Have to admit I'm not totally up to speed with this, so it leaves me with some questions
If I have it right the ruling says that sex is binary and based on your gender at birth.
So you're either male or female.
But how about someone born male but who has had reassignment surgery and now has physical female parts.
Would that person now be defined as a woman, if not, what would they be in law?
Hoping someone more au fait with this stuff can help clarify
They are still male. Cosmetically changing body parts doesn’t change your sex, no matter how many bits you add or subtract.
Magica said
Apr 16 4:58 PM, 2025
I'm glad the Courts have finally ruled, men are not women. Blatantly obvious!🙄
Anonymous said
Apr 16 5:05 PM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
I'm not sure the majority of trans women are doing it just to intrude on the privacy of biological women. Obviously men in floral skirts with beards and a smirk are up to no good and are not genuine trans women. But I agree with a post syl made earlier. The ppl of both sexes who have struggled all their lives Feeling they are in the wrong body are genuine and go through much distress. They deserve some sympathy imo. They go through terribly painful operations and live in desperate isolation just to feel relatively normal. They are not biological women and should not be referred to as such, butnor do they deserve to be tarnished with the same brush as the men with a twisted mindset.
But the trans community have been insisting for years that they are 100% women and more feminine in many cases (yeah I know ) and have demanded they should be referred to and treated as such - even the balding ones with beards. They insist they get periods, experience PMS, demand access to female health care etc. The trans community and their rabid “activists” have both caused the situation and the subsequent ruling.
The general public is not to blame here, the trans community itself is. A genuine trans should be addressing and making their voice heard if they don’t like how they’re being treated just as women have had to do.
Red Okktober said
Apr 16 6:36 PM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
To the Anon wondering about males who look female and have had 'the op' so to speak I too am confused about their status. What prison would they go to? It would have to be a women's as they have female genitalia and sending them to a male prison would cause chaos. From what I can ascertain trans women who have had the necessary operations and look like women are going to be recognised as trans women in law but NOT women. I think the previous ruling removed that distinction. I feel for genuine trans women as they really feel trapped in the wrong body and struggle so much just to feel normal. But they were born as men and do not have the inner organs of women therefore they cannot be recognised as biological women, as they are not. It will have implications for trans ladies in sports but I think that is a necessary change tbh as trans women were beating all of the biological women by quite some margin! There has been backlash from the Trans community which is inevitable but unfair imo and lacks insight.
Trans women should always have been recognised as trans women - because that is what they are!
Masquerading as actual real women was never going to work, and it hasn't. The huge majority of them aren't fooling anyone anyway.
I've always been for specialist trans prisons and specialist trans sports - The Trans Olympics for example.
It will take time, but will settle down with that time, just as homosexuality is now recognised as being 'normal' or at least not abnormal by most people.
The public will accept trans woman far more readily if they stop pretending to be something that they are not.
Digger said
Apr 16 6:48 PM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
Have to admit I'm not totally up to speed with this, so it leaves me with some questions
If I have it right the ruling says that sex is binary and based on your gender at birth.
So you're either male or female.
But how about someone born male but who has had reassignment surgery and now has physical female parts.
Would that person now be defined as a woman, if not, what would they be in law?
Hoping someone more au fait with this stuff can help clarify
I suspect the majority of trans who are genuine would utterly respect a biological woman's need for single sex spaces. It's the twisted pervs who like to strut around in those private spaces with their dicks out dressed in women's clothes that are the problem. Along with the ones who think they can push women aside in other ways e.g. sports.
I'm ok with genuine trans. But don't tell me what it's like to live as a woman. From an early age we have to run the gauntlet of male interest, some of it very negative and threatening. Some of us have been abused, raped, conditioned, controlled, subjugated by men and male toxicity. When we say we want private safe spaces, we're earned that right. It's ours. Non-negotiable.
Digger said
Apr 16 6:52 PM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
To the Anon wondering about males who look female and have had 'the op' so to speak I too am confused about their status. What prison would they go to? It would have to be a women's as they have female genitalia and sending them to a male prison would cause chaos. From what I can ascertain trans women who have had the necessary operations and look like women are going to be recognised as trans women in law but NOT women. I think the previous ruling removed that distinction. I feel for genuine trans women as they really feel trapped in the wrong body and struggle so much just to feel normal. But they were born as men and do not have the inner organs of women therefore they cannot be recognised as biological women, as they are not. It will have implications for trans ladies in sports but I think that is a necessary change tbh as trans women were beating all of the biological women by quite some margin! There has been backlash from the Trans community which is inevitable but unfair imo and lacks insight.
You go to prison to be punished for doing wrong. Who cares if they have a hard time in prison. Don't break the fucking law then.
Digger said
Apr 16 6:58 PM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
I'm not sure the majority of trans women are doing it just to intrude on the privacy of biological women. Obviously men in floral skirts with beards and a smirk are up to no good and are not genuine trans women. But I agree with a post syl made earlier. The ppl of both sexes who have struggled all their lives Feeling they are in the wrong body are genuine and go through much distress. They deserve some sympathy imo. They go through terribly painful operations and live in desperate isolation just to feel relatively normal. They are not biological women and should not be referred to as such, but nor do they deserve to be tarnished with the same brush as the men with a twisted mindset.
I don't think they are. A woman's perv radar is usually highly efficient. We know when someone's leering or being inappropriate in ways men can never understand. It's something we've had to develop from being kids. And we also pick up the vibes when someone is being non threatening.
Anonymous said
Apr 16 8:13 PM, 2025
Red Okktober wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
To the Anon wondering about males who look female and have had 'the op' so to speak I too am confused about their status. What prison would they go to? It would have to be a women's as they have female genitalia and sending them to a male prison would cause chaos. From what I can ascertain trans women who have had the necessary operations and look like women are going to be recognised as trans women in law but NOT women. I think the previous ruling removed that distinction. I feel for genuine trans women as they really feel trapped in the wrong body and struggle so much just to feel normal. But they were born as men and do not have the inner organs of women therefore they cannot be recognised as biological women, as they are not. It will have implications for trans ladies in sports but I think that is a necessary change tbh as trans women were beating all of the biological women by quite some margin! There has been backlash from the Trans community which is inevitable but unfair imo and lacks insight.
Trans women should always have been recognised as trans women - because that is what they are!
Masquerading as actual real women was never going to work, and it hasn't. The huge majority of them aren't fooling anyone anyway.
I've always been for specialist trans prisons and specialist trans sports - The Trans Olympics for example.
It will take time, but will settle down with that time, just as homosexuality is now recognised as being 'normal' or at least not abnormal by most people.
The public will accept trans woman far more readily if they stop pretending to be something that they are not.
I feel it’s too late for that Red, too ingrained. The fact that today’s ruling will be seen by many of them as a win by women for women (despite what the judge said) will encourage the trans zealots on further…it’s all about the control of and humiliating women, hence no interest in competing against their own sort (Lia Thomas a prime example).
I don’t know the hierarchy of the panel but how I wish one of the female judges had read out the ruling.
Anonymous said
Apr 16 8:53 PM, 2025
I agree with your last post digger. But in regards to prison, no matter if the crime is petty or serious, I don't see how a trans woman who has had surgery and looks 100% female can realistically go to a male prison. But since the law now states that a trans woman is not a woman it does have far reaching implications in many spheres of life. The men that go through so much mental and physical pain to change their sex forever are not usually the unsavoury one's nor can I Imagine they are particularly concerned with playing female sports. I'm not sure what the "certificate" the Judge mentioned pertains to either, unless it states that a woman who has had the necessary physical surgery was considered a woman under the previous law. Now that has changed and genuine trans women are worried they will face more openly hostile harassment in society. I do think that may be true but they should never have been perceived as women in the eyes of the law in the first place. That has never been the case for trans men.
Anonymous said
Apr 16 10:22 PM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
I agree with your last post digger. But in regards to prison, no matter if the crime is petty or serious, I don't see how a trans woman who has had surgery and looks 100% female can realistically go to a male prison. But since the law now states that a trans woman is not a woman it does have far reaching implications in many spheres of life. The men that go through so much mental and physical pain to change their sex forever are not usually the unsavoury one's nor can I Imagine they are particularly concerned with playing female sports. I'm not sure what the "certificate" the Judge mentioned pertains to either, unless it states that a woman who has had the necessary physical surgery was considered a woman under the previous law. Now that has changed and genuine trans women are worried they will face more openly hostile harassment in society. I do think that may be true but they should never have been perceived as women in the eyes of the law in the first place. That has never been the case for trans men.
As expected the trans are seething; many claiming to fight the ruling (good luck with that), the usual threats of harming terfs and women in general, saw one poster organising a protest, others threatening to leave the UK (with no idea where to go). Noticed, for some reason, a few are urgently e-begging because they can’t afford food / rent (how andwhy the ruling has caused sudden poverty is anyone’s guess). Quite a few claiming to have lost the will to live.
it’ll come as no surprise that JKR is wholly to blame…she’s behind all this, her wealth swayed the judges, she’s hiding behind every woman out there encouraging them, more promises to burn remaining HP books / boycott any future purchases. So many wishing her an early and painful death.
And of course the UK is the “worse Nazi state“ on the planet.
Vita said
Apr 17 2:20 AM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
How many of these pretend “women” are now going to drop their act?…no legal standing in demanding access to female changing rooms, toilets, sports and the likes.
The case against Sandie Peggie... Upton must be piddling his Y-fronts at the thought of undressing with his fellow male colleagues.
Don't forget the Darlington case where the nurses had to share a changing room with a dude called 'Rose'
Some stupid bastard on Twitter said we should be put on a list with with Afghanistan and other countries with terrible treatment of women now because of the court ruling.I
Oh and we can say goodbye to rejoining the EU.
🙄
Magica said
Apr 17 4:46 AM, 2025
Vita wrote:
Some stupid bastard on Twitter said we should be put on a list with with Afghanistan and other countries with terrible treatment of women now because of the court ruling.I
Oh and we can say goodbye to rejoining the EU.
🙄
Idiot. Before the ruling it was terrible treatment of women, demeaning who real women were. I'm so glad these trans can't pretend to be women anymore. We were losing our status as women.
Anonymous said
Apr 17 10:01 AM, 2025
Thought should be given to people born 'intersex' - in other words where the appearance of their genitals is ambiguous and can't be described as obviously male or female. This is more common than you might think (maybe one in 2000 births according to a Sussex University study). Unfortunately they do have to be registered as either male or female, depending on the parents' wishes, which puts the parents in a difficult position. Any such child registered male but in later life feels that's wrong, might undergo surgery, and live as a woman, rather than as someone that's neither one thing or the other, or even just live as a woman without surgery. It's these people I feel sorry for - they must feel awful now that they are no longer a woman (in law) and presumably have to declare themselves as men because of society's 'either-or' mentality.
Digger said
Apr 17 10:12 AM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
I agree with your last post digger. But in regards to prison, no matter if the crime is petty or serious, I don't see how a trans woman who has had surgery and looks 100% female can realistically go to a male prison. But since the law now states that a trans woman is not a woman it does have far reaching implications in many spheres of life. The men that go through so much mental and physical pain to change their sex forever are not usually the unsavoury one's nor can I Imagine they are particularly concerned with playing female sports. I'm not sure what the "certificate" the Judge mentioned pertains to either, unless it states that a woman who has had the necessary physical surgery was considered a woman under the previous law. Now that has changed and genuine trans women are worried they will face more openly hostile harassment in society. I do think that may be true but they should never have been perceived as women in the eyes of the law in the first place. That has never been the case for trans men.
Then the prisons need to make changes to the accommodation accordingly. Women have every right to reject a transwoman being in close proximity if they so desire. You don't go to prison to get pandered to.
Digger said
Apr 17 10:12 AM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
And so it begins…
As expected the trans are seething; many claiming to fight the ruling (good luck with that), the usual threats of harming terfs and women in general, saw one poster organising a protest, others threatening to leave the UK (with no idea where to go). Noticed, for some reason, a few are urgently e-begging because they can’t afford food / rent (how andwhy the ruling has caused sudden poverty is anyone’s guess). Quite a few claiming to have lost the will to live.
it’ll come as no surprise that JKR is wholly to blame…she’s behind all this, her wealth swayed the judges, she’s hiding behind every woman out there encouraging them, more promises to burn remaining HP books / boycott any future purchases. So many wishing her an early and painful death.
And of course the UK is the “worse Nazi state“ on the planet.
They'll get over it if we all ignored the histrionics.
Syl said
Apr 17 11:24 AM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
Thought should be given to people born 'intersex' - in other words where the appearance of their genitals is ambiguous and can't be described as obviously male or female. This is more common than you might think (maybe one in 2000 births according to a Sussex University study). Unfortunately they do have to be registered as either male or female, depending on the parents' wishes, which puts the parents in a difficult position. Any such child registered male but in later life feels that's wrong, might undergo surgery, and live as a woman, rather than as someone that's neither one thing or the other, or even just live as a woman without surgery. It's these people I feel sorry for - they must feel awful now that they are no longer a woman (in law) and presumably have to declare themselves as men because of society's 'either-or' mentality.
Perhaps in cases like these there should be special allowances. There have been a couple of high profile cases where the genitalia has not been clear at birth, and a decision has been made by medics, then when that person grows, they are obviously the opposite sex to which they have been brought up.
I also agree about prisons, occupations, hospitals, changing rooms, toilets. etc. A trans who has lived as a woman for years, had the medical assessments, the ops, and gone through years of change to live as a woman, should not then have to share amenities with men.
In the eyes of the law they may not be women, but some changes will have to be made to accommodate them fairly.
Red Okktober said
Apr 17 11:31 AM, 2025
It's completely bonkers how society has evolved that trans women were considered to be actual women by many. Never would have happened without easily led fools having access to the internet.
There was a phase, not so much lately, when wokies would call trans women 'women', and real women 'cis women'. It was the real women they gave an identifying tag to!
It would crack me up when someone dropped 'cis women' into a conversation, as if it were a perfectly normal thing to do.
Syl said
Apr 17 11:48 AM, 2025
Red Okktober wrote:
It's completely bonkers how society has evolved that trans women were considered to be actual women by many. Never would have happened without easily led fools having access to the internet.
There was a phase, not so much lately, when wokies would call trans women 'women', and real women 'cis women'. It was the real women they gave an identifying tag to!
It would crack me up when someone dropped 'cis women' into a conversation, as if it were a perfectly normal thing to do.
I have never had a conversation where that word has cropped up, I think I would pull someone up if they referred to a woman, as a cis woman....it's bloody insulting.
They are still male. Cosmetically changing body parts doesn’t change your sex, no matter how many bits you add or subtract.
But the trans community have been insisting for years that they are 100% women and more feminine in many cases (yeah I know
) and have demanded they should be referred to and treated as such - even the balding ones with beards. They insist they get periods, experience PMS, demand access to female health care etc. The trans community and their rabid “activists” have both caused the situation and the subsequent ruling.
The general public is not to blame here, the trans community itself is. A genuine trans should be addressing and making their voice heard if they don’t like how they’re being treated just as women have had to do.
Trans women should always have been recognised as trans women - because that is what they are!
Masquerading as actual real women was never going to work, and it hasn't. The huge majority of them aren't fooling anyone anyway.
I've always been for specialist trans prisons and specialist trans sports - The Trans Olympics for example.
It will take time, but will settle down with that time, just as homosexuality is now recognised as being 'normal' or at least not abnormal by most people.
The public will accept trans woman far more readily if they stop pretending to be something that they are not.
I suspect the majority of trans who are genuine would utterly respect a biological woman's need for single sex spaces. It's the twisted pervs who like to strut around in those private spaces with their dicks out dressed in women's clothes that are the problem. Along with the ones who think they can push women aside in other ways e.g. sports.
I'm ok with genuine trans. But don't tell me what it's like to live as a woman. From an early age we have to run the gauntlet of male interest, some of it very negative and threatening. Some of us have been abused, raped, conditioned, controlled, subjugated by men and male toxicity. When we say we want private safe spaces, we're earned that right. It's ours. Non-negotiable.
You go to prison to be punished for doing wrong. Who cares if they have a hard time in prison. Don't break the fucking law then.
I don't think they are. A woman's perv radar is usually highly efficient. We know when someone's leering or being inappropriate in ways men can never understand. It's something we've had to develop from being kids. And we also pick up the vibes when someone is being non threatening.
I feel it’s too late for that Red, too ingrained. The fact that today’s ruling will be seen by many of them as a win by women for women (despite what the judge said) will encourage the trans zealots on further…it’s all about the control of and humiliating women, hence no interest in competing against their own sort (Lia Thomas a prime example).
I don’t know the hierarchy of the panel but how I wish one of the female judges had read out the ruling.
Gender Recognition Certificate I believe. https://www.gov.uk/apply-gender-recognition-certificate
And so it begins…
As expected the trans are seething; many claiming to fight the ruling (good luck with that), the usual threats of harming terfs and women in general, saw one poster organising a protest, others threatening to leave the UK (with no idea where to go). Noticed, for some reason, a few are urgently e-begging because they can’t afford food / rent (how and why the ruling has caused sudden poverty is anyone’s guess). Quite a few claiming to have lost the will to live.
it’ll come as no surprise that JKR is wholly to blame…she’s behind all this, her wealth swayed the judges, she’s hiding behind every woman out there encouraging them, more promises to burn remaining HP books / boycott any future purchases. So many wishing her an early and painful death.
And of course the UK is the “worse Nazi state“ on the planet.
Don't forget the Darlington case where the nurses had to share a changing room with a dude called 'Rose'
He even whinged they weren't getting undressed.
Some stupid bastard on Twitter said we should be put on a list with with Afghanistan and other countries with terrible treatment of women now because of the court ruling.I
Oh and we can say goodbye to rejoining the EU.
🙄
Idiot. Before the ruling it was terrible treatment of women, demeaning who real women were. I'm so glad these trans can't pretend to be women anymore. We were losing our status as women.
Thought should be given to people born 'intersex' - in other words where the appearance of their genitals is ambiguous and can't be described as obviously male or female. This is more common than you might think (maybe one in 2000 births according to a Sussex University study). Unfortunately they do have to be registered as either male or female, depending on the parents' wishes, which puts the parents in a difficult position. Any such child registered male but in later life feels that's wrong, might undergo surgery, and live as a woman, rather than as someone that's neither one thing or the other, or even just live as a woman without surgery. It's these people I feel sorry for - they must feel awful now that they are no longer a woman (in law) and presumably have to declare themselves as men because of society's 'either-or' mentality.
Then the prisons need to make changes to the accommodation accordingly. Women have every right to reject a transwoman being in close proximity if they so desire. You don't go to prison to get pandered to.
They'll get over it if we all ignored the histrionics.
Perhaps in cases like these there should be special allowances. There have been a couple of high profile cases where the genitalia has not been clear at birth, and a decision has been made by medics, then when that person grows, they are obviously the opposite sex to which they have been brought up.
I also agree about prisons, occupations, hospitals, changing rooms, toilets. etc. A trans who has lived as a woman for years, had the medical assessments, the ops, and gone through years of change to live as a woman, should not then have to share amenities with men.
In the eyes of the law they may not be women, but some changes will have to be made to accommodate them fairly.
There was a phase, not so much lately, when wokies would call trans women 'women', and real women 'cis women'. It was the real women they gave an identifying tag to!
It would crack me up when someone dropped 'cis women' into a conversation, as if it were a perfectly normal thing to do.
I have never had a conversation where that word has cropped up, I think I would pull someone up if they referred to a woman, as a cis woman....it's bloody insulting.
The word woman needs no prefix.