Last year, authorities in Belgium ordered a modest red brick house in the south-west city of Charleroi to be torn down.
For anyone not in-the-know, the destruction of the property - which sat on a street corner yards away from a railway track and a busy flyover - would have seemed wholly unremarkable. Just another old building making way for something new.
But the move had been in the making for more than a quarter of a century, and even to this day, the local community in Charleroi and those affected by the events that unfolded there in the mid-90s are continuing to process their grief.
As of Tuesday, as part of these efforts, anyone passing the site will find a newly-opened memorial: a tree-filled garden surrounded by white walls that are decorated with a mural of a child watching a kite soar into the sky.
Underneath the memorial lies something more sinister: a soundproofed dungeon that was once used to imprison young girls who were tortured and raped by the former owner of the house and Belgium's most notorious criminal, Marc Dutroux.
The house - and Dutroux himself - first became infamous in August 1996 when he led police to two kidnapped girls who were found cowering in the secret basement after they had been subjected to horrific abuse.
Sabine Dardenne, 12, and Laetitia Delhez, 14, had been abducted separately earlier that year, chained to a bed and repeatedly raped. But as more was learned about Dutroux, it became clear they were fortunate to have been found alive.
It transpired that four more girls - Mélissa Russo and Julie Lejeune, both eight years old, An Marchal, 17, and Eefje Lambrecks, 19 - had also been kidnapped by Dutroux and his accomplices a year earlier. All four died.
School friends Russo and Lejeune were the first to be imprisoned in the house in June 1995. The investigation into Belgium's worst paedophile crimes established that they had been held in the soundproofed basement for months before they died.
Their bodies were found buried in the garden at another property (Dutroux had several), and a postmortem showed they had been starved to death.
Teenagers An Marchal and Eefje Lambrecks were themselves kidnapped and imprisoned in August 1995. They were also raped before they were killed by being buried alive. They were wrapped in plastic, their bodies found a year later.
The details of the horrifying crimes soon came to light, with Dutroux even confessing to having Dardenne and Delhez in his basement, leading police to where they were being kept and ultimately to their rescue.
With the mystery of the missing girls solved, public shock and grief soon turned to fury as it emerged not only had police missed a string of clues, but that Dutroux had been released from jail in 1992 after serving just three years of a 13-year sentence for the abduction and rape of five other girls between 1985 and 1986.
And despite the evidence, it took almost eight years for Dutroux, today aged 66, to be eventually tried and found guilty on charges including the kidnap and rape of the six girls, as well as the murder of the two older teenagers.
The whole sordid tale gets much darker, if that's possible. Read it here.
And yet some people think the death penalty is inhumane.
jackthelad said
Sep 23 5:48 PM, 2023
I just think it's wrong because you are giving them an escape from a limited regimented worrying life.
An escape from their miserable lives.
Look at Huntley and Shipman and many others all they want is it to end. Shipman managed it why do it for them?
Syl said
Sep 23 6:19 PM, 2023
jackthelad wrote:
I just think it's wrong because you are giving them an escape from a limited regimented worrying life. An escape from their miserable lives. Look at Huntley and Shipman and many others all they want is it to end. Shipman managed it why do it for them?
Because it's not about revenge, it's about justice. It also saves the families of the victims the heartache of reading about them for decades to come.
Think of Hindley and Brady, the bleeding hearts that were always campaigning for them, the fellow prisoners telling stories of how they interacted with them in prison, all that would have been prevented if they had been sentenced to death the year they were caught.
Magica said
Sep 23 7:42 PM, 2023
I want them to suffer everyday in prison. Death sentence too good for them, easy way out.
Anonymous said
Sep 23 9:07 PM, 2023
In clear cut cases death sentences are fair. What makes people think people suffer in prison, given today's human rights and ethics.
Digger said
Sep 23 10:54 PM, 2023
Magica wrote:
I want them to suffer everyday in prison. Death sentence too good for them, easy way out.
They don't suffer in prison. Far from it.
jackthelad said
Sep 23 11:15 PM, 2023
A lot of people cannot handle prison and top themselves.
Imagine being in a nine foot by seven foot room... standard British prison cell.
For the next hopefully at least twenty years maybe for the rest of your life.
Your neighbours mostly hate you and many of them want to be known for having a piece of you.
Some are offering money for people to get a piece of you and this goes on daily for years.
Ground up glass and vomit in your food today?
Those who police the roughest neighborhood you ever lived in in your life also hate you
and more often than not collude with the other bastards to help them get a piece of you or convince you daily that they will.
Often being moved from one prison to another in the middle of the night without a clue as to where you're going next.
How long could you live like that and feel hey it's ok this lifestyle.
Digger said
Sep 23 11:46 PM, 2023
jackthelad wrote:
A lot of people cannot handle prison and top themselves. Imagine being in a nine foot by seven foot room... standard British prison cell. For the next hopefully at least twenty years maybe for the rest of your life. Your neighbours mostly hate you and many of them want to be known for having a piece of you. Some are offering money for people to get a piece of you and this goes on daily for years. Ground up glass and vomit in your food today? Those who police the roughest neighborhood you ever lived in in your life also hate you and more often than not collude with the other bastards to help them get a piece of you or convince you daily that they will. Often being moved from one prison to another in the middle of the night without a clue as to where you're going next. How long could you live like that and feel hey it's ok this lifestyle.
A roof over your head and three square meals a day is still too easy for people who rape and murder kids.
jackthelad said
Sep 24 12:07 AM, 2023
Digger wrote:
jackthelad wrote:
A lot of people cannot handle prison and top themselves. Imagine being in a nine foot by seven foot room... standard British prison cell. For the next hopefully at least twenty years maybe for the rest of your life. Your neighbours mostly hate you and many of them want to be known for having a piece of you. Some are offering money for people to get a piece of you and this goes on daily for years. Ground up glass and vomit in your food today? Those who police the roughest neighborhood you ever lived in in your life also hate you and more often than not collude with the other bastards to help them get a piece of you or convince you daily that they will. Often being moved from one prison to another in the middle of the night without a clue as to where you're going next. How long could you live like that and feel hey it's ok this lifestyle.
A roof over your head and three square meals a day is still too easy for people who rape and murder kids.
That's the very basics of what most of us have with a shit load of extras in the way of comforts choices friends outings etc etc.
Take away all those extras and get down to the roof and the three meals in a very disturbing neighborhood day after day weeks blur into months at the slowest pace imaginable because you're counting every day and if you lived it you'd realise why the likes of Huntley and Shipman sought death. I couldn't be that kind to them.
Syl said
Sep 24 12:09 PM, 2023
I don't understand why people think revenge, ie, making a convicted monster suffer to the maximum, is eking out justice for their victims or their families.
In the most heinous of crimes, where there is NO doubt, and the criminal will never see the light of day again, why keep them alive?
They cost the state billions, they may or may not be living in hell. Many lifers have some sort of status in prison, apparently Hindley had privileges and even affairs in prison. Rose West is also reported to be very comfortable spending her life in jail.
Anonymous said
Sep 24 6:50 PM, 2023
jackthelad wrote:
A lot of people cannot handle prison .... Your neighbours mostly hate you and many of them want to be known for having a piece of you..... Ground up glass and vomit in your food today .... Those who police the roughest neighborhood you ever lived in in your life also hate you and more often than not collude with the other bastards to help them get a piece of you .....
You should write fiction as you have a great imagination. However reality is often very different and you are relying on others to make them "suffer". Let's imagine they are put in a psych ward and given help everyday to help them overcome there psychological disorders. Prisons nowadays are considered rehabilitation centres.
Magica said
Sep 24 7:44 PM, 2023
Syl wrote:
I don't understand why people think revenge, ie, making a convicted monster suffer to the maximum, is eking out justice for their victims or their families.
In the most heinous of crimes, where there is NO doubt, and the criminal will never see the light of day again, why keep them alive?
They cost the state billions, they may or may not be living in hell. Many lifers have some sort of status in prison, apparently Hindley had privileges and even affairs in prison. Rose West is also reported to be very comfortable spending her life in jail.
Because spending the rest of your life in a small cell must be hell. Many would rather die rather than spend years in prison. I would tbh.
-- Edited by Magica on Sunday 24th of September 2023 07:45:17 PM
Syl said
Sep 24 7:52 PM, 2023
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
I don't understand why people think revenge, ie, making a convicted monster suffer to the maximum, is eking out justice for their victims or their families.
In the most heinous of crimes, where there is NO doubt, and the criminal will never see the light of day again, why keep them alive?
They cost the state billions, they may or may not be living in hell. Many lifers have some sort of status in prison, apparently Hindley had privileges and even affairs in prison. Rose West is also reported to be very comfortable spending her life in jail.
Because spending the rest of your life in a small cell must be hell. Many would rather die rather than spend years in prison. I would tbh.
-- Edited by Magica on Sunday 24th of September 2023 07:45:17 PM
We have had this argument before Mags. You argued that capital punishment was inhumane, yet you now argue that you want them to suffer.
My argument is that their feelings and their wants are no longer the issue. If capital punishment is a quick release for them...so what?
jackthelad said
Sep 24 8:12 PM, 2023
Anonymous wrote:
jackthelad wrote:
A lot of people cannot handle prison .... Your neighbours mostly hate you and many of them want to be known for having a piece of you..... Ground up glass and vomit in your food today .... Those who police the roughest neighborhood you ever lived in in your life also hate you and more often than not collude with the other bastards to help them get a piece of you .....
You should write fiction as you have a great imagination. However reality is often very different and you are relying on others to make them "suffer". Let's imagine they are put in a psych ward and given help everyday to help them overcome there psychological disorders. Prisons nowadays are considered rehabilitation centres.
I've been to prison so do have some experience.
If they get sent to hospital then they will receive benefits from the DWP whatever they may along with having a bank account and be able to have regular visits and stuff from outside that a prisoner couldn't have and have a reasonably comfortable life and if they're sent to hospital they wouldn't be executed either if execution was available.
-- Edited by jackthelad on Sunday 24th of September 2023 08:14:02 PM
Magica said
Sep 24 10:33 PM, 2023
Syl wrote:
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
I don't understand why people think revenge, ie, making a convicted monster suffer to the maximum, is eking out justice for their victims or their families.
In the most heinous of crimes, where there is NO doubt, and the criminal will never see the light of day again, why keep them alive?
They cost the state billions, they may or may not be living in hell. Many lifers have some sort of status in prison, apparently Hindley had privileges and even affairs in prison. Rose West is also reported to be very comfortable spending her life in jail.
Because spending the rest of your life in a small cell must be hell. Many would rather die rather than spend years in prison. I would tbh.
-- Edited by Magica on Sunday 24th of September 2023 07:45:17 PM
We have had this argument before Mags. You argued that capital punishment was inhumane, yet you now argue that you want them to suffer.
My argument is that their feelings and their wants are no longer the issue. If capital punishment is a quick release for them...so what?
No I don't find it inhumane, just executing them years later as in America, well I suppose that is inhumane. Also, I've always said I want them to suffer, no easy way out.
Articles like this make me feel physically sick, those poor defenceless animals, horrific.
What would make a human being so depraved? I hope his background is studied, what was he like as a child?, when did this start, maybe by trying to understand what twisted traits cause this sort of behaviour, it could help others in the future.
Articles like this make me feel physically sick, those poor defenceless animals, horrific.
What would make a human being so depraved? I hope his background is studied, what was he like as a child?, when did this start, maybe by trying to understand what twisted traits cause this sort of behaviour, it could help others in the future.
He's not some thicko council estate scumbag but an educated University type.
Last year, authorities in Belgium ordered a modest red brick house in the south-west city of Charleroi to be torn down.
For anyone not in-the-know, the destruction of the property - which sat on a street corner yards away from a railway track and a busy flyover - would have seemed wholly unremarkable. Just another old building making way for something new.
But the move had been in the making for more than a quarter of a century, and even to this day, the local community in Charleroi and those affected by the events that unfolded there in the mid-90s are continuing to process their grief.
As of Tuesday, as part of these efforts, anyone passing the site will find a newly-opened memorial: a tree-filled garden surrounded by white walls that are decorated with a mural of a child watching a kite soar into the sky.
Underneath the memorial lies something more sinister: a soundproofed dungeon that was once used to imprison young girls who were tortured and raped by the former owner of the house and Belgium's most notorious criminal, Marc Dutroux.
The house - and Dutroux himself - first became infamous in August 1996 when he led police to two kidnapped girls who were found cowering in the secret basement after they had been subjected to horrific abuse.
Sabine Dardenne, 12, and Laetitia Delhez, 14, had been abducted separately earlier that year, chained to a bed and repeatedly raped. But as more was learned about Dutroux, it became clear they were fortunate to have been found alive.
It transpired that four more girls - Mélissa Russo and Julie Lejeune, both eight years old, An Marchal, 17, and Eefje Lambrecks, 19 - had also been kidnapped by Dutroux and his accomplices a year earlier. All four died.
School friends Russo and Lejeune were the first to be imprisoned in the house in June 1995. The investigation into Belgium's worst paedophile crimes established that they had been held in the soundproofed basement for months before they died.
Their bodies were found buried in the garden at another property (Dutroux had several), and a postmortem showed they had been starved to death.
Teenagers An Marchal and Eefje Lambrecks were themselves kidnapped and imprisoned in August 1995. They were also raped before they were killed by being buried alive. They were wrapped in plastic, their bodies found a year later.
The details of the horrifying crimes soon came to light, with Dutroux even confessing to having Dardenne and Delhez in his basement, leading police to where they were being kept and ultimately to their rescue.
With the mystery of the missing girls solved, public shock and grief soon turned to fury as it emerged not only had police missed a string of clues, but that Dutroux had been released from jail in 1992 after serving just three years of a 13-year sentence for the abduction and rape of five other girls between 1985 and 1986.
And despite the evidence, it took almost eight years for Dutroux, today aged 66, to be eventually tried and found guilty on charges including the kidnap and rape of the six girls, as well as the murder of the two older teenagers.
The whole sordid tale gets much darker, if that's possible. Read it here.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12544083
An escape from their miserable lives.
Look at Huntley and Shipman and many others all they want is it to end. Shipman managed it why do it for them?
Because it's not about revenge, it's about justice. It also saves the families of the victims the heartache of reading about them for decades to come.
Think of Hindley and Brady, the bleeding hearts that were always campaigning for them, the fellow prisoners telling stories of how they interacted with them in prison, all that would have been prevented if they had been sentenced to death the year they were caught.
In clear cut cases death sentences are fair. What makes people think people suffer in prison, given today's human rights and ethics.
They don't suffer in prison. Far from it.
Imagine being in a nine foot by seven foot room... standard British prison cell.
For the next hopefully at least twenty years maybe for the rest of your life.
Your neighbours mostly hate you and many of them want to be known for having a piece of you.
Some are offering money for people to get a piece of you and this goes on daily for years.
Ground up glass and vomit in your food today?
Those who police the roughest neighborhood you ever lived in in your life also hate you
and more often than not collude with the other bastards to help them get a piece of you or convince you daily that they will.
Often being moved from one prison to another in the middle of the night without a clue as to where you're going next.
How long could you live like that and feel hey it's ok this lifestyle.
A roof over your head and three square meals a day is still too easy for people who rape and murder kids.
That's the very basics of what most of us have with a shit load of extras in the way of comforts choices friends outings etc etc.
Take away all those extras and get down to the roof and the three meals in a very disturbing neighborhood day after day weeks blur into months at the slowest pace imaginable because you're counting every day and if you lived it you'd realise why the likes of Huntley and Shipman sought death. I couldn't be that kind to them.
In the most heinous of crimes, where there is NO doubt, and the criminal will never see the light of day again, why keep them alive?
They cost the state billions, they may or may not be living in hell. Many lifers have some sort of status in prison, apparently Hindley had privileges and even affairs in prison. Rose West is also reported to be very comfortable spending her life in jail.
You should write fiction as you have a great imagination. However reality is often very different and you are relying on others to make them "suffer". Let's imagine they are put in a psych ward and given help everyday to help them overcome there psychological disorders. Prisons nowadays are considered rehabilitation centres.
Because spending the rest of your life in a small cell must be hell. Many would rather die rather than spend years in prison. I would tbh.
-- Edited by Magica on Sunday 24th of September 2023 07:45:17 PM
We have had this argument before Mags. You argued that capital punishment was inhumane, yet you now argue that you want them to suffer.
My argument is that their feelings and their wants are no longer the issue. If capital punishment is a quick release for them...so what?
I've been to prison so do have some experience.
If they get sent to hospital then they will receive benefits from the DWP whatever they may along with having a bank account and be able to have regular visits and stuff from outside that a prisoner couldn't have and have a reasonably comfortable life and if they're sent to hospital they wouldn't be executed either if execution was available.
-- Edited by jackthelad on Sunday 24th of September 2023 08:14:02 PM
No I don't find it inhumane, just executing them years later as in America, well I suppose that is inhumane. Also, I've always said I want them to suffer, no easy way out.
Holy Crap...just NO!!!!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12560879
This is appalling, what's wrong with some people!
Articles like this make me feel physically sick, those poor defenceless animals, horrific.
What would make a human being so depraved? I hope his background is studied, what was he like as a child?, when did this start, maybe by trying to understand what twisted traits cause this sort of behaviour, it could help others in the future.
He's not some thicko council estate scumbag but an educated University type.