Fluffy wrote:

---

Anonymous wrote:

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Red Okktober wrote:

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If someone entered the country illegally and has 'made a life for themself here', but gets found out - hard luck!

---

 The clue is in the word illegal. It’s as though some think if time passes then an illegal act should be forgotten/forgiven.

---

 Legal migrants are invited to work here in the caring ,professions , the NHS and as cleaners by the Government! There is no "illegal act"!

---

 Try reading before commenting. Both posts are talking about ILLEGALS.

Syl wrote:

---

I watched the Starmer Laura Kinsburgh interview....apart from the quite touching story about why he bought his mum a field at the bottom of her garden for the donkeys she loved when she was disabled and unable to get out, nothing else he said convinced me one iota that he is capable of running the country.

And he squirmed a bit when Andy Burnham was mentioned.

---

 Nor me! I want Andy Burnham.myself as you know. I just don't understand people blaming him for the small boats when it is the direct result of Brexit legislation.

I was just correcting Red, who quoted that Starmer called Reform.voters racist. He actually did the opposite as you saw. I can't stand misrepresentation and lies.

If Farage is kicking out non EU non white nationals out who have made a life here working with a family that is a racist policy. I agree with Starmer for once. Farage is like Trump, no.conscience. 

Let people do what they wish. We will reap what we sew as we did before. Division and resentment just breeds more division and resentment. It's Farage that lied to people before about immigration under Brexit yet they are willing to believe in him now and worse just allow innocent women to be killed.If voters objected to him sending women back to the Taliban to be killed or tortured he would drop it. But people think these women who came to us for help are expendable 

Farage is an evil man. And if we make these choices we can expect to lose all respect on the world stage. I'm glad. 

Magica wrote:

---

Magica wrote:

---

Syl wrote:

---

No one will deny that without foreign born nurses, doctors, medics in general, the NHS would not have been the huge success it has been for 70 plus years.

But as someone mentioned before, now both foreign born and british NHS workers treat foreign patients seemingly a lot more than they treat English patients.
Having spent a lot of time in various hospital departments, both for myself and others, I can categorically say that in my experience over the last 15 years, the vast majority of patients waiting to be seen in hospitals are black or Asian.

That's not a racist statement...it's a fact.

Often they have translators with them, so obviously newly arrived, which considering many bred and born brits are waiting years for badly needed ops, seems to be grossly unfair.

---

 Yes, they come into the country with health probs, especially the very old, get a blue badge, disability benefits and.operation on NHS!  So wrong, while we are put on 2 years or.more waiting lists.

---

 

---

 It's not only the old Mags, I know people who work for the NHS, a paramedic in particular,. Many will call for ambulances for trivial reasons, exaggerate their symptoms so a medic has to attend, then demand to be driven to hospital for things that could be better treated without using up services.

Brits tend to use emergency services if it is a genuine emergency, and we read about genuine emergency cases dying because ambulances are not available.

Syl wrote:

---

Magica wrote:

---

Magica wrote:

---

Syl wrote:

---

No one will deny that without foreign born nurses, doctors, medics in general, the NHS would not have been the huge success it has been for 70 plus years.

But as someone mentioned before, now both foreign born and british NHS workers treat foreign patients seemingly a lot more than they treat English patients.
Having spent a lot of time in various hospital departments, both for myself and others, I can categorically say that in my experience over the last 15 years, the vast majority of patients waiting to be seen in hospitals are black or Asian.

That's not a racist statement...it's a fact.

Often they have translators with them, so obviously newly arrived, which considering many bred and born brits are waiting years for badly needed ops, seems to be grossly unfair.

---

 Yes, they come into the country with health probs, especially the very old, get a blue badge, disability benefits and.operation on NHS!  So wrong, while we are put on 2 years or.more waiting lists.

---

 

---

 It's not only the old Mags, I know people who work for the NHS, a paramedic in particular,. Many will call for ambulances for trivial reasons, exaggerate their symptoms so a medic has to attend, then demand to be driven to hospital for things that could be better treated without using up services.

Brits tend to use emergency services if it is a genuine emergency, and we read about genuine emergency cases dying because ambulances are not available.

---

 On a well known disability forum there are posts from some disabled claiming that patient transport to and from hospitals are being withdrawn due to shortage of ambulances. So some can’t even get to their appointments even if they’re lucky enough to get one.

Anonymous wrote:

---

Red Okktober wrote:

---

If someone entered the country illegally and has 'made a life for themself here', but gets found out - hard luck!

---

 The clue is in the word illegal. It’s as though some think if time passes then an illegal act should be forgotten/forgiven.

---

 I agree, the passing of time isn't a good enough reason to be allowed to stay here.

Any migrant here legally, and who meets all the criteria for staying here, ie no criminal record, being able to speak English to a good standard, in work and paying taxes and NI etc, is welcome to stay here. This will include the huge majority of immigrant NHS workers.

Those here illegally, and those here legally, but who cannot meet the new criteria, will rightly be deported under Reform's plans

As for 'splitting up families' - there's nothing preventing family members from going with them voluntarily

Fluffy wrote:

---

I was just correcting Red, who quoted that Starmer called Reform.voters racist. He actually did the opposite as you saw. I can't stand misrepresentation and lies.

---

 No, you were not correcting me you fucking halfwit. I posted a direct quote by Zia Yusuf, who was responding to Starmer's comments. They were Yusuf's words, not mine.

Red Okktober wrote:

---

Fluffy wrote:

---

I was just correcting Red, who quoted that Starmer called Reform.voters racist. He actually did the opposite as you saw. I can't stand misrepresentation and lies.

---

 No, you were not correcting me you fucking halfwit. I posted a direct quote by Zia Yusuf, who was responding to Starmer's comments. They were Yusuf's words, not mine.

---

 It’s like being in the Twilight Zone. 

Anonymous wrote:

---

Syl wrote:

---

Magica wrote:

---

Magica wrote:

---

Syl wrote:

---

No one will deny that without foreign born nurses, doctors, medics in general, the NHS would not have been the huge success it has been for 70 plus years.

But as someone mentioned before, now both foreign born and british NHS workers treat foreign patients seemingly a lot more than they treat English patients.
Having spent a lot of time in various hospital departments, both for myself and others, I can categorically say that in my experience over the last 15 years, the vast majority of patients waiting to be seen in hospitals are black or Asian.

That's not a racist statement...it's a fact.

Often they have translators with them, so obviously newly arrived, which considering many bred and born brits are waiting years for badly needed ops, seems to be grossly unfair.

---

 Yes, they come into the country with health probs, especially the very old, get a blue badge, disability benefits and.operation on NHS!  So wrong, while we are put on 2 years or.more waiting lists.

---

 

---

 It's not only the old Mags, I know people who work for the NHS, a paramedic in particular,. Many will call for ambulances for trivial reasons, exaggerate their symptoms so a medic has to attend, then demand to be driven to hospital for things that could be better treated without using up services.

Brits tend to use emergency services if it is a genuine emergency, and we read about genuine emergency cases dying because ambulances are not available.

---

 On a well known disability forum there are posts from some disabled claiming that patient transport to and from hospitals are being withdrawn due to shortage of ambulances. So some can’t even get to their appointments even if they’re lucky enough to get one.

---

 True anon.  My old neighbour called an ambulance for trivial things.  Such a waste of resources.

Fluffy wrote:

---

Syl wrote:

---

I watched the Starmer Laura Kinsburgh interview....apart from the quite touching story about why he bought his mum a field at the bottom of her garden for the donkeys she loved when she was disabled and unable to get out, nothing else he said convinced me one iota that he is capable of running the country.

And he squirmed a bit when Andy Burnham was mentioned.

---

 Nor me! I want Andy Burnham.myself as you know. I just don't understand people blaming him for the small boats when it is the direct result of Brexit legislation.

I was just correcting Red, who quoted that Starmer called Reform.voters racist. He actually did the opposite as you saw. I can't stand misrepresentation and lies.

If Farage is kicking out non EU non white nationals out who have made a life here working with a family that is a racist policy. I agree with Starmer for once. Farage is like Trump, no.conscience. 

Let people do what they wish. We will reap what we sew as we did before. Division and resentment just breeds more division and resentment. It's Farage that lied to people before about immigration under Brexit yet they are willing to believe in him now and worse just allow innocent women to be killed.If voters objected to him sending women back to the Taliban to be killed or tortured he would drop it. But people think these women who came to us for help are expendable 

Farage is an evil man. And if we make these choices we can expect to lose all respect on the world stage. I'm glad. 

-- Edited by Fluffy on Monday 29th of September 2025 07:18:44 PM

---

 That’s long gone.

Magica wrote:

---

Anonymous wrote:

---

Syl wrote:

---

Magica wrote:

---

Magica wrote:

---

Syl wrote:

---

No one will deny that without foreign born nurses, doctors, medics in general, the NHS would not have been the huge success it has been for 70 plus years.

But as someone mentioned before, now both foreign born and british NHS workers treat foreign patients seemingly a lot more than they treat English patients.
Having spent a lot of time in various hospital departments, both for myself and others, I can categorically say that in my experience over the last 15 years, the vast majority of patients waiting to be seen in hospitals are black or Asian.

That's not a racist statement...it's a fact.

Often they have translators with them, so obviously newly arrived, which considering many bred and born brits are waiting years for badly needed ops, seems to be grossly unfair.

---

 Yes, they come into the country with health probs, especially the very old, get a blue badge, disability benefits and.operation on NHS!  So wrong, while we are put on 2 years or.more waiting lists.

---

 

---

 It's not only the old Mags, I know people who work for the NHS, a paramedic in particular,. Many will call for ambulances for trivial reasons, exaggerate their symptoms so a medic has to attend, then demand to be driven to hospital for things that could be better treated without using up services.

Brits tend to use emergency services if it is a genuine emergency, and we read about genuine emergency cases dying because ambulances are not available.

---

 On a well known disability forum there are posts from some disabled claiming that patient transport to and from hospitals are being withdrawn due to shortage of ambulances. So some can’t even get to their appointments even if they’re lucky enough to get one.

---

 True anon.  My old neighbour called an ambulance for trivial things.  Such a waste of resources.

---

 If folks were £ charged (and even prosecuted) for call outs that are proven to be trivial perhaps that may go some way in cutting these types of calls down. 

I remember listening, years ago, to EMS tapes of people dialling 911 for ridiculous reasons. Infuriating.

Red Okktober wrote:

---

Fluffy wrote:

---

I was just correcting Red, who quoted that Starmer called Reform.voters racist. He actually did the opposite as you saw. I can't stand misrepresentation and lies.

---

 No, you were not correcting me you fucking halfwit. I posted a direct quote by Zia Yusuf, who was responding to Starmer's comments. They were Yusuf's words, not mine.

---

 Why reference a quote to support your own point if it's not accurate you fucking moron.

I enjoyed that    Cheers Red!

Red Okktober wrote:

---

Anonymous wrote:

---

Red Okktober wrote:

---

If someone entered the country illegally and has 'made a life for themself here', but gets found out - hard luck!

---

 The clue is in the word illegal. It’s as though some think if time passes then an illegal act should be forgotten/forgiven.

---

 I agree, the passing of time isn't a good enough reason to be allowed to stay here.

Any migrant here legally, and who meets all the criteria for staying here, ie no criminal record, being able to speak English to a good standard, in work and paying taxes and NI etc, is welcome to stay here. This will include the huge majority of immigrant NHS workers.

Those here illegally, and those here legally, but who cannot meet the new criteria, will rightly be deported under Reform's plans

As for 'splitting up families' - there's nothing preventing family members from going with them voluntarily

---

 Yeah that goes without saying that Farage said that. He plans to abolish indefinite leave to remain, that is the issue.

You do realise the contention is that non EU legal migrants will be potentially sent home? Would mild mannered Starmer actually call a measure racist without much contemplation first?

Starmer said it would be wrong to split up families and I agree with him. You could watch the interview. And I am.posting you in.good faith here, not being sarcastic.

-- Edited by Fluffy on Monday 29th of September 2025 09:30:40 PM

Fluffy wrote:

---

Digger wrote:

---

Fluffy wrote:

---

Magica wrote:

---

Red Okktober wrote:

---

If someone entered the country illegally and has 'made a life for themself here', but gets found out - hard luck! Their time here has been a bonus for them, and it doesn't mean that they should be allowed to continue living here illegally. If someone came here legally, has contributed, and will meet any new requirements, then they are more than welcome to stay. I'm all for that type of immigrant living here.

It's often pointed out that the NHS would 'collapse' without immigrant hospital workers, but what is usually overlooked when people bring that up, is the number of immigrant patients that those immigrant doctors and nurses spend time and taxpayers money on. If there were fewer immigrant doctors and nurses, but also fewer immigrant patients, would the NHS really collapse? It would certainly be a lot different to how it is now.

In any case, most of the skilled immigrant hospital workers would meet the required criteria, and be allowed to stay here, but I suspect a fair chunk of the immigrant patients wouldn't. So if Reform get in and go ahead with their deportation plans, you have to think that it will be a positive for the NHS and not a negative.

---

 Totally agree.  He is only deporting those who came here, never worked and got benefits.for years.  Also nurses,.i.know lots of girls who wanted to train for.nursing years ago, my daughter for one, couldn't get in because of foreigners coming over,  they came first.

In Leicester only half the population  speaks English, nobody has bothered to learn our language, same.in London.

I'm not against the workers but those men coming in, do nothing.  They march up.the beach like the army.  Something very sinister is going on.  

 

---

 Um, no he isn't! He isn't even pretending to do that!He is deporting people who have lived here for decades and have paid taxes , have families and are working here..They are no different to anyone else.

Why do you want people who happen to be foreign and lived  and worked here all their life to be made to leave?? And as for your story about nurses..The NHS needs more nurses hence why legal immigration has gone up...there aren't enough British Nurses. No body denies this.

---

 He's declaring that if migrants have never claimed benefits and are earning a decent wage thereby paying taxes, it won't be a problem.

Reform states EU nationals who have settled status would not lose it under the policy. Reform said it would seek to renegotiate a UK-EU Brexit deal under which EU nationals in Britain access benefits.  The aim is for only UK citizens to get welfare.  And that's how it should be.   Our benefits system is a mess and needs an urgent shake up.  

---

. Foreigners working and paying taxes will be asked to review their Visa every 5 years despite believing this was now their home. Apparently "settled EU" citizens will be fine.

I understand.

 So Reform wants non white migrants out who have stayed and made a home here.Of course that's not racist at all.

Key Non-EU Nationalities in the NHS

1. Indian Nationals: Since 2005, Indians have been the most common nationality among non-EU migrants to the UK, accounting for about 25% of all non-EU arrivals since 2021. Many Indian healthcare professionals, including doctors and nurses, have joined the NHS, particularly in response to the demand for skilled workers.

2. Nigerian Nationals: Nigeria has also emerged as a significant source of healthcare professionals. Many Nigerian doctors and nurses have migrated to the UK, contributing to various specialties within the NHS.

3. Filipino Nationals: The Philippines is known for producing a large number of nurses who migrate to the UK. Filipino nurses are highly regarded for their skills and dedication, and they make up a substantial portion of the nursing workforce in the NHS.

4. Pakistani Nationals: Pakistan has a long history of sending healthcare professionals to the UK, including doctors and nurses, who are integral to the NHS.

 

 

 

-- Edited by Fluffy on Monday 29th of September 2025 06:48:34 PM

-- Edited by Fluffy on Monday 29th of September 2025 06:59:33 PM

---

 What on earth are you going on about?    Where has anyone said that?   A migrant is a migrant no matter their colour.   We had an American guy from another forum who married a woman here and couldn't get a visa because he didn't earn enough money.   That's just how it is, or was, at that time.  They had to spend their marriage split into 6 month periods.  

Red Okktober wrote:

---

Anonymous wrote:

---

Red Okktober wrote:

---

If someone entered the country illegally and has 'made a life for themself here', but gets found out - hard luck!

---

 The clue is in the word illegal. It’s as though some think if time passes then an illegal act should be forgotten/forgiven.

---

 I agree, the passing of time isn't a good enough reason to be allowed to stay here.

Any migrant here legally, and who meets all the criteria for staying here, ie no criminal record, being able to speak English to a good standard, in work and paying taxes and NI etc, is welcome to stay here. This will include the huge majority of immigrant NHS workers.

Those here illegally, and those here legally, but who cannot meet the new criteria, will rightly be deported under Reform's plans

As for 'splitting up families' - there's nothing preventing family members from going with them voluntarily

---

 The illegals themselves put their family‘s stability in jeopardy, no one else and there’s nothing stopping them from remaining a family.

Anonymous wrote:

---

Red Okktober wrote:

---

Anonymous wrote:

---

Red Okktober wrote:

---

If someone entered the country illegally and has 'made a life for themself here', but gets found out - hard luck!

---

 The clue is in the word illegal. It’s as though some think if time passes then an illegal act should be forgotten/forgiven.

---

 I agree, the passing of time isn't a good enough reason to be allowed to stay here.

Any migrant here legally, and who meets all the criteria for staying here, ie no criminal record, being able to speak English to a good standard, in work and paying taxes and NI etc, is welcome to stay here. This will include the huge majority of immigrant NHS workers.

Those here illegally, and those here legally, but who cannot meet the new criteria, will rightly be deported under Reform's plans

As for 'splitting up families' - there's nothing preventing family members from going with them voluntarily

---

 The illegals themselves put their family‘s stability in jeopardy, no one else and there’s nothing stopping them from remaining a family.

---

 Exactly! 

Fluffy wrote:

Yeah that goes without saying that Farage said that. He plans to abolish indefinite leave to remain, that is the issue.

You do realise the contention is that non EU legal migrants will be potentially sent home? Would mild mannered Starmer actually call a measure racist without much contemplation first?

Starmer said it would be wrong to split up families and I agree with him. You could watch the interview. And I am.posting you in.good faith here, not being sarcastic.

 

---

 You can apply for UK citizienship 1 year after securing ILR I believe. All that will happen is there will be rush of applications if Reform do win the next election. That means the policy will have little impact on people who have already resided in the UK for the five years necessary to obtain ILR. Newer arrivals will know what they are facing and can plan as a result. 

It will obviously take some time for Reform to get their legislation through Parliament and it may be substantially watered down to get it through. It will then be subject to numerous sets of legal proceedings before it even has a chance of having a meaningful impact. You may recall the Rwanda scheme wasn't very successful. That wasn't because the Conservative government was incompetent or secretly didn't want it to work. It is because our constitutional framework is conservative (small "c") but its very nature. It is meant to guard against radical change being easy to do and slows the whole process down accordingly.

Farage probably knows all this but is using immigration as a way to secure power.

Anyone who believe that Reform will have any meaningful impact on immigration is deluding themselves. It wouldn't be possible without effectively becoming a dictatorship. 

Syl wrote:

---

I have read all these comments, plenty I agree with.
I still say that if someone came here illegally many years ago, have managed to build a life, followed our laws and contributed, they should be allowed to stay. They could have been children when they were brought here, what or who would they have to go back to if they were returned to their original place of birth?

The government should concentrate on the illegals that are coming over in boats, mainly young men, no wives, no families, they are the ones who should be returned unless there are special circumstances why they cannot be.

---

 If they worked, paid taxes that's fine.  He is looking at those who came here  who contributed nothing, but fleeced our benefits system, living.on it, not contributing.  They must go!

Magica wrote:

---

Syl wrote:

---

I have read all these comments, plenty I agree with.
I still say that if someone came here illegally many years ago, have managed to build a life, followed our laws and contributed, they should be allowed to stay. They could have been children when they were brought here, what or who would they have to go back to if they were returned to their original place of birth?

The government should concentrate on the illegals that are coming over in boats, mainly young men, no wives, no families, they are the ones who should be returned unless there are special circumstances why they cannot be.

---

 If they worked, paid taxes that's fine.  He is looking at those who came here  who contributed nothing, but fleeced our benefits system, living.on it, not contributing.  They must go!

-- Edited by Magica on Tuesday 30th of September 2025 04:18:12 PM

---

 No Mags, the  BIB is not correct. The new potential legislation by Reform is to try and get rid of WORKING foreigners  who work,pay taxes and have children. Farage may be using this idea as a gimmick to entice racist voters or if it is a genuine policy it be doesn't want any foreigners in the country, even if they have worked here for decades and consider it their home.

Here's some more info-

Digger wrote:

---

Fluffy wrote:

---

Digger wrote:

---

Fluffy wrote:

---

Magica wrote:

---

Red Okktober wrote:

---

If someone entered the country illegally and has 'made a life for themself here', but gets found out - hard luck! Their time here has been a bonus for them, and it doesn't mean that they should be allowed to continue living here illegally. If someone came here legally, has contributed, and will meet any new requirements, then they are more than welcome to stay. I'm all for that type of immigrant living here.

It's often pointed out that the NHS would 'collapse' without immigrant hospital workers, but what is usually overlooked when people bring that up, is the number of immigrant patients that those immigrant doctors and nurses spend time and taxpayers money on. If there were fewer immigrant doctors and nurses, but also fewer immigrant patients, would the NHS really collapse? It would certainly be a lot different to how it is now.

In any case, most of the skilled immigrant hospital workers would meet the required criteria, and be allowed to stay here, but I suspect a fair chunk of the immigrant patients wouldn't. So if Reform get in and go ahead with their deportation plans, you have to think that it will be a positive for the NHS and not a negative.

---

 Totally agree.  He is only deporting those who came here, never worked and got benefits.for years.  Also nurses,.i.know lots of girls who wanted to train for.nursing years ago, my daughter for one, couldn't get in because of foreigners coming over,  they came first.

In Leicester only half the population  speaks English, nobody has bothered to learn our language, same.in London.

I'm not against the workers but those men coming in, do nothing.  They march up.the beach like the army.  Something very sinister is going on.  

 

---

 Um, no he isn't! He isn't even pretending to do that!He is deporting people who have lived here for decades and have paid taxes , have families and are working here..They are no different to anyone else.

Why do you want people who happen to be foreign and lived  and worked here all their life to be made to leave?? And as for your story about nurses..The NHS needs more nurses hence why legal immigration has gone up...there aren't enough British Nurses. No body denies this.

---

 He's declaring that if migrants have never claimed benefits and are earning a decent wage thereby paying taxes, it won't be a problem.

Reform states EU nationals who have settled status would not lose it under the policy. Reform said it would seek to renegotiate a UK-EU Brexit deal under which EU nationals in Britain access benefits.  The aim is for only UK citizens to get welfare.  And that's how it should be.   Our benefits system is a mess and needs an urgent shake up.  

---

. Foreigners working and paying taxes will be asked to review their Visa every 5 years despite believing this was now their home. Apparently "settled EU" citizens will be fine.

I understand.

 So Reform wants non white migrants out who have stayed and made a home here.Of course that's not racist at all.

Key Non-EU Nationalities in the NHS

1. Indian Nationals: Since 2005, Indians have been the most common nationality among non-EU migrants to the UK, accounting for about 25% of all non-EU arrivals since 2021. Many Indian healthcare professionals, including doctors and nurses, have joined the NHS, particularly in response to the demand for skilled workers.

2. Nigerian Nationals: Nigeria has also emerged as a significant source of healthcare professionals. Many Nigerian doctors and nurses have migrated to the UK, contributing to various specialties within the NHS.

3. Filipino Nationals: The Philippines is known for producing a large number of nurses who migrate to the UK. Filipino nurses are highly regarded for their skills and dedication, and they make up a substantial portion of the nursing workforce in the NHS.

4. Pakistani Nationals: Pakistan has a long history of sending healthcare professionals to the UK, including doctors and nurses, who are integral to the NHS.

 

 

 

-- Edited by Fluffy on Monday 29th of September 2025 06:48:34 PM

-- Edited by Fluffy on Monday 29th of September 2025 06:59:33 PM

---

 What on earth are you going on about?    Where has anyone said that?   A migrant is a migrant no matter their colour.   We had an American guy from another forum who married a woman here and couldn't get a visa because he didn't earn enough money.   That's just how it is, or was, at that time.  They had to spend their marriage split into 6 month periods.  

---

  We have many Indian and Nigerian immigrants working here who consider it their home and the new legislation ,if it ever came to pass ,will force parents to leave.. where will their children stay?? 

It has been stated thus far people with lower salaries will be targeted so those doing menial jobs, cleaners, care assistants etc will be forced to leave.

You don't think it's xenophobic to remove people from their homes who have lived here for years  are working and paying taxes  just because they are foreign? That is literally the epitome of discrimination.

I think it will be impossible to enforce however due to the civil unrest it will cause and frankly it's probably a stupid soundbite just to appeal to bigoted voters.