result of the 1944 White Paper, A National Health Service.
It set out the two guiding principles. Firstly, that such a service should be comprehensive, with all citizens receiving all the advice, treatment and care they needed, combined with the best medical and other facilities available. Secondly, that the service should be free to the public at the point of use."
But obviously it's paid for by someone...and working people's tax and NI go towards it's upkeep.
The problem is, there are too few people paying and too many using. Many use it who have never contributed a penny to it's upkeep. The whole NHS needs to be rethought about, because the way it's going, it will become useless.
People have often told me “Vam, if you ever go back to London, you’ll no longer recognise it. It’s changed beyond recognition - and not in a good way.”
Reading through this thread, it seems to me that state-provided services across the board have reached saturation point - if not worse.
How can this situation continue to be sustainable?
Yes I know that. But people refer to them as free here because ..they don't pay for them.
It's similar to people obviously knowing taxpayers pay for the NHS and other public services but in everyday discourse (and previously on here )people generally refer to the NHS as free. Because the other option is private healthcare.which people have to pay for. I don't recall people being corrected before when they stated the NHS services are free.tbh.
No. Never change the NHS, change the people able to claim it. It deserves more funding. The Tories starved it if essential funding for a decade because they want to privatise it. And it would be a crying shame to let the billionaires profit off people's lives.
The NHS really did used to be the envy of the world. before it was underfunded. In America people pass away because they can't afford medical treatment or the price of the ambulance . That's what Reform and other right wing parties want and personally I don't.
No offence to Madders but the American healthcare system is immoral to me. People shouldn't have to have huge medical.bills or lose their house if they suddenly become unwell and need surgery.
Labour need to fund the NHS and concentrate on the cost of living but they are unable to because Brexit has allowed too many immigrants to live here. I agree, it has to stop and soon.
Not where I live. Brixton, Peckham, Walworth where I was born, all surrounding areas are immigrants, and black immigrants. East London is predominantly muslim!
Nothing like London, apart from the posh areas, who wants immigrants here, but don't want want them where they live. Put them in someone else's back yard!
Where do you think the money is going to come from? People who work are already up to the hilt in taxes, so tell me, where will it all come from?
Exactly. It's not a bottomless pit. The way things are going the whole social care system will implode beneath the pressure. People working who pay tax are being wrung dry.