What are ethical standards? Are ethics and morals universally accepted?.
I'm sure you already know what ethical standards are but to answer your questions they are codes / standards of conduct and behaviour which have arisen over time arising from a mixture of philosophy, religion and social discourse.
They are not universally accepted but if they have been codified in some way (like a law or code of conduct) you would expect a person to abide by them, for example not engaging in bribery or corruption if you hold a government or official role.
Are you going anywhere with this?
Barksdale said
Apr 4 3:24 PM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Barksdale wrote:
In a way you have to admire Trump's chutzpah.
Apparently he is the saviour of the working class and is going to lead to their renaissance by re-industrialising the US through tariff protection. Sounds great except JP Morgan indicates the tariffs are the equivalent of the largest tax rises in about 60 years. On top of this it is likely to be inflationary meaning increased costs for already struggling households. This is at the same time as budget proposals extending the TCJA which disproportionately favours the rich and increases the national debt by trillions of $ which is apparently an existential threat to US stability.
I've said it before and I will say it again. This is a heist leading to rich getting ever richer and ordinary people being priced out of being able to live even a comfortable life (we have the same trajectory in the UK.) If Trump is intent on reshoring it will take a long time for the benefits to kick in, if they ever do, for ordinary people. I think 5-10 years is realistic. Doesn't sound great to be struggling for so long to get to some promised land.
Good luck to us all.
The rich are screaming pretty loudly right now..
Not everything is some secret arrangement to make the rich, wealthier..
Dragging out the politics of envy gets old..
Sure, some are but it is evident they will be more capable of weathering the storm than ordinary families and the majority will be just fine. Who will make out like a bandit in an economy where stocks are effectively on sale at a cheap price, houses get foreclosed at a discount, or people have to offload other assets just to meet the cost of living? People holding large amounts of cash. And who might that be? It's not ordinary families who are struggling to get by is it.
With regard to the secret arrangement I'm not sure where you got that from. It's quite the opposite. The rich have no difficulty advocating for their interests or arranging the economy so they benefit in all conditions.
Finally, you've mentioned the politics of envy in our discussions previously. It wasn't an argument then, it isn't an argument now. It's a poor slogan at best. However, if we are doing that let's talk the politics of unfairness. Should ordinary families just roll over and play dead and allow the system to be increasingly rigged against them? Shouldn't they expect a decent life with they get their head down and work hard? As I said above the rich have no problem advocating in their interests. I don't think ordinary families should either and I make no apologies for the same.
Maddog said
Apr 4 3:25 PM, 2025
Barksdale wrote:
Maddog wrote:
What are ethical standards? Are ethics and morals universally accepted?.
I'm sure you already know what ethical standards are but to answer your questions they are codes / standards of conduct and behaviour which have arisen over time arising from a mixture of philosophy, religion and social discourse.
They are not universally accepted but if they have been codified in some way (like a law or code of conduct) you would expect a person to abide by them, for example not engaging in bribery or corruption if you hold a government or official role.
Are you going anywhere with this?
Codified would mean laws are rules..
Those are different and a cry from someone declaring their morals are superior to anothers.
It's too close to "my religion is superior" and we know what a problem that can be.
Barksdale said
Apr 4 3:29 PM, 2025
Vam wrote:
trump is lying again? Say it ain’t so!
This caught my eye, so I thought I’d share it… if (I repeat, IF) those figures are accurate, there’s some major disparity going on 😳
I think the White House released some strange formula to show how they had come up with the "tariffs" other countries apply - not actual rates but based on the difference in trade balances. It allows Trump to portray the US as a victim which goes down a storm with MAGA. Trump fails to mention that US consumers and their standard of living may have increased significantly as a result of that trade however.
Maddog said
Apr 4 3:29 PM, 2025
Vam wrote:
trump is lying again? Say it ain’t so!
This caught my eye, so I thought I’d share it… if (I repeat, IF) those figures are accurate, there’s some major disparity going on 😳
He made up his figures but his numbers include tariffs,.
currency manipulation and trade barriers, not just tariffs.
Chins does manipulate the Yuan..
Barksdale said
Apr 4 3:35 PM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Codified would mean laws are rules..
Those are different and a cry from someone declaring their morals are superior to anothers.
It's too close to "my religion is superior" and we know what a problem that can be.
But sometimes, unless you are a moral relativist, some are superior to others.
For example, saying that sex without consent is still rape even if it occurs in marriage is a morally superior to saying that rape cannot occur in marriage.
I think I get where you are coming from however when it comes to what are socially "accepted" forms of behaviour however.
Maddog said
Apr 4 3:57 PM, 2025
Barksdale wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Codified would mean laws are rules..
Those are different and a cry from someone declaring their morals are superior to anothers.
It's too close to "my religion is superior" and we know what a problem that can be.
But sometimes, unless you are a moral relativist, some are superior to others.
For example, saying that sex without consent is still rape even if it occurs in marriage is a morally superior to saying that rape cannot occur in marriage.
I think I get where you are coming from however when it comes to what are socially "accepted" forms of behaviour however.
Yes, I'm coming from the position that I'm not looking for self righteousness from leaders, and morality is still largely subjective. That's why we have laws and rules of conduct for certain positions.
Saying we have to challenge Trump because of morality is problematic to me. Challenge his ideas and hold him accountable for not doing his job.
One of our most "moral" presidents just died. He was a good and decent human being by all accounts. However, in terms of his performance, he was the worst in my lifetime.
Trump could take that title. But it won't be because of his morality, but his poor performance..
Vam said
Apr 4 4:08 PM, 2025
Barksdale wrote:
Vam wrote:
trump is lying again? Say it ain’t so!
This caught my eye, so I thought I’d share it… if (I repeat, IF) those figures are accurate, there’s some major disparity going on 😳
I think the White House released some strange formula to show how they had come up with the "tariffs" other countries apply - not actual rates but based on the difference in trade balances. It allows Trump to portray the US as a victim which goes down a storm with MAGA. Trump fails to mention that US consumers and their standard of living may have increased significantly as a result of that trade however.
Did they use an abacus?
But yeah, what you’re saying makes sense.
Anonymous said
Apr 4 4:35 PM, 2025
Barksdale wrote:
...
I've said it before and I will say it again. This is a heist leading to rich getting ever richer ...
Someone agrees with you
"This is a great time to get rich, richer than ever before"
-- Edited by Vam on Saturday 5th of April 2025 09:10:59 AM
Vam said
Apr 5 9:24 AM, 2025
“ Nowhere on Earth is safe ….. A group of barren, uninhabited volcanic islands near Antarctica, covered in glaciers and home to penguins, has been swept up in Donald Trump’s trade war, as the US president hit them with a 10% tariff on goods. “
Don’t blame just Trump for this. Blame every congressional Republican. They own this tariff disaster too. In fact, they own every stupid, ignorant, cruel, authoritarian, un-American thing Trump does.
Cowards. Enablers. Accomplices. - Joe Walsh on X
🎯👏🏻👏🏻 Can’t argue with that.
Anonymous said
Apr 5 9:36 AM, 2025
Vam wrote:
“ Nowhere on Earth is safe ….. A group of barren, uninhabited volcanic islands near Antarctica, covered in glaciers and home to penguins, has been swept up in Donald Trump’s trade war, as the US president hit them with a 10% tariff on goods. “
And there's the Falkland Islands, one of his 'worst offenders'. A small community who depend on selling fish to the US. Their 'offence' is that they buy much less from the US than they sell - now clobbered with 41% tariffs.
Anonymous said
Apr 5 10:56 AM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Barksdale wrote:
Maddog wrote:
What are ethical standards? Are ethics and morals universally accepted?.
I'm sure you already know what ethical standards are but to answer your questions they are codes / standards of conduct and behaviour which have arisen over time arising from a mixture of philosophy, religion and social discourse.
They are not universally accepted but if they have been codified in some way (like a law or code of conduct) you would expect a person to abide by them, for example not engaging in bribery or corruption if you hold a government or official role.
Are you going anywhere with this?
Codified would mean laws are rules..
Those are different and a cry from someone declaring their morals are superior to anothers.
It's too close to "my religion is superior" and we know what a problem that can be.
You're conflating ethics and morals, but they're different things.
Syl said
Apr 5 12:05 PM, 2025
Vam wrote:
“ Nowhere on Earth is safe ….. A group of barren, uninhabited volcanic islands near Antarctica, covered in glaciers and home to penguins, has been swept up in Donald Trump’s trade war, as the US president hit them with a 10% tariff on goods. “
I had a good laugh when this was broadcast...I wonder how long will it be before he is a laughing stock the world over?....surely not long now.
Vam said
Apr 5 12:30 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Vam wrote:
“ Nowhere on Earth is safe ….. A group of barren, uninhabited volcanic islands near Antarctica, covered in glaciers and home to penguins, has been swept up in Donald Trump’s trade war, as the US president hit them with a 10% tariff on goods. “
I had a good laugh when this was broadcast...I wonder how long will it be before he is a laughing stock the world over?....surely not long now.
He’s already a laughingstock in America and the whole world over - apart from his blinkered feeble-minded cult.
My new avi is a shot of penguin leaders convening, to debate reciprocal tariffs to impose on the US
Vam said
Apr 5 12:40 PM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
And there's the Falkland Islands, one of his 'worst offenders'. A small community who depend on selling fish to the US. Their 'offence' is that they buy much less from the US than they sell - now clobbered with 41% tariffs.
Damn - I missed that one. It’s just all so surreal!
There are countless malignant narcissists and malevolent sociopaths like him all over the world. But none of them have the immense power his title affords him.
trump is lying again? Say it ain’t so!
This caught my eye, so I thought I’d share it… if (I repeat, IF) those figures are accurate, there’s some major disparity going on 😳
https://www.instagram.com/projectliberal/p/DH_Kv-iR2sp/
I'm sure you already know what ethical standards are but to answer your questions they are codes / standards of conduct and behaviour which have arisen over time arising from a mixture of philosophy, religion and social discourse.
They are not universally accepted but if they have been codified in some way (like a law or code of conduct) you would expect a person to abide by them, for example not engaging in bribery or corruption if you hold a government or official role.
Are you going anywhere with this?
Sure, some are but it is evident they will be more capable of weathering the storm than ordinary families and the majority will be just fine. Who will make out like a bandit in an economy where stocks are effectively on sale at a cheap price, houses get foreclosed at a discount, or people have to offload other assets just to meet the cost of living? People holding large amounts of cash. And who might that be? It's not ordinary families who are struggling to get by is it.
With regard to the secret arrangement I'm not sure where you got that from. It's quite the opposite. The rich have no difficulty advocating for their interests or arranging the economy so they benefit in all conditions.
Finally, you've mentioned the politics of envy in our discussions previously. It wasn't an argument then, it isn't an argument now. It's a poor slogan at best. However, if we are doing that let's talk the politics of unfairness. Should ordinary families just roll over and play dead and allow the system to be increasingly rigged against them? Shouldn't they expect a decent life with they get their head down and work hard? As I said above the rich have no problem advocating in their interests. I don't think ordinary families should either and I make no apologies for the same.
Codified would mean laws are rules..
Those are different and a cry from someone declaring their morals are superior to anothers.
It's too close to "my religion is superior" and we know what a problem that can be.
I think the White House released some strange formula to show how they had come up with the "tariffs" other countries apply - not actual rates but based on the difference in trade balances. It allows Trump to portray the US as a victim which goes down a storm with MAGA. Trump fails to mention that US consumers and their standard of living may have increased significantly as a result of that trade however.
He made up his figures but his numbers include tariffs,.
currency manipulation and trade barriers, not just tariffs.
Chins does manipulate the Yuan..
But sometimes, unless you are a moral relativist, some are superior to others.
For example, saying that sex without consent is still rape even if it occurs in marriage is a morally superior to saying that rape cannot occur in marriage.
I think I get where you are coming from however when it comes to what are socially "accepted" forms of behaviour however.
Yes, I'm coming from the position that I'm not looking for self righteousness from leaders, and morality is still largely subjective. That's why we have laws and rules of conduct for certain positions.
Saying we have to challenge Trump because of morality is problematic to me. Challenge his ideas and hold him accountable for not doing his job.
One of our most "moral" presidents just died. He was a good and decent human being by all accounts. However, in terms of his performance, he was the worst in my lifetime.
Trump could take that title. But it won't be because of his morality, but his poor performance..
Did they use an abacus?
But yeah, what you’re saying makes sense.
Someone agrees with you
"This is a great time to get rich, richer than ever before"
(Trump, today)
While I'm a free trader, Trump is consistent. Now the folks that used to support what he said, aren't..
While making some light hearted fun of the Scots and French..
www.facebook.com/share/r/1CLTDpwWYr/
So did Dave Chappelle (years ago)
-- Edited by Vam on Saturday 5th of April 2025 09:10:59 AM
“ Nowhere on Earth is safe ….. A group of barren, uninhabited volcanic islands near Antarctica, covered in glaciers and home to penguins, has been swept up in Donald Trump’s trade war, as the US president hit them with a 10% tariff on goods. “
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/03/donald-trump-tariffs-antarctica-uninhabited-heard-mcdonald-islands
Penguin tariffs = 10% Putin tariffs = Zero
Don’t blame just Trump for this. Blame every congressional Republican. They own this tariff disaster too. In fact, they own every stupid, ignorant, cruel, authoritarian, un-American thing Trump does.
Cowards. Enablers. Accomplices. - Joe Walsh on X
🎯👏🏻👏🏻 Can’t argue with that.
And there's the Falkland Islands, one of his 'worst offenders'. A small community who depend on selling fish to the US. Their 'offence' is that they buy much less from the US than they sell - now clobbered with 41% tariffs.
You're conflating ethics and morals, but they're different things.
I had a good laugh when this was broadcast...I wonder how long will it be before he is a laughing stock the world over?....surely not long now.
He’s already a laughingstock in America and the whole world over - apart from his blinkered feeble-minded cult.
My new avi is a shot of penguin leaders convening, to debate reciprocal tariffs to impose on the US
There are countless malignant narcissists and malevolent sociopaths like him all over the world. But none of them have the immense power his title affords him.