I don't think it works like that. When you paid in it didn't go into your own private lifetime pot, it went into a communal pot that covered everyone's health care at the time. Now your care is being funded by everyone who's currently making contributions.
Correct, none of these government schemes work like that. You pay now, to support the older folks now..
When it's your turn to tap into those funds, you hope there are an even larger group paying in to support you.
It's a ponzi scheme that is collapsing around the western world in varying degrees because the population is getting top heavy with folks over 60.
The young folks didn't crank out enough babies/workers to keep the scheme growing..
This week, Xi's government was bashing women for not making more babies.
Remember when they were killing female babies as late as 20 years ago?
This is how the NHS has always worked from it's launch in 1948.
it was based on three core principles: 1. That it meet the needs of everyone. 2. That it be free at the point of delivery. 3. That it be based on clinical need, not ability to pay.
Maddog said
Jan 4 5:55 PM, 2024
SF wrote:
Maddog wrote:
SF wrote:
Maddog wrote:
This is what happens when you make your medical professionals government employees and allow government employees to organize against the citizens they are supposed to serve..
I went to the doctor a month ago.
I sat down and was seen within 5 minutes..
A nurse took me to get my vitals taken amd then took me to a room.
My doctor came in in about 3 minutes and we talked about my health for about 20.
I was directed to another room where my blood was drawn immediately..
Then I was taken for x rays of my knee and shoulder..
After that I walked out the door and said thanks..
All of this took one hour and they billed my insurance..
Is my insurance expensive?
Yes, and I believe well worth it.
I’ve got private health insurance via work and I’ve used it once in 10 years.
Yes, it was very quick and very thorough.
But why is your insurance so expensive ? It’s because the doctors, once they know they have an insurance patient, will add each and every test and treatment they can get away with, as it is one big cash cow.
You can glorify it as much as you like, but the fundamental point is you need to be able to afford it. If you can’t, you are abandoned in the US. That is not the sort of society I want to live in.
Insurance companies will challenge unnecessary tests.
My insurance is expensive because quality care, quickly, provided by medical professionals who are highly paid isn't cheap.
I don't even know what a Junior Doctor is, but the wages I'm reading on this post are less than most of our nurses.
As for being left behind, we have government paid for Healthcare for the poor amd subsidies for those with lower incomes.
The difference is, for most people, healthcare isn't provided by government workers.
It's provided by a private provider, either being paid by the consumer, an insurance company or the government..or a mixture of the three.
Canada is facing the same problems as the UK, because they have the same system..
I'm sure Europe has problems too, but they have private medicine funded by a mixture of insurance and government ..
So what is the healthcare experience of those with no access to insurance in the US?
If you mean they can't afford it this us the program in place.
https://www.medicaid.gov/about-us/index.html
Now, if you aren't poor and choose to go without insurance (its optional here) , you can find yourself at the mercy of a county hospital run by our local governments.
We still have a lot of folks who take this route too.
The care there can be great, or not so great..
Amd of course once you hit 65, Medicare takes over, which is private care funded by tax dollars.
Maddog said
Jan 4 6:02 PM, 2024
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Syl wrote:
We were promised free health care from birth to death....and that is what we have paid in for.....
I don't think it works like that. When you paid in it didn't go into your own private lifetime pot, it went into a communal pot that covered everyone's health care at the time. Now your care is being funded by everyone who's currently making contributions.
Correct, none of these government schemes work like that. You pay now, to support the older folks now..
When it's your turn to tap into those funds, you hope there are an even larger group paying in to support you.
It's a ponzi scheme that is collapsing around the western world in varying degrees because the population is getting top heavy with folks over 60.
The young folks didn't crank out enough babies/workers to keep the scheme growing..
This week, Xi's government was bashing women for not making more babies.
Remember when they were killing female babies as late as 20 years ago?
This is how the NHS has always worked from it's launch in 1948.
it was based on three core principles: 1. That it meet the needs of everyone. 2. That it be free at the point of delivery. 3. That it be based on clinical need, not ability to pay.
Yes it worked..
But make no mistake that people from around the globe said it would eventually collapse because of malfeasance, corruption, malaise and every other negative aspect known to afflict large government programs with centralized control.
That's why you and Canada are the only two countries outside of Cuba, N Korea and Venezuela that i can think of with a similar system.
Politicians promise all sorts of things to pander to voters.
Now, I don't know exactly how accurate the above link is, but I don't think that graph would look anything like that in the UK.
Maybe it did at one point.
I think most people aren't as price sensitive when we are talking about life and death matters in terms of health.
Americans have been told ad infinitum how expensive our care is.
Many of us our happy with more expensive care that provides excellent service.
With 20% of all Brits now having a BUPA or similar policy, it appears many of you feel the same way.
Because when it's the life of your child or spouse on the line, being reminded that their care is relatively cheaper than other parts of the world, and provided by a more "equal" system, doesn't mean shit.
"Terence Graham has been waiting anxiously for weeks to receive urgent CT scan results after experiencing "noticeable swelling" in the back of his head that gave him "blinding headaches."
The 55-year-old Canadian Forces veteran, who lives in Laird, Ont., about 40 kilometres southeast of Sault Ste. Marie, said he was checked out at the local emergency department on July 27. Not only did it take nearly three weeks to get the scan, he says he's since been unable to get the results.
The findings of a new Angus Reid Institute poll conducted in Canada and the U.S. in August suggest Canadians are significantly less satisfied with their access to health care than their American neighbours.
Graham is not surprised.
His family doctor left town in 2020, so in order to get his results, he has to make an appointment with what's known as a locum — a doctor who temporarily comes into northern and rural areas of the province where there is a lack of physicians. He was due to see a doctor Tuesday but said the appointment was cancelled. If and when he can get another appointment, Graham says the physician likely won't be familiar with his medical history.
He told CBC News he has friends in the U.S. who brag about their health care, even though it may come with a cost.
"It's a sad state of affairs if that's the common belief that we have as Canadians now," he said. "That's the belief that I have right now." "
jackthelad said
Jan 4 11:09 PM, 2024
American reacts to The Worlds Best Healthcare Systems
Syl said
Jan 4 11:11 PM, 2024
Maddog wrote:
Now, I don't know exactly how accurate the above link is, but I don't think that graph would look anything like that in the UK.
Maybe it did at one point.
I think most people aren't as price sensitive when we are talking about life and death matters in terms of health.
Americans have been told ad infinitum how expensive our care is.
Many of us our happy with more expensive care that provides excellent service.
With 20% of all Brits now having a BUPA or similar policy, it appears many of you feel the same way.
Because when it's the life of your child or spouse on the line, being reminded that their care is relatively cheaper than other parts of the world, and provided by a more "equal" system, doesn't mean shit.
We can choose to be seen privately without paying yearly insurance if we want to. For eg my OH was seen privately a few years ago when he needed quicker care than if he had gone on an NHS waiting list....if we can pay we have the choice.
In general hospital, especially emergency hospital treatment is good on the NHS.
The main problems seem to be centred round GP services and waiting time for none urgent appointments.
The bottom line is there are too many people here demanding free health care, and too much red tape within the organisation ,add to that a Tory government that seems dedicated to easing out the NHS, and it's not surprising we have problems.
jackthelad said
Jan 4 11:15 PM, 2024
As for we can't afford decent pay for our nurses and doctors it might have something to do with us throwing billions at whatever war we're interested in at any given time. It might have something to do with the billions in subsidies we've been throwing at wind farms and continuing to do so. It might have something to do with the more than ten ̶b̶i̶l̶l̶i̶o̶n̶ million quid a day we spend housing illegal people. The amount is going up as traditional seaside holiday camps are closing their doors to the public and taking in near two thousand illegals at a time time 365 days of the year.There seems to be many billions of your quids spent on shit you have no say over and probably don't want spending in the first place.
Edited.
-- Edited by jackthelad on Friday 5th of January 2024 11:51:08 AM
Maddog said
Jan 5 1:26 AM, 2024
jackthelad wrote:
American reacts to The Worlds Best Healthcare Systems
I don't doubt there are other health care systems that keep their folks relatively pleased.
I'm just saying the two nationalized countries (UK and Canada) aren't two of them..
Maddog said
Jan 5 1:30 AM, 2024
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Now, I don't know exactly how accurate the above link is, but I don't think that graph would look anything like that in the UK.
Maybe it did at one point.
I think most people aren't as price sensitive when we are talking about life and death matters in terms of health.
Americans have been told ad infinitum how expensive our care is.
Many of us our happy with more expensive care that provides excellent service.
With 20% of all Brits now having a BUPA or similar policy, it appears many of you feel the same way.
Because when it's the life of your child or spouse on the line, being reminded that their care is relatively cheaper than other parts of the world, and provided by a more "equal" system, doesn't mean shit.
We can choose to be seen privately without paying yearly insurance if we want to. For eg my OH was seen privately a few years ago when he needed quicker care than if he had gone on an NHS waiting list....if we can pay we have the choice.
In general hospital, especially emergency hospital treatment is good on the NHS.
The main problems seem to be centred round GP services and waiting time for none urgent appointments.
The bottom line is there are too many people here demanding free health care, and too much red tape within the organisation ,add to that a Tory government that seems dedicated to easing out the NHS, and it's not surprising we have problems.
You're problem isn't too many people.
Your system is predicated on a growing population to fund these programs. Its a ponzi scheme that requires more and more people paying into it. Your not making enough new Brits so you have to import them..
And the Canadians have the same problem you do, with a much different government..
The problem is systemic..
Anonymous said
Jan 5 10:50 AM, 2024
jackthelad wrote:
... It might have something to do with the billions in subsidies we've been throwing at wind farms and continuing to do so...
Nice try!
Syl said
Jan 5 11:27 AM, 2024
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Now, I don't know exactly how accurate the above link is, but I don't think that graph would look anything like that in the UK.
Maybe it did at one point.
I think most people aren't as price sensitive when we are talking about life and death matters in terms of health.
Americans have been told ad infinitum how expensive our care is.
Many of us our happy with more expensive care that provides excellent service.
With 20% of all Brits now having a BUPA or similar policy, it appears many of you feel the same way.
Because when it's the life of your child or spouse on the line, being reminded that their care is relatively cheaper than other parts of the world, and provided by a more "equal" system, doesn't mean shit.
We can choose to be seen privately without paying yearly insurance if we want to. For eg my OH was seen privately a few years ago when he needed quicker care than if he had gone on an NHS waiting list....if we can pay we have the choice.
In general hospital, especially emergency hospital treatment is good on the NHS.
The main problems seem to be centred round GP services and waiting time for none urgent appointments.
The bottom line is there are too many people here demanding free health care, and too much red tape within the organisation ,add to that a Tory government that seems dedicated to easing out the NHS, and it's not surprising we have problems.
You're problem isn't too many people.
Your system is predicated on a growing population to fund these programs. Its a ponzi scheme that requires more and more people paying into it. Your not making enough new Brits so you have to import them..
And the Canadians have the same problem you do, with a much different government..
The problem is systemic..
One of the biggest problems the NHS has now is too many people demanding the services.
Walk into my local hospital, or the main hospitals in Manchester, and the overwhelming number of patients waiting to be seen, will be immigrants, often newly arrived, judging by the amount needing translators.
I dont know if Canadians have the same problems, I can only speak for England, and given that I live here, see, hear and experience what I am saying....I find that more accurate that taking as gospel someone elses view of a situation.
SF said
Jan 5 11:46 AM, 2024
Just read that medical insurance is so expensive in the US due to the high chance of being shot whilst going to buy a bag of potatoes or going to pick the kids up from school.
Syl said
Jan 5 11:48 AM, 2024
Maddog, one more thing. Generally in the US your health relies on your bank balance, you pay expensive insurance and you get a good service.
But what about the millions who can't afford it?
Here, there have been debates about people who have to choose between eating or heating, but it's taken for granted if a person needs medical care, they will be seen and treated.
Dentistry here can be quite expensive even though it's subsidised by the NHS, many people can't afford to get regular health checks for their teeth.
I dread to think how these people would cope if they couldn't afford to see a Dr, or had a car accident, or needed urgent medical care for an unexpected illness.
jackthelad said
Jan 5 11:48 AM, 2024
A major problem is old people.
I'm one of them my wife is another and we both have multiple health problems.
I'm forever reading about how bad NHS Wales is but haven't seen it.
Once I've seen a hospital specialist I can phone his secretary instead of going through my GP and so far I think it's been a fortnight at most to get a consultation and then maybe a week for a scan.
X-rays are more or less the same day whether ordered by consultant or GP.
There are cottage hospitals all over the place which take a lot of strain off the big hospitals.
jackthelad said
Jan 5 11:51 AM, 2024
Anonymous wrote:
jackthelad wrote:
... It might have something to do with the billions in subsidies we've been throwing at wind farms and continuing to do so...
Nice try!
You have a problem with that?
-- Edited by jackthelad on Friday 5th of January 2024 11:52:11 AM
Syl said
Jan 5 11:52 AM, 2024
jackthelad wrote:
A major problem is old people. I'm one of them my wife is another and we both have multiple health problems. I'm forever reading about how bad NHS Wales is but haven't seen it. Once I've seen a hospital specialist I can phone his secretary instead of going through my GP and so far I think it's been a fortnight at most to get a consultation and then maybe a week for a scan. X-rays are more or less the same day whether ordered by consultant or GP. There are cottage hospitals all over the place which take a lot of strain off the big hospitals.
I spent loads of time in Wales as you know.
I only needed to go to a hospital once when I had a severe reaction to a wasp sting. I went without appointment to a little cottage hospital, was treated within an hour, left with advice and medication even though I wasn't a Welsh resident....no problem.
Syl said
Jan 5 12:02 PM, 2024
However, getting back to the OP....I doubt many in England and Wales will be sailing through arranged appointments now and in the coming weeks, due to the junior doctors strike, no doubt followed by senior Dr's and consultants, as happened last year.
"Thousands of doctors walked off their jobs in Britain on Wednesday, the start of a six-day strike over pay that was set to be the longest in the history of the state-funded National Health Service.
Managers said tens of thousands scheduled appointments and operations will be canceled during the walkout across England and Wales by junior doctors, those in the first years of their careers. The doctors, who form the backbone of hospital and clinic care, plan to stay off the job until 7 a.m. on Tuesday."
This is how the NHS has always worked from it's launch in 1948.
it was based on three core principles: 1. That it meet the needs of everyone. 2. That it be free at the point of delivery. 3. That it be based on clinical need, not ability to pay.
If you mean they can't afford it this us the program in place.
https://www.medicaid.gov/about-us/index.html
Now, if you aren't poor and choose to go without insurance (its optional here) , you can find yourself at the mercy of a county hospital run by our local governments.
We still have a lot of folks who take this route too.
The care there can be great, or not so great..
Amd of course once you hit 65, Medicare takes over, which is private care funded by tax dollars.
Yes it worked..
But make no mistake that people from around the globe said it would eventually collapse because of malfeasance, corruption, malaise and every other negative aspect known to afflict large government programs with centralized control.
That's why you and Canada are the only two countries outside of Cuba, N Korea and Venezuela that i can think of with a similar system.
Politicians promise all sorts of things to pander to voters.
Maybe it did at one point.
I think most people aren't as price sensitive when we are talking about life and death matters in terms of health.
Americans have been told ad infinitum how expensive our care is.
Many of us our happy with more expensive care that provides excellent service.
With 20% of all Brits now having a BUPA or similar policy, it appears many of you feel the same way.
Because when it's the life of your child or spouse on the line, being reminded that their care is relatively cheaper than other parts of the world, and provided by a more "equal" system, doesn't mean shit.
From the above link.
"Terence Graham has been waiting anxiously for weeks to receive urgent CT scan results after experiencing "noticeable swelling" in the back of his head that gave him "blinding headaches."
The 55-year-old Canadian Forces veteran, who lives in Laird, Ont., about 40 kilometres southeast of Sault Ste. Marie, said he was checked out at the local emergency department on July 27. Not only did it take nearly three weeks to get the scan, he says he's since been unable to get the results.
The findings of a new Angus Reid Institute poll conducted in Canada and the U.S. in August suggest Canadians are significantly less satisfied with their access to health care than their American neighbours.
Graham is not surprised.
His family doctor left town in 2020, so in order to get his results, he has to make an appointment with what's known as a locum — a doctor who temporarily comes into northern and rural areas of the province where there is a lack of physicians. He was due to see a doctor Tuesday but said the appointment was cancelled. If and when he can get another appointment, Graham says the physician likely won't be familiar with his medical history.
He told CBC News he has friends in the U.S. who brag about their health care, even though it may come with a cost.
"It's a sad state of affairs if that's the common belief that we have as Canadians now," he said. "That's the belief that I have right now." "
American reacts to The Worlds Best Healthcare Systems
We can choose to be seen privately without paying yearly insurance if we want to. For eg my OH was seen privately a few years ago when he needed quicker care than if he had gone on an NHS waiting list....if we can pay we have the choice.
In general hospital, especially emergency hospital treatment is good on the NHS.
The main problems seem to be centred round GP services and waiting time for none urgent appointments.
The bottom line is there are too many people here demanding free health care, and too much red tape within the organisation ,add to that a Tory government that seems dedicated to easing out the NHS, and it's not surprising we have problems.
As for we can't afford decent pay for our nurses and doctors it might have something to do with us throwing billions at whatever war we're interested in at any given time.
It might have something to do with the billions in subsidies we've been throwing at wind farms and continuing to do so.
It might have something to do with the more than ten ̶b̶i̶l̶l̶i̶o̶n̶ million quid a day we spend housing illegal people.
The amount is going up as traditional seaside holiday camps are closing their doors to the public and taking in near two thousand illegals at a time time 365 days of the year.There seems to be many billions of your quids spent on shit you have no say over and probably don't want spending in the first place.
Edited.
-- Edited by jackthelad on Friday 5th of January 2024 11:51:08 AM
I don't doubt there are other health care systems that keep their folks relatively pleased.
I'm just saying the two nationalized countries (UK and Canada) aren't two of them..
You're problem isn't too many people.
Your system is predicated on a growing population to fund these programs. Its a ponzi scheme that requires more and more people paying into it. Your not making enough new Brits so you have to import them..
And the Canadians have the same problem you do, with a much different government..
The problem is systemic..
Nice try!
One of the biggest problems the NHS has now is too many people demanding the services.
Walk into my local hospital, or the main hospitals in Manchester, and the overwhelming number of patients waiting to be seen, will be immigrants, often newly arrived, judging by the amount needing translators.
I dont know if Canadians have the same problems, I can only speak for England, and given that I live here, see, hear and experience what I am saying....I find that more accurate that taking as gospel someone elses view of a situation.
Just read that medical insurance is so expensive in the US due to the high chance of being shot whilst going to buy a bag of potatoes or going to pick the kids up from school.
But what about the millions who can't afford it?
Here, there have been debates about people who have to choose between eating or heating, but it's taken for granted if a person needs medical care, they will be seen and treated.
Dentistry here can be quite expensive even though it's subsidised by the NHS, many people can't afford to get regular health checks for their teeth.
I dread to think how these people would cope if they couldn't afford to see a Dr, or had a car accident, or needed urgent medical care for an unexpected illness.
I'm one of them my wife is another and we both have multiple health problems.
I'm forever reading about how bad NHS Wales is but haven't seen it.
Once I've seen a hospital specialist I can phone his secretary instead of going through my GP and so far I think it's been a fortnight at most to get a consultation and then maybe a week for a scan.
X-rays are more or less the same day whether ordered by consultant or GP.
There are cottage hospitals all over the place which take a lot of strain off the big hospitals.
You have a problem with that?
-- Edited by jackthelad on Friday 5th of January 2024 11:52:11 AM
I spent loads of time in Wales as you know.
I only needed to go to a hospital once when I had a severe reaction to a wasp sting. I went without appointment to a little cottage hospital, was treated within an hour, left with advice and medication even though I wasn't a Welsh resident....no problem.
However, getting back to the OP....I doubt many in England and Wales will be sailing through arranged appointments now and in the coming weeks, due to the junior doctors strike, no doubt followed by senior Dr's and consultants, as happened last year.
"Thousands of doctors walked off their jobs in Britain on Wednesday, the start of a six-day strike over pay that was set to be the longest in the history of the state-funded National Health Service.
Managers said tens of thousands scheduled appointments and operations will be canceled during the walkout across England and Wales by junior doctors, those in the first years of their careers. The doctors, who form the backbone of hospital and clinic care, plan to stay off the job until 7 a.m. on Tuesday."