The Bluntnose sixgill is one of the least known animals on the planet and they are truly massive predators, their sheer bulk in the vid when crashing into the sub is awesome.
Maddog said
May 2 7:50 AM, 2021
John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:
I've done a bit of research. It appears that the Idaho Fish and Game Department wants to decrease the number of wolves,, but not this drastically. They don't want politicians making this call, they want to be in charge of what actions are taken and how many wolves are culled.
I usually defer to the actual biologists in charge of managing wildlife.
So in this case I hope the bill fails.
Why cull them? I hate the way humans play God.
Same reason you cull any wild animal. There is a goal for a certain level of species in a certain area.
Managing animals is sorta God like I guess.
Right now I'm trying to mange the number of Colorado Potato Beetles in my garden, because they are destroying my eggplants. I don't care if a few of them are chewing on the leaves, but right now there are more than my poor little eggplants can handle. I'm playing God and smoting those things every chance I get.
All animals can pose a risk to balance if their numbers are too high.
Especially a certain bipedal ape.
Actually, places like Hong Kong have managed to strike a pretty good balance.
And let's be honest, only Apes like you care about wolves. They don't care about your survival. So the Apes have some qualities that none of the other organisms on this planet have..
Digger said
May 2 12:33 PM, 2021
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
The gun nuts will be slobbering all over this a wonderful excuse for mindless slaughter.
-- Edited by John Doe on Saturday 1st of May 2021 01:56:04 AM
Can't read the first article because I'm not a member, but predator control is usually supported by folks who raise livestock. Hunters are usually happy to oblige. I know when I hunted on ranch land the owners always asked us to kill coyotes. I rarely did because I was there to hunt deer.
I watched the video of Wayne. He dropped the elephant on the first shot.
I don't know what the problem was with the coup de gras.
I guess the guide was pointing to the wrong part of the head or something.
It's why head shots are a bad idea until the animal is down.
As for people like me being nuts, you may want to be careful using that term. If I'm not mistaken, you have a few issues of your own that afflict you.
-- Edited by Maddog on Saturday 1st of May 2021 06:40:42 PM
I never even thought about you - I was referring to mindless slaughter not hunting deer for meat.
The ranchers would be well compensated for any (miniscule) losses they may suffer.
Oh and anyone who wants to murder an endangered species after decades of conservation in the state brought them back from the brink (the wolves) or wants to shoot an elephant for bragging rights is a grade A arsehole in my opinion.
Hunting wolves wouldn't be mindless slaughter.
It would be the same as hunting elephants. Managed based on the number of animals in a given area. You can't just relocate animals. Many of them die in the process.
Hunting is an important tool in the conservation process, regardless of if you eat what you hunt.
There wouldn't be any need for conservation if not for humans. Nature balances itself. We destroy it, mend it, destroy it, mend it...
Anonymous said
May 2 3:08 PM, 2021
There wouldn't be any need for conservation if not for humans. Nature balances itself. We destroy it, mend it, destroy it, mend it...
We are nature.
Maddog said
May 3 12:31 AM, 2021
Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
The gun nuts will be slobbering all over this a wonderful excuse for mindless slaughter.
-- Edited by John Doe on Saturday 1st of May 2021 01:56:04 AM
Can't read the first article because I'm not a member, but predator control is usually supported by folks who raise livestock. Hunters are usually happy to oblige. I know when I hunted on ranch land the owners always asked us to kill coyotes. I rarely did because I was there to hunt deer.
I watched the video of Wayne. He dropped the elephant on the first shot.
I don't know what the problem was with the coup de gras.
I guess the guide was pointing to the wrong part of the head or something.
It's why head shots are a bad idea until the animal is down.
As for people like me being nuts, you may want to be careful using that term. If I'm not mistaken, you have a few issues of your own that afflict you.
-- Edited by Maddog on Saturday 1st of May 2021 06:40:42 PM
I never even thought about you - I was referring to mindless slaughter not hunting deer for meat.
The ranchers would be well compensated for any (miniscule) losses they may suffer.
Oh and anyone who wants to murder an endangered species after decades of conservation in the state brought them back from the brink (the wolves) or wants to shoot an elephant for bragging rights is a grade A arsehole in my opinion.
Hunting wolves wouldn't be mindless slaughter.
It would be the same as hunting elephants. Managed based on the number of animals in a given area. You can't just relocate animals. Many of them die in the process.
Hunting is an important tool in the conservation process, regardless of if you eat what you hunt.
There wouldn't be any need for conservation if not for humans. Nature balances itself. We destroy it, mend it, destroy it, mend it...
Nature has been destroying species since forever.
Every disease known to man is part of nature.
I'm ok with man fighting nature when it tries to destroy things..
And I like air conditioning, even if nature might not.
John Doe said
May 3 1:57 AM, 2021
Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
The gun nuts will be slobbering all over this a wonderful excuse for mindless slaughter.
-- Edited by John Doe on Saturday 1st of May 2021 01:56:04 AM
Can't read the first article because I'm not a member, but predator control is usually supported by folks who raise livestock. Hunters are usually happy to oblige. I know when I hunted on ranch land the owners always asked us to kill coyotes. I rarely did because I was there to hunt deer.
I watched the video of Wayne. He dropped the elephant on the first shot.
I don't know what the problem was with the coup de gras.
I guess the guide was pointing to the wrong part of the head or something.
It's why head shots are a bad idea until the animal is down.
As for people like me being nuts, you may want to be careful using that term. If I'm not mistaken, you have a few issues of your own that afflict you.
-- Edited by Maddog on Saturday 1st of May 2021 06:40:42 PM
I never even thought about you - I was referring to mindless slaughter not hunting deer for meat.
The ranchers would be well compensated for any (miniscule) losses they may suffer.
Oh and anyone who wants to murder an endangered species after decades of conservation in the state brought them back from the brink (the wolves) or wants to shoot an elephant for bragging rights is a grade A arsehole in my opinion.
Hunting wolves wouldn't be mindless slaughter.
It would be the same as hunting elephants. Managed based on the number of animals in a given area. You can't just relocate animals. Many of them die in the process.
Hunting is an important tool in the conservation process, regardless of if you eat what you hunt.
There wouldn't be any need for conservation if not for humans. Nature balances itself. We destroy it, mend it, destroy it, mend it...
Nature has been destroying species since forever.
Every disease known to man is part of nature.
I'm ok with man fighting nature when it tries to destroy things..
And I like air conditioning, even if nature might not.
We are the stewards of this planet and are doing a fucking awful job.
I will be honest now at the risk of seeming some sort of poncing 'nancy' boy MD.
How can you shoot a living being to kill it and and sleep?
Just wondering.
No cheap shots.
Maddog said
May 3 6:32 AM, 2021
John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
The gun nuts will be slobbering all over this a wonderful excuse for mindless slaughter.
-- Edited by John Doe on Saturday 1st of May 2021 01:56:04 AM
Can't read the first article because I'm not a member, but predator control is usually supported by folks who raise livestock. Hunters are usually happy to oblige. I know when I hunted on ranch land the owners always asked us to kill coyotes. I rarely did because I was there to hunt deer.
I watched the video of Wayne. He dropped the elephant on the first shot.
I don't know what the problem was with the coup de gras.
I guess the guide was pointing to the wrong part of the head or something.
It's why head shots are a bad idea until the animal is down.
As for people like me being nuts, you may want to be careful using that term. If I'm not mistaken, you have a few issues of your own that afflict you.
-- Edited by Maddog on Saturday 1st of May 2021 06:40:42 PM
I never even thought about you - I was referring to mindless slaughter not hunting deer for meat.
The ranchers would be well compensated for any (miniscule) losses they may suffer.
Oh and anyone who wants to murder an endangered species after decades of conservation in the state brought them back from the brink (the wolves) or wants to shoot an elephant for bragging rights is a grade A arsehole in my opinion.
Hunting wolves wouldn't be mindless slaughter.
It would be the same as hunting elephants. Managed based on the number of animals in a given area. You can't just relocate animals. Many of them die in the process.
Hunting is an important tool in the conservation process, regardless of if you eat what you hunt.
There wouldn't be any need for conservation if not for humans. Nature balances itself. We destroy it, mend it, destroy it, mend it...
Nature has been destroying species since forever.
Every disease known to man is part of nature.
I'm ok with man fighting nature when it tries to destroy things..
And I like air conditioning, even if nature might not.
We are the stewards of this planet and are doing a fucking awful job.
I will be honest now at the risk of seeming some sort of poncing 'nancy' boy MD.
How can you shoot a living being to kill it and and sleep?
Just wondering.
No cheap shots.
Same way you eat them, minus the hypocrisy.
Anonymous said
May 3 7:46 AM, 2021
I bloody love you MD. You always see through the BS, you aim and fire without ever being nasty. The world needs more like you right now.
Syl said
May 3 2:16 PM, 2021
There is a big difference in rearing and killing animals for food and killing them for sport and pleasure.
I think whether you eat meat or not you can distinguish between the two.
Digger said
May 3 2:43 PM, 2021
Anonymousrollup wrote:
There wouldn't be any need for conservation if not for humans. Nature balances itself. We destroy it, mend it, destroy it, mend it...
We are nature.
of the worst kind.
Digger said
May 3 2:45 PM, 2021
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
The gun nuts will be slobbering all over this a wonderful excuse for mindless slaughter.
-- Edited by John Doe on Saturday 1st of May 2021 01:56:04 AM
Can't read the first article because I'm not a member, but predator control is usually supported by folks who raise livestock. Hunters are usually happy to oblige. I know when I hunted on ranch land the owners always asked us to kill coyotes. I rarely did because I was there to hunt deer.
I watched the video of Wayne. He dropped the elephant on the first shot.
I don't know what the problem was with the coup de gras.
I guess the guide was pointing to the wrong part of the head or something.
It's why head shots are a bad idea until the animal is down.
As for people like me being nuts, you may want to be careful using that term. If I'm not mistaken, you have a few issues of your own that afflict you.
-- Edited by Maddog on Saturday 1st of May 2021 06:40:42 PM
I never even thought about you - I was referring to mindless slaughter not hunting deer for meat.
The ranchers would be well compensated for any (miniscule) losses they may suffer.
Oh and anyone who wants to murder an endangered species after decades of conservation in the state brought them back from the brink (the wolves) or wants to shoot an elephant for bragging rights is a grade A arsehole in my opinion.
Hunting wolves wouldn't be mindless slaughter.
It would be the same as hunting elephants. Managed based on the number of animals in a given area. You can't just relocate animals. Many of them die in the process.
Hunting is an important tool in the conservation process, regardless of if you eat what you hunt.
There wouldn't be any need for conservation if not for humans. Nature balances itself. We destroy it, mend it, destroy it, mend it...
Nature has been destroying species since forever.
Every disease known to man is part of nature.
I'm ok with man fighting nature when it tries to destroy things..
And I like air conditioning, even if nature might not.
We are the stewards of this planet and are doing a fucking awful job.
I will be honest now at the risk of seeming some sort of poncing 'nancy' boy MD.
How can you shoot a living being to kill it and and sleep?
Just wondering.
No cheap shots.
Same way you eat them, minus the hypocrisy.
Do you eat everything you kill?
Digger said
May 3 2:53 PM, 2021
Syl wrote:
There is a big difference in rearing and killing animals for food and killing them for sport and pleasure. I think whether you eat meat or not you can distinguish between the two.
I don't have a problem if people kill humanely to eat. But I do have a problem with the fur trade and killing for kicks The biggest lie from a human mouth is 'We kill to preserve". If that was the case, then go cull the massive human populations that cause famine, poverty and disease.
Wolves mate for life. Just like most humans do. Animals grieve like humans. They feel pain and stress and fear. Yes, we are custodians of this planet and all the life on it, and look what we're doing to it. Animals have no voice. It's up to us to speak out for them.
Here in the UK it's just been made law that animal cruelty now means 5 years in prison.
Digger said
May 3 3:00 PM, 2021
Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
The gun nuts will be slobbering all over this a wonderful excuse for mindless slaughter.
-- Edited by John Doe on Saturday 1st of May 2021 01:56:04 AM
Can't read the first article because I'm not a member, but predator control is usually supported by folks who raise livestock. Hunters are usually happy to oblige. I know when I hunted on ranch land the owners always asked us to kill coyotes. I rarely did because I was there to hunt deer.
I watched the video of Wayne. He dropped the elephant on the first shot.
I don't know what the problem was with the coup de gras.
I guess the guide was pointing to the wrong part of the head or something.
It's why head shots are a bad idea until the animal is down.
As for people like me being nuts, you may want to be careful using that term. If I'm not mistaken, you have a few issues of your own that afflict you.
-- Edited by Maddog on Saturday 1st of May 2021 06:40:42 PM
I never even thought about you - I was referring to mindless slaughter not hunting deer for meat.
The ranchers would be well compensated for any (miniscule) losses they may suffer.
Oh and anyone who wants to murder an endangered species after decades of conservation in the state brought them back from the brink (the wolves) or wants to shoot an elephant for bragging rights is a grade A arsehole in my opinion.
Hunting wolves wouldn't be mindless slaughter.
It would be the same as hunting elephants. Managed based on the number of animals in a given area. You can't just relocate animals. Many of them die in the process.
Hunting is an important tool in the conservation process, regardless of if you eat what you hunt.
There wouldn't be any need for conservation if not for humans. Nature balances itself. We destroy it, mend it, destroy it, mend it...
Nature has been destroying species since forever.
Every disease known to man is part of nature.
I'm ok with man fighting nature when it tries to destroy things..
And I like air conditioning, even if nature might not.
What has any of that to do with killing for kicks? I suspect that even those who claim to shoot animals in order to 'preserve' the species, etc, still enjoy it. If they didn't why not find some other way to save the species. Fox Hunters' most popular halloo is "We're preserving nature!". We all know that's a pile of steaming shit.
-- Edited by Digger on Monday 3rd of May 2021 03:02:40 PM
Maddog said
May 3 3:58 PM, 2021
Animals are killed for a myriad of reasons, and people like me.enjoy hunting them. Now wanton destruction isn't a good or legal reason. It's why there are well designed laws saying what can be killed and when.
I also enjoy catching a few fish. If they are legal and tasty, I'll eat them. If they are not ill throw them back.
I have zero qualms or remorse about being the predator at the top of the food chain.
Just like the bear that ate a woman in Colorado a few days ago spent zero time worrying about her actions.
Maddog said
May 3 4:22 PM, 2021
Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
The gun nuts will be slobbering all over this a wonderful excuse for mindless slaughter.
-- Edited by John Doe on Saturday 1st of May 2021 01:56:04 AM
Can't read the first article because I'm not a member, but predator control is usually supported by folks who raise livestock. Hunters are usually happy to oblige. I know when I hunted on ranch land the owners always asked us to kill coyotes. I rarely did because I was there to hunt deer.
I watched the video of Wayne. He dropped the elephant on the first shot.
I don't know what the problem was with the coup de gras.
I guess the guide was pointing to the wrong part of the head or something.
It's why head shots are a bad idea until the animal is down.
As for people like me being nuts, you may want to be careful using that term. If I'm not mistaken, you have a few issues of your own that afflict you.
-- Edited by Maddog on Saturday 1st of May 2021 06:40:42 PM
I never even thought about you - I was referring to mindless slaughter not hunting deer for meat.
The ranchers would be well compensated for any (miniscule) losses they may suffer.
Oh and anyone who wants to murder an endangered species after decades of conservation in the state brought them back from the brink (the wolves) or wants to shoot an elephant for bragging rights is a grade A arsehole in my opinion.
Hunting wolves wouldn't be mindless slaughter.
It would be the same as hunting elephants. Managed based on the number of animals in a given area. You can't just relocate animals. Many of them die in the process.
Hunting is an important tool in the conservation process, regardless of if you eat what you hunt.
There wouldn't be any need for conservation if not for humans. Nature balances itself. We destroy it, mend it, destroy it, mend it...
Nature has been destroying species since forever.
Every disease known to man is part of nature.
I'm ok with man fighting nature when it tries to destroy things..
And I like air conditioning, even if nature might not.
We are the stewards of this planet and are doing a fucking awful job.
I will be honest now at the risk of seeming some sort of poncing 'nancy' boy MD.
How can you shoot a living being to kill it and and sleep?
Just wondering.
No cheap shots.
Same way you eat them, minus the hypocrisy.
Do you eat everything you kill?
Everything I kill is legal to kill. I don't shoot birds that aren't edible. I have shot a few coyotes and I don't eat those, but for the most part I shoot things to eat. Fox hunting isn't really.a thing here. Looks like it might be fun, but it's not really an effective way to control fox numbers. Not in the way its done over there.
My point is that animals are killed for a myriad of reasons including because we like eating them, and one reason isn't necessarily more moral than another.
I think once you cross that line you lose the ability to judge people for killing animals, unless that killing is going to harm a predetermined goal for that species, in that area (poaching).
While it's sorta unfair in a sense, I understand that a rhino has to be protected, while a wildebeest doesnt. I have issues with people who poach rhinos, not because I have issues with hunting and killing animals, but I have problems with wiping out a species over stupid beliefs.
Conversely, the idea that a few million animals are killed every day to keep McDonalds and KFC going strong doesn't bother me a bit. We're not about to run out of cows or chickens because humans know how to harvest and protect animals when we want to. Especially, when we take the emotion out of it.
Maddog said
May 3 4:30 PM, 2021
Anonymous wrote:
I bloody love you MD. You always see through the BS, you aim and fire without ever being nasty. The world needs more like you right now.
I don't know if we need too many more of me.. 😉
JD is scientifically oriented with his interests about nature and wildlife, but lets emotion override what is plainly a great deal of knowledge. While I don't think he's an eco-terrorist, he gives off that sort of vibe at times when he gets passionate. Except he's not a vegan, unless he's changed his ways recently.
If your dead, you're dead. Animals don't know why their being killed. It's up to us to have some sort of plan as to why certain animals can be killed, and others can't.
Anonymous said
May 3 6:08 PM, 2021
'm sure not to0 long into the future despising your own species will be seen as a mental disorder and where did the arrogance of stewardship of the known universe come from?
-- Edited by Syl on Monday 3rd of May 2021 07:39:26 PM
Syl said
May 3 7:41 PM, 2021
Sorry... I pressed edit instead of quote. /\
Everything is seen as a mental disorder nowadays, it used to be called 'individuality'.
Digger said
May 3 8:21 PM, 2021
Maddog wrote:
Animals are killed for a myriad of reasons, and people like me.enjoy hunting them. Now wanton destruction isn't a good or legal reason. It's why there are well designed laws saying what can be killed and when.
I also enjoy catching a few fish. If they are legal and tasty, I'll eat them. If they are not ill throw them back.
I have zero qualms or remorse about being the predator at the top of the food chain.
Just like the bear that ate a woman in Colorado a few days ago spent zero time worrying about her actions.
You can't compare a bear's intelligence with yours. There's no comparison. Except you look kinda cuddly.
Digger said
May 3 8:26 PM, 2021
Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I bloody love you MD. You always see through the BS, you aim and fire without ever being nasty. The world needs more like you right now.
I don't know if we need too many more of me.. 😉
JD is scientifically oriented with his interests about nature and wildlife, but lets emotion override what is plainly a great deal of knowledge. While I don't think he's an eco-terrorist, he gives off that sort of vibe at times when he gets passionate. Except he's not a vegan, unless he's changed his ways recently.
If your dead, you're dead. Animals don't know why their being killed. It's up to us to have some sort of plan as to why certain animals can be killed, and others can't.
Babies don't know why they're being killed. Does that mean we should emotionally detach from that? If we need to eat, then we have to kill. I get that. But why kill for the hell of it? That I don't get. A fox hunt or stag hunt is vile. The terror suffered by the chase is horrific. Same with bull fighting. Animals are sentient. Like us. So don't you think it's up to us to ensure that if we have to kill them it's done with as little stress as possible? Was it you said don't do a head shot until the animal is down? That's causing suffering, surely?
The Bluntnose sixgill is one of the least known animals on the planet and they are truly massive predators, their sheer bulk in the vid when crashing into the sub is awesome.
Actually, places like Hong Kong have managed to strike a pretty good balance.
And let's be honest, only Apes like you care about wolves. They don't care about your survival. So the Apes have some qualities that none of the other organisms on this planet have..
There wouldn't be any need for conservation if not for humans. Nature balances itself. We destroy it, mend it, destroy it, mend it...
We are nature.
Nature has been destroying species since forever.
Every disease known to man is part of nature.
I'm ok with man fighting nature when it tries to destroy things..
And I like air conditioning, even if nature might not.
We are the stewards of this planet and are doing a fucking awful job.
I will be honest now at the risk of seeming some sort of poncing 'nancy' boy MD.
How can you shoot a living being to kill it and and sleep?
Just wondering.
No cheap shots.
Same way you eat them, minus the hypocrisy.
I bloody love you MD. You always see through the BS, you aim and fire without ever being nasty. The world needs more like you right now.
I think whether you eat meat or not you can distinguish between the two.
of the worst kind.
Do you eat everything you kill?
I don't have a problem if people kill humanely to eat. But I do have a problem with the fur trade and killing for kicks The biggest lie from a human mouth is 'We kill to preserve". If that was the case, then go cull the massive human populations that cause famine, poverty and disease.
Wolves mate for life. Just like most humans do. Animals grieve like humans. They feel pain and stress and fear. Yes, we are custodians of this planet and all the life on it, and look what we're doing to it. Animals have no voice. It's up to us to speak out for them.
Here in the UK it's just been made law that animal cruelty now means 5 years in prison.
What has any of that to do with killing for kicks? I suspect that even those who claim to shoot animals in order to 'preserve' the species, etc, still enjoy it. If they didn't why not find some other way to save the species. Fox Hunters' most popular halloo is "We're preserving nature!". We all know that's a pile of steaming shit.
-- Edited by Digger on Monday 3rd of May 2021 03:02:40 PM
I also enjoy catching a few fish. If they are legal and tasty, I'll eat them. If they are not ill throw them back.
I have zero qualms or remorse about being the predator at the top of the food chain.
Just like the bear that ate a woman in Colorado a few days ago spent zero time worrying about her actions.
Everything I kill is legal to kill. I don't shoot birds that aren't edible. I have shot a few coyotes and I don't eat those, but for the most part I shoot things to eat. Fox hunting isn't really.a thing here. Looks like it might be fun, but it's not really an effective way to control fox numbers. Not in the way its done over there.
My point is that animals are killed for a myriad of reasons including because we like eating them, and one reason isn't necessarily more moral than another.
I think once you cross that line you lose the ability to judge people for killing animals, unless that killing is going to harm a predetermined goal for that species, in that area (poaching).
While it's sorta unfair in a sense, I understand that a rhino has to be protected, while a wildebeest doesnt. I have issues with people who poach rhinos, not because I have issues with hunting and killing animals, but I have problems with wiping out a species over stupid beliefs.
Conversely, the idea that a few million animals are killed every day to keep McDonalds and KFC going strong doesn't bother me a bit. We're not about to run out of cows or chickens because humans know how to harvest and protect animals when we want to. Especially, when we take the emotion out of it.
I don't know if we need too many more of me.. 😉
JD is scientifically oriented with his interests about nature and wildlife, but lets emotion override what is plainly a great deal of knowledge. While I don't think he's an eco-terrorist, he gives off that sort of vibe at times when he gets passionate. Except he's not a vegan, unless he's changed his ways recently.
If your dead, you're dead. Animals don't know why their being killed. It's up to us to have some sort of plan as to why certain animals can be killed, and others can't.
'm sure not to0 long into the future despising your own species will be seen as a mental disorder and where did the arrogance of stewardship of the known universe come from?
-- Edited by Syl on Monday 3rd of May 2021 07:39:26 PM
Everything is seen as a mental disorder nowadays, it used to be called 'individuality'.
You can't compare a bear's intelligence with yours. There's no comparison. Except you look kinda cuddly.
Babies don't know why they're being killed. Does that mean we should emotionally detach from that? If we need to eat, then we have to kill. I get that. But why kill for the hell of it? That I don't get. A fox hunt or stag hunt is vile. The terror suffered by the chase is horrific. Same with bull fighting. Animals are sentient. Like us. So don't you think it's up to us to ensure that if we have to kill them it's done with as little stress as possible? Was it you said don't do a head shot until the animal is down? That's causing suffering, surely?