I agree with you Fluffy.
It's horrendous the way people in authority want to pit one section of society against the other. I actually DO think Reform will appeal to the many racists here, and it's a pity Starmer didn't have the balls to say so when he was asked yesterday.
Obviously some people will vote for them because a change in leadership is drastically needed, and IF that happens, the next four years will be hugely important for this country.
Magica said
Sep 30 6:56 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
I agree with you Fluffy. It's horrendous the way people in authority want to pit one section of society against the other. I actually DO think Reform will appeal to the many racists here, and it's a pity Starmer didn't have the balls to say so when he was asked yesterday.
Obviously some people will vote for them because a change in leadership is drastically needed, and IF that happens, the next four years will be hugely important for this country.
I don't think I'm racist and I'm voting Reform. Sick.of immigrants coming here and living on benefits, not working.I
Those who work are fine though.
Fluffy said
Sep 30 7:21 PM, 2025
Barksdale wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Yeah that goes without saying that Farage said that. He plans to abolish indefinite leave to remain, that is the issue.
You do realise the contention is that non EU legal migrants will be potentially sent home? Would mild mannered Starmer actually call a measure racist without much contemplation first?
Starmer said it would be wrong to split up families and I agree with him. You could watch the interview. And I am.posting you in.good faith here, not being sarcastic.
You can apply for UK citizienship 1 year after securing ILR I believe. All that will happen is there will be rush of applications if Reform do win the next election. That means the policy will have little impact on people who have already resided in the UK for the five years necessary to obtain ILR. Newer arrivals will know what they are facing and can plan as a result.
It will obviously take some time for Reform to get their legislation through Parliament and it may be substantially watered down to get it through. It will then be subject to numerous sets of legal proceedings before it even has a chance of having a meaningful impact. You may recall the Rwanda scheme wasn't very successful. That wasn't because the Conservative government was incompetent or secretly didn't want it to work. It is because our constitutional framework is conservative (small "c") but its very nature. It is meant to guard against radical change being easy to do and slows the whole process down accordingly.
Farage probably knows all this but is using immigration as a way to secure power.
Anyone who believe that Reform will have any meaningful impact on immigration is deluding themselves. It wouldn't be possible without effectively becoming a dictatorship.
Hello Avon, nice to hear from you.
Your last paragraph has made me feel better about Reform 's potential policy because that's what I was thinking, it would effectively be a dictatorship. I was imagining civil unrest, riots that were justified against this bigoted legislation.
Hopefully it's just a soundbite to appeal to xenophobic voters. If articles I have read are to.believed this potential policy has not impressed people considering voting for Farage. They care about immigrants arriving via small boat not people who have lived their lives here and just happened to live in another country.
Fluffy said
Sep 30 7:34 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
I agree with you Fluffy. It's horrendous the way people in authority want to pit one section of society against the other. I actually DO think Reform will appeal to the many racists here, and it's a pity Starmer didn't have the balls to say so when he was asked yesterday.
Obviously some people will vote for them because a change in leadership is drastically needed, and IF that happens, the next four years will be hugely important for this country.
I agree with you also!
!I really wished Starmer had gone that bit further and admitted many Reform voters were racist or at the very least xenophobic. But the right wing press are pretending he did anyway..the Daily Mail headline says "Do you care about immigration? Starmer thinks you're racist" This is why I feel a bit sorry for him, the media just tell outright lies about him and people who won't have seen the interview will believe it.
He doesn't want to alienate any possible voters but that's his problem, he's too cautions. I don't agree with Digs that he is evil, Trump.and Farage are far less scrupulous than him.
We need Andy. I really hope Starmer will accept that the public hasn't taken to him and closer to the time, allow Andy to 're join become an MP and then challenge the leadership. It will be a long process but then Labour will have someone sensible but personable at the helm who hopefully will bring back some common sense to this obsession with foreigners!
Anonymous said
Sep 30 8:35 PM, 2025
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
I agree with you Fluffy. It's horrendous the way people in authority want to pit one section of society against the other. I actually DO think Reform will appeal to the many racists here, and it's a pity Starmer didn't have the balls to say so when he was asked yesterday.
Obviously some people will vote for them because a change in leadership is drastically needed, and IF that happens, the next four years will be hugely important for this country.
I don't think I'm racist and I'm voting Reform. Sick.of immigrants coming here and living on benefits, not working.I
Those who work are fine though.
I don’t give a flying fig re skin colour. I would hold the same opinion if it were dinghy after dinghy of illegal Austrians, French etc arriving here and being catered to.
Hell, even raising a St George/ Union Jack flag is now labelled “racist”. Racist fatigue.
Syl said
Sep 30 10:49 PM, 2025
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
I agree with you Fluffy. It's horrendous the way people in authority want to pit one section of society against the other. I actually DO think Reform will appeal to the many racists here, and it's a pity Starmer didn't have the balls to say so when he was asked yesterday.
Obviously some people will vote for them because a change in leadership is drastically needed, and IF that happens, the next four years will be hugely important for this country.
I don't think I'm racist and I'm voting Reform. Sick.of immigrants coming here and living on benefits, not working.I
Those who work are fine though.
I said, not all who will vote Reform in are racist, they are just looking for a different type of leadership.
Anonymous said
Sep 30 10:53 PM, 2025
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
I agree with you Fluffy. It's horrendous the way people in authority want to pit one section of society against the other. I actually DO think Reform will appeal to the many racists here, and it's a pity Starmer didn't have the balls to say so when he was asked yesterday.
Obviously some people will vote for them because a change in leadership is drastically needed, and IF that happens, the next four years will be hugely important for this country.
I don't think I'm racist and I'm voting Reform. Sick.of immigrants coming here and living on benefits, not working.I
Those who work are fine though.
I'm not Racist either, but I will be voting Reform too because I believe it's time we started looking after our own first and I believe they will do that.
Sorry, as much as we would all like to we can't save the world! :(
Red Okktober said
Sep 30 11:22 PM, 2025
There is an insinuation in the air that Reform are a racist party, and that therefore those that will vote Reform are racist by default.
There are huge swathes of Middle Englanders who have/will jumped ship from their regular political choices to vote Reform out of frustration and exasperation at the current governments inept failure to deal with immigration.
These new Reform voters are not members of the National Front or the EDL or Tommy Robinson supporters, but regular people - mums and dads, grandads and nans etc, who don't want to see our country given away to woke ideology, and who fear for their childrens/grandchildrens future
To suggest these people are racist is underhand and also a little bit disgusting tbh.
Magica said
Sep 30 11:44 PM, 2025
Red Okktober wrote:
There is an insinuation in the air that Reform are a racist party, and that therefore those that will vote Reform are racist by default.
There are huge swathes of Middle Englanders who have/will jumped ship from their regular political choices to vote Reform out of frustration and exasperation at the current governments inept failure to deal with immigration.
These new Reform voters are not members of the National Front or the EDL or Tommy Robinson supporters, but regular people - mums and dads, grandads and nans etc, who don't want to see our country given away to woke ideology, and who fear for their childrens/grandchildrens future
To suggest these people are racist is underhand and also a little bit disgusting tbh.
Very well said!
Digger said
Sep 30 11:48 PM, 2025
Fluffy wrote:
Digger wrote:
What on earth are you going on about? Where has anyone said that? A migrant is a migrant no matter their colour. We had an American guy from another forum who married a woman here and couldn't get a visa because he didn't earn enough money. That's just how it is, or was, at that time. They had to spend their marriage split into 6 month periods.
We have many Indian and Nigerian immigrants working here who consider it their home and the new legislation ,if it ever came to pass ,will force parents to leave.. where will their children stay??
It has been stated thus far people with lower salaries will be targeted so those doing menial jobs, cleaners, care assistants etc will be forced to leave.
You don't think it's xenophobic to remove people from their homes who have lived here for years are working and paying taxes just because they are foreign? That is literally the epitome of discrimination.
I think it will be impossible to enforce however due to the civil unrest it will cause and frankly it's probably a stupid soundbite just to appeal to bigoted voters.
-- Edited by Fluffy on Tuesday 30th of September 2025 07:36:29 PM
All that Reform propose regarding the right to stay in the UK is almost identical to that currently put in place.
The Home Secretary has announced a proposed new contribution-based settlement model to reduce net migration, boost integration and reduce pressure on public services.
To ensure people contribute to the economy and society before being able to settle in the UK, under the new model they will have to be lawfully resident in the UK for the minimum of 10 years, double the current period.
A person can earn a reduction in the number of years if they meet earnings or integration requirements, while those who have been non-compliant at any point will be required to wait longer – or have their claim refused outright.
The Home Secretary has set out the proposed conditions for gaining indefinite leave to remain in the UK, including being in work, making a certain level of National Insurance contributions, not taking any benefits payments, learning English to a high standard, having a spotless criminal record, and giving back by, for example, working in your local community.
So, any migrant working and contributing to society will be fine.
Nowhere in the all the world apart from the UK can you just emigrate to another country and scrounge off benefits or get free health care. You either have to have a good job, or enough savings to satisfy the criteria or you have to leave.
Chucking around insults like racist and xenophobia is just infantile.
Digger said
Sep 30 11:49 PM, 2025
Red Okktober wrote:
There is an insinuation in the air that Reform are a racist party, and that therefore those that will vote Reform are racist by default.
There are huge swathes of Middle Englanders who have/will jumped ship from their regular political choices to vote Reform out of frustration and exasperation at the current governments inept failure to deal with immigration.
These new Reform voters are not members of the National Front or the EDL or Tommy Robinson supporters, but regular people - mums and dads, grandads and nans etc, who don't want to see our country given away to woke ideology, and who fear for their childrens/grandchildrens future
To suggest these people are racist is underhand and also a little bit disgusting tbh.
If one has to scream racist or xenophobe in order to put across an intelligent argument they've already lost it.
Syl said
Oct 1 12:05 AM, 2025
There are a lot of racists In the UK, I wonder who they will be voting for?
Anonymous said
Oct 1 12:09 AM, 2025
Red Okktober wrote:
There is an insinuation in the air that Reform are a racist party, and that therefore those that will vote Reform are racist by default.
There are huge swathes of Middle Englanders who have/will jumped ship from their regular political choices to vote Reform out of frustration and exasperation at the current governments inept failure to deal with immigration.
These new Reform voters are not members of the National Front or the EDL or Tommy Robinson supporters, but regular people - mums and dads, grandads and nans etc, who don't want to see our country given away to woke ideology, and who fear for their childrens/grandchildrens future
To suggest these people are racist is underhand and also a little bit disgusting tbh.
Name calling when the argument is lost.
Anonymous said
Oct 1 12:11 AM, 2025
Digger wrote:
Red Okktober wrote:
There is an insinuation in the air that Reform are a racist party, and that therefore those that will vote Reform are racist by default.
There are huge swathes of Middle Englanders who have/will jumped ship from their regular political choices to vote Reform out of frustration and exasperation at the current governments inept failure to deal with immigration.
These new Reform voters are not members of the National Front or the EDL or Tommy Robinson supporters, but regular people - mums and dads, grandads and nans etc, who don't want to see our country given away to woke ideology, and who fear for their childrens/grandchildrens future
To suggest these people are racist is underhand and also a little bit disgusting tbh.
If one has to scream racist or xenophobe in order to put across an intelligent argument they've already lost it.
Exactly.
Digger said
Oct 1 12:18 AM, 2025
Syl wrote:
There are a lot of racists In the UK, I wonder who they will be voting for?
I think most people in the UK are far from racist. We are a tolerant and welcoming country who have lived for decades alongside legal migrants who integrate quite happily.
Syl said
Oct 1 12:36 AM, 2025
Digger wrote:
Syl wrote:
There are a lot of racists In the UK, I wonder who they will be voting for?
I think most people in the UK are far from racist. We are a tolerant and welcoming country who have lived for decades alongside legal migrants who integrate quite happily.
I agree that the majority of people are as you say, but imo, racism has grown in the last few years.
Jewish areas have reported that people are being verbally abused just for being Jewish. That's not happened for decades.
Perhaps as white English woman we don't notice, if we were Asian or black....I am sure we would see things differently.
Syl said
Oct 1 12:56 AM, 2025
Red Okktober wrote:
There is an insinuation in the air that Reform are a racist party, and that therefore those that will vote Reform are racist by default.
There are huge swathes of Middle Englanders who have/will jumped ship from their regular political choices to vote Reform out of frustration and exasperation at the current governments inept failure to deal with immigration.
These new Reform voters are not members of the National Front or the EDL or Tommy Robinson supporters, but regular people - mums and dads, grandads and nans etc, who don't want to see our country given away to woke ideology, and who fear for their childrens/grandchildrens future
To suggest these people are racist is underhand and also a little bit disgusting tbh.
I don't think anyone has suggested that.
Magica said
Oct 1 10:09 AM, 2025
Well Starmer acted like a loonytunes yesterday. Screaming about Farage.
That's all he kept talking about, nothing about how to get rid of the invaders.
He's a man running scared band He knows it, acting like a demented fool.
He really has to go, even his own party have had enough.
Red Okktober said
Oct 1 11:22 AM, 2025
Syl wrote:
There are a lot of racists In the UK, I wonder who they will be voting for?
Without a doubt they will be voting for Reform, as they offer the most radical solutions to getting us out of this immigration nightmare. They have to vote (those that do) for someone and it sure as hell isn't going be Starmer or the Tories.
We have discussed before about far right organisations adopting the St George flag and agree that it doesn't mean that everyone flying that flag is also a far right thug, The same applies with voting Reform. Because a tiny minority (racists) of the country will vote for them, it doesn't therefore follow that all Reform voters must be racist as well. I'm not suggesting you are saying this, just answering your point, but it does seem to be a growing feeling on the left side of society (heavily fueled by the idiot in number 10) that Reform = racism.
To me, this undermines and greatly dilutes genuine racism and the victims of genuine racism. We all know what real racism is, ie something like making monkey chants at a football match when a black player touches the ball, and to lump the regular people who will vote Reform in with that type of behavior is lazy and uninspiring, and simply not true.
Red Okktober said
Oct 1 11:33 AM, 2025
Magica wrote:
Well Starmer acted like a loonytunes yesterday. Screaming about Farage. That's all he kept talking about, nothing about how to get rid of the invaders.
He's a man running scared band He knows it, acting like a demented fool.
He really has to go, even his own party have had enough.
I've never heard a politician spend so much time blaming other parties or accusing rivals as much as Starmer does.
If any person took on a new job, and 15 months later was still blaming his predecessor for his own inability to do that job, he would be fired on the basis of him being completely fuicking useless.
Every political party in history has left a mess behind for the incoming party to inherit, it's why they were voted out. It's up to the incoming party to roll their sleeves up and get on with it. Starmer does not shut up about the Tories, and now Reform.
I noticed during his speech yesterday that when he gets on a roll, he sounds exactly like a Dalek. I was half expecting him to finish with 'exterminate, exterminate'
It's horrendous the way people in authority want to pit one section of society against the other. I actually DO think Reform will appeal to the many racists here, and it's a pity Starmer didn't have the balls to say so when he was asked yesterday.
Obviously some people will vote for them because a change in leadership is drastically needed, and IF that happens, the next four years will be hugely important for this country.
I don't think I'm racist and I'm voting Reform. Sick.of immigrants coming here and living on benefits, not working.I
Those who work are fine though.
Hello Avon, nice to hear from you.
Your last paragraph has made me feel better about Reform 's potential policy because that's what I was thinking, it would effectively be a dictatorship. I was imagining civil unrest, riots that were justified against this bigoted legislation.
Hopefully it's just a soundbite to appeal to xenophobic voters. If articles I have read are to.believed this potential policy has not impressed people considering voting for Farage. They care about immigrants arriving via small boat not people who have lived their lives here and just happened to live in another country.
I agree with you also!
!I really wished Starmer had gone that bit further and admitted many Reform voters were racist or at the very least xenophobic. But the right wing press are pretending he did anyway..the Daily Mail headline says "Do you care about immigration? Starmer thinks you're racist"
This is why I feel a bit sorry for him, the media just tell outright lies about him and people who won't have seen the interview will believe it.
He doesn't want to alienate any possible voters but that's his problem, he's too cautions. I don't agree with Digs that he is evil, Trump.and Farage are far less scrupulous than him.
We need Andy.
I really hope Starmer will accept that the public hasn't taken to him and closer to the time, allow Andy to 're join become an MP and then challenge the leadership. It will be a long process but then Labour will have someone sensible but personable at the helm who hopefully will bring back some common sense to this obsession with foreigners!
I don’t give a flying fig re skin colour. I would hold the same opinion if it were dinghy after dinghy of illegal Austrians, French etc arriving here and being catered to.
Hell, even raising a St George/ Union Jack flag is now labelled “racist”. Racist fatigue.
I said, not all who will vote Reform in are racist, they are just looking for a different type of leadership.
I'm not Racist either, but I will be voting Reform too because I believe it's time we started looking after our own first and I believe they will do that.
Sorry, as much as we would all like to we can't save the world! :(
There are huge swathes of Middle Englanders who have/will jumped ship from their regular political choices to vote Reform out of frustration and exasperation at the current governments inept failure to deal with immigration.
These new Reform voters are not members of the National Front or the EDL or Tommy Robinson supporters, but regular people - mums and dads, grandads and nans etc, who don't want to see our country given away to woke ideology, and who fear for their childrens/grandchildrens future
To suggest these people are racist is underhand and also a little bit disgusting tbh.
Very well said!
All that Reform propose regarding the right to stay in the UK is almost identical to that currently put in place.
The Home Secretary has announced a proposed new contribution-based settlement model to reduce net migration, boost integration and reduce pressure on public services.
To ensure people contribute to the economy and society before being able to settle in the UK, under the new model they will have to be lawfully resident in the UK for the minimum of 10 years, double the current period.
A person can earn a reduction in the number of years if they meet earnings or integration requirements, while those who have been non-compliant at any point will be required to wait longer – or have their claim refused outright.
The Home Secretary has set out the proposed conditions for gaining indefinite leave to remain in the UK, including being in work, making a certain level of National Insurance contributions, not taking any benefits payments, learning English to a high standard, having a spotless criminal record, and giving back by, for example, working in your local community.
So, any migrant working and contributing to society will be fine.
Nowhere in the all the world apart from the UK can you just emigrate to another country and scrounge off benefits or get free health care. You either have to have a good job, or enough savings to satisfy the criteria or you have to leave.
Chucking around insults like racist and xenophobia is just infantile.
If one has to scream racist or xenophobe in order to put across an intelligent argument they've already lost it.
Name calling when the argument is lost.
Exactly.
I think most people in the UK are far from racist. We are a tolerant and welcoming country who have lived for decades alongside legal migrants who integrate quite happily.
I agree that the majority of people are as you say, but imo, racism has grown in the last few years.
Jewish areas have reported that people are being verbally abused just for being Jewish. That's not happened for decades.
Perhaps as white English woman we don't notice, if we were Asian or black....I am sure we would see things differently.
I don't think anyone has suggested that.
That's all he kept talking about, nothing about how to get rid of the invaders.
He's a man running scared band He knows it, acting like a demented fool.
He really has to go, even his own party have had enough.
Without a doubt they will be voting for Reform, as they offer the most radical solutions to getting us out of this immigration nightmare. They have to vote (those that do) for someone and it sure as hell isn't going be Starmer or the Tories.
We have discussed before about far right organisations adopting the St George flag and agree that it doesn't mean that everyone flying that flag is also a far right thug, The same applies with voting Reform. Because a tiny minority (racists) of the country will vote for them, it doesn't therefore follow that all Reform voters must be racist as well. I'm not suggesting you are saying this, just answering your point, but it does seem to be a growing feeling on the left side of society (heavily fueled by the idiot in number 10) that Reform = racism.
To me, this undermines and greatly dilutes genuine racism and the victims of genuine racism. We all know what real racism is, ie something like making monkey chants at a football match when a black player touches the ball, and to lump the regular people who will vote Reform in with that type of behavior is lazy and uninspiring, and simply not true.
I've never heard a politician spend so much time blaming other parties or accusing rivals as much as Starmer does.
If any person took on a new job, and 15 months later was still blaming his predecessor for his own inability to do that job, he would be fired on the basis of him being completely fuicking useless.
Every political party in history has left a mess behind for the incoming party to inherit, it's why they were voted out. It's up to the incoming party to roll their sleeves up and get on with it. Starmer does not shut up about the Tories, and now Reform.
I noticed during his speech yesterday that when he gets on a roll, he sounds exactly like a Dalek. I was half expecting him to finish with 'exterminate, exterminate'