3 edits 🤦🏻‍♀️ impertinent little typos! 

You certainly don't bore me, not possible x

But as for giving Farage "a try"  the man honestly wants people to think immigrants eat swans,  he wants to take us out of the European Courts of Human Rights. Only 2 other countries not in it, Russia and Belarus. Don't really want to be stuck in a trio with Russia no thankyou.

Won't dwell on that here, the ideas mad. But you're correct about Trump of course he isn't serving the electorate! He doesn't want to, he wants to get rich and ensure who endorse him stay rich . The tariffs are being paid for by the American taxpayer. Do they even know that I'm.not sure they all do.

It's a mess but at least he is isn't trying to.convince Americans to leave the ECHR because they know they need their freedoms and aren't as stupid as us.

Vam wrote:

---

(Diggs asked me on another thread)

‘Genuine question.   Can you list the actual negativities associated with Trump's and Farage's policies.  Not that you don't like them as people but what it is that makes them bad politicians.   

My philosophy is you don't have to like a leader so long as they hold the public interests at heart.   

So far, all I can see of Trump is that he got a grip of what the people of America actually wanted him to do.‘ 

——————————————————————————————————————————————-

@ Diggs - BIB…Absolutely! 

So yes, he got a grip on immigration. Kind of a shitty way to go about it in most instances but, yeah, he got a grip on it.

But how is any of this serving the American public’s interests?…. 👇🏻

In his first term - with at least some ‘guardrails’ and a measure of congressional oversight in place - his policies STILL added a whopping $8Trillion to the national debt. By the time he’s done this time, the current trajectory is predicted to be another $4Trillion piled on.

This time around, there are absolutely no guardrails in place. The only qualification people need to work for POTUS#47, is to be unquestionably loyal. Or a billionaire. Or preferably both. He has at least 13 billionaires ‘serving’ in his cabinet. Credentials, experience and competence be damned!

Do you believe the policies these people are cooking up, have everyday Americans’ best interests at heart?

His tariff policies are proving to be an unmitigated disaster. People are already starting to feel the massive price hikes on imported goods. And it’s only going to get worse. How is persistently lying to Americans that they won’t be paying for the tariffs in any way helpful to them, when they’re already paying exorbitant prices at the grocery store?

His Big Beautiful Bill is total bullshit, compiled with the express intention to award tax cuts to his billionaire buddies, whilst imposing devastating cuts to essential services across the board. Services everyday Americans rely on, like healthcare, disaster aid, and food assistance to the most needy (especially for children and the elderly).

He keeps deploying US troops on the streets of America, purely on a whim. And you can bet he’ll have them back on the streets at next year’s midterm election. How is instilling fear into the electorate about going out to vote, of benefit to anyone?

He treats the 115,000 staff at the Department of Justice as his personal law firm, and the 37,000 staff at the FBI as his personal police force. How does that help keep Americans safe? 

Going back to your BIB again, I’d say trump certainly isn‘t serving and protecting Americans. He’s America’s LARP president.

Sorry, Diggs, but you did ask!  Rather than engulf the thread with this post, I’ll just leave a link that might interest you. 

https://www.markey.senate.gov/news/press-releases/icymi-markey-outlines-100-of-trumps-disastrous-decisions-from-his-first-100-days

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- Edited by Vam on Sunday 28th of September 2025 08:51:05 PM

-- Edited by Vam on Sunday 28th of September 2025 08:56:37 PM

-- Edited by Vam on Sunday 28th of September 2025 08:57:55 PM

---

 Interesting.  Thanks.

Fluffy wrote:

---

You certainly don't bore me, not possible x

But as for giving Farage "a try"  the man honestly wants people to think immigrants eat swans,  he wants to take us out of the European Courts of Human Rights. Only 2 other countries not in it, Russia and Belarus. Don't really want to be stuck in a trio with Russia no thankyou.

Won't dwell on that here, the ideas mad. But you're correct about Trump of course he isn't serving the electorate! He doesn't want to, he wants to get rich and ensure who endorse him stay rich . The tariffs are being paid for by the American taxpayer. Do they even know that I'm.not sure they all do.

It's a mess but at least he is isn't trying to.convince Americans to leave the ECHR because they know they need their freedoms and aren't as stupid as us.

---

 It was reported a few years ago they were eating ducks and swans.I

I think Reform will be great.  Drag us out of Human rights court, which only serves immigrants!  Won't be arrested for waving a English flag.  Starmer has dragged us down into the pit.  We are miserable, he doesn't care about us one bit.

All these lefties wanting illegals make me laugh.  When asked why they don't take them, one woman walked away, another said I don't have the room, must have a sofa surely, another just went er er.lol.

If these illegals kill or rape someone, hope.it's them.  They want them here, so they should put their money where their mouth.is.  Out them in their home!

Magica wrote:

---

Fluffy wrote:

---

You certainly don't bore me, not possible x

But as for giving Farage "a try"  the man honestly wants people to think immigrants eat swans,  he wants to take us out of the European Courts of Human Rights. Only 2 other countries not in it, Russia and Belarus. Don't really want to be stuck in a trio with Russia no thankyou.

Won't dwell on that here, the ideas mad. But you're correct about Trump of course he isn't serving the electorate! He doesn't want to, he wants to get rich and ensure who endorse him stay rich . The tariffs are being paid for by the American taxpayer. Do they even know that I'm.not sure they all do.

It's a mess but at least he is isn't trying to.convince Americans to leave the ECHR because they know they need their freedoms and aren't as stupid as us.

---

 It was reported a few years ago they were eating ducks and swans.I

 

I think Reform will be great.  Drag us out of Human rights court, which only serves immigrants!  Won't be arrested for waving a English flag.  Starmer has dragged us down into the pit.  We are miserable, he doesn't care about us one bit.

 

All these lefties wanting illegals make me laugh.  When asked why they don't take them, one woman walked away, another said I don't have the room, must have a sofa surely, another just went er er.lol.

If these illegals kill or rape someone, hope.it's them.  They want them here, so they should put their money where their mouth.is.  Out them in their home!

 

---

 Yeah, we'll align with the Russians.

They have their house in order. And no the ECHR look after our rights Mags, of course they do. I feel like weeping. Yvette Cooper suggested the ECHR was outdated and could be amended to ensure we remove immigrants AND look after the basic working and pension rights of Brits as it always has done.

That's better than removing all our rights on.a whim, surely you can see that much? Farage is like Trump, he cares about profit. He doesn't care about the ordinary man in.The street and never will. Brexit was meant to reduce immigration, Farage promised you this. He lied.  But the media never being him up on that or the 2 million he promised to give to the NHS that never materialised, because it's a right wing media. Without a fair media we have no democracy.

Britain is a sinking ship. If Brexit get in , many people will leave. The billionaires funding Farage won't. I have savings but sadly not enough to leave the country Anyone evil enough to return women to the Taliban cannot be trusted to run.a Government. The Tories would never even do such a thing, it's unthinkable.

But going by your BIB no wonder you don't care./Wow.

Fluffy wrote:

---

You certainly don't bore me, not possible x

But as for giving Farage "a try"  the man honestly wants people to think immigrants eat swans,  he wants to take us out of the European Courts of Human Rights. Only 2 other countries not in it, Russia and Belarus. Don't really want to be stuck in a trio with Russia no thankyou.

Won't dwell on that here, the ideas mad. But you're correct about Trump of course he isn't serving the electorate! He doesn't want to, he wants to get rich and ensure who endorse him stay rich . The tariffs are being paid for by the American taxpayer. Do they even know that I'm.not sure they all do.

It's a mess but at least he is isn't trying to.convince Americans to leave the ECHR because they know they need their freedoms and aren't as stupid as us.

---

 Russia got booted out of the ECHR.   There was no way they were ever going to conform anyway.  There's something odd about Russians. They're what my mum used to call funny fen folk, they do weird things and there's a whiff of Ed Gein about the ones who live in isolated areas.   I'll never forget the awful story about that Russian couple who got drunk and threw their 2 year old grandson into the wood burning oven.  

But hey, we have Spain and Portugal still slaughtering bulls for the entertainment of the masses.  So much for humanity.    Something we don't do here, thank God.  

Not all member states of the ECHR are bound by all the protocols. States choose whether or not to ratify them. The UK has not ratified Protocol 4.  Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands, Turkey...none of them have ratified all protocols.

In 2008, the  ECHR courts held that by permanently keeping fingerprints and DNA data of a person who was not convicted of a crime, the UK police had violated their right to privacy.  Yet...here we are now being expected to have all our privacy violated with ID cards, our faces and fingerprints taken at airports, while people are getting locked up for having an opinion.

In spite of the ECHR, the people in this country seem to be losing all their rights little by little.  Our freedom is actually being eroded.   Because what the ECHR started out as decades ago is changing.   It was created with good intentions, but the scope of its jurisdiction made its judgements binding. This has led to a diminishment in sovereignty, as foreign judges have used it to overrule and constrain Parliament. The result has been the illegal migrant crisis, the disaster that is our asylum system, and the persecution of British veterans. 

Nobody likes change.  It scares people. But sometimes changes have to be made in order to progress.  The UK is not progressing.  We are devolving into something terrible.  

Who knows that our future holds.  I do feel it will  get worse...much worse, before it gets better.   Because we have  generations of mindsets that need to be re-booted and de-infantilised.

Fluffy wrote:

---

You certainly don't bore me, not possible x

But as for giving Farage "a try"  the man honestly wants people to think immigrants eat swans,  he wants to take us out of the European Courts of Human Rights. Only 2 other countries not in it, Russia and Belarus. Don't really want to be stuck in a trio with Russia no thankyou.

Won't dwell on that here, the ideas mad. But you're correct about Trump of course he isn't serving the electorate! He doesn't want to, he wants to get rich and ensure who endorse him stay rich . The tariffs are being paid for by the American taxpayer. Do they even know that I'm.not sure they all do.

It's a mess but at least he is isn't trying to.convince Americans to leave the ECHR because they know they need their freedoms and aren't as stupid as us.

---

 Of course they are! And those who haven’t figured it out yet, soon will  

The government will very likely shut down tomorrow. No prob, he’s used to that. There were 3 government shutdowns during his first term - including the longest shutdown in US history (35 days). ‘Let them eat cake.’ Right?

There are still another 3 years of this nightmare to go, before he’s done (unless he croaks before that).

That‘s IF he leaves office willingly. He’s already floating the idea of a possible third term, no doubt confident that his embedded stooges at the Supreme Court will find a way to personalise the US Constitution to meet his specific needs.

There can be little doubt that he’s a full-on malignant narcissist, absolutely high as a kite on the fumes of his own power. His only mindset is ‘what’s in it for me?’. And of course, he’s using every lever of government to unleash spiteful retribution on anyone who dares/dared to challenge him.

But what makes him even more dangerous is that he’s also staggeringly stupid! He’s purely driven by impulse and whatever capricious whim happens to be floating around in his addled brain at the time.

As POTUS, he’s an embarrassment on the world stage and about as much use to Americans as a waterproof teabag.

-- Edited by Vam on Monday 29th of September 2025 09:38:18 AM

So on the eve of an imminent shutdown, and while Americans are desperately awaiting emergency flood relief, and the elderly are dreading cuts to their Social Security/disruption to the Meals on Wheels delivery, HOW can blowing $200million on trump’s latest vanity project be a good thing? 👇🏻

https://x.com/cbotheeggman/status/1972404248802660547?s=12

Also, a question for Maddog: I know you kinda like this guy 👇🏻 But gifting him a $20Billion bailout - my question is WHY?!

Digger wrote:

---

Fluffy wrote:

---

You certainly don't bore me, not possible x

But as for giving Farage "a try"  the man honestly wants people to think immigrants eat swans,  he wants to take us out of the European Courts of Human Rights. Only 2 other countries not in it, Russia and Belarus. Don't really want to be stuck in a trio with Russia no thankyou.

Won't dwell on that here, the ideas mad. But you're correct about Trump of course he isn't serving the electorate! He doesn't want to, he wants to get rich and ensure who endorse him stay rich . The tariffs are being paid for by the American taxpayer. Do they even know that I'm.not sure they all do.

It's a mess but at least he is isn't trying to.convince Americans to leave the ECHR because they know they need their freedoms and aren't as stupid as us.

---

 Russia got booted out of the ECHR.   There was no way they were ever going to conform anyway.  There's something odd about Russians. They're what my mum used to call funny fen folk, they do weird things and there's a whiff of Ed Gein about the ones who live in isolated areas.   I'll never forget the awful story about that Russian couple who got drunk and threw their 2 year old grandson into the wood burning oven.  

But hey, we have Spain and Portugal still slaughtering bulls for the entertainment of the masses.  So much for humanity.    Something we don't do here, thank God.  

Not all member states of the ECHR are bound by all the protocols. States choose whether or not to ratify them. The UK has not ratified Protocol 4.  Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands, Turkey...none of them have ratified all protocols.

In 2008, the  ECHR courts held that by permanently keeping fingerprints and DNA data of a person who was not convicted of a crime, the UK police had violated their right to privacy.  Yet...here we are now being expected to have all our privacy violated with ID cards, our faces and fingerprints taken at airports, while people are getting locked up for having an opinion.

In spite of the ECHR, the people in this country seem to be losing all their rights little by little.  Our freedom is actually being eroded.   Because what the ECHR started out as decades ago is changing.   It was created with good intentions, but the scope of its jurisdiction made its judgements binding. This has led to a diminishment in sovereignty, as foreign judges have used it to overrule and constrain Parliament. The result has been the illegal migrant crisis, the disaster that is our asylum system, and the persecution of British veterans. 

Nobody likes change.  It scares people. But sometimes changes have to be made in order to progress.  The UK is not progressing.  We are devolving into something terrible.  

Who knows that our future holds.  I do feel it will  get worse...much worse, before it gets better.   Because we have  generations of mindsets that need to be re-booted and de-infantilised.

---

 Digs, as I have said several times now no body is saying that some of the ECHR is not outdated. That is why she has suggested amending it to ensure we can deport immigrants who must leave our shores but also ultimately remain in the ECHR like every other country on Earth. Except Russia and Belarus.

Why hasn't Farage suggested this? Because it suits him just fine to remove all our basic civil liberties if we aren't going to protest. We will be akin to.America only the divide between rich and poor will become so much more vast. No other country has left the ECHR entirely  the way we intend to do except the two countries above. That speaks volumes.

I am.furious with Starmer because he has allowed the optics of the party to distract from the reality. If Labour get Burnham on board, stop implementing right wing measures and kick Starmer to the curb along with his I.D cards there will be a chance of retaining our basic liberties.

Reform as a party are just a mess. One was arrested for beating up his girlfriend and Farage wanted to conceal that and lie to the country but no change there.The problem.is many people are voting for Farage not Reform and there is a distinct difference. The rest of the party with an exception of two individuals I have seen are totally unprepared when interviewed. They won't be able to do their jobs adequately. As I said they are just an unprofessional unprepared rabble united by one common interest.

Your comments on change are interesting. It is quite so we are devolving into something terrible but our reasons for thinking so may differ. We embraced change leaving the EU and that has been a disaster. Mags said if she had a second chance she wouldn't vote leave again. Hindsight is a wonderful thing..But this time round we know how dishonest and ruthless Farage is. It was always going to make the country poorer but Farage and Gove insisted that wouldn't last.It has. It is also the main reason we cannot deport immigrants. You know this. Prior to Brexit we could return migrants who had come from France back to France whilst we processed their application. Brexit has stopped us being able to do that so of course  the amounts of immigrants have tripled! Due to Brexit we have to house them all.

The immigration crisis is NOT Starmer's fault(,although the right wing media imply it is and the Brexit voters are only too happy to agree as it avoids introspection and considering they may have made an uninformed choice). Fault for the increase in immigrants lies with the Tories for allowing the public to make such a life altering decision without knowing  what leaving would truly entail and Johnson's for not making a more beneficial deal. However Brussels were  under no real obligation to help us further. .We voted  to leave the EU and that's what we got.  So embracing change is not always a good thing and just under half the population who did not want to leave the EU did not have an "infantalised" mindset. Far from it, it was they who were more informed. 

We have changed so much already  as a country Digs and not for the good. Farage said Brexit was the answer to all our immigration problems knowing full well legislation would make it so much harder to deport immigrants, I may be in error but didn't the pound crash when we left the EU?  All the resentment and bigotry is destroying our country.  Isolating us even further by leaving the ECHR in its entirety will leave us totally at the mercy of a millionaire who has no qualms sending women back to the Taliban to be tortured, or murdered, at cost to the taxpayer.

When he sends back the legal migrants keeping the NHS and care homes together our already vulnerable healthcare system will crumble which is of course intentional. . People will be forced to go private, which the Tories have tried to make possible for decades.If you can't afford to pay, tough.  Farage is totally unoriginal and following the Americans playbook. It is chilling to me what like the future holds. Hopefully once Starmer is removed people will realise isolation and an extreme right wing fringe party is not the answer.

😳@ Fluffster… what are you apologising to me for? I don’t ‘own’ this or any other thread! 🤣 

It’s just a place where I can rant about my visceral, almost primeval, loathing of Papaya Pol Pot.

Vam wrote:

---

Fluffy wrote:

---

You certainly don't bore me, not possible x

But as for giving Farage "a try"  the man honestly wants people to think immigrants eat swans,  he wants to take us out of the European Courts of Human Rights. Only 2 other countries not in it, Russia and Belarus. Don't really want to be stuck in a trio with Russia no thankyou.

Won't dwell on that here, the ideas mad. But you're correct about Trump of course he isn't serving the electorate! He doesn't want to, he wants to get rich and ensure who endorse him stay rich . The tariffs are being paid for by the American taxpayer. Do they even know that I'm.not sure they all do.

It's a mess but at least he is isn't trying to.convince Americans to leave the ECHR because they know they need their freedoms and aren't as stupid as us.

---

 Of course they are! And those who haven’t figured it out yet, soon will  

The government will very likely shut down tomorrow. No prob, he’s used to that. There were 3 government shutdowns during his first term - including the longest shutdown in US history (35 days). ‘Let them eat cake.’ Right?

There are still another 3 years of this nightmare to go, before he’s done (unless he croaks before that).

That‘s IF he leaves office willingly. He’s already floating the idea of a possible third term, no doubt confident that his embedded stooges at the Supreme Court will find a way to personalise the US Constitution to meet his specific needs.

There can be little doubt that he’s a full-on malignant narcissist, absolutely high as a kite on the fumes of his own power. His only mindset is ‘what’s in it for me?’. And of course, he’s using every lever of government to unleash spiteful retribution on anyone who dares/dared to challenge him.

But what makes him even more dangerous is that he’s also staggeringly stupid! He’s purely driven by impulse and whatever capricious whim happens to be floating around in his addled brain at the time.

As POTUS, he’s an embarrassment on the world stage and about as much use to Americans as a waterproof teabag.

 

-- Edited by Vam on Monday 29th of September 2025 09:38:18 AM

-- Edited by Vam on Monday 29th of September 2025 10:08:17 AM

---

 Totally. I can  not fathom for the life of me why the Americans who idolise Trump cannot see he has the "brain processing power" of a crumpet! When he decided to go on the attack , as he did on our Mayor, he says "he is very very bad" or something he pretends is taking place is "very very wrong". I believe one quote about King Charles said "he's a very good King". He doesn't have any adjectives  beyond  the word "very" . It drives me bonkers listening to him 

His motivations to merely make himself and his administration even more rich is so transparent yet  those with low incomes who share his views seem to think he cares about them even though the cost of living in America has shot up for the average citizen.

I came across this article Vam and if you wouldn't mind I would like your take on it. It says under Trump the economy is soaring and it's projections are more prosperous still. Is this correct or right wing manipulation? It stopped me reading citing I need to pay to read further 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/29/europeans-are-in-denial-about-causes-of-american-prosperity/

Fluffy wrote:

---

 

I came across this article Vam and if you wouldn't mind I would like your take on it. It says under Trump the economy is soaring and it's projections are more prosperous still. Is this correct or right wing manipulation? It stopped me reading citing I need to pay to read further 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/29/europeans-are-in-denial-about-causes-of-american-prosperity/

---

 Just a heads up in case it's useful, for items hidden behind a paywall you can copy and paste the url into archive.ph and see the whole shebang for free

https://archive.ph/ABGOt

@ Fluff…your link isn’t working 🤷🏻‍♀️ But I will go check it out and see if I can get behind that paywall (thanks, Anon! 👍🏻)

On the face of it, and if I had to take a wild guess, I’d say that article is probably rooted in MAGA-inspired propaganda. But I’m not an economist - I’m just deeply biased, in case you hadn’t noticed 

Avon or Maddog are probably the most fiscally-minded here, so maybe they’ll weigh in.

Anonymous wrote:

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Maddog wrote:

---

 

Decency is still very subjective, no matter how you try to define it.

 

 

---

 How would you define it?

---

 One way to define it might be to show enough respect and not behave like dumbass, heckling hicks, as the American ‘fans’ did at the Ryder Cup.

I’d love to see one of those yee-haws try to pull a stunt like that, when trump’s lardy arse is over the ball.

https://x.com/golf_com/status/1972370419840926034?s=61

https://x.com/dylan_dethier/status/1972374231041081805?s=61

Trump’s America, y’all!

Vam wrote:

---

@ Fluff…your link isn’t working 🤷🏻‍♀️ But I will go check it out and see if I can get behind that paywall (thanks, Anon! 👍🏻)

On the face of it, and if I had to take a wild guess, I’d say that article is probably rooted in MAGA-inspired propaganda. But I’m not an economist - I’m just deeply biased, in case you hadn’t noticed 

Avon or Maddog are probably the most fiscally-minded here, so maybe they’ll weigh in.

---

 Our economic numbers are good compared to the UK and Europe, but we are doing it on debt. Its unsustainable..

Also, the UK isn't worse off than Europe since Brexit.

It's worse off, but so is Europe.

The entire Western world is teetering because politicians need to promise more things the country can't afford if they want to get elected..

Maddog wrote:

---

Vam wrote:

---

@ Fluff…your link isn’t working 🤷🏻‍♀️ But I will go check it out and see if I can get behind that paywall (thanks, Anon! 👍🏻)

On the face of it, and if I had to take a wild guess, I’d say that article is probably rooted in MAGA-inspired propaganda. But I’m not an economist - I’m just deeply biased, in case you hadn’t noticed 

Avon or Maddog are probably the most fiscally-minded here, so maybe they’ll weigh in.

---

 Our economic numbers are good compared to the UK and Europe, but we are doing it on debt. Its unsustainable..

 

Also, the UK isn't worse off than Europe since Brexit.

 

It's worse off, but so is Europe.

 

The entire Western world is teetering because politicians need to promise more things the country can't afford if they want to get elected..

 

 

---

 I think one would actually have to live here to judge how, and in what ways Brits are worse off since Brexit.

It's not only in monetary terms many people feel let down.

Syl wrote:

---

Maddog wrote:

---

Vam wrote:

---

@ Fluff…your link isn’t working 🤷🏻‍♀️ But I will go check it out and see if I can get behind that paywall (thanks, Anon! 👍🏻)

On the face of it, and if I had to take a wild guess, I’d say that article is probably rooted in MAGA-inspired propaganda. But I’m not an economist - I’m just deeply biased, in case you hadn’t noticed 

Avon or Maddog are probably the most fiscally-minded here, so maybe they’ll weigh in.

---

 Our economic numbers are good compared to the UK and Europe, but we are doing it on debt. Its unsustainable..

 

Also, the UK isn't worse off than Europe since Brexit.

 

It's worse off, but so is Europe.

 

The entire Western world is teetering because politicians need to promise more things the country can't afford if they want to get elected..

 

 

---

 I think one would actually have to live here to judge how, and in what ways Brits are worse off since Brexit.

It's not only in monetary terms many people feel let down.

---

 People often feel unhappy but don't accurately understand what created that unhappiness..They often blame what is convenient. 

People in Europe are unhappy too. I doubt Brexit is to blame there..

Vam wrote:

---

😳@ Fluffster… what are you apologising to me for? I don’t ‘own’ this or any other thread! 🤣 

It’s just a place where I can rant about my visceral, almost primeval, loathing of Papaya Pol Pot.

---

 Sorry Vam, just saw thisI Obviously Digs owns the forum but you post on this thread first and foremost. I suspect that you don't appreciate topic change  is all I meant.

Your loathing of Papaya Pol Pot is totally natural and instinctive. He's dangerous,conniving and a compulsive liar with all the power he could ever want.  But Syl is right, your comments and meme 's render him comical!