When did this 'them v us' start to escalate so badly?
Teddy Boys v authority.
Mods v rockers.
Punks v establishment.
Usually youngsters rebelling against something or other.
But now great swathes of society seem to be simmering with resentment against someone...and lately it's people with British 'standards' against Muslims....all Muslims.
I think I would hate to be a Muslim living in the UK right now.
Digger said
Aug 9 1:12 PM, 2024
Syl wrote:
When did this 'them v us' start to escalate so badly?
Teddy Boys v authority.
Mods v rockers.
Punks v establishment.
Usually youngsters rebelling against something or other.
But now great swathes of society seem to be simmering with resentment against someone...and lately it's people with British 'standards' against Muslims....all Muslims.
I think I would hate to be a Muslim living in the UK right now.
I'd hate to a Jew living in the UK right now.
I'd hate to be a vulnerable white teenager living in the UK right now
I'd hate to be a lonely 80 year old living in the UK right now.
I'd hate to be the mother of a child murdered in the UK right now.
So long as human beings have holes in their arses, tribalism will prevail. It's hard wired into us.
Digger said
Aug 9 1:15 PM, 2024
Syl wrote:
When did this 'them v us' start to escalate so badly?
Teddy Boys v authority.
Mods v rockers.
Punks v establishment.
Usually youngsters rebelling against something or other.
But now great swathes of society seem to be simmering with resentment against someone...and lately it's people with British 'standards' against Muslims....all Muslims.
I think I would hate to be a Muslim living in the UK right now.
Let's not lose sight of why there's an increase in the unpopularity of Muslims, not just in the UK but all over Europe. Sadly, when a particular race/religion/faction in society are peopled by those who wish others harm, the rest get tarred with the same brush. A friend of mine has a father in his 90s now who hates the Japanese. You can probably figure out why.
Syl said
Aug 9 1:51 PM, 2024
There are many peaceful Muslims who do no harm to anyone. Some are scared to go out right now...we don't want to live in that kind of country.
Unfortunately, there is a type of human being who only sees things in black and white (or people) and they cannot differentiate between the good and the bad.
I do blame the police and the authorities who have looked the other way when a minority of them have practised their barbaric ways in a civilised country....but that's not the fault of the majority.
Syl said
Aug 9 1:58 PM, 2024
Digger wrote:
Syl wrote:
When did this 'them v us' start to escalate so badly?
Teddy Boys v authority.
Mods v rockers.
Punks v establishment.
Usually youngsters rebelling against something or other.
But now great swathes of society seem to be simmering with resentment against someone...and lately it's people with British 'standards' against Muslims....all Muslims.
I think I would hate to be a Muslim living in the UK right now.
I'd hate to a Jew living in the UK right now.
I'd hate to be a vulnerable white teenager living in the UK right now
I'd hate to be a lonely 80 year old living in the UK right now.
I'd hate to be the mother of a child murdered in the UK right now.
So long as human beings have holes in their arses, tribalism will prevail. It's hard wired into us.
And it's getting worse.
We seem to be getting back to the mindset of' NO BLACKS, NO IRISH NO DOGS' seen in shop/pub/accomodation windows way back in the day.
Magica said
Aug 9 3:13 PM, 2024
Syl wrote:
There are many peaceful Muslims who do no harm to anyone. Some are scared to go out right now...we don't want to live in that kind of country. Unfortunately, there is a type of human being who only sees things in black and white (or people) and they cannot differentiate between the good and the bad.
I do blame the police and the authorities who have looked the other way when a minority of them have practised their barbaric ways in a civilised country....but that's not the fault of the majority.
Thousands of Muslims want to press their religion on us. This is their aim for Europe. This scares me for.my grandchildren. No one wants these illegals invading and getting everything for nothing. Enough is enough imo.
Syl said
Aug 9 4:51 PM, 2024
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
There are many peaceful Muslims who do no harm to anyone. Some are scared to go out right now...we don't want to live in that kind of country. Unfortunately, there is a type of human being who only sees things in black and white (or people) and they cannot differentiate between the good and the bad.
I do blame the police and the authorities who have looked the other way when a minority of them have practised their barbaric ways in a civilised country....but that's not the fault of the majority.
Thousands of Muslims want to press their religion on us. This is their aim for Europe. This scares me for.my grandchildren. No one wants these illegals invading and getting everything for nothing. Enough is enough imo.
I agree that enough is enough re illegals coming and staying here.
Many are here for economic reasons, and when boats filled with mainly young men arrive, they should be deported again.
As for them wanting to press their religion on us, I believe that's a minority of radicals, and that's when the law of the land should step in to control them.
Maddog said
Aug 9 5:22 PM, 2024
I posted this elsewhere so I I'll just paste it here too.
The UK, and the US needs immigrants.
What they also need are politicians that can explain why, instead of politicians that call people racists when they ask why.
Especially working class people who are falling through the cracks and not doing well (Folks Labour used to fight for).
Because if politicians are too arrogant to explain why immigrants are needed, and think the.people concerned about it ar xenophobes, someone else who listens to these people will tell them what they want to hear.
Also, politicians need to explain in no uncertain terms that immigration is supposed to be a mutually beneficial situation and that's going to require effort on the part of immigrants.
Syl said
Aug 9 5:49 PM, 2024
Maddog wrote:
I posted this elsewhere so I I'll just paste it here too.
The UK, and the US needs immigrants.
What they also need are politicians that can explain why, instead of politicians that call people racists when they ask why.
Especially working class people who are falling through the cracks and not doing well (Folks Labour used to fight for).
Because if politicians are too arrogant to explain why immigrants are needed, and think the.people concerned about it ar xenophobes, someone else who listens to these people will tell them what they want to hear.
Also, politicians need to explain in no uncertain terms that immigration is supposed to be a mutually beneficial situation and that's going to require effort on the part of immigrants.
I should think, in the UK, anyone who thinks immigration isn't wanted or needed, hasn't ever needed hospital treatment, because without immigrants the NHS would have hardly any Dr's or nurses. We need skilled, and even unskilled workers here, what we don't need are thousands of young men arriving every month, illegally, no matter what their reasons to be here are.
."In the year ending June 2023, there were 52,530 irregular migrants detected entering the UK, up 17% from the year ending June 2022. 85% of these arrived via small boats."
Those figures are from the GOV UK website. The figure rises each year, and we as a small island cant cope with the needs of the people already here and contributing, much less the thousands who come illegally.
We do need explanations from politicians, but tbh, I think the shower we have don't have the answers.
Magica said
Aug 9 8:55 PM, 2024
Syl wrote:
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
There are many peaceful Muslims who do no harm to anyone. Some are scared to go out right now...we don't want to live in that kind of country. Unfortunately, there is a type of human being who only sees things in black and white (or people) and they cannot differentiate between the good and the bad.
I do blame the police and the authorities who have looked the other way when a minority of them have practised their barbaric ways in a civilised country....but that's not the fault of the majority.
Thousands of Muslims want to press their religion on us. This is their aim for Europe. This scares me for.my grandchildren. No one wants these illegals invading and getting everything for nothing. Enough is enough imo.
I agree that enough is enough re illegals coming and staying here.
Many are here for economic reasons, and when boats filled with mainly young men arrive, they should be deported again.
As for them wanting to press their religion on us, I believe that's a minority of radicals, and that's when the law of the land should step in to control them.
Totally agree Syl.
Digger said
Aug 9 10:22 PM, 2024
Syl wrote:
There are many peaceful Muslims who do no harm to anyone. Some are scared to go out right now...we don't want to live in that kind of country. Unfortunately, there is a type of human being who only sees things in black and white (or people) and they cannot differentiate between the good and the bad.
I do blame the police and the authorities who have looked the other way when a minority of them have practised their barbaric ways in a civilised country....but that's not the fault of the majority.
Look at the way Spain wants no more British tourists? All based on what a few scumbags do.
Digger said
Aug 9 10:24 PM, 2024
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
I posted this elsewhere so I I'll just paste it here too.
The UK, and the US needs immigrants.
What they also need are politicians that can explain why, instead of politicians that call people racists when they ask why.
Especially working class people who are falling through the cracks and not doing well (Folks Labour used to fight for).
Because if politicians are too arrogant to explain why immigrants are needed, and think the.people concerned about it ar xenophobes, someone else who listens to these people will tell them what they want to hear.
Also, politicians need to explain in no uncertain terms that immigration is supposed to be a mutually beneficial situation and that's going to require effort on the part of immigrants.
I should think, in the UK, anyone who thinks immigration isn't wanted or needed, hasn't ever needed hospital treatment, because without immigrants the NHS would have hardly any Dr's or nurses. We need skilled, and even unskilled workers here, what we don't need are thousands of young men arriving every month, illegally, no matter what their reasons to be here are.
."In the year ending June 2023, there were 52,530 irregular migrants detected entering the UK, up 17% from the year ending June 2022. 85% of these arrived via small boats."
Those figures are from the GOV UK website. The figure rises each year, and we as a small island cant cope with the needs of the people already here and contributing, much less the thousands who come illegally.
We do need explanations from politicians, but tbh, I think the shower we have don't have the answers.
I think it's a disgrace that the NHS won't train our own to be nurses. They prefer to bring them in. Our own have to go abroad to train then come back to get work. That's a bloody disgrace.
Maddog said
Aug 9 10:30 PM, 2024
Digger wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
I posted this elsewhere so I I'll just paste it here too.
The UK, and the US needs immigrants.
What they also need are politicians that can explain why, instead of politicians that call people racists when they ask why.
Especially working class people who are falling through the cracks and not doing well (Folks Labour used to fight for).
Because if politicians are too arrogant to explain why immigrants are needed, and think the.people concerned about it ar xenophobes, someone else who listens to these people will tell them what they want to hear.
Also, politicians need to explain in no uncertain terms that immigration is supposed to be a mutually beneficial situation and that's going to require effort on the part of immigrants.
I should think, in the UK, anyone who thinks immigration isn't wanted or needed, hasn't ever needed hospital treatment, because without immigrants the NHS would have hardly any Dr's or nurses. We need skilled, and even unskilled workers here, what we don't need are thousands of young men arriving every month, illegally, no matter what their reasons to be here are.
."In the year ending June 2023, there were 52,530 irregular migrants detected entering the UK, up 17% from the year ending June 2022. 85% of these arrived via small boats."
Those figures are from the GOV UK website. The figure rises each year, and we as a small island cant cope with the needs of the people already here and contributing, much less the thousands who come illegally.
We do need explanations from politicians, but tbh, I think the shower we have don't have the answers.
I think it's a disgrace that the NHS won't train our own to be nurses. They prefer to bring them in. Our own have to go abroad to train then come back to get work. That's a bloody disgrace.
I would imagine your nurses that go abroad to train stay abroad, where the pay is better.
The NHS is a service provider and as such, it can't export its work like say Apple with iPhones.
But it can use cheaper labor from poorer areas overseas if it can entice them.
Labor costs are some of the biggest expenses for medicine. The NHS is going to keep the costs as low as possible.
jackb said
Aug 9 11:16 PM, 2024
The fact its illegal but defended supported protected by the government is the bit I find difficult to understand.
Syl said
Aug 9 11:34 PM, 2024
Digger wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
I posted this elsewhere so I I'll just paste it here too.
The UK, and the US needs immigrants.
What they also need are politicians that can explain why, instead of politicians that call people racists when they ask why.
Especially working class people who are falling through the cracks and not doing well (Folks Labour used to fight for).
Because if politicians are too arrogant to explain why immigrants are needed, and think the.people concerned about it ar xenophobes, someone else who listens to these people will tell them what they want to hear.
Also, politicians need to explain in no uncertain terms that immigration is supposed to be a mutually beneficial situation and that's going to require effort on the part of immigrants.
I should think, in the UK, anyone who thinks immigration isn't wanted or needed, hasn't ever needed hospital treatment, because without immigrants the NHS would have hardly any Dr's or nurses. We need skilled, and even unskilled workers here, what we don't need are thousands of young men arriving every month, illegally, no matter what their reasons to be here are.
."In the year ending June 2023, there were 52,530 irregular migrants detected entering the UK, up 17% from the year ending June 2022. 85% of these arrived via small boats."
Those figures are from the GOV UK website. The figure rises each year, and we as a small island cant cope with the needs of the people already here and contributing, much less the thousands who come illegally.
We do need explanations from politicians, but tbh, I think the shower we have don't have the answers.
I think it's a disgrace that the NHS won't train our own to be nurses. They prefer to bring them in. Our own have to go abroad to train then come back to get work. That's a bloody disgrace.
Yes that's wrong, we should invest in training our own nurses.
We train our own Dr's...then they bugger off to work elsewhere, that's wrong too.
Thousands of UK-trained doctors flee to work overseas as NHS staffing crisis laid bare
In March, 8,549 doctor vacancies in secondary care were reported in England, as data shows 13,400 UK-trained doctors practised abroad in 2020, where they get higher pay or a better work-life balance
Maddog said
Aug 10 12:28 AM, 2024
Syl wrote:
Digger wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
I posted this elsewhere so I I'll just paste it here too.
The UK, and the US needs immigrants.
What they also need are politicians that can explain why, instead of politicians that call people racists when they ask why.
Especially working class people who are falling through the cracks and not doing well (Folks Labour used to fight for).
Because if politicians are too arrogant to explain why immigrants are needed, and think the.people concerned about it ar xenophobes, someone else who listens to these people will tell them what they want to hear.
Also, politicians need to explain in no uncertain terms that immigration is supposed to be a mutually beneficial situation and that's going to require effort on the part of immigrants.
I should think, in the UK, anyone who thinks immigration isn't wanted or needed, hasn't ever needed hospital treatment, because without immigrants the NHS would have hardly any Dr's or nurses. We need skilled, and even unskilled workers here, what we don't need are thousands of young men arriving every month, illegally, no matter what their reasons to be here are.
."In the year ending June 2023, there were 52,530 irregular migrants detected entering the UK, up 17% from the year ending June 2022. 85% of these arrived via small boats."
Those figures are from the GOV UK website. The figure rises each year, and we as a small island cant cope with the needs of the people already here and contributing, much less the thousands who come illegally.
We do need explanations from politicians, but tbh, I think the shower we have don't have the answers.
I think it's a disgrace that the NHS won't train our own to be nurses. They prefer to bring them in. Our own have to go abroad to train then come back to get work. That's a bloody disgrace.
Yes that's wrong, we should invest in training our own nurses.
We train our own Dr's...then they bugger off to work elsewhere, that's wrong too.
Thousands of UK-trained doctors flee to work overseas as NHS staffing crisis laid bare
In March, 8,549 doctor vacancies in secondary care were reported in England, as data shows 13,400 UK-trained doctors practised abroad in 2020, where they get higher pay or a better work-life balance
The world is basically a free-ish market, and government jobs programs that don't pay the going wage will lose employees to systems that do.
Back when the Soviets ran Russia they could basically keep their trained people there, against their will..
The UK isn't like that. They have to pay better to keep workers, which means more taxes.
You're asking people to work for less out of patriotism..
But don't get so patriotic that you start waving the flag, then you're racist..
Your patriotism is to be limited to accepting below average wages..
Syl said
Aug 10 1:07 AM, 2024
If we spend years and in excess of £250 grand to train each Dr, they should either repay some of the cost or work here for a set amount of time....maybe the years they spent qualifying.
I don't think that's unreasonable.
Syl said
Aug 10 1:13 AM, 2024
Digger wrote:
Syl wrote:
There are many peaceful Muslims who do no harm to anyone. Some are scared to go out right now...we don't want to live in that kind of country. Unfortunately, there is a type of human being who only sees things in black and white (or people) and they cannot differentiate between the good and the bad.
I do blame the police and the authorities who have looked the other way when a minority of them have practised their barbaric ways in a civilised country....but that's not the fault of the majority.
Look at the way Spain wants no more British tourists? All based on what a few scumbags do.
Greece are going the same way.
Having said that, we have not seen any sign of hostility when we have been abroad.
Maddog said
Aug 10 1:54 AM, 2024
Syl wrote:
If we spend years and in excess of £250 grand to train each Dr, they should either repay some of the cost or work here for a set amount of time....maybe the years they spent qualifying.
I don't think that's unreasonable.
That's reasonable. We have small cities in the middle of no where that do something like that..
A friend of mines nephew had his school loans paid for if he would be an OBGYN in Big Spring Texas, because the only one they had was retiring and Midland Texas, where the next closest one was, is about 50 miles away.
I think he had to stay 5 or 10 years. He's part of the community now and been there at least 25..
SF said
Aug 10 10:39 AM, 2024
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
There are many peaceful Muslims who do no harm to anyone. Some are scared to go out right now...we don't want to live in that kind of country. Unfortunately, there is a type of human being who only sees things in black and white (or people) and they cannot differentiate between the good and the bad.
I do blame the police and the authorities who have looked the other way when a minority of them have practised their barbaric ways in a civilised country....but that's not the fault of the majority.
Thousands of Muslims want to press their religion on us. This is their aim for Europe. This scares me for.my grandchildren. No one wants these illegals invading and getting everything for nothing. Enough is enough imo.
I agree that enough is enough re illegals coming and staying here.
Many are here for economic reasons, and when boats filled with mainly young men arrive, they should be deported again.
As for them wanting to press their religion on us, I believe that's a minority of radicals, and that's when the law of the land should step in to control them.
Totally agree Syl.
That’s your stock phrase when the two brain cells can’t come up with any more stupid ideas.
When did this 'them v us' start to escalate so badly?
Teddy Boys v authority.
Mods v rockers.
Punks v establishment.
Usually youngsters rebelling against something or other.
But now great swathes of society seem to be simmering with resentment against someone...and lately it's people with British 'standards' against Muslims....all Muslims.
I think I would hate to be a Muslim living in the UK right now.
I'd hate to a Jew living in the UK right now.
I'd hate to be a vulnerable white teenager living in the UK right now
I'd hate to be a lonely 80 year old living in the UK right now.
I'd hate to be the mother of a child murdered in the UK right now.
So long as human beings have holes in their arses, tribalism will prevail. It's hard wired into us.
Let's not lose sight of why there's an increase in the unpopularity of Muslims, not just in the UK but all over Europe. Sadly, when a particular race/religion/faction in society are peopled by those who wish others harm, the rest get tarred with the same brush. A friend of mine has a father in his 90s now who hates the Japanese. You can probably figure out why.
Unfortunately, there is a type of human being who only sees things in black and white (or people) and they cannot differentiate between the good and the bad.
I do blame the police and the authorities who have looked the other way when a minority of them have practised their barbaric ways in a civilised country....but that's not the fault of the majority.
And it's getting worse.
We seem to be getting back to the mindset of' NO BLACKS, NO IRISH NO DOGS' seen in shop/pub/accomodation windows way back in the day.
Thousands of Muslims want to press their religion on us. This is their aim for Europe. This scares me for.my grandchildren. No one wants these illegals invading and getting everything for nothing. Enough is enough imo.
I agree that enough is enough re illegals coming and staying here.
Many are here for economic reasons, and when boats filled with mainly young men arrive, they should be deported again.
As for them wanting to press their religion on us, I believe that's a minority of radicals, and that's when the law of the land should step in to control them.
The UK, and the US needs immigrants.
What they also need are politicians that can explain why, instead of politicians that call people racists when they ask why.
Especially working class people who are falling through the cracks and not doing well (Folks Labour used to fight for).
Because if politicians are too arrogant to explain why immigrants are needed, and think the.people concerned about it ar xenophobes, someone else who listens to these people will tell them what they want to hear.
Also, politicians need to explain in no uncertain terms that immigration is supposed to be a mutually beneficial situation and that's going to require effort on the part of immigrants.
I should think, in the UK, anyone who thinks immigration isn't wanted or needed, hasn't ever needed hospital treatment, because without immigrants the NHS would have hardly any Dr's or nurses. We need skilled, and even unskilled workers here, what we don't need are thousands of young men arriving every month, illegally, no matter what their reasons to be here are.
."In the year ending June 2023, there were 52,530 irregular migrants detected entering the UK, up 17% from the year ending June 2022. 85% of these arrived via small boats."
Those figures are from the GOV UK website. The figure rises each year, and we as a small island cant cope with the needs of the people already here and contributing, much less the thousands who come illegally.
We do need explanations from politicians, but tbh, I think the shower we have don't have the answers.
Totally agree Syl.
Look at the way Spain wants no more British tourists? All based on what a few scumbags do.
I think it's a disgrace that the NHS won't train our own to be nurses. They prefer to bring them in. Our own have to go abroad to train then come back to get work. That's a bloody disgrace.
I would imagine your nurses that go abroad to train stay abroad, where the pay is better.
The NHS is a service provider and as such, it can't export its work like say Apple with iPhones.
But it can use cheaper labor from poorer areas overseas if it can entice them.
Labor costs are some of the biggest expenses for medicine. The NHS is going to keep the costs as low as possible.
Yes that's wrong, we should invest in training our own nurses.
We train our own Dr's...then they bugger off to work elsewhere, that's wrong too.
Thousands of UK-trained doctors flee to work overseas as NHS staffing crisis laid bare
In March, 8,549 doctor vacancies in secondary care were reported in England, as data shows 13,400 UK-trained doctors practised abroad in 2020, where they get higher pay or a better work-life balance
The world is basically a free-ish market, and government jobs programs that don't pay the going wage will lose employees to systems that do.
Back when the Soviets ran Russia they could basically keep their trained people there, against their will..
The UK isn't like that. They have to pay better to keep workers, which means more taxes.
You're asking people to work for less out of patriotism..
But don't get so patriotic that you start waving the flag, then you're racist..
Your patriotism is to be limited to accepting below average wages..
I don't think that's unreasonable.
Greece are going the same way.
Having said that, we have not seen any sign of hostility when we have been abroad.
That's reasonable. We have small cities in the middle of no where that do something like that..
A friend of mines nephew had his school loans paid for if he would be an OBGYN in Big Spring Texas, because the only one they had was retiring and Midland Texas, where the next closest one was, is about 50 miles away.
I think he had to stay 5 or 10 years. He's part of the community now and been there at least 25..
That’s your stock phrase when the two brain cells can’t come up with any more stupid ideas.