The folks that run our country may have some serious decisions to make soon. Taiwan won't stand a chance. The Chinese aren't the hapless, corrupt Russians. Will we square off with the Chinese to save that island?
Will the Japanese or S Koreans? What about India who also has friendly relations with Taiwan and has massive military presence on the Chinese border. This has the potential to turn into something we haven't seen since WWII.
Maybe we just have to let the Chinese have what they want?
On another note, I'm a free trader, so I'm not real comfortable with government restrictions on trade, but I think we all have an obligation to not support the CCP any more than necessary. If you're using their products more than necessary, you're helping to fund their war machine. 🤷♂️
Maybe we just have to let the Chinese have what they want?
Like stop interfering and let them have it back?
Far to sensible.
I don't know if "back" is the correct word.
The CCP has never controlled that island.
And I doubt the Taiwanese are going to just let them have it.
Are they justified in fighting for their country regardless of what the outside world does?
Does that island not belong to the people that have governed it for 80 years?
How about countries just stop trying to annex territory against the wishes of the people that live there and stop digging up historical claims?
Well that's not going to happen so how about a much easier route for humankind and that is to stop interfering in everyone's battles?
Much easier less dead less destruction.
You're probably right.
But it's also difficult to watch someone take something that doesn't belong to them simply because they are bigger and stronger.
It's the story of colonialism and I was kind of hoping we could move past that as a species.
But sometimes you just gotta sit back and watch the weak get thrashed by the powerful I guess.
That was America's stance with Vietnam and look what happened.
Anonymous said
Apr 11 12:22 PM, 2023
When Russia invaded Ukraine my first reaction was to take sides. The side of Ukraine.
But a year later the destruction of towns cities villages people dead or disabled has me thinking differently.
All this misery was only possible on this scale by pouring ever more weapons into the situation... like pouring petrol on a fire.
If we had poured weapons into neighbouring NATO countries with big warning signs for Putin the mess that is would be minor compared to what it is today.
Yes tough shit for Ukraine and it's people but fighting everyone else's battles causes ever more bloodshed.
If it was really about caring for the Ukrainian people we would not have poured that weaponry in thereby saving hundreds of thousands of lives.
So isn't the reality more about politics than people?
Maybe we just have to let the Chinese have what they want?
Like stop interfering and let them have it back?
Far to sensible.
I don't know if "back" is the correct word.
The CCP has never controlled that island.
And I doubt the Taiwanese are going to just let them have it.
Are they justified in fighting for their country regardless of what the outside world does?
Does that island not belong to the people that have governed it for 80 years?
How about countries just stop trying to annex territory against the wishes of the people that live there and stop digging up historical claims?
Well that's not going to happen so how about a much easier route for humankind and that is to stop interfering in everyone's battles?
Much easier less dead less destruction.
You're probably right.
But it's also difficult to watch someone take something that doesn't belong to them simply because they are bigger and stronger.
It's the story of colonialism and I was kind of hoping we could move past that as a species.
But sometimes you just gotta sit back and watch the weak get thrashed by the powerful I guess.
That was America's stance with Vietnam and look what happened.
That really wasn't the case. That was to stop the spread of communism.
The North wasn't 10 times the size of the South.
Granted they had the military backing of the Soviets and some Soviet pilots.
It's always quite the dilemma in regards to defending the weak from the strong, knowing that doing nothing encourages the bullies, while getting involved often makes the problem worse. At least for the person getting involved.
Hitler gave the Brits several chances to stay out of WWII.
No doubt many British lives would have been saved if the Brits had taken him up on it.
Back to this topic, I think it will go like Crimea did on 2014. We will jaw jaw about it.
We have fucked up in terms of trade. We can't function without Chinese imports anymore. American kids can't live without TikTok and their iPhones.
Maddog said
Apr 11 4:26 PM, 2023
Unfortunately, the only thing that keeps some big dogs from chewing on the little dogs, is another big dog.
And unfortunately, that is rife with it's own problems. 🤷♂️
Anonymous said
Apr 18 9:59 PM, 2023
Maybe the British should get out of N' Ireland and the Falklands.
Maddog said
Apr 20 2:52 AM, 2023
Anonymous wrote:
Maybe the British should get out of N' Ireland and the Falklands.
Maybe all 8 billion of us should move back to the middle east or N Africa?
Assuming that's the latest concensus about where we all came from..
Anonymous said
Apr 20 1:43 PM, 2023
Anonymous wrote:
Maybe the British should get out of N' Ireland and the Falklands.
The people of N Ireland vote to remain part of the UK.
The Falklands have never belonged to Argentina and the people are British and vote to remain so and therefore get protection from the UK.
Digger said
Apr 21 12:58 AM, 2023
Maddog wrote:
That really wasn't the case. That was to stop the spread of communism.
The North wasn't 10 times the size of the South.
Granted they had the military backing of the Soviets and some Soviet pilots.
It's always quite the dilemma in regards to defending the weak from the strong, knowing that doing nothing encourages the bullies, while getting involved often makes the problem worse. At least for the person getting involved.
Hitler gave the Brits several chances to stay out of WWII.
No doubt many British lives would have been saved if the Brits had taken him up on it.
Back to this topic, I think it will go like Crimea did on 2014. We will jaw jaw about it.
We have fucked up in terms of trade. We can't function without Chinese imports anymore. American kids can't live without TikTok and their iPhones.
You don't really believe that autocrats like Hitler would have been happy to let Britain cruise along during WW2? There would have been conditions like export every Jew, disabled, gay, ethnic minority etc, for the extermination. And what country and its people would sit back while the rest of the world was threatened with invasion and annihilation? We don't do that. We never have, and hopefully never will.
Maddog said
Apr 21 4:04 AM, 2023
Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:
That really wasn't the case. That was to stop the spread of communism.
The North wasn't 10 times the size of the South.
Granted they had the military backing of the Soviets and some Soviet pilots.
It's always quite the dilemma in regards to defending the weak from the strong, knowing that doing nothing encourages the bullies, while getting involved often makes the problem worse. At least for the person getting involved.
Hitler gave the Brits several chances to stay out of WWII.
No doubt many British lives would have been saved if the Brits had taken him up on it.
Back to this topic, I think it will go like Crimea did on 2014. We will jaw jaw about it.
We have fucked up in terms of trade. We can't function without Chinese imports anymore. American kids can't live without TikTok and their iPhones.
You don't really believe that autocrats like Hitler would have been happy to let Britain cruise along during WW2? There would have been conditions like export every Jew, disabled, gay, ethnic minority etc, for the extermination. And what country and its people would sit back while the rest of the world was threatened with invasion and annihilation? We don't do that. We never have, and hopefully never will.
You didn't really have any natural resources he wanted. Plus he considered yall his equals.
As for sitting back when another country is invaded, that's the question here isn't it?
Taiwan doesn't stand a chance without our help.
Do we let them get overrun?
My heart says no. My brain says yes.
Anonymous said
Apr 25 6:26 AM, 2023
2004 article: US policy of regime change in Serbia, Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus
US position on China: "The United States approach to Taiwan has remained consistent across decades and administrations. The United States has a longstanding one China policy, which is guided by the Taiwan Relations Act, the three U.S.-China Joint Communiques, and the Six Assurances. We oppose any unilateral changes to the status quo from either side; we do not support Taiwan independence; and we expect cross-Strait differences to be resolved by peaceful means."
https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-taiwan/
The United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2758: passed on 25 October 1971, recognized the People's Republic of China (PRC) as "the only legitimate representative of China to the United Nations" and removed "the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek" (referring to Republic of China (ROC) based in Taiwan) from the United Nations.
https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/654350
The USA refuses to allow China and others to surpass it economically.
Maddog said
Apr 25 2:39 PM, 2023
Anonymous wrote:
2004 article: US policy of regime change in Serbia, Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus
US position on China: "The United States approach to Taiwan has remained consistent across decades and administrations. The United States has a longstanding one China policy, which is guided by the Taiwan Relations Act, the three U.S.-China Joint Communiques, and the Six Assurances. We oppose any unilateral changes to the status quo from either side; we do not support Taiwan independence; and we expect cross-Strait differences to be resolved by peaceful means."
https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-taiwan/
The United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2758: passed on 25 October 1971, recognized the People's Republic of China (PRC) as "the only legitimate representative of China to the United Nations" and removed "the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek" (referring to Republic of China (ROC) based in Taiwan) from the United Nations.
https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/654350
The USA refuses to allow China and others to surpass it economically.
OK. 🙄
Anonymous said
Apr 25 3:24 PM, 2023
SUDAN Time Line
AUG 24, 2022: US Ambassador appointed to Sudan (Following a 25 year lapse)
SEPT 28, 2022: US Ambassador warns Sudan against finalizing Russian naval base deal
NOV 11, 2022: Blinken urges Sudan to consider "US support for the rapid formation of a civilian-led transitional government"
DEC 5, 2022: UN brokers Framework Agreement between Sudan's military leaders and leading pro-democracy parties
DEC 7, 2022: Blinken threatens travel ban for Sudanese who endanger Framework Agreement deal
FEB 12, 2023: Sudan confirms deal for Russian naval base, key players Lavrov and Burhan
FEB 16 2023: Biden Admin sends $288 million in humanitarian aid to Sudan
MAR 9, 2023: Victoria Nuland visits Sudan to "discuss democracy
APRIL 15, 2023: Conflict in Sudan begins with the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces (under Dagalo) attacking key government sites. Sudanese Armed Forces (under General Burhan) to prevent the overthrow of the Sudanese Government.
https://apnews.com/article/china-military-taiwan-us-7549c646a377f1f199d2cda983573279
The folks that run our country may have some serious decisions to make soon. Taiwan won't stand a chance. The Chinese aren't the hapless, corrupt Russians. Will we square off with the Chinese to save that island?
Will the Japanese or S Koreans? What about India who also has friendly relations with Taiwan and has massive military presence on the Chinese border. This has the potential to turn into something we haven't seen since WWII.
Maybe we just have to let the Chinese have what they want?
On another note, I'm a free trader, so I'm not real comfortable with government restrictions on trade, but I think we all have an obligation to not support the CCP any more than necessary. If you're using their products more than necessary, you're helping to fund their war machine. 🤷♂️
Like stop interfering and let them have it back?
Far to sensible.
I don't know if "back" is the correct word.
The CCP has never controlled that island.
And I doubt the Taiwanese are going to just let them have it.
Are they justified in fighting for their country regardless of what the outside world does?
Does that island not belong to the people that have governed it for 80 years?
How about countries just stop trying to annex territory against the wishes of the people that live there and stop digging up historical claims?
Well that's not going to happen so how about a much easier route for humankind and that is to stop interfering in everyone's battles?
Much easier less dead less destruction.
You're probably right.
But it's also difficult to watch someone take something that doesn't belong to them simply because they are bigger and stronger.
It's the story of colonialism and I was kind of hoping we could move past that as a species.
But sometimes you just gotta sit back and watch the weak get thrashed by the powerful I guess.
That was America's stance with Vietnam and look what happened.
When Russia invaded Ukraine my first reaction was to take sides. The side of Ukraine.
But a year later the destruction of towns cities villages people dead or disabled has me thinking differently.
All this misery was only possible on this scale by pouring ever more weapons into the situation... like pouring petrol on a fire.
If we had poured weapons into neighbouring NATO countries with big warning signs for Putin the mess that is would be minor compared to what it is today.
Yes tough shit for Ukraine and it's people but fighting everyone else's battles causes ever more bloodshed.
If it was really about caring for the Ukrainian people we would not have poured that weaponry in thereby saving hundreds of thousands of lives.
So isn't the reality more about politics than people?
That really wasn't the case. That was to stop the spread of communism.
The North wasn't 10 times the size of the South.
Granted they had the military backing of the Soviets and some Soviet pilots.
It's always quite the dilemma in regards to defending the weak from the strong, knowing that doing nothing encourages the bullies, while getting involved often makes the problem worse. At least for the person getting involved.
Hitler gave the Brits several chances to stay out of WWII.
No doubt many British lives would have been saved if the Brits had taken him up on it.
Back to this topic, I think it will go like Crimea did on 2014. We will jaw jaw about it.
We have fucked up in terms of trade. We can't function without Chinese imports anymore. American kids can't live without TikTok and their iPhones.
And unfortunately, that is rife with it's own problems. 🤷♂️
Maybe the British should get out of N' Ireland and the Falklands.
Maybe all 8 billion of us should move back to the middle east or N Africa?
Assuming that's the latest concensus about where we all came from..
The people of N Ireland vote to remain part of the UK.
The Falklands have never belonged to Argentina and the people are British and vote to remain so and therefore get protection from the UK.
You don't really believe that autocrats like Hitler would have been happy to let Britain cruise along during WW2? There would have been conditions like export every Jew, disabled, gay, ethnic minority etc, for the extermination. And what country and its people would sit back while the rest of the world was threatened with invasion and annihilation? We don't do that. We never have, and hopefully never will.
You didn't really have any natural resources he wanted. Plus he considered yall his equals.
As for sitting back when another country is invaded, that's the question here isn't it?
Taiwan doesn't stand a chance without our help.
Do we let them get overrun?
My heart says no. My brain says yes.
2004 article: US policy of regime change in Serbia, Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa
US position on China: "The United States approach to Taiwan has remained consistent across decades and administrations. The United States has a longstanding one China policy, which is guided by the Taiwan Relations Act, the three U.S.-China Joint Communiques, and the Six Assurances. We oppose any unilateral changes to the status quo from either side; we do not support Taiwan independence; and we expect cross-Strait differences to be resolved by peaceful means."
https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-taiwan/
The United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2758: passed on 25 October 1971, recognized the People's Republic of China (PRC) as "the only legitimate representative of China to the United Nations" and removed "the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek" (referring to Republic of China (ROC) based in Taiwan) from the United Nations.
https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/654350
The USA refuses to allow China and others to surpass it economically.
OK. 🙄
SUDAN Time Line
AUG 24, 2022: US Ambassador appointed to Sudan (Following a 25 year lapse)
SEPT 28, 2022: US Ambassador warns Sudan against finalizing Russian naval base deal
NOV 11, 2022: Blinken urges Sudan to consider "US support for the rapid formation of a civilian-led transitional government"
DEC 5, 2022: UN brokers Framework Agreement between Sudan's military leaders and leading pro-democracy parties
DEC 7, 2022: Blinken threatens travel ban for Sudanese who endanger Framework Agreement deal
FEB 12, 2023: Sudan confirms deal for Russian naval base, key players Lavrov and Burhan
FEB 16 2023: Biden Admin sends $288 million in humanitarian aid to Sudan
MAR 9, 2023: Victoria Nuland visits Sudan to "discuss democracy
APRIL 15, 2023: Conflict in Sudan begins with the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces (under Dagalo) attacking key government sites. Sudanese Armed Forces (under General Burhan) to prevent the overthrow of the Sudanese Government.
APRIL 22, 2023: US evacuates Sudan
[Adapted from V.ROSEN]