/\ Sadly that's nothing new. Fifteen years ago my mum waited all day for an ambulance to be sent to hospital to transport her to an end of life care home. It didn't come, she waited till teatime the following day for one to arrive.
So sorry to hear that Syl.
The only ambulance I’ve ever had to call was when I returned from shopping to find an elderly neighbour collapsed on the floor of our building. She wasn’t very coherent so I had no idea what had happened, what injuries she had etc, luckily the ambulance arrived within minutes.
A lot, I feel, may be down to the area. We live in a fairly small town.
It was the first time my mum had ever needed an ambulance in her whole life, and she was 93.
We were not allowed to transport her ourselves because she had to be lay down.
I have heard of people dying whist waiting for an ambulance to arrive.
Maddog said
Dec 18 4:15 AM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
/\ Sadly that's nothing new. Fifteen years ago my mum waited all day for an ambulance to be sent to hospital to transport her to an end of life care home. It didn't come, she waited till teatime the following day for one to arrive.
It was a "free" ambulance.
Healthcare is one of those areas where there aren't really solutions, but tradeoffs.
I'm reminded of the saying that you can never get more than two of the three.....
Fast
Affordable
High Quality..
It wasn't 'free'. It was NHS, which my mother contributed to for decades.
Well, I know that.
The big selling point for a national health service over here is that we have politicians and pundits talking about how it's "free"..
The average American would go ballistic if their medical care was so lacking.
Instead we go ballistic thinking that we can spend a lot less (or nothing) and not see a significant drop in service..
Syl said
Dec 18 11:38 AM, 2025
Maddog, we have had this conversation before.
Millions of Americans can't access the medical care they need because of the cost....I put up various reliable charts and links months ago, which proved that. Read back, I am not searching them out again.
The NHS here has been in decline for years, it needs a big overhaul.
It was founded on being free for all at point of service, which worked when we were a country of workers. Now we have millions taking advantage of the service who have never contributed a penny in it's upkeep.
Magica said
Dec 18 12:02 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Maddog, we have had this conversation before. Millions of Americans can't access the medical care they need because of the cost....I put up various reliable charts and links months ago, which proved that. Read back, I am not searching them out again.
The NHS here has been in decline for years, it needs a big overhaul. It was founded on being free for all at point of service, which worked when we were a country of workers. Now we have millions taking advantage of the service who have never contributed a penny in it's upkeep.
Too many immigrants, and layouts poncing off the state. Not worked, not.put in a penny. I think they should pay imo.
Syl said
Dec 18 1:24 PM, 2025
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog, we have had this conversation before. Millions of Americans can't access the medical care they need because of the cost....I put up various reliable charts and links months ago, which proved that. Read back, I am not searching them out again.
The NHS here has been in decline for years, it needs a big overhaul. It was founded on being free for all at point of service, which worked when we were a country of workers. Now we have millions taking advantage of the service who have never contributed a penny in it's upkeep.
Too many immigrants, and layouts poncing off the state. Not worked, not.put in a penny. I think they should pay imo.
In an ideal world people who have paid in should be prioritised...but that was never the ideology behind the NHS.
But as been said...times have changed, and what worked well once is falling apart now, because GB is so very different to when the NHS was founded.
Magica said
Dec 18 1:57 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog, we have had this conversation before. Millions of Americans can't access the medical care they need because of the cost....I put up various reliable charts and links months ago, which proved that. Read back, I am not searching them out again.
The NHS here has been in decline for years, it needs a big overhaul. It was founded on being free for all at point of service, which worked when we were a country of workers. Now we have millions taking advantage of the service who have never contributed a penny in it's upkeep.
Too many immigrants, and layouts poncing off the state. Not worked, not.put in a penny. I think they should pay imo.
In an ideal world people who have paid in should be prioritised...but that was never the ideology behind the NHS.
But as been said...times have changed, and what worked well once is falling apart now, because GB is so very different to when the NHS was founded.
Oh for sure Syl. Everyone worked, paid.in. It's sad to see how our country has collapsed, and it's not gonna get baby better.
Starmer let's them in, they're his future voters! God forbid!
Maddog said
Dec 18 6:16 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Maddog, we have had this conversation before. Millions of Americans can't access the medical care they need because of the cost....I put up various reliable charts and links months ago, which proved that. Read back, I am not searching them out again.
The NHS here has been in decline for years, it needs a big overhaul. It was founded on being free for all at point of service, which worked when we were a country of workers. Now we have millions taking advantage of the service who have never contributed a penny in it's upkeep.
And millions of Brits don't get the care they need when they need it..
Americans don't usually complain about their service. We complain about the cost..
Cost that is zero for the poorest Americans and very cheap for the next rung up the ladder. It's definitely not cheap for those that make a good living..
You've been fed bullshit by those who think your system works better, in an attempt to defend that system..
Red Okktober said
Dec 18 6:32 PM, 2025
"Schoolboys aged just 11 will be sent on "anti-misogyny training courses" as part of a new Labour scheme to "protect women and girls".
This has got disaster written all over it, and will be abused and badly handled by lefty woke teachers. The poor boys will be shit scared to open their mouths or approach a girl.
They may just as well start castrating them before they reach puberty.
If Starmer and co really want to protect women and girls, they should do something about grooming gangs and small boat illegals, and not 11 year olds in school.
I'm wondering if this will apply to all schools including faith/muslim schools or just regular ones?
Maddog said
Dec 18 6:44 PM, 2025
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog, we have had this conversation before. Millions of Americans can't access the medical care they need because of the cost....I put up various reliable charts and links months ago, which proved that. Read back, I am not searching them out again.
The NHS here has been in decline for years, it needs a big overhaul. It was founded on being free for all at point of service, which worked when we were a country of workers. Now we have millions taking advantage of the service who have never contributed a penny in it's upkeep.
Too many immigrants, and layouts poncing off the state. Not worked, not.put in a penny. I think they should pay imo.
You need those immigrants for your doctor's and nurses.
My doctor's name is Michael and his nurse is Sheila. They make quite a bit more than their counterparts in the UK..
I think they are worth it.
I see them 4 times a year, in person, and they do blood work every time I see them. Me and my doctor shoot the shit for 15 minutes a visit and Sheila calls me with my lab results the day after my doctor's visit.
I couldn't be more pleased and I don't even have a "Gold" or "Cadillac " plan..
Anonymous said
Dec 18 7:14 PM, 2025
Red Okktober wrote:
"Schoolboys aged just 11 will be sent on "anti-misogyny training courses" as part of a new Labour scheme to "protect women and girls".
This has got disaster written all over it, and will be abused and badly handled by lefty woke teachers. The poor boys will be shit scared to open their mouths or approach a girl.
They may just as well start castrating them before they reach puberty.
If Starmer and co really want to protect women and girls, they should do something about grooming gangs and small boat illegals, and not 11 year olds in school.
I'm wondering if this will apply to all schools including faith/muslim schools or just regular ones?
Notice no black faces in the pic the BBC used...
Magica said
Dec 18 7:27 PM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog, we have had this conversation before. Millions of Americans can't access the medical care they need because of the cost....I put up various reliable charts and links months ago, which proved that. Read back, I am not searching them out again.
The NHS here has been in decline for years, it needs a big overhaul. It was founded on being free for all at point of service, which worked when we were a country of workers. Now we have millions taking advantage of the service who have never contributed a penny in it's upkeep.
Too many immigrants, and layouts poncing off the state. Not worked, not.put in a penny. I think they should pay imo.
You need those immigrants for your doctor's and nurses.
My doctor's name is Michael and his nurse is Sheila. They make quite a bit more than their counterparts in the UK..
I think they are worth it.
I see them 4 times a year, in person, and they do blood work every time I see them. Me and my doctor shoot the shit for 15 minutes a visit and Sheila calls me with my lab results the day after my doctor's visit.
I couldn't be more pleased and I don't even have a "Gold" or "Cadillac " plan..
Once upon a time, nurses and doctors were white British. But importing immigrants, and nurses and doctors from abroad because they were cheaper, has left us with so many and no British doctors or nurses.
Syl said
Dec 18 7:30 PM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog, we have had this conversation before. Millions of Americans can't access the medical care they need because of the cost....I put up various reliable charts and links months ago, which proved that. Read back, I am not searching them out again.
The NHS here has been in decline for years, it needs a big overhaul. It was founded on being free for all at point of service, which worked when we were a country of workers. Now we have millions taking advantage of the service who have never contributed a penny in it's upkeep.
And millions of Brits don't get the care they need when they need it..
Americans don't usually complain about their service. We complain about the cost..
Cost that is zero for the poorest Americans and very cheap for the next rung up the ladder. It's definitely not cheap for those that make a good living..
You've been fed bullshit by those who think your system works better, in an attempt to defend that system..
I think you are fed the bullshit, You may be able o afford insurance for private health care, and the very poor and elderly may get a medical service for free, but there are millions of middle earning Americans who cannot afford adequate insurance cover, so they go without treatment. IF they get the treatment they also get huge bills afterwards, get in dept,have to remortgage homes etc etc.
But we HAVE been through this before, in spite of you wanting to go through it again.
Brits actually face the bad in our medical system, ie, the NHS. But make no mistake, it saves thousands of lives daily....people tend to moan when it's not worked efficiently, they take it for granted when it's good.
I am thousands of ££ in over the last 2 years with hip and knee replacements. I would have got the same op with possibly the same surgeon had I paid privately, I would have just got it quicker, and as I have pointed out a million times, we DO have the option to go privately if and when we ever need to.
Maddog said
Dec 18 7:31 PM, 2025
Magica wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog, we have had this conversation before. Millions of Americans can't access the medical care they need because of the cost....I put up various reliable charts and links months ago, which proved that. Read back, I am not searching them out again.
The NHS here has been in decline for years, it needs a big overhaul. It was founded on being free for all at point of service, which worked when we were a country of workers. Now we have millions taking advantage of the service who have never contributed a penny in it's upkeep.
Too many immigrants, and layouts poncing off the state. Not worked, not.put in a penny. I think they should pay imo.
You need those immigrants for your doctor's and nurses.
My doctor's name is Michael and his nurse is Sheila. They make quite a bit more than their counterparts in the UK..
I think they are worth it.
I see them 4 times a year, in person, and they do blood work every time I see them. Me and my doctor shoot the shit for 15 minutes a visit and Sheila calls me with my lab results the day after my doctor's visit.
I couldn't be more pleased and I don't even have a "Gold" or "Cadillac " plan..
Once upon a time, nurses and doctors were white British. But importing immigrants, and nurses and doctors from abroad because they were cheaper, has left us with so many and no British doctors or nurses.
Which is why I don't believe cheaper is better, especially in terms of healthcare..
Maddog said
Dec 18 7:34 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog, we have had this conversation before. Millions of Americans can't access the medical care they need because of the cost....I put up various reliable charts and links months ago, which proved that. Read back, I am not searching them out again.
The NHS here has been in decline for years, it needs a big overhaul. It was founded on being free for all at point of service, which worked when we were a country of workers. Now we have millions taking advantage of the service who have never contributed a penny in it's upkeep.
And millions of Brits don't get the care they need when they need it..
Americans don't usually complain about their service. We complain about the cost..
Cost that is zero for the poorest Americans and very cheap for the next rung up the ladder. It's definitely not cheap for those that make a good living..
You've been fed bullshit by those who think your system works better, in an attempt to defend that system..
I think you are fed the bullshit, You may be able o afford insurance for private health care, and the very poor and elderly may get a medical service for free, but there are millions of middle earning Americans who cannot afford adequate insurance cover, so they go without treatment. IF they get the treatment they also get huge bills afterwards, get in dept,have to remortgage homes etc etc.
But we HAVE been through this before, in spite of you wanting to go through it again.
Brits actually face the bad in our medical system, ie, the NHS. But make no mistake, it saves thousands of lives daily....people tend to moan when it's not worked efficiently, they take it for granted when it's good.
I am thousands of ££ in over the last 2 years with hip and knee replacements. I would have got the same op with possibly the same surgeon had I paid privately, I would have just got it quicker, and as I have pointed out a million times, we DO have the option to go privately if and when we ever need to.
Subsidies kick in below about 62K per year.
For a single person anyway.
Do you think people that make that amount can't afford $300 per month?
Magica said
Dec 18 7:34 PM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Magica wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog, we have had this conversation before. Millions of Americans can't access the medical care they need because of the cost....I put up various reliable charts and links months ago, which proved that. Read back, I am not searching them out again.
The NHS here has been in decline for years, it needs a big overhaul. It was founded on being free for all at point of service, which worked when we were a country of workers. Now we have millions taking advantage of the service who have never contributed a penny in it's upkeep.
Too many immigrants, and layouts poncing off the state. Not worked, not.put in a penny. I think they should pay imo.
You need those immigrants for your doctor's and nurses.
My doctor's name is Michael and his nurse is Sheila. They make quite a bit more than their counterparts in the UK..
I think they are worth it.
I see them 4 times a year, in person, and they do blood work every time I see them. Me and my doctor shoot the shit for 15 minutes a visit and Sheila calls me with my lab results the day after my doctor's visit.
I couldn't be more pleased and I don't even have a "Gold" or "Cadillac " plan..
Once upon a time, nurses and doctors were white British. But importing immigrants, and nurses and doctors from abroad because they were cheaper, has left us with so many and no British doctors or nurses.
Which is why I don't believe cheaper is better, especially in terms of healthcare..
We couldn't afford it without NHS.
Maddog said
Dec 18 7:42 PM, 2025
Magica wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Magica wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog, we have had this conversation before. Millions of Americans can't access the medical care they need because of the cost....I put up various reliable charts and links months ago, which proved that. Read back, I am not searching them out again.
The NHS here has been in decline for years, it needs a big overhaul. It was founded on being free for all at point of service, which worked when we were a country of workers. Now we have millions taking advantage of the service who have never contributed a penny in it's upkeep.
Too many immigrants, and layouts poncing off the state. Not worked, not.put in a penny. I think they should pay imo.
You need those immigrants for your doctor's and nurses.
My doctor's name is Michael and his nurse is Sheila. They make quite a bit more than their counterparts in the UK..
I think they are worth it.
I see them 4 times a year, in person, and they do blood work every time I see them. Me and my doctor shoot the shit for 15 minutes a visit and Sheila calls me with my lab results the day after my doctor's visit.
I couldn't be more pleased and I don't even have a "Gold" or "Cadillac " plan..
Once upon a time, nurses and doctors were white British. But importing immigrants, and nurses and doctors from abroad because they were cheaper, has left us with so many and no British doctors or nurses.
Which is why I don't believe cheaper is better, especially in terms of healthcare..
We couldn't afford it without NHS.
Sure you could. Very few countries have a system like the NHS.
You have been convinced the NHS is some sort modern marvel or worse, a deity.
Syl said
Dec 18 7:46 PM, 2025
This is an up-to-date report of the health both here and in the US. Maybe we are just more pessimistic, because studies show we are in fact healthier, and the NHS has a lot to do with that, than our American neighbours.
This is an up-to-date report of the health both here and in the US. Maybe we are just more pessimistic, because studies show we are in fact healthier, and the NHS has a lot to do with that, than our American neighbours.
Syl, I typed out a researched reply to Maddog, sat back and realised it was Groundhog Day yet again so deleted it. When he won't or can't accept that even his own homegrown medics are proving how poor the US system is compared to the NHS.
I admire your tenacity though.
Maddog said
Dec 18 7:54 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
This is an up-to-date report of the health both here and in the US. Maybe we are just more pessimistic, because studies show we are in fact healthier, and the NHS has a lot to do with that, than our American neighbours.
It was the first time my mum had ever needed an ambulance in her whole life, and she was 93.
We were not allowed to transport her ourselves because she had to be lay down.
I have heard of people dying whist waiting for an ambulance to arrive.
Well, I know that.
The big selling point for a national health service over here is that we have politicians and pundits talking about how it's "free"..
The average American would go ballistic if their medical care was so lacking.
Instead we go ballistic thinking that we can spend a lot less (or nothing) and not see a significant drop in service..
Millions of Americans can't access the medical care they need because of the cost....I put up various reliable charts and links months ago, which proved that. Read back, I am not searching them out again.
The NHS here has been in decline for years, it needs a big overhaul.
It was founded on being free for all at point of service, which worked when we were a country of workers. Now we have millions taking advantage of the service who have never contributed a penny in it's upkeep.
Too many immigrants, and layouts poncing off the state. Not worked, not.put in a penny. I think they should pay imo.
In an ideal world people who have paid in should be prioritised...but that was never the ideology behind the NHS.
But as been said...times have changed, and what worked well once is falling apart now, because GB is so very different to when the NHS was founded.
Oh for sure Syl. Everyone worked, paid.in. It's sad to see how our country has collapsed, and it's not gonna get baby better.
Starmer let's them in, they're his future voters! God forbid!
And millions of Brits don't get the care they need when they need it..
Americans don't usually complain about their service. We complain about the cost..
Cost that is zero for the poorest Americans and very cheap for the next rung up the ladder. It's definitely not cheap for those that make a good living..
You've been fed bullshit by those who think your system works better, in an attempt to defend that system..
This has got disaster written all over it, and will be abused and badly handled by lefty woke teachers. The poor boys will be shit scared to open their mouths or approach a girl.
They may just as well start castrating them before they reach puberty.
If Starmer and co really want to protect women and girls, they should do something about grooming gangs and small boat illegals, and not 11 year olds in school.
I'm wondering if this will apply to all schools including faith/muslim schools or just regular ones?
You need those immigrants for your doctor's and nurses.
My doctor's name is Michael and his nurse is Sheila. They make quite a bit more than their counterparts in the UK..
I think they are worth it.
I see them 4 times a year, in person, and they do blood work every time I see them. Me and my doctor shoot the shit for 15 minutes a visit and Sheila calls me with my lab results the day after my doctor's visit.
I couldn't be more pleased and I don't even have a "Gold" or "Cadillac " plan..
Notice no black faces in the pic the BBC used...
Once upon a time, nurses and doctors were white British. But importing immigrants, and nurses and doctors from abroad because they were cheaper, has left us with so many and no British doctors or nurses.
I think you are fed the bullshit, You may be able o afford insurance for private health care, and the very poor and elderly may get a medical service for free, but there are millions of middle earning Americans who cannot afford adequate insurance cover, so they go without treatment. IF they get the treatment they also get huge bills afterwards, get in dept,have to remortgage homes etc etc.
But we HAVE been through this before, in spite of you wanting to go through it again.
Brits actually face the bad in our medical system, ie, the NHS. But make no mistake, it saves thousands of lives daily....people tend to moan when it's not worked efficiently, they take it for granted when it's good.
I am thousands of ££ in over the last 2 years with hip and knee replacements. I would have got the same op with possibly the same surgeon had I paid privately, I would have just got it quicker, and as I have pointed out a million times, we DO have the option to go privately if and when we ever need to.
Which is why I don't believe cheaper is better, especially in terms of healthcare..
Subsidies kick in below about 62K per year.
For a single person anyway.
Do you think people that make that amount can't afford $300 per month?
We couldn't afford it without NHS.
Sure you could. Very few countries have a system like the NHS.
You have been convinced the NHS is some sort modern marvel or worse, a deity.
This is an up-to-date report of the health both here and in the US.
Maybe we are just more pessimistic, because studies show we are in fact healthier, and the NHS has a lot to do with that, than our American neighbours.
Britons ‘healthier than Americans’ but more likely to doubt health, study finds | The Independent
They tend to do that for feelgood stories like exam results, courses and job opportunities etc.
Here's the misogyny one:
Syl, I typed out a researched reply to Maddog, sat back and realised it was Groundhog Day yet again so deleted it. When he won't or can't accept that even his own homegrown medics are proving how poor the US system is compared to the NHS.
I admire your tenacity though.
Healthcare isn't the same as culture and lifestyle.
The Japanese are far healthier than the Brits and it has zero to do with their healthcare system..
I sit in waiting rooms full of unhealthy people with shitty lifestyles that their doctor's tell them to change.
Now compare cancer survival rates, which measures actual healthcare not cultural differences..