What happened to entering the profession for the good of their fellow man?
"As junior doctors walk out on strike again today in pursuit of a 35 per cent pay increase, they will surely be aware that their decision to stop work for the next six days could cost lives.
In 2023, at almost 53,000, there were more excess deaths in the UK than in any non-pandemic year since the Second World War. Undiagnosed cancers, untreated heart attacks and delayed operations took a heavy toll, as nurses, paramedics and finally junior doctors all took part in strike action.
With more than seven million people already on waiting lists for treatment from the NHS, the situation can only get worse in the week ahead, as consultants cover the work of striking doctors on top of their existing duties.
With this bleak outlook ahead for 2024, must the sick go on dying for want of treatment? Tragically, this seems inevitable, and it’s hard not to conclude that the health service is broken beyond repair. As Britain’s excess deaths outpace those of many other comparable developed nations, can any government really persist in believing that the NHS is the best healthcare model available?
More and more of us are deciding that the only way to get prompt treatment is to pay for it. Last year saw a record number of people opting for private treatment, not just through health insurers but also, increasingly, by paying to see a private GP and for tests and operations.
In contrast to previous generations, this includes many in their 20s and 30s, who lack confidence in a service that does not respond to demand. Research published in the autumn found that 18-24 year olds were the most likely of all age groups to have used private healthcare, and the vast majority of under-34s would consider going private.
Meanwhile, older generations are increasingly being forced to choose between paying for an expensive operation or putting up with a life of pain and restricted mobility. Tens of thousands of people are now paying for cataract removal, at around £3,000 a time, or hip replacement surgeries costing £15,000. The increase in upfront payments is in addition to a rise in membership of private health insurance schemes to cover such surgery, as well as cancer tests and treatments.
Britain currently has the worst of all worlds, its people being forced to pay heavily through their taxes for a health service that doesn’t treat them adequately, and then having to pay for private services on top of that.
In the meantime, junior doctors are putting the final nail in the coffin of the health service that they profess to love."
The older generation have spent 50 plus years paying into the NHS through NI and Taxation. Now, when they need it the most, they are being forced to pay privately for a service they have already paid into all their working lives....what a farce.
Anonymous said
Jan 3 3:05 PM, 2024
Shame on them … the next generation of crap, unprofessional, inexperienced doctors!… probably only there in the first place because Daddy’s a doctor! … no empathy, compassion, bedside manner etc… just the title will do! … God help us!
Maddog said
Jan 3 4:40 PM, 2024
This is what happens when you make your medical professionals government employees and allow government employees to organize against the citizens they are supposed to serve..
I went to the doctor a month ago.
I sat down and was seen within 5 minutes..
A nurse took me to get my vitals taken amd then took me to a room.
My doctor came in in about 3 minutes and we talked about my health for about 20.
I was directed to another room where my blood was drawn immediately..
Then I was taken for x rays of my knee and shoulder..
After that I walked out the door and said thanks..
All of this took one hour and they billed my insurance..
Is my insurance expensive?
Yes, and I believe well worth it.
jackthelad said
Jan 3 8:23 PM, 2024
The junior doctors are backed by the BMA and are striking to get their earnings back to 2008 levels.
They are averaging fifteen quid an hour and that's two quid an hour more than a shelf stacker in Lidl.
They are facing Tory politics which are slowly destroying the NHS by design.
jackthelad said
Jan 3 8:33 PM, 2024
jackthelad wrote:
The junior doctors are backed by the BMA and are striking to get their earnings back to 2008 levels. They are averaging fifteen quid an hour and that's two quid an hour more than a shelf stacker in Lidl. They are facing Tory politics which are slowly destroying the NHS by design.
Tories raking in money from private health firms as NHS is on its knees https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-raking-money-private-health-29017569
Dr Megan Smith, an NHS anaesthetist in London and member of campaign group EveryDoctor, said of our revelations: “This is sickening. It is the epitome of letting the fox into the henhouse.
“Private healthcare firms, in effeTories raking in money from private health firms as NHS is on its kneesct, paying for access to politicians and obtaining benefits from cosying up to them undermines the integrity of our NHS.
jackthelad said
Jan 3 8:36 PM, 2024
But a Labour source said: “The best advert for private healthcare is long NHS waiting times. The Tories have delivered the longest in history. Private healthcare has never had it so good.”
Anonymous said
Jan 3 9:34 PM, 2024
Syl wrote:
The older generation have spent 50 plus years paying into the NHS through NI and Taxation. Now, when they need it the most, they are being forced to pay privately for a service they have already paid into all their working lives....what a farce.
Utter shite, I lived and worked in the UK in the 90's. Back then we were told NHS is collapsing waiting lists are long better to go private. So I did but I still had to pay NI for something I wouldn't be using so the likes of you could get "free treatment'
The doctors and nurses have every right to strike and strike they should. There's never going to be a good time to strike is there
Anonymous said
Jan 3 9:54 PM, 2024
Maddog wrote:
This is what happens when you make your medical professionals government employees and allow government employees to organize against the citizens they are supposed to serve..
I went to the doctor a month ago.
I sat down and was seen within 5 minutes..
A nurse took me to get my vitals taken amd then took me to a room.
My doctor came in in about 3 minutes and we talked about my health for about 20.
I was directed to another room where my blood was drawn immediately..
Then I was taken for x rays of my knee and shoulder..
After that I walked out the door and said thanks..
All of this took one hour and they billed my insurance..
Is my insurance expensive?
Yes, and I believe well worth it.
Same for me Maddog.
I had an old shoulder injury flair up and was in immense pain. I thought I had actually broke something by the second day. On the third I couldn't move my arm at all.
My wife said enough and called a shoulder specialist I had been to before. She was told tomorrow for an appointment. Wife explained the pain I was in and was told bring him down now. I walked into his office Doctor came out after about 5 minutes with another patient and called me straight in.
Had my examination and told me I needed an MRI. He made a call and I went over to the MRI place. Walked in filled the usual forms waited 10 minutes then was called downstairs where I was met with the person who operated the machine and was told it would be about 30 minutes because the person in front of me wouldn't stay still.
Got seen and left and on the way home I stopped at my local pharmacy and picked up painkillers that the doctor had electronically written for me to pick up.
from deciding that I needed to go to the doctors whole thing took 4 hours at most.
My youngest was playing high school basketball and opposing team player landed on his foot and damaged his big toe nail. This was around 6pm on the 27 December. We took him to a CITYMD place and they gave him injections and cleaned the nail area and bandaged him and he was back home within about 90 minutes.
I've experienced both UK and USA medicine. USA wins hands down every time.
Syl said
Jan 4 12:07 AM, 2024
Anonymous wrote:
Syl wrote:
The older generation have spent 50 plus years paying into the NHS through NI and Taxation. Now, when they need it the most, they are being forced to pay privately for a service they have already paid into all their working lives....what a farce.
Utter shite, I lived and worked in the UK in the 90's. Back then we were told NHS is collapsing waiting lists are long better to go private. So I did but I still had to pay NI for something I wouldn't be using so the likes of you could get "free treatment'
The doctors and nurses have every right to strike and strike they should. There's never going to be a good time to strike is there
The likes of me paid tax and insurance all our working lives, 80% of it going towards the NHS. Did you?....thought not.
In return I scarcely used the NHS because I was lucky enough not to need it.
Everyone has the right to strike, knowing people will die because of their actions is a matter for their own conscience.
Magica said
Jan 4 1:08 AM, 2024
Syl wrote:
The older generation have spent 50 plus years paying into the NHS through NI and Taxation. Now, when they need it the most, they are being forced to pay privately for a service they have already paid into all their working lives....what a farce.
True we paid in all our lives and we can't afford private. Operations cost thousands we just don't have. I've always said the NHS will fold one-day. God help us then
Syl said
Jan 4 1:08 AM, 2024
jackthelad wrote:
The junior doctors are backed by the BMA and are striking to get their earnings back to 2008 levels. They are averaging fifteen quid an hour and that's two quid an hour more than a shelf stacker in Lidl. They are facing Tory politics which are slowly destroying the NHS by design.
Difference being in 5 years time a Lidl worker will still be paid a similar wage, whereas a junior Dr will be qualified.
"What is the lowest salary for a doctor in the UK?
For junior doctors, basic pay will be between £32,397 and £63,162, with average total full-time earnings likely to be around £41,300 for those in their first year of practice, and £71,300 for specialty registrars towards the end of their training (Table 1).24 Aug 2023"?
The older generation have spent 50 plus years paying into the NHS through NI and Taxation. Now, when they need it the most, they are being forced to pay privately for a service they have already paid into all their working lives....what a farce.
True we paid in all our lives and we can't afford private. Operations cost thousands we just don't have. I've always said the NHS will fold one-day. God help us then
By the time joints need replacing, generally people are older and retired.
For eg, I have had knee and hip replacements, also need second knee replacement, cost privately would be around £50,000.
We were promised free health care from birth to death....and that is what we have paid in for.....and up to the last few years or so our NHS was working.
Maybe the millions who live here and have contributed nothing should pay for private health care, ease the burden on the NHS and free up the services for the millions who have paid in for 50 plus years.
Anonymous said
Jan 4 7:02 AM, 2024
Syl wrote:
We were promised free health care from birth to death....and that is what we have paid in for.....
I don't think it works like that. When you paid in it didn't go into your own private lifetime pot, it went into a communal pot that covered everyone's health care at the time. Now your care is being funded by everyone who's currently making contributions.
Digger said
Jan 4 9:43 AM, 2024
How can the Government cave in and give the Junior Doctors a 35 percent pay increase when the nurses and other health workers got less?
I don't hold with this striking nonsense in the medical profession. You go into it knowing exactly what you'll earn and the hours involved and the earning potential for the future. People's lives depend on you and that should be your priority, not how much money you can make. Don't like it? Fuck off and get another job that pays you what you think you're worth. Nobody is forcing any of them to do this kind of work. They're not poorly paid, and a doctor's earning potential can go into three figures.
People are going to die because of these avaricious brats. I have absolutely no sympathy with them. I get that they train for years, have fancy degrees, do long hours blah blah. But that's what they choose to do. That's what the job entails. To hear all these bleeding heart types banging on about how marvellous doctors are, well, yeah, that's their fucking job. Their job is to save lives. It's not some saintly calling that demands a special pedestal elevating them higher than us mere mortals. They're not God. They're people who have chosen to go into the medical profession to help others. It's their job.
SF said
Jan 4 12:08 PM, 2024
Maddog wrote:
This is what happens when you make your medical professionals government employees and allow government employees to organize against the citizens they are supposed to serve..
I went to the doctor a month ago.
I sat down and was seen within 5 minutes..
A nurse took me to get my vitals taken amd then took me to a room.
My doctor came in in about 3 minutes and we talked about my health for about 20.
I was directed to another room where my blood was drawn immediately..
Then I was taken for x rays of my knee and shoulder..
After that I walked out the door and said thanks..
All of this took one hour and they billed my insurance..
Is my insurance expensive?
Yes, and I believe well worth it.
I’ve got private health insurance via work and I’ve used it once in 10 years.
Yes, it was very quick and very thorough.
But why is your insurance so expensive ? It’s because the doctors, once they know they have an insurance patient, will add each and every test and treatment they can get away with, as it is one big cash cow.
You can glorify it as much as you like, but the fundamental point is you need to be able to afford it. If you can’t, you are abandoned in the US. That is not the sort of society I want to live in.
Syl said
Jan 4 2:44 PM, 2024
Anonymous wrote:
Syl wrote:
We were promised free health care from birth to death....and that is what we have paid in for.....
I don't think it works like that. When you paid in it didn't go into your own private lifetime pot, it went into a communal pot that covered everyone's health care at the time. Now your care is being funded by everyone who's currently making contributions.
Many pensioners are still contributing, me included...paying tax on money we have already paid tax on.
Maddog said
Jan 4 4:24 PM, 2024
SF wrote:
Maddog wrote:
This is what happens when you make your medical professionals government employees and allow government employees to organize against the citizens they are supposed to serve..
I went to the doctor a month ago.
I sat down and was seen within 5 minutes..
A nurse took me to get my vitals taken amd then took me to a room.
My doctor came in in about 3 minutes and we talked about my health for about 20.
I was directed to another room where my blood was drawn immediately..
Then I was taken for x rays of my knee and shoulder..
After that I walked out the door and said thanks..
All of this took one hour and they billed my insurance..
Is my insurance expensive?
Yes, and I believe well worth it.
I’ve got private health insurance via work and I’ve used it once in 10 years.
Yes, it was very quick and very thorough.
But why is your insurance so expensive ? It’s because the doctors, once they know they have an insurance patient, will add each and every test and treatment they can get away with, as it is one big cash cow.
You can glorify it as much as you like, but the fundamental point is you need to be able to afford it. If you can’t, you are abandoned in the US. That is not the sort of society I want to live in.
Insurance companies will challenge unnecessary tests.
My insurance is expensive because quality care, quickly, provided by medical professionals who are highly paid isn't cheap.
I don't even know what a Junior Doctor is, but the wages I'm reading on this post are less than most of our nurses.
As for being left behind, we have government paid for Healthcare for the poor amd subsidies for those with lower incomes.
The difference is, for most people, healthcare isn't provided by government workers.
It's provided by a private provider, either being paid by the consumer, an insurance company or the government..or a mixture of the three.
Canada is facing the same problems as the UK, because they have the same system..
I'm sure Europe has problems too, but they have private medicine funded by a mixture of insurance and government ..
Maddog said
Jan 4 4:31 PM, 2024
Anonymous wrote:
Syl wrote:
We were promised free health care from birth to death....and that is what we have paid in for.....
I don't think it works like that. When you paid in it didn't go into your own private lifetime pot, it went into a communal pot that covered everyone's health care at the time. Now your care is being funded by everyone who's currently making contributions.
Correct, none of these government schemes work like that. You pay now, to support the older folks now..
When it's your turn to tap into those funds, you hope there are an even larger group paying in to support you.
It's a ponzi scheme that is collapsing around the western world in varying degrees because the population is getting top heavy with folks over 60.
The young folks didn't crank out enough babies/workers to keep the scheme growing..
This week, Xi's government was bashing women for not making more babies.
Remember when they were killing female babies as late as 20 years ago?
SF said
Jan 4 5:00 PM, 2024
Maddog wrote:
SF wrote:
Maddog wrote:
This is what happens when you make your medical professionals government employees and allow government employees to organize against the citizens they are supposed to serve..
I went to the doctor a month ago.
I sat down and was seen within 5 minutes..
A nurse took me to get my vitals taken amd then took me to a room.
My doctor came in in about 3 minutes and we talked about my health for about 20.
I was directed to another room where my blood was drawn immediately..
Then I was taken for x rays of my knee and shoulder..
After that I walked out the door and said thanks..
All of this took one hour and they billed my insurance..
Is my insurance expensive?
Yes, and I believe well worth it.
I’ve got private health insurance via work and I’ve used it once in 10 years.
Yes, it was very quick and very thorough.
But why is your insurance so expensive ? It’s because the doctors, once they know they have an insurance patient, will add each and every test and treatment they can get away with, as it is one big cash cow.
You can glorify it as much as you like, but the fundamental point is you need to be able to afford it. If you can’t, you are abandoned in the US. That is not the sort of society I want to live in.
Insurance companies will challenge unnecessary tests.
My insurance is expensive because quality care, quickly, provided by medical professionals who are highly paid isn't cheap.
I don't even know what a Junior Doctor is, but the wages I'm reading on this post are less than most of our nurses.
As for being left behind, we have government paid for Healthcare for the poor amd subsidies for those with lower incomes.
The difference is, for most people, healthcare isn't provided by government workers.
It's provided by a private provider, either being paid by the consumer, an insurance company or the government..or a mixture of the three.
Canada is facing the same problems as the UK, because they have the same system..
I'm sure Europe has problems too, but they have private medicine funded by a mixture of insurance and government ..
So what is the healthcare experience of those with no access to insurance in the US?
What happened to entering the profession for the good of their fellow man?
"As junior doctors walk out on strike again today in pursuit of a 35 per cent pay increase, they will surely be aware that their decision to stop work for the next six days could cost lives.
In 2023, at almost 53,000, there were more excess deaths in the UK than in any non-pandemic year since the Second World War. Undiagnosed cancers, untreated heart attacks and delayed operations took a heavy toll, as nurses, paramedics and finally junior doctors all took part in strike action.
With more than seven million people already on waiting lists for treatment from the NHS, the situation can only get worse in the week ahead, as consultants cover the work of striking doctors on top of their existing duties.
With this bleak outlook ahead for 2024, must the sick go on dying for want of treatment? Tragically, this seems inevitable, and it’s hard not to conclude that the health service is broken beyond repair. As Britain’s excess deaths outpace those of many other comparable developed nations, can any government really persist in believing that the NHS is the best healthcare model available?
More and more of us are deciding that the only way to get prompt treatment is to pay for it. Last year saw a record number of people opting for private treatment, not just through health insurers but also, increasingly, by paying to see a private GP and for tests and operations.
In contrast to previous generations, this includes many in their 20s and 30s, who lack confidence in a service that does not respond to demand. Research published in the autumn found that 18-24 year olds were the most likely of all age groups to have used private healthcare, and the vast majority of under-34s would consider going private.
Meanwhile, older generations are increasingly being forced to choose between paying for an expensive operation or putting up with a life of pain and restricted mobility. Tens of thousands of people are now paying for cataract removal, at around £3,000 a time, or hip replacement surgeries costing £15,000. The increase in upfront payments is in addition to a rise in membership of private health insurance schemes to cover such surgery, as well as cancer tests and treatments.
Britain currently has the worst of all worlds, its people being forced to pay heavily through their taxes for a health service that doesn’t treat them adequately, and then having to pay for private services on top of that.
In the meantime, junior doctors are putting the final nail in the coffin of the health service that they profess to love."
Junior doctors are killing the NHS they claim to love (msn.com)
Shame on them
… the next generation of crap, unprofessional, inexperienced doctors!… probably only there in the first place because Daddy’s a doctor! 
… no empathy, compassion, bedside manner etc… just the title will do! 
… God help us!
I went to the doctor a month ago.
I sat down and was seen within 5 minutes..
A nurse took me to get my vitals taken amd then took me to a room.
My doctor came in in about 3 minutes and we talked about my health for about 20.
I was directed to another room where my blood was drawn immediately..
Then I was taken for x rays of my knee and shoulder..
After that I walked out the door and said thanks..
All of this took one hour and they billed my insurance..
Is my insurance expensive?
Yes, and I believe well worth it.
They are averaging fifteen quid an hour and that's two quid an hour more than a shelf stacker in Lidl.
They are facing Tory politics which are slowly destroying the NHS by design.
Tories raking in money from private health firms as NHS is on its knees https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-raking-money-private-health-29017569
Dr Megan Smith, an NHS anaesthetist in London and member of campaign group EveryDoctor, said of our revelations: “This is sickening. It is the epitome of letting the fox into the henhouse.
“Private healthcare firms, in effeTories raking in money from private health firms as NHS is on its kneesct, paying for access to politicians and obtaining benefits from cosying up to them undermines the integrity of our NHS.
Utter shite, I lived and worked in the UK in the 90's. Back then we were told NHS is collapsing waiting lists are long better to go private. So I did but I still had to pay NI for something I wouldn't be using so the likes of you could get "free treatment'
The doctors and nurses have every right to strike and strike they should. There's never going to be a good time to strike is there
Same for me Maddog.
I had an old shoulder injury flair up and was in immense pain. I thought I had actually broke something by the second day. On the third I couldn't move my arm at all.
My wife said enough and called a shoulder specialist I had been to before. She was told tomorrow for an appointment. Wife explained the pain I was in and was told bring him down now. I walked into his office Doctor came out after about 5 minutes with another patient and called me straight in.
Had my examination and told me I needed an MRI. He made a call and I went over to the MRI place. Walked in filled the usual forms waited 10 minutes then was called downstairs where I was met with the person who operated the machine and was told it would be about 30 minutes because the person in front of me wouldn't stay still.
Got seen and left and on the way home I stopped at my local pharmacy and picked up painkillers that the doctor had electronically written for me to pick up.
from deciding that I needed to go to the doctors whole thing took 4 hours at most.
My youngest was playing high school basketball and opposing team player landed on his foot and damaged his big toe nail. This was around 6pm on the 27 December. We took him to a CITYMD place and they gave him injections and cleaned the nail area and bandaged him and he was back home within about 90 minutes.
I've experienced both UK and USA medicine. USA wins hands down every time.
The likes of me paid tax and insurance all our working lives, 80% of it going towards the NHS. Did you?....thought not.
In return I scarcely used the NHS because I was lucky enough not to need it.
Everyone has the right to strike, knowing people will die because of their actions is a matter for their own conscience.
True we paid in all our lives and we can't afford private. Operations cost thousands we just don't have. I've always said the NHS will fold one-day. God help us then
Difference being in 5 years time a Lidl worker will still be paid a similar wage, whereas a junior Dr will be qualified.
"What is the lowest salary for a doctor in the UK?
By the time joints need replacing, generally people are older and retired.
For eg, I have had knee and hip replacements, also need second knee replacement, cost privately would be around £50,000.
We were promised free health care from birth to death....and that is what we have paid in for.....and up to the last few years or so our NHS was working.
Maybe the millions who live here and have contributed nothing should pay for private health care, ease the burden on the NHS and free up the services for the millions who have paid in for 50 plus years.
How can the Government cave in and give the Junior Doctors a 35 percent pay increase when the nurses and other health workers got less?
I don't hold with this striking nonsense in the medical profession. You go into it knowing exactly what you'll earn and the hours involved and the earning potential for the future. People's lives depend on you and that should be your priority, not how much money you can make. Don't like it? Fuck off and get another job that pays you what you think you're worth. Nobody is forcing any of them to do this kind of work. They're not poorly paid, and a doctor's earning potential can go into three figures.
People are going to die because of these avaricious brats. I have absolutely no sympathy with them. I get that they train for years, have fancy degrees, do long hours blah blah. But that's what they choose to do. That's what the job entails. To hear all these bleeding heart types banging on about how marvellous doctors are, well, yeah, that's their fucking job. Their job is to save lives. It's not some saintly calling that demands a special pedestal elevating them higher than us mere mortals. They're not God. They're people who have chosen to go into the medical profession to help others. It's their job.
I’ve got private health insurance via work and I’ve used it once in 10 years.
Yes, it was very quick and very thorough.
But why is your insurance so expensive ? It’s because the doctors, once they know they have an insurance patient, will add each and every test and treatment they can get away with, as it is one big cash cow.
You can glorify it as much as you like, but the fundamental point is you need to be able to afford it. If you can’t, you are abandoned in the US. That is not the sort of society I want to live in.
Many pensioners are still contributing, me included...paying tax on money we have already paid tax on.
Insurance companies will challenge unnecessary tests.
My insurance is expensive because quality care, quickly, provided by medical professionals who are highly paid isn't cheap.
I don't even know what a Junior Doctor is, but the wages I'm reading on this post are less than most of our nurses.
As for being left behind, we have government paid for Healthcare for the poor amd subsidies for those with lower incomes.
The difference is, for most people, healthcare isn't provided by government workers.
It's provided by a private provider, either being paid by the consumer, an insurance company or the government..or a mixture of the three.
Canada is facing the same problems as the UK, because they have the same system..
I'm sure Europe has problems too, but they have private medicine funded by a mixture of insurance and government ..
Correct, none of these government schemes work like that. You pay now, to support the older folks now..
When it's your turn to tap into those funds, you hope there are an even larger group paying in to support you.
It's a ponzi scheme that is collapsing around the western world in varying degrees because the population is getting top heavy with folks over 60.
The young folks didn't crank out enough babies/workers to keep the scheme growing..
This week, Xi's government was bashing women for not making more babies.
Remember when they were killing female babies as late as 20 years ago?
So what is the healthcare experience of those with no access to insurance in the US?