0–14 years 17.2% (2022) 15–64 years 64.0% (2022) 65 and over 18.8% (2022) So older people are small in comparison to working age people.
We have too many people here of working age who are not working. May 2025....Almost 10 million people of working age in the UK were neither working or looking for work.
That's part of it too.
But the demographics are undeniable and inescapable....
How, in a country that is changing as much as ours is, can anyone predict what it'll be like in 50 years time?
Immigration alone will change massively the way that chart looks. Culturally, the majority of immigrants that are coming here now have far bigger families than indigenous Brits have, so the birthrate wiill be considerably higher than those figures predict, that will have a knock on effect on the rest of the chart.
-- Edited by Syl on Saturday 26th of July 2025 04:36:16 PM
Maddog said
Jul 26 4:12 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Stats for age groups in the UK. 2022 figures.
0–14 years 17.2% (2022) 15–64 years 64.0% (2022) 65 and over 18.8% (2022) So older people are small in comparison to working age people.
We have too many people here of working age who are not working. May 2025....Almost 10 million people of working age in the UK were neither working or looking for work.
That's part of it too.
But the demographics are undeniable and inescapable....
How, in a country that is changing as much as ours is, can anyone predict what it'll be like in 50 years time?
Immigration alone will change massively the way that chart looks. Culturally, the majority of immigrants that are coming here now have far bigger families than indigenous Brits have, so the birthrate wiill be considerably higher than those figures predict, that will have a knock on effect on the rest of the chart.
By studying past and current rates of birth and death .
Obviously an increase or decrease in immigration could change those numbers slightly, but it would require another baby boom to change them much..
-- Edited by Syl on Saturday 26th of July 2025 04:35:28 PM
Syl said
Jul 26 4:34 PM, 2025
Records of past rates of birth would not account for people who are arriving in droves, traditionally having double, triple the children of people who were born here.
Immigration here is not changing slightly, it's changing drastically.
2025 Muslim population in the UK is 4 million. Almost double what it was in the 2011 census.
Maddog said
Jul 26 4:43 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Records of past rates of birth would not account for people who are arriving in droves, traditionally having double, triple the children of people who were born here.
Immigration here is not changing slightly, it's changing drastically. 2025 Muslim population in the UK is 4 million. Almost double what it was in the 2011 census.
No, but current birth rates would..
It's not like immigrant births aren't being counted..
Our birthrate in 2024 was 1.6, well below the 2.1 needed to replace the population..We have a few immigrants running around here too..
Syl said
Jul 26 4:57 PM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Records of past rates of birth would not account for people who are arriving in droves, traditionally having double, triple the children of people who were born here.
Immigration here is not changing slightly, it's changing drastically. 2025 Muslim population in the UK is 4 million. Almost double what it was in the 2011 census.
No, but current birth rates would..
It's not like immigrant births aren't being counted..
Our birthrate in 2024 was 1.6, well below the 2.1 needed to replace the population..We have a few immigrants running around here too..
Current birth rates would not be taking into account double the numbers of Muslims who have arrived since 2011.
We can't really compare the US with the UK...we are a small island, you are not.
Maddog said
Jul 26 5:30 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Records of past rates of birth would not account for people who are arriving in droves, traditionally having double, triple the children of people who were born here.
Immigration here is not changing slightly, it's changing drastically. 2025 Muslim population in the UK is 4 million. Almost double what it was in the 2011 census.
No, but current birth rates would..
It's not like immigrant births aren't being counted..
Our birthrate in 2024 was 1.6, well below the 2.1 needed to replace the population..We have a few immigrants running around here too..
Current birth rates would not be taking into account double the numbers of Muslims who have arrived since 2011.
We can't really compare the US with the UK...we are a small island, you are not.
Current birth rates would include all births that happened in your country in 2024.
Where the people giving birth came from would be irrelevant.
You don't have enough people being born to support your welfare state..The demographics are very clear on this.
Maddog said
Jul 26 5:35 PM, 2025
In 2023:
There were 591,072 live births in England and Wales, the lowest number of births since 1977 (569,259).
The above figures includes all people giving birth in England and Wales, regardless of their religion..
Syl said
Jul 26 5:42 PM, 2025
There are too many people not contributing, and too many people living here in general. Which is why no one can get an NHS or dental appointment, a decent job, a place for their kids in schools, a decent house to live in.
Perhaps a fairer way in the future, would be to pay state pension or benefits to people who have contributed throughout their working lives.
Obviously that won't happen, which is why so many people don't want to work....they don't need to.
Maddog said
Jul 26 5:47 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
There are too many people not contributing, and too many people living here in general. Which is why no one can get an NHS or dental appointment, a decent job, a place for their kids in schools, a decent house to live in.
Perhaps a fairer way in the future, would be to pay state pension or benefits to people who have contributed throughout their working lives. Obviously that won't happen, which is why so many people don't want to work....they don't need to.
There might be too few people working, but your system and every system in the West are suffering from dropping birth rates and more people aging out..
That's part of the problem with healthcare. Older people are the primary users of it. Expect it to get worse..
You can dislike the data all you want. The data doesn't care..
Maddog said
Jul 26 5:51 PM, 2025
You could be in much worse shape. Japan, is in population free fall, and has a huge elderly population.
It's severely impacting their GDP too.
Can't grow an economy very well with a declining population of workers..
Syl said
Jul 26 5:51 PM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
In 2023:
There were 591,072 live births in England and Wales, the lowest number of births since 1977 (569,259).
The above figures includes all people giving birth in England and Wales, regardless of their religion..
1.44 child per woman??
I live within distance of quite a few Muslim families, 3 or 4 in my road alone. Each woman, sometimes three or four women at the same address, have a child a year.
So far in one house it looks like there are currently enough kids to start a nursery or junior school. It's been the same for the last 20 years. Those original children are now having children of their own....and the pattern continues.
So if that's the norm throughout, I think there must be millions of childless English/Welsh women to make the figure of 1.44 child per woman up.
Maddog said
Jul 26 5:53 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
In 2023:
There were 591,072 live births in England and Wales, the lowest number of births since 1977 (569,259).
The above figures includes all people giving birth in England and Wales, regardless of their religion..
1.44 child per woman??
I live within distance of quite a few Muslim families, 3 or 4 in my road alone. Each woman, sometimes three or four women at the same address, have a child a year.
So far in one house it looks like there are currently enough kids to start a nursery or junior school. It's been the same for the last 20 years. Those original children are now having children of their own....and the pattern continues.
So if that's the norm throughout, I think there must be millions of childless English/Welsh women to make the figure of 1.44 child per woman up.
I know dozens of childless women.
It's pretty common now..
Syl said
Jul 26 5:55 PM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
In 2023:
There were 591,072 live births in England and Wales, the lowest number of births since 1977 (569,259).
The above figures includes all people giving birth in England and Wales, regardless of their religion..
1.44 child per woman??
I live within distance of quite a few Muslim families, 3 or 4 in my road alone. Each woman, sometimes three or four women at the same address, have a child a year.
So far in one house it looks like there are currently enough kids to start a nursery or junior school. It's been the same for the last 20 years. Those original children are now having children of their own....and the pattern continues.
So if that's the norm throughout, I think there must be millions of childless English/Welsh women to make the figure of 1.44 child per woman up.
The above figures includes all people giving birth in England and Wales, regardless of their religion..
1.44 child per woman??
I live within distance of quite a few Muslim families, 3 or 4 in my road alone. Each woman, sometimes three or four women at the same address, have a child a year.
So far in one house it looks like there are currently enough kids to start a nursery or junior school. It's been the same for the last 20 years. Those original children are now having children of their own....and the pattern continues.
So if that's the norm throughout, I think there must be millions of childless English/Welsh women to make the figure of 1.44 child per woman up.
I know dozens of childless women.
It's pretty common now..
In some cultures...obviously not all.
Well sure.
Two things can be true at the same time..
There are not enough people existing and working to support the British welfare state and the economy..
Non native people in the UK are having more kids than the natives..
That's the difference between the UK and Japan. They are far stricter on immigration and are therefore facing the most intense population crisis on the planet..
Entire villages are disappearing and homes are being abandoned..
I am betting those figures are taken of women born IN England and Wales.
"More than half (50.1%) of women in England and Wales born in 1990 were without a child when they turned 30 in 2020, the first generation to do so, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS)"
I am betting those figures are taken of women born IN England and Wales.
"More than half (50.1%) of women in England and Wales born in 1990 were without a child when they turned 30 in 2020, the first generation to do so, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS)"
"Women in England" means being somewhere at the time..
Not where you were born..
I'm sure you can find birthrate figures for only the native born.
Maddog said
Jul 26 6:13 PM, 2025
31.8% of all live births were to non-UK-born mothers in England and Wales (an increase from 30.3% in 2022); this continues a general increase in the percentage of live births to non-UK-born mothers.
Births by parents’ country of birth, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics https://share.google/oFliXyQWkWYOL9hBt
There you go. About 1/3 of the live births in the UK are to non native mothers..
And even with those immigrants cranking out those babies, the UK has a population crises..
Maddog said
Jul 26 6:24 PM, 2025
Even the Danes are in trouble.
Maddog said
Jul 26 6:42 PM, 2025
Denmark is set to have the highest retirement age in Europe after its parliament adopted a law raising it to 70 by 2040.
Denmark to raise retirement age to highest in Europe - BBC News https://share.google/LGXhuLcijDib7qxRj
How, in a country that is changing as much as ours is, can anyone predict what it'll be like in 50 years time?
Immigration alone will change massively the way that chart looks. Culturally, the majority of immigrants that are coming here now have far bigger families than indigenous Brits have, so the birthrate wiill be considerably higher than those figures predict, that will have a knock on effect on the rest of the chart.
-- Edited by Syl on Saturday 26th of July 2025 04:36:16 PM
By studying past and current rates of birth and death .
Obviously an increase or decrease in immigration could change those numbers slightly, but it would require another baby boom to change them much..
-- Edited by Syl on Saturday 26th of July 2025 04:35:28 PM
Immigration here is not changing slightly, it's changing drastically.
2025 Muslim population in the UK is 4 million. Almost double what it was in the 2011 census.
No, but current birth rates would..
It's not like immigrant births aren't being counted..
Our birthrate in 2024 was 1.6, well below the 2.1 needed to replace the population..We have a few immigrants running around here too..
Current birth rates would not be taking into account double the numbers of Muslims who have arrived since 2011.
We can't really compare the US with the UK...we are a small island, you are not.
Current birth rates would include all births that happened in your country in 2024.
Where the people giving birth came from would be irrelevant.
You don't have enough people being born to support your welfare state..The demographics are very clear on this.
There were 591,072 live births in England and Wales, the lowest number of births since 1977 (569,259).
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/birthsummarytablesenglandandwales/2023
The above figures includes all people giving birth in England and Wales, regardless of their religion..
There are too many people not contributing, and too many people living here in general. Which is why no one can get an NHS or dental appointment, a decent job, a place for their kids in schools, a decent house to live in.
Perhaps a fairer way in the future, would be to pay state pension or benefits to people who have contributed throughout their working lives.
Obviously that won't happen, which is why so many people don't want to work....they don't need to.
There might be too few people working, but your system and every system in the West are suffering from dropping birth rates and more people aging out..
That's part of the problem with healthcare. Older people are the primary users of it. Expect it to get worse..
You can dislike the data all you want. The data doesn't care..
It's severely impacting their GDP too.
Can't grow an economy very well with a declining population of workers..
1.44 child per woman??
I live within distance of quite a few Muslim families, 3 or 4 in my road alone. Each woman, sometimes three or four women at the same address, have a child a year.
So far in one house it looks like there are currently enough kids to start a nursery or junior school. It's been the same for the last 20 years. Those original children are now having children of their own....and the pattern continues.
So if that's the norm throughout, I think there must be millions of childless English/Welsh women to make the figure of 1.44 child per woman up.
I know dozens of childless women.
It's pretty common now..
In some cultures...obviously not all.
Well sure.
Two things can be true at the same time..
There are not enough people existing and working to support the British welfare state and the economy..
Non native people in the UK are having more kids than the natives..
That's the difference between the UK and Japan. They are far stricter on immigration and are therefore facing the most intense population crisis on the planet..
Entire villages are disappearing and homes are being abandoned..
I am betting those figures are taken of women born IN England and Wales.
"More than half (50.1%) of women in England and Wales born in 1990 were without a child when they turned 30 in 2020, the first generation to do so, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS)"
"Women in England" means being somewhere at the time..
Not where you were born..
I'm sure you can find birthrate figures for only the native born.
Births by parents’ country of birth, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics https://share.google/oFliXyQWkWYOL9hBt
There you go. About 1/3 of the live births in the UK are to non native mothers..
And even with those immigrants cranking out those babies, the UK has a population crises..
Even the Danes are in trouble.
Denmark to raise retirement age to highest in Europe - BBC News https://share.google/LGXhuLcijDib7qxRj
Apparently the commercials aren't working well..