Nearly every white person was what we in the 21st century deem racist back then, particularly in America.
Lincoln the politician did not recognize black people as his social or political equals and, during his years as a lawyer and office seeker living in Illinois, his opinion on this did not change. Lincoln was opposed to the institution of slavery during his entire lifetime but, like most white Americans, he was not an abolitionist. In ante-bellum America, abolitionists were a marginal, radical group, and most white Americans did not participate in or endorse abolitionist activities.
He might have shaken your hand in the White House, but you were not and never would be his social equal.
What's not mentioned in that article is that in August of 1862, Lincoln invited five prominent black men to the White House, the first black delegation invited on such terms. The topic was simple, that white and blacks cannot coexist and that separation is the most expedient means to peace. Lincoln encouraged these five men to rally support for an exodus. In other words, they would be segregated into reservations like the Native Americans. Nice, huh?
By 1863, realizing Liberia, Haiti, and the Chiriqui lands were not reasonable for resettlement (Liberia was considered too great a distance to relocate a large number of freed slaves), Lincoln mentioned moving the “whole colored race of the slave states into Texas.”
Four days before his death, speaking to Gen. Benjamin Butler, Lincoln still pressed on with deportation as the only peaceable solution to America’s race problem. “I can hardly believe that the South and North can live in peace, unless we can get rid of the negroes … I believe that it would be better to export them all to some fertile country…”
John Doe said
Feb 12 9:18 PM, 2021
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
A great article on Abraham Lincoln which puts paid to the preposterous (and increasing popular) lie that he was a 'racist'!
Any US school that removes his name to virtue signal and or to placate the more extreme elements of BLM should hang their heads in shame.
Nearly every white person was what we in the 21st century deem racist back then, particularly in America.
Lincoln the politician did not recognize black people as his social or political equals and, during his years as a lawyer and office seeker living in Illinois, his opinion on this did not change. Lincoln was opposed to the institution of slavery during his entire lifetime but, like most white Americans, he was not an abolitionist. In ante-bellum America, abolitionists were a marginal, radical group, and most white Americans did not participate in or endorse abolitionist activities.
He might have shaken your hand in the White House, but you were not and never would be his social equal.
What's not mentioned in that article is that in August of 1862, Lincoln invited five prominent black men to the White House, the first black delegation invited on such terms. The topic was simple, that white and blacks cannot coexist and that separation is the most expedient means to peace. Lincoln encouraged these five men to rally support for an exodus. In other words, they would be segregated into reservations like the Native Americans. Nice, huh?
By 1863, realizing Liberia, Haiti, and the Chiriqui lands were not reasonable for resettlement (Liberia was considered too great a distance to relocate a large number of freed slaves), Lincoln mentioned moving the “whole colored race of the slave states into Texas.”
Four days before his death, speaking to Gen. Benjamin Butler, Lincoln still pressed on with deportation as the only peaceable solution to America’s race problem. “I can hardly believe that the South and North can live in peace, unless we can get rid of the negroes … I believe that it would be better to export them all to some fertile country…”
I wondered what you would think about that article Digs, I know you have researched this area very deeply - I suppose all it proves is that all great historical figures have their faults.
Although as I always say you cannot judge important figures of the past by the standards of today.
Especially the extreme 'woke' version of the world where every Caucasian (especially if they are English) are the cause of all the evil in the history of the planet.
Magica said
Feb 12 9:55 PM, 2021
John Doe wrote:
A great article on Abraham Lincoln which puts paid to the preposterous (and increasing popular) lie that he was a 'racist'!
Any US school that removes his name to virtue signal and or to placate the more extreme elements of BLM should hang their heads in shame.
That's very good JD. The civil war was over Lincoln wanting to free black slaves who were in the southern states.
I wish native Indians were free to roam their own lands.
The North, like the South, was no ideological monolith. There were men who fought for the Union who believed in the institution of slavery, who believed blacks to be inherently inferior to whites. Likewise, there were men who fought for the Confederacy who never owned slaves (the vast majority, in fact), who didn’t wish to, and who believed in the inherent equality of all men. Something like 2 percent of southerners actually owned slaves. But slavery made the rich landowners very rich. Southern money was built on agriculture which is ultimately why the South lost. The North had industry.
What many choose to forget, or don't know, is that life for free African Americans in the postbellum North was subject to just as many miseries and injustices as in the South.
Many ended up in encampments called contraband camps that were often near union army bases. Conditions were appalling. Some contraband camps were actually former slave pens, meaning newly freed people ended up being kept virtual prisoners back in the same cells that had previously held them. Disease and hunger killed vast numbers of freed slaves. Often the only way to leave the camp was to agree to go back to work on the very same plantations the slaves had just escaped.
Treatment by union soldiers could also be brutal. Don't kid yourself that emancipation ended the suffering. It didn't. And the reason it didn't was because racism, hate, fear, ignorance at that time was rife with just about everyone, North or South.
Slavery had to end in America. But at a terrible cost. Do some research on the Convict Lease System. America should hang its head in shame.
John Doe said
Feb 13 7:16 PM, 2021
Digger wrote:
Magica wrote:
John Doe wrote:
A great article on Abraham Lincoln which puts paid to the preposterous (and increasing popular) lie that he was a 'racist'!
Any US school that removes his name to virtue signal and or to placate the more extreme elements of BLM should hang their heads in shame.
That's very good JD. The civil war was over Lincoln wanting to free black slaves who were in the southern states.
I wish native Indians were free to roam their own lands.
The North, like the South, was no ideological monolith. There were men who fought for the Union who believed in the institution of slavery, who believed blacks to be inherently inferior to whites. Likewise, there were men who fought for the Confederacy who never owned slaves (the vast majority, in fact), who didn’t wish to, and who believed in the inherent equality of all men. Something like 2 percent of southerners actually owned slaves. But slavery made the rich landowners very rich. Southern money was built on agriculture which is ultimately why the South lost. The North had industry.
What many choose to forget, or don't know, is that life for free African Americans in the postbellum North was subject to just as many miseries and injustices as in the South.
Many ended up in encampments called contraband camps that were often near union army bases. Conditions were appalling. Some contraband camps were actually former slave pens, meaning newly freed people ended up being kept virtual prisoners back in the same cells that had previously held them. Disease and hunger killed vast numbers of freed slaves. Often the only way to leave the camp was to agree to go back to work on the very same plantations the slaves had just escaped.
Treatment by union soldiers could also be brutal. Don't kid yourself that emancipation ended the suffering. It didn't. And the reason it didn't was because racism, hate, fear, ignorance at that time was rife with just about everyone, North or South.
Slavery had to end in America. But at a terrible cost. Do some research on the Convict Lease System. America should hang its head in shame.
This is why the BLM movement here is so over the top, we have nothing like America's brutal racist past/present in this regard and are just about the most inclusive country in the world.
I am waiting for some twat to demand any plaques or statutes of Wilberforce be removed because someone, somewhere will accuse him of being a 'racist'.
-- Edited by John Doe on Saturday 13th of February 2021 07:17:22 PM
Digger said
Feb 14 12:14 AM, 2021
John Doe wrote:
Digger wrote:
Magica wrote:
John Doe wrote:
A great article on Abraham Lincoln which puts paid to the preposterous (and increasing popular) lie that he was a 'racist'!
Any US school that removes his name to virtue signal and or to placate the more extreme elements of BLM should hang their heads in shame.
That's very good JD. The civil war was over Lincoln wanting to free black slaves who were in the southern states.
I wish native Indians were free to roam their own lands.
The North, like the South, was no ideological monolith. There were men who fought for the Union who believed in the institution of slavery, who believed blacks to be inherently inferior to whites. Likewise, there were men who fought for the Confederacy who never owned slaves (the vast majority, in fact), who didn’t wish to, and who believed in the inherent equality of all men. Something like 2 percent of southerners actually owned slaves. But slavery made the rich landowners very rich. Southern money was built on agriculture which is ultimately why the South lost. The North had industry.
What many choose to forget, or don't know, is that life for free African Americans in the postbellum North was subject to just as many miseries and injustices as in the South.
Many ended up in encampments called contraband camps that were often near union army bases. Conditions were appalling. Some contraband camps were actually former slave pens, meaning newly freed people ended up being kept virtual prisoners back in the same cells that had previously held them. Disease and hunger killed vast numbers of freed slaves. Often the only way to leave the camp was to agree to go back to work on the very same plantations the slaves had just escaped.
Treatment by union soldiers could also be brutal. Don't kid yourself that emancipation ended the suffering. It didn't. And the reason it didn't was because racism, hate, fear, ignorance at that time was rife with just about everyone, North or South.
Slavery had to end in America. But at a terrible cost. Do some research on the Convict Lease System. America should hang its head in shame.
This is why the BLM movement here is so over the top, we have nothing like America's brutal racist past/present in this regard and are just about the most inclusive country in the world.
I am waiting for some twat to demand any plaques or statutes of Wilberforce be removed because someone, somewhere will accuse him of being a 'racist'.
-- Edited by John Doe on Saturday 13th of February 2021 07:17:22 PM
The Americans definitely 'trump' us for being historically racist twats
John Doe said
Feb 14 12:37 AM, 2021
Digger wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Digger wrote:
Magica wrote:
John Doe wrote:
A great article on Abraham Lincoln which puts paid to the preposterous (and increasing popular) lie that he was a 'racist'!
Any US school that removes his name to virtue signal and or to placate the more extreme elements of BLM should hang their heads in shame.
That's very good JD. The civil war was over Lincoln wanting to free black slaves who were in the southern states.
I wish native Indians were free to roam their own lands.
The North, like the South, was no ideological monolith. There were men who fought for the Union who believed in the institution of slavery, who believed blacks to be inherently inferior to whites. Likewise, there were men who fought for the Confederacy who never owned slaves (the vast majority, in fact), who didn’t wish to, and who believed in the inherent equality of all men. Something like 2 percent of southerners actually owned slaves. But slavery made the rich landowners very rich. Southern money was built on agriculture which is ultimately why the South lost. The North had industry.
What many choose to forget, or don't know, is that life for free African Americans in the postbellum North was subject to just as many miseries and injustices as in the South.
Many ended up in encampments called contraband camps that were often near union army bases. Conditions were appalling. Some contraband camps were actually former slave pens, meaning newly freed people ended up being kept virtual prisoners back in the same cells that had previously held them. Disease and hunger killed vast numbers of freed slaves. Often the only way to leave the camp was to agree to go back to work on the very same plantations the slaves had just escaped.
Treatment by union soldiers could also be brutal. Don't kid yourself that emancipation ended the suffering. It didn't. And the reason it didn't was because racism, hate, fear, ignorance at that time was rife with just about everyone, North or South.
Slavery had to end in America. But at a terrible cost. Do some research on the Convict Lease System. America should hang its head in shame.
This is why the BLM movement here is so over the top, we have nothing like America's brutal racist past/present in this regard and are just about the most inclusive country in the world.
I am waiting for some twat to demand any plaques or statutes of Wilberforce be removed because someone, somewhere will accuse him of being a 'racist'.
-- Edited by John Doe on Saturday 13th of February 2021 07:17:22 PM
The Americans definitely 'trump' us for being historically racist twats
That 'genius' Ivanka and his fucking 'trophy' hunting son (who enjoys shooting many types of highly endangered species like elephants for 'fun') are now seriously thinking of running for office and the orange prick's millions of maniac/rabid supporters are just about dumb and deluded enough to elect them.
That whole family are a like cancer on the world.
Digger said
Feb 14 4:42 PM, 2021
A burglar broke into a house one night. He shined his flashlight around, looking for valuables when a voice in the dark said, 'Jesus knows you're here.'
He nearly jumped out of his skin, clicked his flashlight off, and froze. When he heard nothing more, he shook his head and continued.
Just as he pulled the stereo out so he could disconnect the wires, clear as a bell he heard 'Jesus is watching you.'
Startled, he shined his light around frantically, looking for the source of the voice. Finally, in the corner of the room, his flashlight beam came to rest on a parrot.
'Did you say that?' he hissed at the parrot.
'Yes', the parrot confessed, then squawked, 'I'm just trying to warn you that he's watching you.'
The burglar relaxed. 'Warn me, huh? Who in the world are you?'
'Moses,' replied the bird.
'Moses?' the burglar laughed. 'What kind of people would name a bird Moses?'
'The kind of people who would name a Rottweiler Jesus.'
Syl said
Feb 14 5:09 PM, 2021
Jobless Oddball said
Feb 14 7:17 PM, 2021
Digger wrote:
A burglar broke into a house one night. He shined his flashlight around, looking for valuables when a voice in the dark said, 'Jesus knows you're here.' He nearly jumped out of his skin, clicked his flashlight off, and froze. When he heard nothing more, he shook his head and continued. Just as he pulled the stereo out so he could disconnect the wires, clear as a bell he heard 'Jesus is watching you.' Startled, he shined his light around frantically, looking for the source of the voice. Finally, in the corner of the room, his flashlight beam came to rest on a parrot. 'Did you say that?' he hissed at the parrot. 'Yes', the parrot confessed, then squawked, 'I'm just trying to warn you that he's watching you.' The burglar relaxed. 'Warn me, huh? Who in the world are you?' 'Moses,' replied the bird. 'Moses?' the burglar laughed. 'What kind of people would name a bird Moses?' 'The kind of people who would name a Rottweiler Jesus.'
I would never name my Rottweiler Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why wouldn't you. You could be twins
Speaking of back then, has anyone heard from Shell?
Is she ok?
Haha....I don't think we had that much in common, but we did have a laugh on FH and on here in the early days.
Who want's to know?
If you mean underhand and deceptive - she's still the same. She's lucky over there though with Hobbit backing her all the way.
Underhand and deceptive, similar to bad-mouthing other posters anonymously because you don't have the nerve to put a user name to your posts.
The joke is you people don't even see the hypocrisy.
Random thought...why are there so many snivelling little cowards on forums.
Discuss.
You can probably boil it down to two or three serial offenders.
You forgot the word anonymous.
Anonymous snivelling little cowards.
Awaits one to come on here and slag me off in 3, 2, 1...
A great article on Abraham Lincoln which puts paid to the preposterous (and increasing popular) lie that he was a 'racist'!
Any US school that removes his name to virtue signal and or to placate the more extreme elements of BLM should hang their heads in shame.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/black-lives-certainly-mattered-abraham-lincoln-180976963/
Nearly every white person was what we in the 21st century deem racist back then, particularly in America.
Lincoln the politician did not recognize black people as his social or political equals and, during his years as a lawyer and office seeker living in Illinois, his opinion on this did not change. Lincoln was opposed to the institution of slavery during his entire lifetime but, like most white Americans, he was not an abolitionist. In ante-bellum America, abolitionists were a marginal, radical group, and most white Americans did not participate in or endorse abolitionist activities.
He might have shaken your hand in the White House, but you were not and never would be his social equal.
What's not mentioned in that article is that in August of 1862, Lincoln invited five prominent black men to the White House, the first black delegation invited on such terms. The topic was simple, that white and blacks cannot coexist and that separation is the most expedient means to peace. Lincoln encouraged these five men to rally support for an exodus. In other words, they would be segregated into reservations like the Native Americans. Nice, huh?
By 1863, realizing Liberia, Haiti, and the Chiriqui lands were not reasonable for resettlement (Liberia was considered too great a distance to relocate a large number of freed slaves), Lincoln mentioned moving the “whole colored race of the slave states into Texas.”
Four days before his death, speaking to Gen. Benjamin Butler, Lincoln still pressed on with deportation as the only peaceable solution to America’s race problem. “I can hardly believe that the South and North can live in peace, unless we can get rid of the negroes … I believe that it would be better to export them all to some fertile country…”
I wondered what you would think about that article Digs, I know you have researched this area very deeply - I suppose all it proves is that all great historical figures have their faults.
Although as I always say you cannot judge important figures of the past by the standards of today.
Especially the extreme 'woke' version of the world where every Caucasian (especially if they are English) are the cause of all the evil in the history of the planet.
That's very good JD. The civil war was over Lincoln wanting to free black slaves who were in the southern states.
I wish native Indians were free to roam their own lands.
The North, like the South, was no ideological monolith. There were men who fought for the Union who believed in the institution of slavery, who believed blacks to be inherently inferior to whites. Likewise, there were men who fought for the Confederacy who never owned slaves (the vast majority, in fact), who didn’t wish to, and who believed in the inherent equality of all men. Something like 2 percent of southerners actually owned slaves. But slavery made the rich landowners very rich. Southern money was built on agriculture which is ultimately why the South lost. The North had industry.
What many choose to forget, or don't know, is that life for free African Americans in the postbellum North was subject to just as many miseries and injustices as in the South.
Many ended up in encampments called contraband camps that were often near union army bases. Conditions were appalling. Some contraband camps were actually former slave pens, meaning newly freed people ended up being kept virtual prisoners back in the same cells that had previously held them. Disease and hunger killed vast numbers of freed slaves. Often the only way to leave the camp was to agree to go back to work on the very same plantations the slaves had just escaped.
Treatment by union soldiers could also be brutal. Don't kid yourself that emancipation ended the suffering. It didn't. And the reason it didn't was because racism, hate, fear, ignorance at that time was rife with just about everyone, North or South.
Slavery had to end in America. But at a terrible cost. Do some research on the Convict Lease System. America should hang its head in shame.
This is why the BLM movement here is so over the top, we have nothing like America's brutal racist past/present in this regard and are just about the most inclusive country in the world.
I am waiting for some twat to demand any plaques or statutes of Wilberforce be removed because someone, somewhere will accuse him of being a 'racist'.
-- Edited by John Doe on Saturday 13th of February 2021 07:17:22 PM
The Americans definitely 'trump' us for being historically racist twats
That 'genius' Ivanka and his fucking 'trophy' hunting son (who enjoys shooting many types of highly endangered species like elephants for 'fun') are now seriously thinking of running for office and the orange prick's millions of maniac/rabid supporters are just about dumb and deluded enough to elect them.
That whole family are a like cancer on the world.
He nearly jumped out of his skin, clicked his flashlight off, and froze. When he heard nothing more, he shook his head and continued.
Just as he pulled the stereo out so he could disconnect the wires, clear as a bell he heard 'Jesus is watching you.'
Startled, he shined his light around frantically, looking for the source of the voice. Finally, in the corner of the room, his flashlight beam came to rest on a parrot.
'Did you say that?' he hissed at the parrot.
'Yes', the parrot confessed, then squawked, 'I'm just trying to warn you that he's watching you.'
The burglar relaxed. 'Warn me, huh? Who in the world are you?'
'Moses,' replied the bird.
'Moses?' the burglar laughed. 'What kind of people would name a bird Moses?'
'The kind of people who would name a Rottweiler Jesus.'
I would never name my Rottweiler Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!