The divisive terms used today by the PM demonising immigrants just to appease a small element of ignorant bigots was repellant. The small boats only make up 5% of immigrants! Without all the highly efficient NHS immigrant doctors and nurses we wouldn't have an NHS. We are in their debt, ffs! It's shameful( and unnecessary) that Starmer has decided to wallow in the gutter with Farage using distasteful language. How are these hard working people meant to 'integrate' if our own PM tries to appease and therefore legitamise people's prejudices ? He doesn't even need to address this tiresome narrative as Labour have halved immigration which made today's speech even more bizarre! Also if the goverment decides to cease overseas care recruitment care home managers have said the profession would collapse. They can't attract domestic care workers as the pay is low. Will Starmer raise taxes to train and pay "homegrown" carers , how will he fund the pay rises needed to entice Brits?
Anonymous said
May 12 9:21 PM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
Red Okktober wrote:
Now that Reform are ahead in the polls, Starmer has decided to act the tough guy on immigration. It's pretty transparent, and we all know why he's doing it.
The thing is, he's only dealing with legal immigration and remains clueless how to stop the illegals coming in.
Farage says that Starmer is making promises that he cannot keep. Nothing new there then, as Labour seem to just 'say anything' at any given time, with no comebacks
Farage also said "On the day of Keir Starmer’s big fightback against Reform UK, 250 young men are already crossing the Channel by 08:00. How many are Iranian terrorists?"
Give the idiot a break, he’s busy still trying to work out “what is a woman”.
He’s waiting for the Supreme Court to explain what an immigrant is.
Anonymous said
May 12 10:42 PM, 2025
Maddog I don't always agree with you but you are spot on. NHS standard doctors and nurses are not paid well. Their strike demands would not have been met if the government did not recognise that. Senior consultants may well do. Immigrant medical staff get paid even less than the aforementioned docs and nurses hence why the NHS rely on them. In the private sector they are paid far more but many evidently cannot pay for private healthcare. Apparently our Labour PM has decided that he will deny more legal immigrants Visa which will destroy the social care sector. I just hope anyone here who has a problem with immigration doesn't God forbid become unable to care for themselves and need the services of care workers . Because the majority of which are immigrants and if this abusive narrative continues there won't be any.
Digger said
May 12 11:17 PM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Maddog wrote:
"The NHS is losing senior doctors to countries including Ireland, Australia and the United Arab Emirates because they can double their salary and enjoy better working conditions."
As a man, and a father, I understand wanting a better life with better working conditions.
You can pretend that life doesn't get better with more money, but you'd be wrong. It's not everything (health for example), but it sure can take some pressure off if you are highly paid.
Of course money matters, we all have to live, no one is disputing that. No one here is pretending anything from what I can see. You cannot seem to grasp that not everyone is led by money and some look for job satisfaction moreso…whether that’s working on the bins or in a top paying hospital. You’ll just have to accept that not everyone shares your opinion.
The NHS isn’t perfect and from what I’ve learned, from an American friend of long standing, neither is the US medical services.
Yes, but if people find satisfaction elsewhere, shouldn't that concern you? Especially when your health is involved?.
I’d question why someone would go into, eg, a caring profession if the goal was simply for financial reasons. Financial reasons being totally different to job satisfaction, as has been said numerous times.
Really? Isn't being paid well part of any job satisfaction?
You seem to not value healthcare workers and insist they do it for love or some shit..
Nurses in the US get paid double what UK nurses earn but then the US health system is totally different to ours.
Syl said
May 12 11:31 PM, 2025
Immigrant Dr's who are paid less are working privately, not for the NHS.
The NHS will employ immigrant Dr's, train them for a 2 year period, in order for them to return to their home countries...they will be on a lower pay scale. That arrangement benefits both.
Doctors recruited from some of the world's poorest countries to work in UK hospitals say they're being exploited - and believe they're so overworked they fear putting patients' health at risk.
"A BBC investigation has found evidence that doctors from Nigeria are being recruited by a British healthcare company and expected to work in private hospitals under conditions not allowed in the National Health Service.
The British Medical Association (BMA) has described the situation as "shocking" and says the sector needs to be brought in line with NHS working practices."
Syl said
May 12 11:54 PM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
Maddog I don't always agree with you but you are spot on. NHS standard doctors and nurses are not paid well. Their strike demands would not have been met if the government did not recognise that. Senior consultants may well do. Immigrant medical staff get paid even less than the aforementioned docs and nurses hence why the NHS rely on them. In the private sector they are paid far more but many evidently cannot pay for private healthcare. Apparently our Labour PM has decided that he will deny more legal immigrants Visa which will destroy the social care sector. I just hope anyone here who has a problem with immigration doesn't God forbid become unable to care for themselves and need the services of care workers . Because the majority of which are immigrants and if this abusive narrative continues there won't be any.
The vast majority of care homes in the UK are privately owned.
The owners make fortunes because care home fees are extortionate.
"The average weekly cost of living in a residential care home is £1,406, while the average nursing home cost is £1,558 per week. Our data shows thar annual residential care home fees cost around £73,000, while nursing care costs around £81,000 per year."
The onus is on care home owners to pay decent wages, paying minimum wages will hardly attract people who are qualified or able to do the job well.
Red Okktober said
May 13 12:17 AM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
The divisive terms used today by the PM demonising immigrants just to appease a small element of ignorant bigots was repellant. The small boats only make up 5% of immigrants! Without all the highly efficient NHS immigrant doctors and nurses we wouldn't have an NHS. We are in their debt, ffs! It's shameful( and unnecessary) that Starmer has decided to wallow in the gutter with Farage using distasteful language. How are these hard working people meant to 'integrate' if our own PM tries to appease and therefore legitamise people's prejudices ? He doesn't even need to address this tiresome narrative as Labour have halved immigration which made today's speech even more bizarre! Also if the goverment decides to cease overseas care recruitment care home managers have said the profession would collapse. They can't attract domestic care workers as the pay is low. Will Starmer raise taxes to train and pay "homegrown" carers , how will he fund the pay rises needed to entice Brits?
Labour have halved immigration? When did that happen?
Most sensible people welcome skilled immigrants into the UK, including doctors and nurses - it's the unskilled ones and those with no intention of ever working that we don't want, which is most of them.
People like you always bring up doctors and nurses when it comes to cutting back on immigration, but never mention that there would be far fewer patients to see if there were fewer immigrants, meaning we wouldn't need as many doctors and nurses anyway.
Maddog said
May 13 1:13 AM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Immigrant Dr's who are paid less are working privately, not for the NHS.
The NHS will employ immigrant Dr's, train them for a 2 year period, in order for them to return to their home countries...they will be on a lower pay scale. That arrangement benefits both.
Doctors recruited from some of the world's poorest countries to work in UK hospitals say they're being exploited - and believe they're so overworked they fear putting patients' health at risk.
"A BBC investigation has found evidence that doctors from Nigeria are being recruited by a British healthcare company and expected to work in private hospitals under conditions not allowed in the National Health Service.
The British Medical Association (BMA) has described the situation as "shocking" and says the sector needs to be brought in line with NHS working practices."
They are paid less at private hospitals than public? I'm not sure that's the case..I don't doubt they are worked to death during their training.
That happens here too. It's a grueling process.
Except we're not recruiting from 3rd world countries..
Anonymous said
May 13 1:26 AM, 2025
Yes Red, controlled immigration levels have plummeted since labour have come to power. I suspect the right wing media you consume doesn't let you in on such info nor will it ever drop the subject of foreign ppl to concentrate on the cost of living crisis , education or climate change for one single day. Those topics don't make their target audience salivate the way foreign people existing do. The official numbers will be revealed next wednesday. They do not include the apparent murderers that risk their life on tiny boats which make up a measly 5% of immigration figures so it will mean nothing to you. However the 'foreigners are taking our jobs' excuse will no longer cut it.
Maddog said
May 13 1:27 AM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
Maddog I don't always agree with you but you are spot on. NHS standard doctors and nurses are not paid well. Their strike demands would not have been met if the government did not recognise that. Senior consultants may well do. Immigrant medical staff get paid even less than the aforementioned docs and nurses hence why the NHS rely on them. In the private sector they are paid far more but many evidently cannot pay for private healthcare. Apparently our Labour PM has decided that he will deny more legal immigrants Visa which will destroy the social care sector. I just hope anyone here who has a problem with immigration doesn't God forbid become unable to care for themselves and need the services of care workers . Because the majority of which are immigrants and if this abusive narrative continues there won't be any.
The figures are pretty clear. Even Canadians are paid much better (I imagine because we can poach them if they aren't).
I can't help but think that impacts performance. That's why employers pay their employees a good wage. It's not altruism, it's how to make more effective employees.
It also seems to impact wait times because a low number of lower paid individuals aren't going to be as effective..
Knee replacements here are done in about 3 weeks after diagnosis..
It could be a year in the UK..
Digger said
May 13 11:54 AM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Maddog I don't always agree with you but you are spot on. NHS standard doctors and nurses are not paid well. Their strike demands would not have been met if the government did not recognise that. Senior consultants may well do. Immigrant medical staff get paid even less than the aforementioned docs and nurses hence why the NHS rely on them. In the private sector they are paid far more but many evidently cannot pay for private healthcare. Apparently our Labour PM has decided that he will deny more legal immigrants Visa which will destroy the social care sector. I just hope anyone here who has a problem with immigration doesn't God forbid become unable to care for themselves and need the services of care workers . Because the majority of which are immigrants and if this abusive narrative continues there won't be any.
The figures are pretty clear. Even Canadians are paid much better (I imagine because we can poach them if they aren't).
I can't help but think that impacts performance. That's why employers pay their employees a good wage. It's not altruism, it's how to make more effective employees.
It also seems to impact wait times because a low number of lower paid individuals aren't going to be as effective..
Knee replacements here are done in about 3 weeks after diagnosis..
It could be a year in the UK..
It's 18 weeks not a year. Though perhaps Syl is more qualified regarding dates. I'm sure some people do have to wait a good while but its not over the board for the whole country. I had a hernia repair and it took 4 weeks from diagnosis to operation.
Red Okktober said
May 13 1:09 PM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
Yes Red, controlled immigration levels have plummeted since labour have come to power. I suspect the right wing media you consume doesn't let you in on such info nor will it ever drop the subject of foreign ppl to concentrate on the cost of living crisis , education or climate change for one single day. Those topics don't make their target audience salivate the way foreign people existing do. The official numbers will be revealed next wednesday. They do not include the apparent murderers that risk their life on tiny boats which make up a measly 5% of immigration figures so it will mean nothing to you. However the 'foreigners are taking our jobs' excuse will no longer cut it.
If you are the same anon, you originally said that Labour have 'halved immigration' - which covers all immigration, legal, illegal, controlled, uncontrolled, whatever you want to call it - so you are saying that under Starmer all immigration has been halved since last July? Are you sure about that?
You are now saying that 'controlled' immigration has 'plummeted' - which could mean absolutely anything, and is completely different to saying that Labour have halved immigration.
I havent heard anyone say that foreigners are taking our jobs for about 5 years - you seem a bit out of touch. Tbh I wish they would take some of our jobs instead of sitting on their lazy fat arses sponging off the taxpayer.
Syl said
May 13 4:06 PM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Immigrant Dr's who are paid less are working privately, not for the NHS.
The NHS will employ immigrant Dr's, train them for a 2 year period, in order for them to return to their home countries...they will be on a lower pay scale. That arrangement benefits both.
Doctors recruited from some of the world's poorest countries to work in UK hospitals say they're being exploited - and believe they're so overworked they fear putting patients' health at risk.
"A BBC investigation has found evidence that doctors from Nigeria are being recruited by a British healthcare company and expected to work in private hospitals under conditions not allowed in the National Health Service.
The British Medical Association (BMA) has described the situation as "shocking" and says the sector needs to be brought in line with NHS working practices."
They are paid less at private hospitals than public? I'm not sure that's the case..I don't doubt they are worked to death during their training.
That happens here too. It's a grueling process.
Except we're not recruiting from 3rd world countries..
I meant immigrant Dr's are paid less than other doctors when they are both working for private companies.
Maddog said
May 13 4:32 PM, 2025
Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Maddog I don't always agree with you but you are spot on. NHS standard doctors and nurses are not paid well. Their strike demands would not have been met if the government did not recognise that. Senior consultants may well do. Immigrant medical staff get paid even less than the aforementioned docs and nurses hence why the NHS rely on them. In the private sector they are paid far more but many evidently cannot pay for private healthcare. Apparently our Labour PM has decided that he will deny more legal immigrants Visa which will destroy the social care sector. I just hope anyone here who has a problem with immigration doesn't God forbid become unable to care for themselves and need the services of care workers . Because the majority of which are immigrants and if this abusive narrative continues there won't be any.
The figures are pretty clear. Even Canadians are paid much better (I imagine because we can poach them if they aren't).
I can't help but think that impacts performance. That's why employers pay their employees a good wage. It's not altruism, it's how to make more effective employees.
It also seems to impact wait times because a low number of lower paid individuals aren't going to be as effective..
Knee replacements here are done in about 3 weeks after diagnosis..
It could be a year in the UK..
It's 18 weeks not a year. Though perhaps Syl is more qualified regarding dates. I'm sure some people do have to wait a good while but its not over the board for the whole country. I had a hernia repair and it took 4 weeks from diagnosis to operation.
18 weeks is the goal.
My buddy had a hernia a few weeks ago. Fixed him up a couple of days later. He's going to be traipsing around Italy 4 weeks after his diagnosis..
The point is, if you need a knee replacement there has to be pain or lack of mobility. People shouldn't have to spend months (or longer) of their life in that condition.
Maddog said
May 13 4:44 PM, 2025
According to a report from the Royal College of Surgeons in England, the number of patients on the number of patients on the NHS waiting list reached 7.7 million in 2023.1 Of these, over 18,500 had been waiting for treatment for more than two years. Patients facing the longest length of time waiting are for Trauma and Orthopaedic treatment, such as hip and knee replacements.2
In terms of knee replacement patients, the number of people that have been waiting more than two years for hip or knee replacement surgery is nearly 4,000. According to our recent study, 40% of knee replacement patients waited over a year before even getting on the NHS list, so these figures don’t take into account the pre-diagnosis wait time for surgery.
In contrast, the average waiting time for private knee replacement surgery is between four and six weeks.
I know the NHS is basically revered like a religious institution, but this is unacceptable.
I think I'd have to have BUPA if I lived there..
Barksdale said
May 13 5:24 PM, 2025
Red Okktober wrote:
LMAO at Starmer - in his attempt to impersonate Farage, he has come out with 'an island of strangers' comment and is coming under flak from his own MPs - they say he is 'mimicking the far right with shameful and dangerous language'
One has even compared it to Enoch Powell's famous Rivers of Blood speech!
'Shame on you Kier Starmer' seeems to be general view among Labour MPs. There is already a growing rebellion over winter fuel and PiP - I cannot see this idiot lasting his full term now that his own MPs are turning on him in their droves.
It was always likely that Labour would start nicking Reform's rhetoric on immigration but I'm surprised how early on in their term they have done it. I guess the recent May elections spooked Starmer and he decided to set out his stall early.
It's nothing like Powell's Rivers of Blood speech though. Powell was stirring up racial tensions to stop the passage of the Race Relations Act 1968 which he didn't like as it outlawed discrimination in a number of areas against ethnic minority people. I don't think Starmer is racist along those lines.
Barksdale said
May 13 5:32 PM, 2025
Red Okktober wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Yes Red, controlled immigration levels have plummeted since labour have come to power. I suspect the right wing media you consume doesn't let you in on such info nor will it ever drop the subject of foreign ppl to concentrate on the cost of living crisis , education or climate change for one single day. Those topics don't make their target audience salivate the way foreign people existing do. The official numbers will be revealed next wednesday. They do not include the apparent murderers that risk their life on tiny boats which make up a measly 5% of immigration figures so it will mean nothing to you. However the 'foreigners are taking our jobs' excuse will no longer cut it.
If you are the same anon, you originally said that Labour have 'halved immigration' - which covers all immigration, legal, illegal, controlled, uncontrolled, whatever you want to call it - so you are saying that under Starmer all immigration has been halved since last July? Are you sure about that?
You are now saying that 'controlled' immigration has 'plummeted' - which could mean absolutely anything, and is completely different to saying that Labour have halved immigration.
I havent heard anyone say that foreigners are taking our jobs for about 5 years - you seem a bit out of touch. Tbh I wish they would take some of our jobs instead of sitting on their lazy fat arses sponging off the taxpayer.
It hasn't plummeted but it has gone down by about 20% in 2024 to around 700k from a record high in 2023 of about 900k. The data for 2025 isn't available yet but will be soon as Guest said.
It's still an enormous amount of people and a far cry from Cameron's pledge to reduce it to the tens of thousands. Labour are attempting to tackle the issue but as I said before the incentives aren't really there economically for them to give it the attention a lot of people would like.
Red Okktober said
May 13 6:34 PM, 2025
Barksdale wrote:
It hasn't plummeted but it has gone down by about 20% in 2024 to around 700k from a record high in 2023 of about 900k. The data for 2025 isn't available yet but will be soon as Guest said.
It's still an enormous amount of people and a far cry from Cameron's pledge to reduce it to the tens of thousands. Labour are attempting to tackle the issue but as I said before the incentives aren't really there economically for them to give it the attention a lot of people would like.
Net migration is calculated from June to June, so the 20% drop in 2024 from the previous year was a month before Starmer got elected. The deluded anon who thinks Labour have halved immigration doesn't even know the 2025 figures yet at they arent out.
Anyway, it's a coin toss if they have gone up or down this past year, but either way, it has nothing to do with Labour policies as they only announced proposed changes yesterday.
What we do know though is that a record number of illegals have crossed The Channel under Starmer's watch, which is quite telling considering that 'smashing the gangs' was a key part of their manifesto.
Syl said
May 13 7:27 PM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Maddog I don't always agree with you but you are spot on. NHS standard doctors and nurses are not paid well. Their strike demands would not have been met if the government did not recognise that. Senior consultants may well do. Immigrant medical staff get paid even less than the aforementioned docs and nurses hence why the NHS rely on them. In the private sector they are paid far more but many evidently cannot pay for private healthcare. Apparently our Labour PM has decided that he will deny more legal immigrants Visa which will destroy the social care sector. I just hope anyone here who has a problem with immigration doesn't God forbid become unable to care for themselves and need the services of care workers . Because the majority of which are immigrants and if this abusive narrative continues there won't be any.
The figures are pretty clear. Even Canadians are paid much better (I imagine because we can poach them if they aren't).
I can't help but think that impacts performance. That's why employers pay their employees a good wage. It's not altruism, it's how to make more effective employees.
It also seems to impact wait times because a low number of lower paid individuals aren't going to be as effective..
Knee replacements here are done in about 3 weeks after diagnosis..
It could be a year in the UK..
It's 18 weeks not a year. Though perhaps Syl is more qualified regarding dates. I'm sure some people do have to wait a good while but its not over the board for the whole country. I had a hernia repair and it took 4 weeks from diagnosis to operation.
18 weeks is the goal.
My buddy had a hernia a few weeks ago. Fixed him up a couple of days later. He's going to be traipsing around Italy 4 weeks after his diagnosis..
The point is, if you need a knee replacement there has to be pain or lack of mobility. People shouldn't have to spend months (or longer) of their life in that condition.
I think the area in which you live has a baring on how long you wait for joint replacements.
I didn't wait long for my first knee replacement, nor for a hip replacement, 3 years ago.
The problems with the other knee that I have waited three years for, is that the hip replacement still aches, so they have done numerous tests, like bone density scans, MRI scans, appointments to see the consultant etc,,,that's why I have had to wait so long.
But Maddog, we could easily have our ops done just as quickly as you can, IF we go private...we have the choice.
Magica said
May 13 8:55 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Maddog I don't always agree with you but you are spot on. NHS standard doctors and nurses are not paid well. Their strike demands would not have been met if the government did not recognise that. Senior consultants may well do. Immigrant medical staff get paid even less than the aforementioned docs and nurses hence why the NHS rely on them. In the private sector they are paid far more but many evidently cannot pay for private healthcare. Apparently our Labour PM has decided that he will deny more legal immigrants Visa which will destroy the social care sector. I just hope anyone here who has a problem with immigration doesn't God forbid become unable to care for themselves and need the services of care workers . Because the majority of which are immigrants and if this abusive narrative continues there won't be any.
The figures are pretty clear. Even Canadians are paid much better (I imagine because we can poach them if they aren't).
I can't help but think that impacts performance. That's why employers pay their employees a good wage. It's not altruism, it's how to make more effective employees.
It also seems to impact wait times because a low number of lower paid individuals aren't going to be as effective..
Knee replacements here are done in about 3 weeks after diagnosis..
It could be a year in the UK..
It's 18 weeks not a year. Though perhaps Syl is more qualified regarding dates. I'm sure some people do have to wait a good while but its not over the board for the whole country. I had a hernia repair and it took 4 weeks from diagnosis to operation.
18 weeks is the goal.
My buddy had a hernia a few weeks ago. Fixed him up a couple of days later. He's going to be traipsing around Italy 4 weeks after his diagnosis..
The point is, if you need a knee replacement there has to be pain or lack of mobility. People shouldn't have to spend months (or longer) of their life in that condition.
I think the area in which you live has a baring on how long you wait for joint replacements.
I didn't wait long for my first knee replacement, nor for a hip replacement, 3 years ago.
The problems with the other knee that I have waited three years for, is that the hip replacement still aches, so they have done numerous tests, like bone density scans, MRI scans, appointments to see the consultant etc,,,that's why I have had to wait so long.
But Maddog, we could easily have our ops done just as quickly as you can, IF we go private...we have the choice.
You could Syl, but then we worked and paid into the NHS all our working lives. You are entitled to it. Hope it's soon.
He’s waiting for the Supreme Court to explain what an immigrant is.
Nurses in the US get paid double what UK nurses earn but then the US health system is totally different to ours.
Immigrant Dr's who are paid less are working privately, not for the NHS.
The NHS will employ immigrant Dr's, train them for a 2 year period, in order for them to return to their home countries...they will be on a lower pay scale.
That arrangement benefits both.
Doctors recruited from some of the world's poorest countries to work in UK hospitals say they're being exploited - and believe they're so overworked they fear putting patients' health at risk.
"A BBC investigation has found evidence that doctors from Nigeria are being recruited by a British healthcare company and expected to work in private hospitals under conditions not allowed in the National Health Service.
The British Medical Association (BMA) has described the situation as "shocking" and says the sector needs to be brought in line with NHS working practices."
The vast majority of care homes in the UK are privately owned.
The owners make fortunes because care home fees are extortionate.
"The average weekly cost of living in a residential care home is £1,406, while the average nursing home cost is £1,558 per week. Our data shows thar annual residential care home fees cost around £73,000, while nursing care costs around £81,000 per year."
The onus is on care home owners to pay decent wages, paying minimum wages will hardly attract people who are qualified or able to do the job well.
Labour have halved immigration? When did that happen?
Most sensible people welcome skilled immigrants into the UK, including doctors and nurses - it's the unskilled ones and those with no intention of ever working that we don't want, which is most of them.
People like you always bring up doctors and nurses when it comes to cutting back on immigration, but never mention that there would be far fewer patients to see if there were fewer immigrants, meaning we wouldn't need as many doctors and nurses anyway.
They are paid less at private hospitals than public? I'm not sure that's the case..I don't doubt they are worked to death during their training.
That happens here too. It's a grueling process.
Except we're not recruiting from 3rd world countries..
The figures are pretty clear. Even Canadians are paid much better (I imagine because we can poach them if they aren't).
I can't help but think that impacts performance. That's why employers pay their employees a good wage. It's not altruism, it's how to make more effective employees.
It also seems to impact wait times because a low number of lower paid individuals aren't going to be as effective..
Knee replacements here are done in about 3 weeks after diagnosis..
It could be a year in the UK..
It's 18 weeks not a year. Though perhaps Syl is more qualified regarding dates. I'm sure some people do have to wait a good while but its not over the board for the whole country. I had a hernia repair and it took 4 weeks from diagnosis to operation.
If you are the same anon, you originally said that Labour have 'halved immigration' - which covers all immigration, legal, illegal, controlled, uncontrolled, whatever you want to call it - so you are saying that under Starmer all immigration has been halved since last July? Are you sure about that?
You are now saying that 'controlled' immigration has 'plummeted' - which could mean absolutely anything, and is completely different to saying that Labour have halved immigration.
I havent heard anyone say that foreigners are taking our jobs for about 5 years - you seem a bit out of touch. Tbh I wish they would take some of our jobs instead of sitting on their lazy fat arses sponging off the taxpayer.
I meant immigrant Dr's are paid less than other doctors when they are both working for private companies.
18 weeks is the goal.
My buddy had a hernia a few weeks ago. Fixed him up a couple of days later. He's going to be traipsing around Italy 4 weeks after his diagnosis..
The point is, if you need a knee replacement there has to be pain or lack of mobility. People shouldn't have to spend months (or longer) of their life in that condition.
In terms of knee replacement patients, the number of people that have been waiting more than two years for hip or knee replacement surgery is nearly 4,000. According to our recent study, 40% of knee replacement patients waited over a year before even getting on the NHS list, so these figures don’t take into account the pre-diagnosis wait time for surgery.
In contrast, the average waiting time for private knee replacement surgery is between four and six weeks.
practiceplusgroup.com/knowledge-hub/waiting-times-for-knee-replacement/
I know the NHS is basically revered like a religious institution, but this is unacceptable.
I think I'd have to have BUPA if I lived there..
It was always likely that Labour would start nicking Reform's rhetoric on immigration but I'm surprised how early on in their term they have done it. I guess the recent May elections spooked Starmer and he decided to set out his stall early.
It's nothing like Powell's Rivers of Blood speech though. Powell was stirring up racial tensions to stop the passage of the Race Relations Act 1968 which he didn't like as it outlawed discrimination in a number of areas against ethnic minority people. I don't think Starmer is racist along those lines.
It hasn't plummeted but it has gone down by about 20% in 2024 to around 700k from a record high in 2023 of about 900k. The data for 2025 isn't available yet but will be soon as Guest said.
It's still an enormous amount of people and a far cry from Cameron's pledge to reduce it to the tens of thousands. Labour are attempting to tackle the issue but as I said before the incentives aren't really there economically for them to give it the attention a lot of people would like.
Net migration is calculated from June to June, so the 20% drop in 2024 from the previous year was a month before Starmer got elected. The deluded anon who thinks Labour have halved immigration doesn't even know the 2025 figures yet at they arent out.
Anyway, it's a coin toss if they have gone up or down this past year, but either way, it has nothing to do with Labour policies as they only announced proposed changes yesterday.
What we do know though is that a record number of illegals have crossed The Channel under Starmer's watch, which is quite telling considering that 'smashing the gangs' was a key part of their manifesto.
I think the area in which you live has a baring on how long you wait for joint replacements.
I didn't wait long for my first knee replacement, nor for a hip replacement, 3 years ago.
The problems with the other knee that I have waited three years for, is that the hip replacement still aches, so they have done numerous tests, like bone density scans, MRI scans, appointments to see the consultant etc,,,that's why I have had to wait so long.
But Maddog, we could easily have our ops done just as quickly as you can, IF we go private...we have the choice.
You could Syl, but then we worked and paid into the NHS all our working lives. You are entitled to it. Hope it's soon.