Interesting article on the reality of Ghosts - it's pretty much what I think because subjective experiences don't count as scientific evidence
Subjective experience is as real as anything else - you've narrowed down the definition of reality to suit yourself.
Syl said
Jun 24 11:15 PM, 2021
I imagine only troubled spirits hang around, hopefully the rest move on to the next plain....wherever that may be.
Anonymous said
Jun 25 11:06 AM, 2021
Syl wrote:
I imagine only troubled spirits hang around, hopefully the rest move on to the next plain....wherever that may be.
If you want to avoid troubled spirits best keep clear of internet forums.
Digger said
Jun 25 4:37 PM, 2021
John Doe wrote:
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Interesting article on the reality of Ghosts - it's pretty much what I think because subjective experiences don't count as scientific evidence (of which so far there is zero).
If there were such a thing as spirits then surely the Nazi Concentration Camps (for a start) would be utterly seething with them?
If you died at a concentration camp why the fuck would you hang around there?
You might not have a choice in the matter.
By what logic?
John Doe said
Jun 25 7:30 PM, 2021
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Interesting article on the reality of Ghosts - it's pretty much what I think because subjective experiences don't count as scientific evidence (of which so far there is zero).
If there were such a thing as spirits then surely the Nazi Concentration Camps (for a start) would be utterly seething with them?
If you died at a concentration camp why the fuck would you hang around there?
You might not have a choice in the matter.
By what logic?
If such a thing existed they may have to adhere to laws like the physical world does.
Although in my opinion the discussion is moot because Ghosts defy the Second Law of Thermodynamics and that always wins, always.
Just ask Brian Cox.
Digger said
Jun 25 8:23 PM, 2021
John Doe wrote:
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Interesting article on the reality of Ghosts - it's pretty much what I think because subjective experiences don't count as scientific evidence (of which so far there is zero).
If there were such a thing as spirits then surely the Nazi Concentration Camps (for a start) would be utterly seething with them?
If you died at a concentration camp why the fuck would you hang around there?
You might not have a choice in the matter.
By what logic?
If such a thing existed they may have to adhere to laws like the physical world does.
Although in my opinion the discussion is moot because Ghosts defy the Second Law of Thermodynamics and that always wins, always.
Just ask Brian Cox.
Odd that scientists like Cox can be open minded enough about wormholes and folding space both of which are pure theory and unproven. As for 'ghosts' are we not energy and isn't it true energy cannot be destroyed but merely takes another form?
And aren't we all still learning and are the mysterious of the universe laid bare to mankind? You know what the reality is? We know fuck all about what's really out there.
-- Edited by Digger on Friday 25th of June 2021 08:23:44 PM
John Doe said
Jun 25 8:59 PM, 2021
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Interesting article on the reality of Ghosts - it's pretty much what I think because subjective experiences don't count as scientific evidence (of which so far there is zero).
If there were such a thing as spirits then surely the Nazi Concentration Camps (for a start) would be utterly seething with them?
If you died at a concentration camp why the fuck would you hang around there?
You might not have a choice in the matter.
By what logic?
If such a thing existed they may have to adhere to laws like the physical world does.
Although in my opinion the discussion is moot because Ghosts defy the Second Law of Thermodynamics and that always wins, always.
Just ask Brian Cox.
Odd that scientists like Cox can be open minded enough about wormholes and folding space both of which are pure theory and unproven. As for 'ghosts' are we not energy and isn't it true energy cannot be destroyed but merely takes another form?
And aren't we all still learning and are the mysterious of the universe laid bare to mankind? You know what the reality is? We know fuck all about what's really out there.
-- Edited by Digger on Friday 25th of June 2021 08:23:44 PM
Well we are heat engines and heat is subject to the Second Law.
Energy does take another form when we die Digs, it goes back into natural biological cycle, our bodies lose energy as heat and organic matter is transferred into the insects, worms, bacteria and other lifeforms that consume us until there is nothing left.
It's an interesting discussion but here is another thing - why on earth would ghosts need clothes?
Also why would we be so special?
We are just another species of animal, life has existed for almost four billion years that's a hell of a lot of spirits although if they did exist there does seem to be a limit, I cant's recall any ghost sighting being older than the Romans although I could be wrong.
I agree we have so very much to discover out there but I don't think survival of consciousness after death is one of them - I would (of course) love to be wrong though.
-- Edited by John Doe on Friday 25th of June 2021 09:01:11 PM
John Doe said
Jun 25 10:51 PM, 2021
I do know that the team on Most Haunted claim to have filmed a ghost in a remote wood - is this the final proof we all need?
Digger said
Jun 25 11:46 PM, 2021
John Doe wrote:
I do know that the team on Most Haunted claim to have filmed a ghost in a remote wood - is this the final proof we all need?
It's shite like this that gives ghosts a bad name
Digger said
Jun 25 11:51 PM, 2021
John Doe wrote:
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Interesting article on the reality of Ghosts - it's pretty much what I think because subjective experiences don't count as scientific evidence (of which so far there is zero).
If there were such a thing as spirits then surely the Nazi Concentration Camps (for a start) would be utterly seething with them?
If you died at a concentration camp why the fuck would you hang around there?
You might not have a choice in the matter.
By what logic?
If such a thing existed they may have to adhere to laws like the physical world does.
Although in my opinion the discussion is moot because Ghosts defy the Second Law of Thermodynamics and that always wins, always.
Just ask Brian Cox.
Odd that scientists like Cox can be open minded enough about wormholes and folding space both of which are pure theory and unproven. As for 'ghosts' are we not energy and isn't it true energy cannot be destroyed but merely takes another form?
And aren't we all still learning and are the mysterious of the universe laid bare to mankind? You know what the reality is? We know fuck all about what's really out there.
-- Edited by Digger on Friday 25th of June 2021 08:23:44 PM
Well we are heat engines and heat is subject to the Second Law.
Energy does take another form when we die Digs, it goes back into natural biological cycle, our bodies lose energy as heat and organic matter is transferred into the insects, worms, bacteria and other lifeforms that consume us until there is nothing left.
It's an interesting discussion but here is another thing - why on earth would ghosts need clothes?
Also why would we be so special?
We are just another species of animal, life has existed for almost four billion years that's a hell of a lot of spirits although if they did exist there does seem to be a limit, I cant's recall any ghost sighting being older than the Romans although I could be wrong.
I agree we have so very much to discover out there but I don't think survival of consciousness after death is one of them - I would (of course) love to be wrong though.
-- Edited by John Doe on Friday 25th of June 2021 09:01:11 PM
Many civilisations believe in reincarnation. There are documented cases of children remembering past lives. I believe there's a lot more we don't understand and may never understand because in our current life form we're not supposed to understand.
John Doe said
Jun 26 12:03 AM, 2021
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Interesting article on the reality of Ghosts - it's pretty much what I think because subjective experiences don't count as scientific evidence (of which so far there is zero).
If there were such a thing as spirits then surely the Nazi Concentration Camps (for a start) would be utterly seething with them?
If you died at a concentration camp why the fuck would you hang around there?
You might not have a choice in the matter.
By what logic?
If such a thing existed they may have to adhere to laws like the physical world does.
Although in my opinion the discussion is moot because Ghosts defy the Second Law of Thermodynamics and that always wins, always.
Just ask Brian Cox.
Odd that scientists like Cox can be open minded enough about wormholes and folding space both of which are pure theory and unproven. As for 'ghosts' are we not energy and isn't it true energy cannot be destroyed but merely takes another form?
And aren't we all still learning and are the mysterious of the universe laid bare to mankind? You know what the reality is? We know fuck all about what's really out there.
-- Edited by Digger on Friday 25th of June 2021 08:23:44 PM
Well we are heat engines and heat is subject to the Second Law.
Energy does take another form when we die Digs, it goes back into natural biological cycle, our bodies lose energy as heat and organic matter is transferred into the insects, worms, bacteria and other lifeforms that consume us until there is nothing left.
It's an interesting discussion but here is another thing - why on earth would ghosts need clothes?
Also why would we be so special?
We are just another species of animal, life has existed for almost four billion years that's a hell of a lot of spirits although if they did exist there does seem to be a limit, I cant's recall any ghost sighting being older than the Romans although I could be wrong.
I agree we have so very much to discover out there but I don't think survival of consciousness after death is one of them - I would (of course) love to be wrong though.
-- Edited by John Doe on Friday 25th of June 2021 09:01:11 PM
Many civilisations believe in reincarnation. There are documented cases of children remembering past lives. I believe there's a lot more we don't understand and may never understand because in our current life form we're not supposed to understand.
How would the mechanism for reincarnation operate though and who/what decides who gets to be human again or (for example) a tapeworm or a male Anglerfish?
I am sure you are aware of the various scientific explanations for people remembering their so called past lives.
I totally understand your point of view about us not knowing so much yet - after all in evolutionary terms we have only just spread out from the Savanna.
Interesting discussion so far though.
John Doe said
Jun 26 12:06 AM, 2021
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
I do know that the team on Most Haunted claim to have filmed a ghost in a remote wood - is this the final proof we all need?
It's shite like this that gives ghosts a bad name
Digger said
Jun 26 3:32 PM, 2021
John Doe wrote:
How would the mechanism for reincarnation operate though and who/what decides who gets to be human again or (for example) a tapeworm or a male Anglerfish?
I am sure you are aware of the various scientific explanations for people remembering their so called past lives.
I totally understand your point of view about us not knowing so much yet - after all in evolutionary terms we have only just spread out from the Savanna.
Interesting discussion so far though.
Well, that's something not fully understood. Just like we have no idea exactly what lies beyond our telescopes. But while distant planets have to be guessed upon, there are cases of reincarnation that came out of the mouths of babies that couldn't possibly have known the information they gave.
Digger said
Jun 27 11:21 AM, 2021
On the subject of scientists...why does everyone slavishly presume they are right all the time?
John Doe said
Jun 27 7:38 PM, 2021
Digger wrote:
On the subject of scientists...why does everyone slavishly presume they are right all the time?
It's the scientific method that is important not the individual scientist who can sometimes be wrong in their conclusions Digs - their papers are peer reviewed and consensus is reached or challenged.
Testable and repeatable evidence is everything.
The truth then slowly emerges.
You only have to look at our view of Dinosaurs now (forget the films) compared to 50 years ago.
Digger said
Jun 27 11:13 PM, 2021
Often they work on evidence that's flimsy and made up. Like Planet Vulcan. But today's truth is often tomorrow's mistakes.
John Doe said
Jun 27 11:48 PM, 2021
Digger wrote:
Often they work on evidence that's flimsy and made up. Like Planet Vulcan. But today's truth is often tomorrow's mistakes.
I don't recognise that view of scientists in general Digs, it's very, very rare and when they are found out that is their career over with.
Science is self correcting and the whole point is to test things, by learning from the past mistakes of others until a consensus is reached.
Also the Le Verrier theory of Vulcan was almost two centuries ago and not many believed it then anyway - as time goes on science becomes more and more precise building on the life work of thousands of people as the decades roll on.
For example I really think if there was any definitive proof of consciousness after true death we would have found it by now.
Oh and if you want a good laugh there are still a few fanatics known as BANDITS (Birds Are Not Dinosaurs) still floating about there will always be a few nutters (Alan Feduccia is the best known of these idiots), that's just the way of the human race.
-- Edited by John Doe on Sunday 27th of June 2021 11:51:27 PM
Digger said
Jun 28 12:58 PM, 2021
John Doe wrote:
Digger wrote:
Often they work on evidence that's flimsy and made up. Like Planet Vulcan. But today's truth is often tomorrow's mistakes.
I don't recognise that view of scientists in general Digs, it's very, very rare and when they are found out that is their career over with.
Science is self correcting and the whole point is to test things, by learning from the past mistakes of others until a consensus is reached.
Also the Le Verrier theory of Vulcan was almost two centuries ago and not many believed it then anyway - as time goes on science becomes more and more precise building on the life work of thousands of people as the decades roll on.
For example I really think if there was any definitive proof of consciousness after true death we would have found it by now.
Oh and if you want a good laugh there are still a few fanatics known as BANDITS (Birds Are Not Dinosaurs) still floating about there will always be a few nutters (Alan Feduccia is the best known of these idiots), that's just the way of the human race.
-- Edited by John Doe on Sunday 27th of June 2021 11:51:27 PM
I don't think we're meant to know everything. Let's face it, if we all knew for certain that there was a much nicer place to exist than here on planet earth, we'd all be topping ourselves.
John Doe said
Jun 28 3:46 PM, 2021
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Digger wrote:
Often they work on evidence that's flimsy and made up. Like Planet Vulcan. But today's truth is often tomorrow's mistakes.
I don't recognise that view of scientists in general Digs, it's very, very rare and when they are found out that is their career over with.
Science is self correcting and the whole point is to test things, by learning from the past mistakes of others until a consensus is reached.
Also the Le Verrier theory of Vulcan was almost two centuries ago and not many believed it then anyway - as time goes on science becomes more and more precise building on the life work of thousands of people as the decades roll on.
For example I really think if there was any definitive proof of consciousness after true death we would have found it by now.
Oh and if you want a good laugh there are still a few fanatics known as BANDITS (Birds Are Not Dinosaurs) still floating about there will always be a few nutters (Alan Feduccia is the best known of these idiots), that's just the way of the human race.
-- Edited by John Doe on Sunday 27th of June 2021 11:51:27 PM
I don't think we're meant to know everything. Let's face it, if we all knew for certain that there was a much nicer place to exist than here on planet earth, we'd all be topping ourselves.
I always find it strange that the most religious people at funerals always seem to be the most distraught - you would think they would be happy that their loved ones had gone to a better place.
Cognitive dissonance is often baffling to me, I saw a woman on the news of the building collapse thanking God if by a miracle her loved one was alive and also thanking Him if they were dead and 'in His arms' as she put it!
-- Edited by John Doe on Monday 28th of June 2021 03:47:37 PM
Syl said
Jul 2 11:39 AM, 2021
People will find comfort in anything they can in times of tragedy.
If it helps, there is no harm in that.
Subjective experience is as real as anything else - you've narrowed down the definition of reality to suit yourself.
If you want to avoid troubled spirits best keep clear of internet forums.
By what logic?
If such a thing existed they may have to adhere to laws like the physical world does.
Although in my opinion the discussion is moot because Ghosts defy the Second Law of Thermodynamics and that always wins, always.
Just ask Brian Cox.
Odd that scientists like Cox can be open minded enough about wormholes and folding space both of which are pure theory and unproven. As for 'ghosts' are we not energy and isn't it true energy cannot be destroyed but merely takes another form?
And aren't we all still learning and are the mysterious of the universe laid bare to mankind? You know what the reality is? We know fuck all about what's really out there.
-- Edited by Digger on Friday 25th of June 2021 08:23:44 PM
Well we are heat engines and heat is subject to the Second Law.
Energy does take another form when we die Digs, it goes back into natural biological cycle, our bodies lose energy as heat and organic matter is transferred into the insects, worms, bacteria and other lifeforms that consume us until there is nothing left.
It's an interesting discussion but here is another thing - why on earth would ghosts need clothes?
Also why would we be so special?
We are just another species of animal, life has existed for almost four billion years that's a hell of a lot of spirits although if they did exist there does seem to be a limit, I cant's recall any ghost sighting being older than the Romans although I could be wrong.
I agree we have so very much to discover out there but I don't think survival of consciousness after death is one of them - I would (of course) love to be wrong though.
-- Edited by John Doe on Friday 25th of June 2021 09:01:11 PM
I do know that the team on Most Haunted claim to have filmed a ghost in a remote wood - is this the final proof we all need?
It's shite like this that gives ghosts a bad name
Many civilisations believe in reincarnation. There are documented cases of children remembering past lives. I believe there's a lot more we don't understand and may never understand because in our current life form we're not supposed to understand.
How would the mechanism for reincarnation operate though and who/what decides who gets to be human again or (for example) a tapeworm or a male Anglerfish?
I am sure you are aware of the various scientific explanations for people remembering their so called past lives.
I totally understand your point of view about us not knowing so much yet - after all in evolutionary terms we have only just spread out from the Savanna.
Interesting discussion so far though.
Well, that's something not fully understood. Just like we have no idea exactly what lies beyond our telescopes. But while distant planets have to be guessed upon, there are cases of reincarnation that came out of the mouths of babies that couldn't possibly have known the information they gave.
On the subject of scientists...why does everyone slavishly presume they are right all the time?
It's the scientific method that is important not the individual scientist who can sometimes be wrong in their conclusions Digs - their papers are peer reviewed and consensus is reached or challenged.
Testable and repeatable evidence is everything.
The truth then slowly emerges.
You only have to look at our view of Dinosaurs now (forget the films) compared to 50 years ago.
I don't recognise that view of scientists in general Digs, it's very, very rare and when they are found out that is their career over with.
Science is self correcting and the whole point is to test things, by learning from the past mistakes of others until a consensus is reached.
Also the Le Verrier theory of Vulcan was almost two centuries ago and not many believed it then anyway - as time goes on science becomes more and more precise building on the life work of thousands of people as the decades roll on.
For example I really think if there was any definitive proof of consciousness after true death we would have found it by now.
Oh and if you want a good laugh there are still a few fanatics known as BANDITS (Birds Are Not Dinosaurs) still floating about there will always be a few nutters (Alan Feduccia is the best known of these idiots), that's just the way of the human race.
-- Edited by John Doe on Sunday 27th of June 2021 11:51:27 PM
I don't think we're meant to know everything. Let's face it, if we all knew for certain that there was a much nicer place to exist than here on planet earth, we'd all be topping ourselves.
I always find it strange that the most religious people at funerals always seem to be the most distraught - you would think they would be happy that their loved ones had gone to a better place.
Cognitive dissonance is often baffling to me, I saw a woman on the news of the building collapse thanking God if by a miracle her loved one was alive and also thanking Him if they were dead and 'in His arms' as she put it!
-- Edited by John Doe on Monday 28th of June 2021 03:47:37 PM
If it helps, there is no harm in that.