Starmer has admitted defeat and has done a U-turn on winter fuel.
It makes him look incredibly weak and shows that there is a growing division within the party - as early as this morning Reeves (it was her policy) said on TV that the policy stands, and just a few hours later, it doesn't LoL
Also, so much for that glimmer of light a few weeks ago with the 0.7% growth in GDP - inflation is up to it's highest for 15 months. 'Disappointing' says Reeves - something we've heard her several times already in the last 10 months.
Anonymous said
May 21 5:32 PM, 2025
Red, admitting a policy was not serving the electotate and reversing it is something the previous government who destroyed the economy would never have the balls to do. I'm so glad Starmer has decided to reverse the cuts and now pensioners will not be under the financial strain that they once were. Combine this with the EU trade deal that will allow us to trade in the free market and possibly recover from the terrible deal the Tories made. Starmer is doing rather well of late although recovering from a 20 million debt and cost of living crisis created by the useless rabble in opposition will of course, take time.
PM questions were hilarious, Starmer gave Badernoch a comprehensive reply to her question and she must of gone deaf because she accused him of not answering..she's great comedy value but incompetent and out of her depth.
Polls show the Tories are the most unpopular they have ever been in fourth place behind Lib dems and many say she is the reason why. Long may she remain leader of the Opposition I say !
Red Okktober said
May 21 7:10 PM, 2025
Are you being serious anon?
Starmer made one of the most inept decisions a new PM could ever make when he withdrew WFA. It's got nothing to with 'admitting it' or 'having the balls to reverse it'. He is backtracking simply trying to save his own skin, and not out of consideration for pensioners.
He has only reversed it because Labour have gone from having a huge majority in the GE to nosediving in the popularity ratings. The local election results and Runcorn by-election highlighted what an incredibly stupid thing it was to have done. Everyone can see this, except you apparently.
I don't know why you are banging on about the Tories either, as they are toast. Reform is the new kid on the block, and the reason why Starmer is now acting how he is. He will tie himself up in so many knots with his U-turns and incompetence as he tries to make himself popular with voters again. But they can see him now. A dead man walking if ever there was one.
Anonymous said
May 21 7:44 PM, 2025
Red, this is a genuine question. Can you admit that our economy was damaged beyond dispute by leaving the EU and that beggars cannot be choosers? I don't blame those who were blatantly lied to by chancers like er 'new kid' Farage. I'm just curious why you trust a man who promised 2 billion to the NHS and never delivered. He is a known liar who wants to get rid of the bill of human rights to ensure their inhumane immigration plans prosper. An individual who wants to end basic rights for anybody should not be considered mentally well imo, let alone a potential candidate for PM. However it would be nice to hear your sincere political opinion without bravado.
Red Okktober said
May 21 8:27 PM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
Red, this is a genuine question. Can you admit that our economy was damaged beyond dispute by leaving the EU and that beggars cannot be choosers? I don't blame those who were blatantly lied to by chancers like er 'new kid' Farage. I'm just curious why you trust a man who promised 2 billion to the NHS and never delivered. He is a known liar who wants to get rid of the bill of human rights to ensure their inhumane immigration plans prosper. An individual who wants to end basic rights for anybody should not be considered mentally well imo, let alone a potential candidate for PM. However it would be nice to hear your sincere political opinion without bravado.
What has any of this got to do with Starmer and WFA?
There were pros and cons to Brexit. How could Farage deliver on anything when he was never in government? It was Theresa May and then Boris who eventually delivered Brexit, not Farage.
The bill of human rights does need to be scrapped, or severely revised as a minimum, as too many people who shouldn't be here have hidden behind it, including those represented by Starmer when he was a HR lawyer.
Barksdale said
May 21 8:52 PM, 2025
Labour's change of position on the WFA is purely political in my opinion rather than a genuine change of heart.
A lot of pensioners are already struggling due to the April price hikes so the sight of freezing pensioners come the winter won't go down very well. Also, there are evidently more tax rises / cutting of spending on the way so the won't want to fight on multiple fronts.
Much like the US, we need to signal to the gilt (bond) market that we are a safe investment to keep borrowing. That requires fiscal prudence which means those rises / cuts are very likely. Unlike the US administration our Government, fortunately, isn't delusional. Rachel Reeves gets a lot of stick but to her credit it seems to me she understands one of our central problem and her fiscal rules are a nod to the markets of that knowledge.
It's going to be another year of struggle regrettably.
Anonymous said
May 22 1:11 AM, 2025
It's another year of struggle Barksdale because the Tories left the country 20 mil in the red and Brexit wrecked the economy. Labour can only do so much in a year and as they have to stay faithful to what the public want ( which is seemingly being isolated and poorer ) they can never make us as prosperous as we were when part of the EU. I agree with Ed Davey , Starmer should have tried for more in the deal to help the economy and thrown off the Brexit chains.. Labour are only losing 6% of voters to Reform, its left wing parties like the Lib Dems and the Greens he is losing his core voters to. The majority who voted in the last election don't want Farage impersonations or Farage himself, just for labour to be true to their roots. They have had enough of division and crude insulting rhetoric about immigration. Sadly Starmer keeps trying to appeal to reform voters when they would never consider voting for Labour anyway.
Anonymous said
May 22 1:21 AM, 2025
Red, I asked your opinion just to try and understand the reasoning for your far right politics. I'm none the wiser but I have to disagree and say human rights are not something to be abolished or tampered with. That's a very dangerous road to pursue. Thankfully, I doubt the likes of Nigel Farage will be permitted to alter our basic human rights.
Red Okktober said
May 22 12:01 PM, 2025
Some genuine good news at last - net migration has halved!
Although I'm not sure how they are caluclating it as it's usually done from June to June, but they are giving the latest figures as a calender year from Dec to Dec.
Anyway, it seems to have gone down quite steeply however they are working it out.
I'm wondering if Starmer will try and take credit for it despite only coming into office in the second half of the year, and only announcing changes to immigration policy last week.
Edit - I see that the chinless wonder Yvette Cooper is claiming the drop is 'since the election' when in fact it also covers the period before Labour were in power
Nice try. You were informed last week that immigration had gone down by half and the figures would be offically made public soon and refused to believe it. It is due to Labour who has let in less controlled immigrants and processing claims in a timely fashion. BBC news has reported the net migration decreased after Labour were elected although it hardly needs stating as the Tories would be claiming half of this decrease if that were true. But they are not because it has nothing to do with them. No need for Farage it seems, Labour are perfectly capable of reducing immigration significantly as the public wants.
Red Okktober said
May 22 4:41 PM, 2025
If you are the same deluded anon who last week claimed that Starmer had halved all immigration, could you explain how he has done it when he only made public last week his immigration white paper, that has yet to be implemented?
Perhaps you should read that BBC article more carefully:
"It’s clear from the figures that the big falls in net migration are down to both restrictions on visas introduced by the outgoing Conservative administration and a delayed effect of the pandemic."
" There have been big falls in the number of people coming to work and study - and there’s been a fall in the number of students bringing family members with them. That was a key objective of changes that tightened visas, introduced by both Suella Braverman and James Cleverly, the last Tory home secretaries"
Anonymous said
May 22 6:02 PM, 2025
Yes I am that Anon, wondering if immigration has dropped so drastically and those figures have been available for some time why did most media outlets fail to inform their viewers of this good news? I knew about it and you laughed it off. The reason you didn't know net migration has fallen by the largest % in history is because that would mean the right wing media couldn't blame immigrants for everything anymore. And that's no fun is it, admitting the country doesn't have a terrible immigration problem after pretending it has daily for months. It hasn't even been a leading story today,it's almost Like immigrants were being used as a convienient scapegoat for all ill's. As for Starmer's white paper I don't welcome it. The social care sector will be on its knees because we need that immigrant workforce and since Starmer knew immigration was falling rapidly I see it as totally unnecessary and potentially very damaging. At least the immigration fixation should stop. Farage will be horrified at these figures.
Red Okktober said
May 22 6:59 PM, 2025
You don't seem very reliable in your claim that you knew about net migration figures before they were published, and that you are giving Starmer all the credit for it. Did you not read that the drop is down to the outgoing Tory governement? You are as bad as Yvette Cooper who says the drop happened 'after the election' as if Labour should somehow take the credit - like you she doesn't seem to understand what caused the figures to drop so much, and she's the Home Secretary!
Are you an illegal yourself anon? Only you seem very defensive and uninformed as to the massive problem we have with immigration, and seem to think that todays figures mean that the problem no longer exists.
" Net migration halves after Tory visa crackdown. It follows restrictions introduced by the Conservatives in early 2024 barring foreign workers and students from bringing dependents"
If you claim the Tories are responsible for some of the reduction in immigration I can take your word for it. The point is immigration is falling and since that's what you want why can't you stop complaining. Other people want to be able to feed their children from sources other than a foodbank or get a job that pays the bills. Your political concern is apparently only immigration and it is being dealt with far quicker than anticipated. Why are you not satisfied?
Syl said
May 23 7:12 PM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
If you claim the Tories are responsible for some of the reduction in immigration I can take your word for it. The point is immigration is falling and since that's what you want why can't you stop complaining. Other people want to be able to feed their children from sources other than a foodbank or get a job that pays the bills. Your political concern is apparently only immigration and it is being dealt with far quicker than anticipated. Why are you not satisfied?
Last year almost 37,000 people arrived here ILLEGALLY by small boats, people who we have no way of knowing if their intentions are good or evil.
Does that not bother you at all?
Official figures published 27th Feb 2025.
"The government has announced a series of measures to tackle people smuggling, including a new criminal offence of endangering the lives of others at sea.
"Almost 37,000 people crossed the English Channel in small boats in 2024.
The number of people claiming asylum in the UK during the year to December 2024 was the highest since records began, in 1979."
If you claim the Tories are responsible for some of the reduction in immigration I can take your word for it. The point is immigration is falling and since that's what you want why can't you stop complaining. Other people want to be able to feed their children from sources other than a foodbank or get a job that pays the bills. Your political concern is apparently only immigration and it is being dealt with far quicker than anticipated. Why are you not satisfied?
Last year almost 37,000 people arrived here ILLEGALLY by small boats, people who we have no way of knowing if their intentions are good or evil.
Does that not bother you at all?
Official figures published 27th Feb 2025.
"The government has announced a series of measures to tackle people smuggling, including a new criminal offence of endangering the lives of others at sea.
"Almost 37,000 people crossed the English Channel in small boats in 2024.
The number of people claiming asylum in the UK during the year to December 2024 was the highest since records began, in 1979."
It doesn't bother me as much as pensioners and children in poverty,no or the cost of living crisis. Especially when the government are working on this issue and the prior number has halved. The people on boats risking their lives are only 5% of the immigrants living here, a tiny amount. Whilst we have this narrative in the media of hating immigrants one third of nurses from overseas now plan to leave here. I know you concur we desperately need the immigrant workforce in the NHS and caring sector. But Starmer is blocking more immigrant qualified staff as outlined in this white paper. I know that you understand this is not necessarily beneficial for us. I can understand your concern but it's not as pressing as other matters imo. I don't agree with people who only care about immigration and support abolishing human rights to resolve it either.
Syl said
May 23 11:00 PM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
It doesn't bother me as much as pensioners and children in poverty,no or the cost of living crisis. Especially when the government are working on this issue and the prior number has halved. The people on boats risking their lives are only 5% of the immigrants living here, a tiny amount. Whilst we have this narrative in the media of hating immigrants one third of nurses from overseas now plan to leave here. I know you concur we desperately need the immigrant workforce in the NHS and caring sector. But Starmer is blocking more immigrant qualified staff as outlined in this white paper. I know that you understand this is not necessarily beneficial for us. I can understand your concern but it's not as pressing as other matters imo. I don't agree with people who only care about immigration and support abolishing human rights to resolve it either.
All the things you mention are important, one does'nt cancel the other out.
And a good % of people coming here illegally are economic migrants, who are being cared for at the expense of pensioners and children who live here.
I really don't think most people hate immigrants, they just feel rightly, that for the good of everyone, immigration has to be controlled....especially illegal immigration.
Anonymous said
May 24 2:10 AM, 2025
Anonymous wrote:
It doesn't bother me as much as pensioners and children in poverty,no or the cost of living crisis. Especially when the government are working on this issue and the prior number has halved. The people on boats risking their lives are only 5% of the immigrants living here, a tiny amount. Whilst we have this narrative in the media of hating immigrants one third of nurses from overseas now plan to leave here. I know you concur we desperately need the immigrant workforce in the NHS and caring sector. But Starmer is blocking more immigrant qualified staff as outlined in this white paper. I know that you understand this is not necessarily beneficial for us. I can understand your concern but it's not as pressing as other matters imo. I don't agree with people who only care about immigration and support abolishing human rights to resolve it either.
Less illegals = more money in the pot for “pensioners and children in poverty”.
Syl said
May 24 1:28 PM, 2025
The government saved 1.3 billion by depriving pensioners of the WFP.
Yet they spend over 4 billion taking in illegal asylum seekers. It costs 8 million a day just to house them.
Add to that the free health care every illegal immigrant is entitled to, which impacts greatly on the vulnerable in this country, to pretend that immigration isn't an important issue, you have to look at the bigger picture.
They also get free what people who are here legally have to pay for, prescriptions, glasses, dental care ...this is all money that could be used for the vulnerable in this country.
Starmer has admitted defeat and has done a U-turn on winter fuel.
It makes him look incredibly weak and shows that there is a growing division within the party - as early as this morning Reeves (it was her policy) said on TV that the policy stands, and just a few hours later, it doesn't LoL
Also, so much for that glimmer of light a few weeks ago with the 0.7% growth in GDP - inflation is up to it's highest for 15 months. 'Disappointing' says Reeves - something we've heard her several times already in the last 10 months.
Red, admitting a policy was not serving the electotate and reversing it is something the previous government who destroyed the economy would never have the balls to do. I'm so glad Starmer has decided to reverse the cuts and now pensioners will not be under the financial strain that they once were. Combine this with the EU trade deal that will allow us to trade in the free market and possibly recover from the terrible deal the Tories made. Starmer is doing rather well of late although recovering from a 20 million debt and cost of living crisis created by the useless rabble in opposition will of course, take time.
PM questions were hilarious, Starmer gave Badernoch a comprehensive reply to her question and she must of gone deaf because she accused him of not answering..she's great comedy value but incompetent and out of her depth.
Polls show the Tories are the most unpopular they have ever been in fourth place behind Lib dems and many say she is the reason why. Long may she remain leader of the Opposition I say !
Starmer made one of the most inept decisions a new PM could ever make when he withdrew WFA. It's got nothing to with 'admitting it' or 'having the balls to reverse it'. He is backtracking simply trying to save his own skin, and not out of consideration for pensioners.
He has only reversed it because Labour have gone from having a huge majority in the GE to nosediving in the popularity ratings. The local election results and Runcorn by-election highlighted what an incredibly stupid thing it was to have done. Everyone can see this, except you apparently.
I don't know why you are banging on about the Tories either, as they are toast. Reform is the new kid on the block, and the reason why Starmer is now acting how he is. He will tie himself up in so many knots with his U-turns and incompetence as he tries to make himself popular with voters again. But they can see him now. A dead man walking if ever there was one.
What has any of this got to do with Starmer and WFA?
There were pros and cons to Brexit. How could Farage deliver on anything when he was never in government? It was Theresa May and then Boris who eventually delivered Brexit, not Farage.
The bill of human rights does need to be scrapped, or severely revised as a minimum, as too many people who shouldn't be here have hidden behind it, including those represented by Starmer when he was a HR lawyer.
Labour's change of position on the WFA is purely political in my opinion rather than a genuine change of heart.
A lot of pensioners are already struggling due to the April price hikes so the sight of freezing pensioners come the winter won't go down very well. Also, there are evidently more tax rises / cutting of spending on the way so the won't want to fight on multiple fronts.
Much like the US, we need to signal to the gilt (bond) market that we are a safe investment to keep borrowing. That requires fiscal prudence which means those rises / cuts are very likely. Unlike the US administration our Government, fortunately, isn't delusional. Rachel Reeves gets a lot of stick but to her credit it seems to me she understands one of our central problem and her fiscal rules are a nod to the markets of that knowledge.
It's going to be another year of struggle regrettably.
Although I'm not sure how they are caluclating it as it's usually done from June to June, but they are giving the latest figures as a calender year from Dec to Dec.
Anyway, it seems to have gone down quite steeply however they are working it out.
I'm wondering if Starmer will try and take credit for it despite only coming into office in the second half of the year, and only announcing changes to immigration policy last week.
Edit - I see that the chinless wonder Yvette Cooper is claiming the drop is 'since the election' when in fact it also covers the period before Labour were in power
www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cr4zzvq2p33t
Perhaps you should read that BBC article more carefully:
"It’s clear from the figures that the big falls in net migration are down to both restrictions on visas introduced by the outgoing Conservative administration and a delayed effect of the pandemic."
" There have been big falls in the number of people coming to work and study - and there’s been a fall in the number of students bringing family members with them. That was a key objective of changes that tightened visas, introduced by both Suella Braverman and James Cleverly, the last Tory home secretaries"
Are you an illegal yourself anon? Only you seem very defensive and uninformed as to the massive problem we have with immigration, and seem to think that todays figures mean that the problem no longer exists.
" Net migration halves after Tory visa crackdown. It follows restrictions introduced by the Conservatives in early 2024 barring foreign workers and students from bringing dependents"
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/22/net-migration-halves-after-tory-visa-crackdown/
Last year almost 37,000 people arrived here ILLEGALLY by small boats, people who we have no way of knowing if their intentions are good or evil.
Does that not bother you at all?
Official figures published 27th Feb 2025.
"The government has announced a series of measures to tackle people smuggling, including a new criminal offence of endangering the lives of others at sea.
"Almost 37,000 people crossed the English Channel in small boats in 2024.
The number of people claiming asylum in the UK during the year to December 2024 was the highest since records began, in 1979."
How many people cross the Channel in small boats and how many claim asylum? - BBC News
Where they all going, oh yeah, hotels paid by us!
All the things you mention are important, one does'nt cancel the other out.
And a good % of people coming here illegally are economic migrants, who are being cared for at the expense of pensioners and children who live here.
I really don't think most people hate immigrants, they just feel rightly, that for the good of everyone, immigration has to be controlled....especially illegal immigration.
Less illegals = more money in the pot for “pensioners and children in poverty”.
Yet they spend over 4 billion taking in illegal asylum seekers. It costs 8 million a day just to house them.
Add to that the free health care every illegal immigrant is entitled to, which impacts greatly on the vulnerable in this country, to pretend that immigration isn't an important issue, you have to look at the bigger picture.
They also get free what people who are here legally have to pay for, prescriptions, glasses, dental care ...this is all money that could be used for the vulnerable in this country.