The worldwide death toll has just passed 3 million, we are very lucky here to have had such an efficient vaccination program, in may countries fatalities are still accelerating fast.
The vaccination programme has been a great success, unfortunately our border control has been, and still is abysmal.
-- Edited by Syl on Saturday 17th of April 2021 12:08:37 AM
Hmm. Proof is in the pudding regarding borders. No harm at present. So far since vaccination and this lockdown. Infection rates aren't rising.
I recall a few weeks ago worries about South African variant in a part of the Country nothing major came of that.
Syl said
Apr 17 12:21 AM, 2021
There are quite a lot of stories that seem to be scaremongering about virus mutations, it's difficult to know the truth.
One surefire way of finding out is waiting to see if the infection rate rises.
What is certain, our borders have not been controled as well as they should have been. We are an island, if borders had been managed better from the start we would not have had 130,000 deaths, of that I am certain.....and that is 100% down to government ruling.
JP said
Apr 17 12:29 AM, 2021
Understanding the scale of the benefits achievable with tighter border control is an important factor in weighing such actions against their relative cost. Yet of equal importance is that we challenge anachronistic assumptions of the role played by national borders in the economy and the lives of the population.
While a century ago, only a very small proportion of the population had ever left the country, Britain in 2021 is (or until very recently was) a deeply interconnected place. As of early 2020, some9.5 million people, or 14% of the UK populationwas foreign-born. In 2017, it was estimated that a third of new births were toone or more foreign-born parents. These are the people who are most affected by closed borders.
Government ministers have repeatedly stoked the idea that it is primarily holidaymakers and rule-breakers who would be affected by tougher travel restrictions. Patel has attacked influencers for “unacceptable behaviour”, while Health Secretary Matt Hancock’s,assertionthat “there should be no weekends in Dubai” has been underscored implicitly by various news outlets’ persistent partnering of news on border policy with images of holidaymakers.
Yet this narrative is highly misleading. Even before the pandemic, with tourism unconstrained, visits to friends and relatives abroad comprised more than 25% of outbound trips and30% of inbound trips to the UK. With a growing number of UK families now transnational, closing borders means separating not only countries but millions of households and extended families with them.
The border trade-off
Border closures may be acceptable in the immediate term, but figuring them into longer-term coronavirus planning is a decision with far-reaching consequences. Australia, New Zealand and others have imposed these measures as a part of a trade-off for very low prevalence and minimal domestic restriction: undoubtedly a good deal, but not a costless one.
Australia’s hard border controls have come at a cost.Richard Wainwright/EPA
The plight of Australian families separated by border closures has beenwidely documented, with many facing either long-term separation from their loved ones, or a lose-lose trade-off between work and family.The implications in terms of mental healthare substantial in such cases and need to be weighed against potential benefits.
Indeed, for this and related reasons, the World Health Organization hasadvised againsttravel restrictions.
As the WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesusput it last year, “It is going to be almost impossible for individual countries to keep their borders shut for the foreseeable future.”
Proportionate controls
This is important to recognise when advocating for border restrictions because it shapes how the endgame of these restrictions is perceived. Current forecasts suggest itwill take yearsfor the world’s population to be vaccinated against COVID-19 and even then the disease – and its variants –will continue to circulate.
Border controls are important, but they must be proportionate and variable, rather than isolationist. Above all, borders must not be framed as a public good, even in exceptional circumstances. Doing so not only leads COVID-19 policy down an ineffectual route but provides a politically expedient distraction from problems the very much begin at home.
Obviously the border discussion is a highly divisive subject. Personally I understand the idea is afar from straightforward one. Most of us don't understand the complications etc In my view the above well balanced article explains the ins and outs of it very well. That's interesting how WHO don't recommend it.
JP said
Apr 17 12:31 AM, 2021
Syl wrote:
There are quite a lot of stories that seem to be scaremongering about virus mutations, it's difficult to know the truth. One surefire way of finding out is waiting to see if the infection rate rises.
What is certain, our borders have not been controled as well as they should have been. We are an island, if borders had been managed better from the start we would not have had 130,000 deaths, of that I am certain.....and that is 100% down to government ruling.
I've just posted a well thought out and balanced article about this I thought it was at least.
In my view it is far from straightforward.
JP said
Apr 17 12:35 AM, 2021
How do you figure other Countries have had as many deaths. There's at least 11 Countries above, similar, or in our ballpark now in death per capita terms.
Bad border control in those places also?
I could point you to places who've had tight borders all throughout and it hasn't appeared to help. You I know could also point me to Countries that have had tight borders all throughout. And it does appear to have worked...
As per with covid stuff its bloody complicated.
-- Edited by JP on Saturday 17th of April 2021 12:36:19 AM
Syl said
Apr 17 5:08 PM, 2021
JP wrote:
How do you figure other Countries have had as many deaths. There's at least 11 Countries above, similar, or in our ballpark now in death per capita terms.
Bad border control in those places also?
I could point you to places who've had tight borders all throughout and it hasn't appeared to help. You I know could also point me to Countries that have had tight borders all throughout. And it does appear to have worked...
As per with covid stuff its bloody complicated.
-- Edited by JP on Saturday 17th of April 2021 12:36:19 AM
We are an island, and it just stands to reason (to me) that when a virus is so infectious and so easily mutated, it would make sense to prevent as much as possible people entering and leaving.
The SA variant you mentioned before started off with a handful of cases, all accounted for and all isolated, there is now 600 people who have contacted it, 56 new cases last week who knows how many next week?
The first case a few weeks ago was traced to someone who travelled in....had the borders been better controlled it could not have spread in the first place.
We now have a variant spreading here from India....
JP said
Apr 17 9:11 PM, 2021
Tbh we could all claim that lots of things would have been different if this or that was done differently/at a specific time/a different time. Claim it. Assume it. In hindsight.
Lockdowns earlier. A Lockdown for a year or more would have probably saved more lives than anything else by some margin....
Experts could have recommended mask wearing some time before they actually did so. Instead of continually saying that the evidence was weak until that point when they changed their minds. Maybe earlier mask wearing would have saved a fair number of lives.
Ultimately it's all hindsight to one degree or another. Whether it's an expert or a layperson. Saying it. Claiming it. Or assuming that something would have been markedly different if things were done their way. In truth everyone has largely been pissing in the wind the last year or so.
The way experts are always countering each other tells that story. There will no doubt be an article somewhere by another expert that counters the one that I posted on here last night.
Take today. The Guardian website. One expert is claiming he's terribly worried about the SA variant, and the possible Indian one(double mutation) being over here. He claims it could very well affect how we open up further down the line, the roadmap. And also harm the vaccination progress. Yet another expert on that very same website claims that he doesn't foresee a problem occurring he doesn't see the vaccination progress being impeded neither the roadmap. He actually called the other guy overly pessimistic. They both said more that just what I have. But that was the gist of it.
Syl said
Apr 18 1:34 PM, 2021
A lot was definitely trial and error....I still think not controlling the borders sooner and closer has been a big mistake though.
JP said
Apr 18 5:53 PM, 2021
Ok. How much it actually helps though depends on whom you ask. As various articles will prove.
Personally I believe covid infections were bubbling under the surface and growing quite substantially in this Country. Before anyone really started worrying and fretting about it here, that includes Government and UK experts. Border controls do very little to help overall when community infections are already rife. That's what most experts will tell us. Witty and Vallance also used to say that.
Below.. is what a Minister, Dr Hopkins, and another expert have said today. 3 separate interviews regarding the Indian variant. Perspective is almost always key imo.
There is not yet enough data to classify it as a "variant of concern", a leading scientist has said.
But Dr Susan Hopkins of Public Health England said some cases had been found in the UK that were not linked to travel, with their origin now being investigated.
More than 70 cases have been identified in England and Scotland.
It is also too soon to decide if India should be put on the government's travel "red list", Dr Hopkins said.
Asked if India should be added to the government's "red list" of banned countries, Environment Secretary George Eustice said: "We're allowing people in from India provided they have had a pre-departure test, provided they then quarantine - albeit not in a hotel or a designated facility, but quarantine at home - and then have a test at two and eight days.
"So there are quite a lot of robust tests and checks for anybody coming into the country."
He said the matter was kept "under regular review" and the government was taking scientific advice - adding that he believed the prime minister's trip to India should still go ahead later this month.
Boris Johnson has already scaled down his trip due to the rising number of cases - India has reported more than 150,000 Covid cases a day for the past three weeks.
Mr Eustice also told Sky's Sophy Ridge on Sunday that business needed to continue "with the right precautions" in place.
Speaking about other variants, Dr Hopkins also told the BBC the current vaccines were "not as good against the South African variant as they are against our own (variant) B117 at preventing infection and transmission" and that caution was still required.
But she said it was highly likely they would still be effective in reducing deaths and hospitalisations.
Dr Hopkins, chief medical adviser for NHS Test and Trace, told the Andrew Marr Show: "We have seen a couple of cases [of the Indian variant] that haven't arisen from travel but we're still trying to undergo the investigations to look in great detail at where they might have acquired it from.
"To escalate it up the ranking we need to know that it is increased transmissibility, increased severity or vaccine evading, and we just don't have that yet."
Public Health England says 73 cases of the variant first identified in India have been found in England, and four in Scotland.
Epidemiologist Dr Mike Tildesley said work needed to be done urgently on finding out more about the variant.
He said: "I would always say when these new variants do emerge it is a concern and it's really important that we get as much information as we can as quickly as possible.
"What's concerning about the Indian variant is there appear to be two mutations which... may make the vaccines less effective, and may make the virus more transmissible.
"The key thing here is 'may'. We are still trying to gather evidence about this."
Syl said
Apr 18 6:34 PM, 2021
The problem is, whilst all the data is being evaluated more people are coming in and going out from India...this I know because I know people who have done so.
IF this new variant managed to get around the vaccinations....we are taking another step backwards.
JP said
Apr 19 12:00 AM, 2021
Did they get a pre-departure negative test? Which is supposed to be required.
Every time I see variants spoken about so far basically all the experts seem to say current vaccines should still take care of severe illness and deaths to a large extent. Essentially no matter what. They appear very confident of that aspect.
JP said
Apr 19 12:13 AM, 2021
Granted the million dollar question is what if "so far" becomes not anymore. That will put us back.
But on the other hand another million dollar question is how do you balance this out. How long do you go on living this alien life. This could go around and around in circles for years. Worldwide. How long are people expected to hold back. Not go on Holiday abroad. Not travel.
No one knows. How long is a piece of string. The ongoing uncertainty is what really gets to many people.
-- Edited by JP on Monday 19th of April 2021 12:20:05 AM
Twizzler said
Apr 19 3:48 PM, 2021
New Indian strain has surfaced in London. Plus all those people enjoying themselves this weekend,
no social distancing and nobody wearing face masks, you’d better
start getting in your toilet rolls and dried goods, another lockdown is
looming!
JP said
Apr 19 4:37 PM, 2021
Twiz I'm not so sure look at all the latest figures. 4 deaths today for instance. Not since last July/August has it been so low. All figures are still going down. And have been continually doing so for weeks. Whereas several other Countries are increasingly getting worse. Chin up Twiz. Things are still looking decent. Remember we started easing things from March 8th. A little while ago now.
@Syl... This has happened before after we discuss an issue the very next day fresh news and changes occur. Strange. Lol The health security agency have put India on the red list.
-- Edited by JP on Monday 19th of April 2021 04:38:27 PM
Syl said
Apr 19 4:45 PM, 2021
Yep, just heard it on the news. Boris has cancelled his trip to India and from Friday people arriving from there will have to quarantine in special designated hotels.
I sincerely hope there wont be another lockdown. I'm not sure many people, especially the ones who have just tasted freedom again after being isolated for a year, will be able to stand it.
Twizzler said
Apr 20 8:05 AM, 2021
JP wrote:
Twiz I'm not so sure look at all the latest figures. 4 deaths today for instance. Not since last July/August has it been so low. All figures are still going down. And have been continually doing so for weeks. Whereas several other Countries are increasingly getting worse. Chin up Twiz. Things are still looking decent. Remember we started easing things from March 8th. A little while ago now.
@Syl... This has happened before after we discuss an issue the very next day fresh news and changes occur. Strange. Lol The health security agency have put India on the red list.
-- Edited by JP on Monday 19th of April 2021 04:38:27 PM
I went out for the first time since Christmas yesterday. Starting slowly, but pubs and restaurants
will be some time off yet!
Syl said
Apr 20 5:54 PM, 2021
Twizzler wrote:
JP wrote:
Twiz I'm not so sure look at all the latest figures. 4 deaths today for instance. Not since last July/August has it been so low. All figures are still going down. And have been continually doing so for weeks. Whereas several other Countries are increasingly getting worse. Chin up Twiz. Things are still looking decent. Remember we started easing things from March 8th. A little while ago now.
@Syl... This has happened before after we discuss an issue the very next day fresh news and changes occur. Strange. Lol The health security agency have put India on the red list.
-- Edited by JP on Monday 19th of April 2021 04:38:27 PM
I went out for the first time since Christmas yesterday. Starting slowly, but pubs and restaurants
will be some time off yet!
Good for you Twizzler, take it in your own time.
I have had my 2nd vaccination now, we have been going out for a bit, but I do feel safer now a high % of the population have been vaccinated, over 10 million have now had their 2nd jab.
John Doe said
Apr 25 12:22 AM, 2021
The recent horrific scenes in India are only the tip of the iceberg - officials all over the country are covering up the true scale of the death toll.
Experts estimate it could be five times what the stated figures are (currently almost 3,000 people passing daily so it could really be 15,000 dying every 24 hours).
The Government allowing huge religious 'super-spreader' festivals like Kumbh Mela to go ahead did not exactly help matters either.
-- Edited by John Doe on Sunday 25th of April 2021 12:29:06 AM
Anonymous said
Apr 25 12:36 AM, 2021
We also have to worry about the vaccine induced polio epidemic that is now spreading across Africa and Pakistan which is physically part of India.
The MSM have gone very quiet o this because an inconvenient truth is this vaccine induced polio is much worse than the wild polio that we were celebrating having just gotten rid of.
This polio variant is much harder on it's victims than the wild variant.
It paralyses more of of its victims.
We have a large movement of people between the UK and India and Pakistan on a daily basis normally so why the hell didn't we stop travel weeks ago... as soon as we knew this shit?
Two or three months ago in fact nothing to do with Covid and everything to do with vaccine induced polio?
The future news headlines i fear are written in this post and as fr as I know there is no vaccine against this vaccine induced problem.
More lock downs but will we be told the truth about why we are facing ever harsher lockdowns?
JP said
Apr 25 3:14 PM, 2021
John Doe wrote:
The recent horrific scenes in India are only the tip of the iceberg - officials all over the country are covering up the true scale of the death toll.
Experts estimate it could be five times what the stated figures are (currently almost 3,000 people passing daily so it could really be 15,000 dying every 24 hours).
The Government allowing huge religious 'super-spreader' festivals like Kumbh Mela to go ahead did not exactly help matters either.
-- Edited by John Doe on Sunday 25th of April 2021 12:29:06 AM
As we have spoken about a number of times on here in the last year or so. A number of Countries seemingly are covering up figures to one degree or another.
Russia for example at the start of April a statistics agency over there said that deaths were at about 225,000. At that time official figures were around 95,000 or so.
Brazil figures are probably a fair bit out. China also.
Even somewhere like France. Most of their daily figures state they are Hospital figures only. They seem to add some care home and other setting figures randomly on occasion. Not very often at all. Something just doesn't seem to add up regarding their general statistics also. They have had high and fairly high infection levels for some weeks now. Numbers in ICU are higher than ours has ever been. Numbers in Hospital are still at around 25,000. Yet during this bad period like some other ones in past also death numbers almost always stay at 300 to 350 at most. Which seems quite low considering the numbers of infections they've had for some weeks now, people in ICU, and Hospital.
And as you say India. Is horrific right now. Whether their reporting of infection and death has been accurate or not throughout who knows. They have had, and still have at the moment one of the lower death per capita figures in the World.
-- Edited by JP on Sunday 25th of April 2021 03:17:16 PM
-- Edited by JP on Sunday 25th of April 2021 03:19:04 PM
-- Edited by JP on Sunday 25th of April 2021 03:20:40 PM
Hmm. Proof is in the pudding regarding borders. No harm at present. So far since vaccination and this lockdown. Infection rates aren't rising.
I recall a few weeks ago worries about South African variant in a part of the Country nothing major came of that.
One surefire way of finding out is waiting to see if the infection rate rises.
What is certain, our borders have not been controled as well as they should have been. We are an island, if borders had been managed better from the start we would not have had 130,000 deaths, of that I am certain.....and that is 100% down to government ruling.
Understanding the scale of the benefits achievable with tighter border control is an important factor in weighing such actions against their relative cost. Yet of equal importance is that we challenge anachronistic assumptions of the role played by national borders in the economy and the lives of the population.
While a century ago, only a very small proportion of the population had ever left the country, Britain in 2021 is (or until very recently was) a deeply interconnected place. As of early 2020, some 9.5 million people, or 14% of the UK population was foreign-born. In 2017, it was estimated that a third of new births were to one or more foreign-born parents. These are the people who are most affected by closed borders.
Government ministers have repeatedly stoked the idea that it is primarily holidaymakers and rule-breakers who would be affected by tougher travel restrictions. Patel has attacked influencers for “unacceptable behaviour”, while Health Secretary Matt Hancock’s, assertion that “there should be no weekends in Dubai” has been underscored implicitly by various news outlets’ persistent partnering of news on border policy with images of holidaymakers.
Yet this narrative is highly misleading. Even before the pandemic, with tourism unconstrained, visits to friends and relatives abroad comprised more than 25% of outbound trips and 30% of inbound trips to the UK. With a growing number of UK families now transnational, closing borders means separating not only countries but millions of households and extended families with them.
The border trade-off
Border closures may be acceptable in the immediate term, but figuring them into longer-term coronavirus planning is a decision with far-reaching consequences. Australia, New Zealand and others have imposed these measures as a part of a trade-off for very low prevalence and minimal domestic restriction: undoubtedly a good deal, but not a costless one.
The plight of Australian families separated by border closures has been widely documented, with many facing either long-term separation from their loved ones, or a lose-lose trade-off between work and family. The implications in terms of mental health are substantial in such cases and need to be weighed against potential benefits.
Indeed, for this and related reasons, the World Health Organization has advised against travel restrictions.
As the WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus put it last year, “It is going to be almost impossible for individual countries to keep their borders shut for the foreseeable future.”
Proportionate controls
This is important to recognise when advocating for border restrictions because it shapes how the endgame of these restrictions is perceived. Current forecasts suggest it will take years for the world’s population to be vaccinated against COVID-19 and even then the disease – and its variants – will continue to circulate.
While there is undoubtedly a case to be made for temporary and targeted border restrictions in some form, there is little convincing evidence that they will work in this case.
Border controls are important, but they must be proportionate and variable, rather than isolationist. Above all, borders must not be framed as a public good, even in exceptional circumstances. Doing so not only leads COVID-19 policy down an ineffectual route but provides a politically expedient distraction from problems the very much begin at home.
Obviously the border discussion is a highly divisive subject. Personally I understand the idea is afar from straightforward one. Most of us don't understand the complications etc In my view the above well balanced article explains the ins and outs of it very well. That's interesting how WHO don't recommend it.
I've just posted a well thought out and balanced article about this I thought it was at least.
In my view it is far from straightforward.
How do you figure other Countries have had as many deaths. There's at least 11 Countries above, similar, or in our ballpark now in death per capita terms.
Bad border control in those places also?
I could point you to places who've had tight borders all throughout and it hasn't appeared to help. You I know could also point me to Countries that have had tight borders all throughout. And it does appear to have worked...
As per with covid stuff its bloody complicated.
-- Edited by JP on Saturday 17th of April 2021 12:36:19 AM
We are an island, and it just stands to reason (to me) that when a virus is so infectious and so easily mutated, it would make sense to prevent as much as possible people entering and leaving.
The SA variant you mentioned before started off with a handful of cases, all accounted for and all isolated, there is now 600 people who have contacted it, 56 new cases last week who knows how many next week?
The first case a few weeks ago was traced to someone who travelled in....had the borders been better controlled it could not have spread in the first place.
We now have a variant spreading here from India....
Lockdowns earlier. A Lockdown for a year or more would have probably saved more lives than anything else by some margin....
Experts could have recommended mask wearing some time before they actually did so. Instead of continually saying that the evidence was weak until that point when they changed their minds. Maybe earlier mask wearing would have saved a fair number of lives.
Ultimately it's all hindsight to one degree or another. Whether it's an expert or a layperson. Saying it. Claiming it. Or assuming that something would have been markedly different if things were done their way. In truth everyone has largely been pissing in the wind the last year or so.
The way experts are always countering each other tells that story. There will no doubt be an article somewhere by another expert that counters the one that I posted on here last night.
Take today. The Guardian website. One expert is claiming he's terribly worried about the SA variant, and the possible Indian one(double mutation) being over here. He claims it could very well affect how we open up further down the line, the roadmap. And also harm the vaccination progress. Yet another expert on that very same website claims that he doesn't foresee a problem occurring he doesn't see the vaccination progress being impeded neither the roadmap. He actually called the other guy overly pessimistic. They both said more that just what I have. But that was the gist of it.
Ok. How much it actually helps though depends on whom you ask. As various articles will prove.
Personally I believe covid infections were bubbling under the surface and growing quite substantially in this Country. Before anyone really started worrying and fretting about it here, that includes Government and UK experts. Border controls do very little to help overall when community infections are already rife. That's what most experts will tell us. Witty and Vallance also used to say that.
Below.. is what a Minister, Dr Hopkins, and another expert have said today. 3 separate interviews regarding the Indian variant. Perspective is almost always key imo.
There is not yet enough data to classify it as a "variant of concern", a leading scientist has said.
But Dr Susan Hopkins of Public Health England said some cases had been found in the UK that were not linked to travel, with their origin now being investigated.
More than 70 cases have been identified in England and Scotland.
It is also too soon to decide if India should be put on the government's travel "red list", Dr Hopkins said.
Asked if India should be added to the government's "red list" of banned countries, Environment Secretary George Eustice said: "We're allowing people in from India provided they have had a pre-departure test, provided they then quarantine - albeit not in a hotel or a designated facility, but quarantine at home - and then have a test at two and eight days.
"So there are quite a lot of robust tests and checks for anybody coming into the country."
He said the matter was kept "under regular review" and the government was taking scientific advice - adding that he believed the prime minister's trip to India should still go ahead later this month.
Boris Johnson has already scaled down his trip due to the rising number of cases - India has reported more than 150,000 Covid cases a day for the past three weeks.
Mr Eustice also told Sky's Sophy Ridge on Sunday that business needed to continue "with the right precautions" in place.
Speaking about other variants, Dr Hopkins also told the BBC the current vaccines were "not as good against the South African variant as they are against our own (variant) B117 at preventing infection and transmission" and that caution was still required.
But she said it was highly likely they would still be effective in reducing deaths and hospitalisations.
Dr Hopkins, chief medical adviser for NHS Test and Trace, told the Andrew Marr Show: "We have seen a couple of cases [of the Indian variant] that haven't arisen from travel but we're still trying to undergo the investigations to look in great detail at where they might have acquired it from.
"To escalate it up the ranking we need to know that it is increased transmissibility, increased severity or vaccine evading, and we just don't have that yet."
Public Health England says 73 cases of the variant first identified in India have been found in England, and four in Scotland.
Epidemiologist Dr Mike Tildesley said work needed to be done urgently on finding out more about the variant.
He said: "I would always say when these new variants do emerge it is a concern and it's really important that we get as much information as we can as quickly as possible.
"What's concerning about the Indian variant is there appear to be two mutations which... may make the vaccines less effective, and may make the virus more transmissible.
"The key thing here is 'may'. We are still trying to gather evidence about this."
IF this new variant managed to get around the vaccinations....we are taking another step backwards.
Every time I see variants spoken about so far basically all the experts seem to say current vaccines should still take care of severe illness and deaths to a large extent. Essentially no matter what. They appear very confident of that aspect.
Granted the million dollar question is what if "so far" becomes not anymore. That will put us back.
But on the other hand another million dollar question is how do you balance this out. How long do you go on living this alien life. This could go around and around in circles for years. Worldwide. How long are people expected to hold back. Not go on Holiday abroad. Not travel.
No one knows. How long is a piece of string. The ongoing uncertainty is what really gets to many people.
-- Edited by JP on Monday 19th of April 2021 12:20:05 AM
New Indian strain has surfaced in London.
Plus all those people enjoying themselves this weekend,
no social distancing and nobody wearing face masks, you’d better
start getting in your toilet rolls and dried goods, another lockdown is
looming!
Twiz I'm not so sure look at all the latest figures. 4 deaths today for instance. Not since last July/August has it been so low. All figures are still going down. And have been continually doing so for weeks. Whereas several other Countries are increasingly getting worse. Chin up Twiz. Things are still looking decent. Remember we started easing things from March 8th. A little while ago now.
@Syl... This has happened before after we discuss an issue the very next day fresh news and changes occur. Strange. Lol The health security agency have put India on the red list.
-- Edited by JP on Monday 19th of April 2021 04:38:27 PM
I sincerely hope there wont be another lockdown. I'm not sure many people, especially the ones who have just tasted freedom again after being isolated for a year, will be able to stand it.
I went out for the first time since Christmas yesterday. Starting slowly, but pubs and restaurants
will be some time off yet!
Good for you Twizzler, take it in your own time.
I have had my 2nd vaccination now, we have been going out for a bit, but I do feel safer now a high % of the population have been vaccinated, over 10 million have now had their 2nd jab.
The recent horrific scenes in India are only the tip of the iceberg - officials all over the country are covering up the true scale of the death toll.
Experts estimate it could be five times what the stated figures are (currently almost 3,000 people passing daily so it could really be 15,000 dying every 24 hours).
The Government allowing huge religious 'super-spreader' festivals like Kumbh Mela to go ahead did not exactly help matters either.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/24/world/asia/india-coronavirus-deaths.html
-- Edited by John Doe on Sunday 25th of April 2021 12:29:06 AM
We also have to worry about the vaccine induced polio epidemic that is now spreading across Africa and Pakistan which is physically part of India.
The MSM have gone very quiet o this because an inconvenient truth is this vaccine induced polio is much worse than the wild polio that we were celebrating having just gotten rid of.
This polio variant is much harder on it's victims than the wild variant.
It paralyses more of of its victims.
We have a large movement of people between the UK and India and Pakistan on a daily basis normally so why the hell didn't we stop travel weeks ago... as soon as we knew this shit?
Two or three months ago in fact nothing to do with Covid and everything to do with vaccine induced polio?
The future news headlines i fear are written in this post and as fr as I know there is no vaccine against this vaccine induced problem.
More lock downs but will we be told the truth about why we are facing ever harsher lockdowns?
As we have spoken about a number of times on here in the last year or so. A number of Countries seemingly are covering up figures to one degree or another.
Russia for example at the start of April a statistics agency over there said that deaths were at about 225,000. At that time official figures were around 95,000 or so.
Brazil figures are probably a fair bit out. China also.
Even somewhere like France. Most of their daily figures state they are Hospital figures only. They seem to add some care home and other setting figures randomly on occasion. Not very often at all. Something just doesn't seem to add up regarding their general statistics also. They have had high and fairly high infection levels for some weeks now. Numbers in ICU are higher than ours has ever been. Numbers in Hospital are still at around 25,000. Yet during this bad period like some other ones in past also death numbers almost always stay at 300 to 350 at most. Which seems quite low considering the numbers of infections they've had for some weeks now, people in ICU, and Hospital.
And as you say India. Is horrific right now. Whether their reporting of infection and death has been accurate or not throughout who knows. They have had, and still have at the moment one of the lower death per capita figures in the World.
-- Edited by JP on Sunday 25th of April 2021 03:17:16 PM
-- Edited by JP on Sunday 25th of April 2021 03:19:04 PM
-- Edited by JP on Sunday 25th of April 2021 03:20:40 PM