I still don't know anyone who has had it let alone died from it but I know two people who have killed themselves and many more who are suffering due to delayed treatments, the elderly in homes have still not been allowed to see their loved ones and people are still dying alone in hospitals
Syl said
Oct 31 12:40 PM, 2020
I do agree perspective is needed.
That graph is 4 months old and obviously later figures will show a different picture. It's also Swedish, where they took a very different path which worked at first, though they are now bringing lockdowns in as their figures are on the increase.
I imagine the majority of people who are suffering severe depression (which is obviously different from being bloody fed up with it all, as I am sure most of us are) are watching all the gloom and doom and reading the latest doom laden announcements regularly so see the worst case scenario's as fact.
The other way is to follow guidelines, do your best to protect yourself and others, get on with life as best you can given the limitations, and count your blessings.
Personally I do know one person who has died and several younger people who have been quite ill with it but not hospitalised. I don't know of anyone who has killed themselves.
-- Edited by Syl on Saturday 31st of October 2020 12:44:24 PM
JP said
Oct 31 4:32 PM, 2020
I bet no one at this press conference today will pose the question and point out to the CSO that he and his group SAGE have said that the R rate has been decreasing for the last two weeks running. It is between 1.1 and 1.3 as of yesterday. So it's going in the right direction.
Yet they've now fed the PM with loads of very gloomy and disastrous looking figures/predictions. Hence the situation that is seemingly now about to happen a full national lockdown.
-- Edited by JP on Saturday 31st of October 2020 04:37:33 PM
JP said
Oct 31 4:36 PM, 2020
Syl wrote:
I do agree perspective is needed.
That graph is 4 months old and obviously later figures will show a different picture. It's also Swedish, where they took a very different path which worked at first, though they are now bringing lockdowns in as their figures are on the increase.
I imagine the majority of people who are suffering severe depression (which is obviously different from being bloody fed up with it all, as I am sure most of us are) are watching all the gloom and doom and reading the latest doom laden announcements regularly so see the worst case scenario's as fact.
The other way is to follow guidelines, do your best to protect yourself and others, get on with life as best you can given the limitations, and count your blessings.
Personally I do know one person who has died and several younger people who have been quite ill with it but not hospitalised. I don't know of anyone who has killed themselves.
-- Edited by Syl on Saturday 31st of October 2020 12:44:24 PM
Your personal experience that's 1 covid versus 0 suicide then. Figures that tell us nothing overall of course.
JP said
Oct 31 4:47 PM, 2020
Anonymous wrote:
Perspective is needed!
I still don't know anyone who has had it let alone died from it but I know two people who have killed themselves and many more who are suffering due to delayed treatments, the elderly in homes have still not been allowed to see their loved ones and people are still dying alone in hospitals
Perspective is needed I agree. What annoys me is that a lot of SAGE predictions are incredibly wild. And always turn out to be at least.. 50% overestimated. There's being cautious and then there's being way out like SAGE seem to always be.
Unfortunately it is the over 80 group where percentage changes do take quite a dramatic stark hit. The same kind of changes in that age group would occur with pretty much any illness of course.
Those figures are obviously from Sweden and a bit out of date. But I believe the stark changes in the over 80 age bracket occurs in all basically all Countries. I don't think it's changed much now either.
Syl said
Oct 31 7:48 PM, 2020
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
I do agree perspective is needed.
That graph is 4 months old and obviously later figures will show a different picture. It's also Swedish, where they took a very different path which worked at first, though they are now bringing lockdowns in as their figures are on the increase.
I imagine the majority of people who are suffering severe depression (which is obviously different from being bloody fed up with it all, as I am sure most of us are) are watching all the gloom and doom and reading the latest doom laden announcements regularly so see the worst case scenario's as fact.
The other way is to follow guidelines, do your best to protect yourself and others, get on with life as best you can given the limitations, and count your blessings.
Personally I do know one person who has died and several younger people who have been quite ill with it but not hospitalised. I don't know of anyone who has killed themselves.
-- Edited by Syl on Saturday 31st of October 2020 12:44:24 PM
Your personal experience that's 1 covid versus 0 suicide then. Figures that tell us nothing overall of course.
Of course not, I was just replying to the person who knows of no cases of Covid deaths but does know of suicides.
Overall It's the national figures that matter not the individual ones.
-- Edited by Syl on Saturday 31st of October 2020 07:51:04 PM
John Doe said
Oct 31 8:00 PM, 2020
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
I do agree perspective is needed.
That graph is 4 months old and obviously later figures will show a different picture. It's also Swedish, where they took a very different path which worked at first, though they are now bringing lockdowns in as their figures are on the increase.
I imagine the majority of people who are suffering severe depression (which is obviously different from being bloody fed up with it all, as I am sure most of us are) are watching all the gloom and doom and reading the latest doom laden announcements regularly so see the worst case scenario's as fact.
The other way is to follow guidelines, do your best to protect yourself and others, get on with life as best you can given the limitations, and count your blessings.
Personally I do know one person who has died and several younger people who have been quite ill with it but not hospitalised. I don't know of anyone who has killed themselves.
-- Edited by Syl on Saturday 31st of October 2020 12:44:24 PM
Your personal experience that's 1 covid versus 0 suicide then. Figures that tell us nothing overall of course.
Of course not, I was just replying to the person who knows of no cases of Covid deaths but does know of suicides.
Overall It's the national figures that matter not the individual ones.
-- Edited by Syl on Saturday 31st of October 2020 07:51:04 PM
Yes and well over 7000 are dying a day worldwide and the figures are rising, yes perspective is need but I hate the way some anons on here are desperately trying to downplay the pandemic as if it is nothing and I question their motives.
Syl said
Oct 31 8:10 PM, 2020
Some people just don't see beyond their own circumstances.
John Doe said
Oct 31 8:20 PM, 2020
Syl wrote:
Some people just don't see beyond their own circumstances.
Exactly.
JP said
Oct 31 9:50 PM, 2020
A press conference like the one today makes you feel like we are at war.
In a way we are. Invisible enemies are the most dangerous. It's easier for them to slip some people's minds from day to day.
No matter the circumstances. Soldiering on is the order of the day. Keep on, keeping on.
That's enough cliches though. lol
-- Edited by JP on Saturday 31st of October 2020 09:51:50 PM
-- Edited by JP on Saturday 31st of October 2020 09:55:20 PM
Twizzler said
Oct 31 10:58 PM, 2020
Here we go again another national lockdown.
I have never been out of the bloody lockdown .
Not seen family yet either.
Hopefully we will get Christmas with our families!
JP
I told you that this would happen, and that local lockdowns were not working.
Syl said
Oct 31 11:33 PM, 2020
Twizzler wrote:
Here we go again another national lockdown.
I have never been out of the bloody lockdown .
Not seen family yet either.
Hopefully we will get Christmas with our families!
JP
I told you that this would happen, and that local lockdowns were not working.
I'm sorry you didn't get the chance to see your son Twizzler, I know you were hoping to.
We just got chance to travel up to Leeds to see grandson, just once in 8 months....haven't seen son for ages.
I honestly believe if everyone had followed the guidlines we would not be going into a 2nd lockdown.
The other main cause imo is the lack of checks at airports.
We must be the only country that just let passengers sail through without additional covid checks.
JP said
Oct 31 11:57 PM, 2020
Twizzler wrote:
Here we go again another national lockdown.
I have never been out of the bloody lockdown .
Not seen family yet either.
Hopefully we will get Christmas with our families!
JP
I told you that this would happen, and that local lockdowns were not working.
And the same people SAGE who have now come up with a raft of wild statistics/predictions. Have also said the R rate has actually decreased over the last 2 weeks. 1.1 to 1.3 as of yesterday.
But hey. It is what it is. Just got to carry on. Because this virus is proving to be a relentless terrible menace across much of Europe an beyond.
-- Edited by JP on Saturday 31st of October 2020 11:57:39 PM
JP said
Nov 1 12:07 AM, 2020
Syl wrote:
Twizzler wrote:
Here we go again another national lockdown.
I have never been out of the bloody lockdown .
Not seen family yet either.
Hopefully we will get Christmas with our families!
JP
I told you that this would happen, and that local lockdowns were not working.
I'm sorry you didn't get the chance to see your son Twizzler, I know you were hoping to.
We just got chance to travel up to Leeds to see grandson, just once in 8 months....haven't seen son for ages.
I honestly believe if everyone had followed the guidlines we would not be going into a 2nd lockdown.
The other main cause imo is the lack of checks at airports.
We must be the only country that just let passengers sail through without additional covid checks.
Yep obviously what people do or don't do more to the point is quite a lot to do with it. Here in the East of England and in the South West and South East it's still pretty low. Quite a lot of people, Businesses and MPs here aren't too pleased with today's announcement's.
The thing with SAGE predictions and guess work are that they are in a, win, win, situation no matter what really. If their wild predictions don't now occur they can just say well they would have done if we didn't do this lockdown. And if we didn't have this lockdown and on the off chance an unlikely one I think that their actually predictions did come to fruition. They could then say we told you so!
The slides in today's conferences still show quite marked differences between one area and another. Anyone who watched could still see that.
But like I say. Just got to get on with it. And do what you have to do.
JP said
Nov 1 12:17 AM, 2020
Syl wrote:
Twizzler wrote:
Here we go again another national lockdown.
I have never been out of the bloody lockdown .
Not seen family yet either.
Hopefully we will get Christmas with our families!
JP
I told you that this would happen, and that local lockdowns were not working.
I'm sorry you didn't get the chance to see your son Twizzler, I know you were hoping to.
We just got chance to travel up to Leeds to see grandson, just once in 8 months....haven't seen son for ages.
I honestly believe if everyone had followed the guidlines we would not be going into a 2nd lockdown.
The other main cause imo is the lack of checks at airports.
We must be the only country that just let passengers sail through without additional covid checks.
A lot on airport check situation can be found here^ It's quite interesting. Seems to cover many angles.
Copy & paste it into google if you want to read it. Links still obviously not working for me.
-- Edited by JP on Sunday 1st of November 2020 12:21:40 AM
Syl said
Nov 1 12:44 AM, 2020
I would bet anything that the countries, particularly Asian countries that have a strict airport regime are the countries where the virus isn't heading towards a 2nd wave.
As for some areas having far less infections than others.... it spread. Months ago the south had far more infections, ICU patients and deaths than the north, now it's reversed, but listening to this afternoons update and seeing the graphs, all indications are that the south will catch up....and every area bar one showed the infection rate was on the up in all age groups.
-- Edited by Syl on Sunday 1st of November 2020 12:55:47 AM
Syl said
Nov 1 12:52 AM, 2020
Re airports, nothing was said today about air travel restrictions.
Maybe if people are still flitting around on holiday, compulsary quarantine should apply to everyone who re-enters whilst this present lockdown is in force.
JP said
Nov 1 1:06 AM, 2020
Syl wrote:
I would bet anything that the countries that have a strict airport regime are the countries where the virus isn't heading towards a 2nd wave.
As for some areas having far less infections than others.... it spread. Months ago the south had far more infections, ICU patients and deaths than the north, now it's reversed, but listening to this afternoons update and seeing the graphs, all indications are that the south will catch up....and every area bar one showed the infection rate was on the up in all age groups.
You might want to do some reading before you make that bet. :D Try looking up Italy for a start.
Well you are saying something different to what the experts have said. Van Tam and others even recently have said the first wave was more evenly distributed across the Country than this wave.
Indication. Prediction via models. And guess work. All being done for a virus that in virus terms is still very young when it comes to how long it tends to take experts to know a virus well. I still see articles where an expert talks about this virus and certain aspects of this virus using words such as peculiar.
I wouldn't say it was on the up in all age groups in all areas. Bar one. More than one. It barely moved in some areas for some age groups. Look at the heat map chart again. I have. And it just confirmed what I recalled from earlier on.
-- Edited by JP on Sunday 1st of November 2020 01:09:05 AM
-- Edited by JP on Sunday 1st of November 2020 01:10:43 AM
JP said
Nov 1 1:14 AM, 2020
Syl wrote:
I would bet anything that the countries, particularly Asian countries that have a strict airport regime are the countries where the virus isn't heading towards a 2nd wave.
As for some areas having far less infections than others.... it spread. Months ago the south had far more infections, ICU patients and deaths than the north, now it's reversed, but listening to this afternoons update and seeing the graphs, all indications are that the south will catch up....and every area bar one showed the infection rate was on the up in all age groups.
-- Edited by Syl on Sunday 1st of November 2020 12:55:47 AM
You changed that to particularly Asian Countries. :D
After you saw that I'd mentioned Italy? :D
Syl said
Nov 1 1:16 AM, 2020
JP, I added Asian countries to my post, where airport checks are strict and travel restrictions are stricter.
I was just talking to someone who lives in Thailand. There is a mandatory 2 week quarantine for all arrivals there, Thai or foreign.
They have been out of lockdown since June with no spikes in infections or deaths....even though they were the 2nd country to be infected.
Perspective is needed!
I still don't know anyone who has had it let alone died from it but I know two people who have killed themselves and many more who are suffering due to delayed treatments, the elderly in homes have still not been allowed to see their loved ones and people are still dying alone in hospitals
I do agree perspective is needed.
That graph is 4 months old and obviously later figures will show a different picture. It's also Swedish, where they took a very different path which worked at first, though they are now bringing lockdowns in as their figures are on the increase.
I imagine the majority of people who are suffering severe depression (which is obviously different from being bloody fed up with it all, as I am sure most of us are) are watching all the gloom and doom and reading the latest doom laden announcements regularly so see the worst case scenario's as fact.
The other way is to follow guidelines, do your best to protect yourself and others, get on with life as best you can given the limitations, and count your blessings.
Personally I do know one person who has died and several younger people who have been quite ill with it but not hospitalised.
I don't know of anyone who has killed themselves.
-- Edited by Syl on Saturday 31st of October 2020 12:44:24 PM
I bet no one at this press conference today will pose the question and point out to the CSO that he and his group SAGE have said that the R rate has been decreasing for the last two weeks running. It is between 1.1 and 1.3 as of yesterday. So it's going in the right direction.
Yet they've now fed the PM with loads of very gloomy and disastrous looking figures/predictions. Hence the situation that is seemingly now about to happen a full national lockdown.
-- Edited by JP on Saturday 31st of October 2020 04:37:33 PM
Your personal experience that's 1 covid versus 0 suicide then. Figures that tell us nothing overall of course.
Perspective is needed I agree. What annoys me is that a lot of SAGE predictions are incredibly wild. And always turn out to be at least.. 50% overestimated. There's being cautious and then there's being way out like SAGE seem to always be.
Unfortunately it is the over 80 group where percentage changes do take quite a dramatic stark hit. The same kind of changes in that age group would occur with pretty much any illness of course.
Those figures are obviously from Sweden and a bit out of date. But I believe the stark changes in the over 80 age bracket occurs in all basically all Countries. I don't think it's changed much now either.
Of course not, I was just replying to the person who knows of no cases of Covid deaths but does know of suicides.
Overall It's the national figures that matter not the individual ones.
-- Edited by Syl on Saturday 31st of October 2020 07:51:04 PM
Yes and well over 7000 are dying a day worldwide and the figures are rising, yes perspective is need but I hate the way some anons on here are desperately trying to downplay the pandemic as if it is nothing and I question their motives.
Exactly.
A press conference like the one today makes you feel like we are at war.
In a way we are. Invisible enemies are the most dangerous. It's easier for them to slip some people's minds from day to day.
No matter the circumstances. Soldiering on is the order of the day. Keep on, keeping on.
That's enough cliches though. lol
-- Edited by JP on Saturday 31st of October 2020 09:51:50 PM
-- Edited by JP on Saturday 31st of October 2020 09:55:20 PM
Here we go again another national lockdown.
I have never been out of the bloody lockdown .
Not seen family yet either.
Hopefully we will get Christmas with our families!
JP
I told you that this would happen, and that local lockdowns were not working.
I'm sorry you didn't get the chance to see your son Twizzler, I know you were hoping to.
We just got chance to travel up to Leeds to see grandson, just once in 8 months....haven't seen son for ages.
I honestly believe if everyone had followed the guidlines we would not be going into a 2nd lockdown.
The other main cause imo is the lack of checks at airports.
We must be the only country that just let passengers sail through without additional covid checks.
And the same people SAGE who have now come up with a raft of wild statistics/predictions. Have also said the R rate has actually decreased over the last 2 weeks. 1.1 to 1.3 as of yesterday.
But hey. It is what it is. Just got to carry on. Because this virus is proving to be a relentless terrible menace across much of Europe an beyond.
-- Edited by JP on Saturday 31st of October 2020 11:57:39 PM
Yep obviously what people do or don't do more to the point is quite a lot to do with it. Here in the East of England and in the South West and South East it's still pretty low. Quite a lot of people, Businesses and MPs here aren't too pleased with today's announcement's.
The thing with SAGE predictions and guess work are that they are in a, win, win, situation no matter what really. If their wild predictions don't now occur they can just say well they would have done if we didn't do this lockdown. And if we didn't have this lockdown and on the off chance an unlikely one I think that their actually predictions did come to fruition. They could then say we told you so!
The slides in today's conferences still show quite marked differences between one area and another. Anyone who watched could still see that.
But like I say. Just got to get on with it. And do what you have to do.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/why-airport-screening-wont-stop-spread-coronavirus
A lot on airport check situation can be found here^ It's quite interesting. Seems to cover many angles.
Copy & paste it into google if you want to read it. Links still obviously not working for me.
-- Edited by JP on Sunday 1st of November 2020 12:21:40 AM
I would bet anything that the countries, particularly Asian countries that have a strict airport regime are the countries where the virus isn't heading towards a 2nd wave.
As for some areas having far less infections than others.... it spread.
Months ago the south had far more infections, ICU patients and deaths than the north, now it's reversed, but listening to this afternoons update and seeing the graphs, all indications are that the south will catch up....and every area bar one showed the infection rate was on the up in all age groups.
-- Edited by Syl on Sunday 1st of November 2020 12:55:47 AM
Maybe if people are still flitting around on holiday, compulsary quarantine should apply to everyone who re-enters whilst this present lockdown is in force.
You might want to do some reading before you make that bet. :D Try looking up Italy for a start.
Well you are saying something different to what the experts have said. Van Tam and others even recently have said the first wave was more evenly distributed across the Country than this wave.
Indication. Prediction via models. And guess work. All being done for a virus that in virus terms is still very young when it comes to how long it tends to take experts to know a virus well. I still see articles where an expert talks about this virus and certain aspects of this virus using words such as peculiar.
I wouldn't say it was on the up in all age groups in all areas. Bar one. More than one. It barely moved in some areas for some age groups. Look at the heat map chart again. I have. And it just confirmed what I recalled from earlier on.
-- Edited by JP on Sunday 1st of November 2020 01:09:05 AM
-- Edited by JP on Sunday 1st of November 2020 01:10:43 AM
You changed that to particularly Asian Countries. :D
After you saw that I'd mentioned Italy? :D
I was just talking to someone who lives in Thailand. There is a mandatory 2 week quarantine for all arrivals there, Thai or foreign.
They have been out of lockdown since June with no spikes in infections or deaths....even though they were the 2nd country to be infected.