How will they be grown up to know who to vote for.
If they can vote are they grown up enough to go in pubs and drink alcohol?I
They are known as kids. Now if the can vote, they can go to prison for offences too.
Syl said
Jul 17 12:23 PM, 2025
Given that the average 16 year old is less socially developed (imo) than most 16 year olds a generation or more ago...I don't think it's a particularly good idea.
Magica said
Jul 17 12:45 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
Given that the average 16 year old is less socially developed (imo) than most 16 year olds a generation or more ago...I don't think it's a particularly good idea.
Me neither. Still at school!
Fluffy said
Jul 17 1:02 PM, 2025
Magica wrote:
By next Election, 16 yr old can vote.
How will they be grown up to know who to vote for.
If they can vote are they grown up enough to go in pubs and drink alcohol?I
They are known as kids. Now if the can vote, they can go to prison for offences too.
I think if the age of consent is 16 then they they should be permitted to vote at the same age.. But the laws in this country make no sense logically anyway imo ..you can raise a child at 16 but not have a glass of wine ??
Taking care of a baby at such a young age must be so difficult as they may love the baby so much but lack the emotional maturity to handle the challenge it brings. It's kids raising kids. That being said, the age of consent is younger in other countries.
I don't necessarily agree that they won't know who to vote for, this youngest generation are the most politically and socially aware. Girls of that age are also more likely to vote for left leaning parties.
So if Labour have introduced this initiative then I don't think it would be too cynical to suggest it's been done as an easy way to obtain more votes.
Red Okktober said
Jul 17 1:04 PM, 2025
I believe that anyone who is still in education shouldn't be allowed to vote until they are 21, due to all the lefty wokeness that is rife in schools and unis, which will surely influence student voters.
You can be sure Labour are only doing it to get more votes, and nothing to do with any bullshit reasons they will give for lowering the age
A person under 21 who is in work, should be allowed to vote, but only after they have been in work for say 12 months. By then they would have gained experience of wages, taxes, bills etc, and therefore earned their right to vote.
So I would be ok with working 17 year olds getting the vote, but not ok with 20 year old students to getting it
-- Edited by Red Okktober on Thursday 17th of July 2025 01:05:16 PM
Vam said
Jul 17 4:36 PM, 2025
Red Okktober wrote:
I believe that anyone who is still in education shouldn't be allowed to vote until they are 21, due to all the lefty wokeness that is rife in schools and unis, which will surely influence student voters.
You can be sure Labour are only doing it to get more votes, and nothing to do with any bullshit reasons they will give for lowering the age
A person under 21 who is in work, should be allowed to vote, but only after they have been in work for say 12 months. By then they would have gained experience of wages, taxes, bills etc, and therefore earned their right to vote.
So I would be ok with working 17 year olds getting the vote, but not ok with 20 year old students to getting it
-- Edited by Red Okktober on Thursday 17th of July 2025 01:05:16 PM
My initial reaction was to imagine it might be a good thing, if only to encourage youngsters to engage more in politics and become more focused on what’s happening in the world around them. The real world, not the one on their phone screens.
But your take makes much more sense. Practical experience and life’s lessons would probably make them more grounded, rather than making choices based on shite they’re seeing on TikTok and the like.
Magica said
Jul 17 5:43 PM, 2025
Fluffy wrote:
Magica wrote:
By next Election, 16 yr old can vote.
How will they be grown up to know who to vote for.
If they can vote are they grown up enough to go in pubs and drink alcohol?I
They are known as kids. Now if the can vote, they can go to prison for offences too.
I think if the age of consent is 16 then they they should be permitted to vote at the same age.. But the laws in this country make no sense logically anyway imo ..you can raise a child at 16 but not have a glass of wine ??
Taking care of a baby at such a young age must be so difficult as they may love the baby so much but lack the emotional maturity to handle the challenge it brings. It's kids raising kids. That being said, the age of consent is younger in other countries.
I don't necessarily agree that they won't know who to vote for, this youngest generation are the most politically and socially aware. Girls of that age are also more likely to vote for left leaning parties.
So if Labour have introduced this initiative then I don't think it would be too cynical to suggest it's been done as an easy way to obtain more votes.
Of course it has Fluffs. Thing is, most kids follow their parents thinking and I can't see anyone voting Labour unless they're immigrants tbh.
Digger said
Jul 17 5:51 PM, 2025
Well, if this is the case then we can hope to see 16 year olds driving, drinking, and getting tried as adults by our courts. Imagine the fucking carnage.
Maddog said
Jul 17 5:58 PM, 2025
Digger wrote:
Well, if this is the case then we can hope to see 16 year olds driving, drinking, and getting tried as adults by our courts. Imagine the fucking carnage.
We allow 16 year olds to drive (15 in some cases), but you have to be 21 to drink.
What constitutes an adult is the most confusing set of laws in the world.
Depends if you want sex, seeing naked people, handguns, long guns, voting, contracts, drinking, fighting in war, or driving.
No one can vote for a federal office until 18.
But they have tried letting 16 year olds vote in local elections..
Red Okktober said
Jul 17 6:25 PM, 2025
Vam wrote:
My initial reaction was to imagine it might be a good thing, if only to encourage youngsters to engage more in politics and become more focused on what’s happening in the world around them. The real world, not the one on their phone screens.
But your take makes much more sense. Practical experience and life’s lessons would probably make them more grounded, rather than making choices based on shite they’re seeing on TikTok and the like.
Working for 12 months plus would also instill responsibilities like getting to work on time and being answerable to your boss etc, and I think that is deserving of being able to vote for things that could affect your life as a working person.
Whereas some purple haired non-binary oddball on campus, whose life revolves around cancel culture and finding offence in everything, hasn't earned that same right imo, even though they may be older.
Just wishful thinking though, as having a staggered age voting system will never happen.
Fluffy said
Jul 18 10:38 AM, 2025
Red Okktober wrote:
I believe that anyone who is still in education shouldn't be allowed to vote until they are 21, due to all the lefty wokeness that is rife in schools and unis, which will surely influence student voters.
You can be sure Labour are only doing it to get more votes, and nothing to do with any bullshit reasons they will give for lowering the age
A person under 21 who is in work, should be allowed to vote, but only after they have been in work for say 12 months. By then they would have gained experience of wages, taxes, bills etc, and therefore earned their right to vote.
So I would be ok with working 17 year olds getting the vote, but not ok with 20 year old students to getting it
-- Edited by Red Okktober on Thursday 17th of July 2025 01:05:16 PM
I'm glad you have edited out the "purple haired non binary" stereotype regarding students as that is of course the minority of young people , not the norm. Of course the folk who are non binary should also be permitted to vote, that goes without saying.
I'm surprised you don't think 16 year olds don't know about the world of work whilst continuing their studies. I worked in Comet on the weekends and continued my A Levels and many of my peers did the same. The BIB stating young people need to have experience of work, wages, taxes before they are allowed to vote (which many do!) is an interesting mentality as it suggests you believe people need to have worked in order to have the right to vote.Would you deny the right to vote to adults who have never worked?
Your belief that experience of the world of work is essential in order to have the right to vote has wider implications. Would you deny adults the vote if they had an illness that prevents them working? After all they know nothing about wages and tax. Or just healthy people who have for whatever reason remained unemployed?
I have to admit I do think 16 year old's should be permitted to vote since they are allowed and encouraged to enlist in the Armed Forces at 16. It's noteworthy (to me at least!) that the UK is unlike Europe and is the only country which routinely recruits people under the age of 18.
If the UK government has deemed those aged 16 old enough to join the military and raise children then yes I think they should have the vote. In fairness those pursuing academic studies doing A Level politics, law etc will certainly have sufficient knowledge of the world and Westminster to vote.
If the bill is passed only those who care enough to vote will bother to vote (as it is with adults) and if they care about politics they will have acquired knowledge. Many I fear will squander the vote, especially young men who are apparently the most depressed they have been for generations. Sadly they may regard this opportunity with apathy and nothing more.I sincerely hope not as in in only two years what is decided in parliament will apply to them and therefore they deserve to have a say.
-- Edited by Fluffy on Friday 18th of July 2025 10:40:11 AM
Fluffy said
Jul 18 11:27 AM, 2025
Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:
Well, if this is the case then we can hope to see 16 year olds driving, drinking, and getting tried as adults by our courts. Imagine the fucking carnage.
We allow 16 year olds to drive (15 in some cases), but you have to be 21 to drink.
What constitutes an adult is the most confusing set of laws in the world.
Depends if you want sex, seeing naked people, handguns, long guns, voting, contracts, drinking, fighting in war, or driving.
No one can vote for a federal office until 18.
But they have tried letting 16 year olds vote in local elections..
I agree, the laws regarding what constitutes an adult make no sense! I don't understand why American law make people wait until they are 21 to drink yet they can drive at 16?? Being in charge of a car may come easily after years of practice but young men often get into scrapes (some with more repercussions than other's) . I think America should allow people to drink when they are an adult, and possibly consider putting driving back a year.
In the UK you can join the military at 16, which I personally think is too young and would be preferable at 18 when young people hopefully have more clarity of what they're getting into. In some European countries it is permitted a year or so later. If the UK let's 16 yo's participate in armed combat and die for their country I think that's way too young. I don't know what the law requires in America.
The gun laws baffle me as I believe you can own one type of gun at 18 and another at 21. I would be interested to hear your views on gun ownership but it's cool if you would rather keep it to yourself as it's a bit off topic. It merits an entire thread to itself.
Digger said
Jul 18 11:33 AM, 2025
Fluffy wrote:
Red Okktober wrote:
I believe that anyone who is still in education shouldn't be allowed to vote until they are 21, due to all the lefty wokeness that is rife in schools and unis, which will surely influence student voters.
You can be sure Labour are only doing it to get more votes, and nothing to do with any bullshit reasons they will give for lowering the age
A person under 21 who is in work, should be allowed to vote, but only after they have been in work for say 12 months. By then they would have gained experience of wages, taxes, bills etc, and therefore earned their right to vote.
So I would be ok with working 17 year olds getting the vote, but not ok with 20 year old students to getting it
-- Edited by Red Okktober on Thursday 17th of July 2025 01:05:16 PM
I'm glad you have edited out the "purple haired non binary" stereotype regarding students as that is of course the minority of young people , not the norm. Of course the folk who are non binary should also be permitted to vote, that goes without saying.
I'm surprised you don't think 16 year olds don't know about the world of work whilst continuing their studies. I worked in Comet on the weekends and continued my A Levels and many of my peers did the same. The BIB stating young people need to have experience of work, wages, taxes before they are allowed to vote (which many do!) is an interesting mentality as it suggests you believe people need to have worked in order to have the right to vote.Would you deny the right to vote to adults who have never worked?
Your belief that experience of the world of work is essential in order to have the right to vote has wider implications. Would you deny adults the vote if they had an illness that prevents them working? After all they know nothing about wages and tax. Or just healthy people who have for whatever reason remained unemployed?
I have to admit I do think 16 year old's should be permitted to vote since they are allowed and encouraged to enlist in the Armed Forces at 16. It's noteworthy (to me at least!) that the UK is unlike Europe and is the only country which routinely recruits people under the age of 18.
If the UK government has deemed those aged 16 old enough to join the military and raise children then yes I think they should have the vote. In fairness those pursuing academic studies doing A Level politics, law etc will certainly have sufficient knowledge of the world and Westminster to vote.
If the bill is passed only those who care enough to vote will bother to vote (as it is with adults) and if they care about politics they will have acquired knowledge. Many I fear will squander the vote, especially young men who are apparently the most depressed they have been for generations. Sadly they may regard this opportunity with apathy and nothing more.I sincerely hope not as in in only two years what is decided in parliament will apply to them and therefore they deserve to have a say.
-- Edited by Fluffy on Friday 18th of July 2025 10:40:11 AM
Shamima Begum at 16 - she didn’t know what she was doing! She was just a kid! She can’t be held responsible! blah blah blah
Well, if this is the case then we can hope to see 16 year olds driving, drinking, and getting tried as adults by our courts. Imagine the fucking carnage.
We allow 16 year olds to drive (15 in some cases), but you have to be 21 to drink.
What constitutes an adult is the most confusing set of laws in the world.
Depends if you want sex, seeing naked people, handguns, long guns, voting, contracts, drinking, fighting in war, or driving.
No one can vote for a federal office until 18.
But they have tried letting 16 year olds vote in local elections..
I agree, the laws regarding what constitutes an adult make no sense! I don't understand why American law make people wait until they are 21 to drink yet they can drive at 16?? Being in charge of a car may come easily after years of practice but young men often get into scrapes (some with more repercussions than other's) . I think America should allow people to drink when they are an adult, and possibly consider putting driving back a year.
In the UK you can join the military at 16, which I personally think is too young and would be preferable at 18 when young people hopefully have more clarity of what they're getting into. In some European countries it is permitted a year or so later. If the UK let's 16 yo's participate in armed combat and die for their country I think that's way too young. I don't know what the law requires in America.
The gun laws baffle me as I believe you can own one type of gun at 18 and another at 21. I would be interested to hear your views on gun ownership but it's cool if you would rather keep it to yourself as it's a bit off topic. It merits an entire thread to itself.
How can you state that someone shouldn't join the army at 16 because they are not mentally astute enough to have clarity but then say they have enough mental clarity to vote? Besides which you can't be deployed in combat until 18.
Digger said
Jul 18 12:17 PM, 2025
There's a lot of teenagers who have their heads screwed on, but a whole lot more who don't.
Teenagers are highly influenced by their peers and social groups, and the desire to fit in can lead them to adopt behaviours they see others exhibiting, they are very prone to the hive mind.
The adolescent brain is still developing, particularly the areas related to emotional regulation and decision making. This can make teenagers more impulsive and prone to reacting emotionally rather than rationally and that's not good when it comes to responsibility.
There was a reason society restricted what they could and couldn't do. I still think under 18s should not drink, smoke, vape, drive or vote. In fact, if is was up to me I'd raise the age to 21.
Syl said
Jul 18 12:38 PM, 2025
The vast majority of youngsters are still in education till they are 18, then if they are off to UNI, it could be early/middle 20's before they get a full time paid job and learn how to manage, both financially and independently.
I think 18 is about right....people learn an awful lot between the ages of 16 and 18...even if the majority are still living at home and are cushioned from the harsh realities of life.
I think the US law of allowing kids to drive at 16 is crazy.
Red Okktober said
Jul 18 1:49 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
The vast majority of youngsters are still in education till they are 18, then if they are off to UNI, it could be early/middle 20's before they get a full time paid job and learn how to manage, both financially and independently.
I think 18 is about right....people learn an awful lot between the ages of 16 and 18...even if the majority are still living at home and are cushioned from the harsh realities of life.
I think the US law of allowing kids to drive at 16 is crazy.
My idea is that anyone under 21 who is still in education shouldn't be allowed to vote, due to all the nonsense that is fife on uni campuses, and the heavy influence of left wing/liberal lecturers.
The 21 minimum age could also apply to the sick and jobless, as they can't be denied the right to vote indefinitely.
But anyone under 21 with 12 months work under their belts (so aged 17 at the earliest) should be allowed to vote due to them being more worldly, and entitled to have a say in matters that effect them as working people. Imo a 17 year old who has secured a job should have more of a say in how the countrty is run than a 17 year old who spends all day on his arse on the PlayStation drinking cider. But at 21, we have to let them all vote regardless.
"Eight in ten university lecturers are “Left-wing”, a survey has found as it warns of the dangers of “group think” in British institutions."
Never mind, they can always read the Telegraph and watch GB News after lectures.
Barksdale said
Jul 18 3:09 PM, 2025
I was all in favour of lowering the voting age until I became a father. I remember what the kids at my eldest's school were like at 16 and while many of them were great kids, they were mostly clueless about the world. They have a theoretical understanding but lack the real world experience to inform sound judgment.
If anything we should raise the voting age to 25 which is generally when the pre-frontal cortex has fully developed in young adults.
Magica said
Jul 18 3:09 PM, 2025
Syl wrote:
The vast majority of youngsters are still in education till they are 18, then if they are off to UNI, it could be early/middle 20's before they get a full time paid job and learn how to manage, both financially and independently.
I think 18 is about right....people learn an awful lot between the ages of 16 and 18...even if the majority are still living at home and are cushioned from the harsh realities of life.
I think the US law of allowing kids to drive at 16 is crazy.
My thoughts too.
As I said before, if they are adult enough to vote, then they can go to.men's prisons when breaking the law!
Stammer thinks they will all vote for him. Unless they're Muslims I doubt it very.much. I spoke to a couple youngsters they hate Stammer and Liebour.
By next Election, 16 yr old can vote.
How will they be grown up to know who to vote for.
If they can vote are they grown up enough to go in pubs and drink alcohol?I
They are known as kids. Now if the can vote, they can go to prison for offences too.
Me neither. Still at school!
I think if the age of consent is 16 then they they should be permitted to vote at the same age.. But the laws in this country make no sense logically anyway imo ..you can raise a child at 16 but not have a glass of wine ??
Taking care of a baby at such a young age must be so difficult as they may love the baby so much but lack the emotional maturity to handle the challenge it brings. It's kids raising kids. That being said, the age of consent is younger in other countries.
I don't necessarily agree that they won't know who to vote for, this youngest generation are the most politically and socially aware. Girls of that age are also more likely to vote for left leaning parties.
So if Labour have introduced this initiative then I don't think it would be too cynical to suggest it's been done as an easy way to obtain more votes.
I believe that anyone who is still in education shouldn't be allowed to vote until they are 21, due to all the lefty wokeness that is rife in schools and unis, which will surely influence student voters.
You can be sure Labour are only doing it to get more votes, and nothing to do with any bullshit reasons they will give for lowering the age
A person under 21 who is in work, should be allowed to vote, but only after they have been in work for say 12 months. By then they would have gained experience of wages, taxes, bills etc, and therefore earned their right to vote.
So I would be ok with working 17 year olds getting the vote, but not ok with 20 year old students to getting it
-- Edited by Red Okktober on Thursday 17th of July 2025 01:05:16 PM
My initial reaction was to imagine it might be a good thing, if only to encourage youngsters to engage more in politics and become more focused on what’s happening in the world around them. The real world, not the one on their phone screens.
But your take makes much more sense. Practical experience and life’s lessons would probably make them more grounded, rather than making choices based on shite they’re seeing on TikTok and the like.
Of course it has Fluffs. Thing is, most kids follow their parents thinking and I can't see anyone voting Labour unless they're immigrants tbh.
Well, if this is the case then we can hope to see 16 year olds driving, drinking, and getting tried as adults by our courts. Imagine the fucking carnage.
We allow 16 year olds to drive (15 in some cases), but you have to be 21 to drink.
What constitutes an adult is the most confusing set of laws in the world.
Depends if you want sex, seeing naked people, handguns, long guns, voting, contracts, drinking, fighting in war, or driving.
No one can vote for a federal office until 18.
But they have tried letting 16 year olds vote in local elections..
Working for 12 months plus would also instill responsibilities like getting to work on time and being answerable to your boss etc, and I think that is deserving of being able to vote for things that could affect your life as a working person.
Whereas some purple haired non-binary oddball on campus, whose life revolves around cancel culture and finding offence in everything, hasn't earned that same right imo, even though they may be older.
Just wishful thinking though, as having a staggered age voting system will never happen.
I'm glad you have edited out the "purple haired non binary" stereotype regarding students as that is of course the minority of young people , not the norm. Of course the folk who are non binary should also be permitted to vote, that goes without saying.
I'm surprised you don't think 16 year olds don't know about the world of work whilst continuing their studies. I worked in Comet on the weekends and continued my A Levels and many of my peers did the same. The BIB stating young people need to have experience of work, wages, taxes before they are allowed to vote (which many do!) is an interesting mentality as it suggests you believe people need to have worked in order to have the right to vote.Would you deny the right to vote to adults who have never worked?
Your belief that experience of the world of work is essential in order to have the right to vote has wider implications. Would you deny adults the vote if they had an illness that prevents them working? After all they know nothing about wages and tax. Or just healthy people who have for whatever reason remained unemployed?
I have to admit I do think 16 year old's should be permitted to vote since they are allowed and encouraged to enlist in the Armed Forces at 16. It's noteworthy (to me at least!) that the UK is unlike Europe and is the only country which routinely recruits people under the age of 18.
If the UK government has deemed those aged 16 old enough to join the military and raise children then yes I think they should have the vote. In fairness those pursuing academic studies doing A Level politics, law etc will certainly have sufficient knowledge of the world and Westminster to vote.
If the bill is passed only those who care enough to vote will bother to vote (as it is with adults) and if they care about politics they will have acquired knowledge. Many I fear will squander the vote, especially young men who are apparently the most depressed they have been for generations. Sadly they may regard this opportunity with apathy and nothing more.I sincerely hope not as in in only two years what is decided in parliament will apply to them and therefore they deserve to have a say.
-- Edited by Fluffy on Friday 18th of July 2025 10:40:11 AM
I agree, the laws regarding what constitutes an adult make no sense! I don't understand why American law make people wait until they are 21 to drink yet they can drive at 16??
Being in charge of a car may come easily after years of practice but young men often get into scrapes (some with more repercussions than other's) . I think America should allow people to drink when they are an adult, and possibly consider putting driving back a year.
In the UK you can join the military at 16, which I personally think is too young and would be preferable at 18 when young people hopefully have more clarity of what they're getting into. In some European countries it is permitted a year or so later. If the UK let's 16 yo's participate in armed combat and die for their country I think that's way too young. I don't know what the law requires in America.
The gun laws baffle me as I believe you can own one type of gun at 18 and another at 21. I would be interested to hear your views on gun ownership but it's cool if you would rather keep it to yourself as it's a bit off topic. It merits an entire thread to itself.
Shamima Begum at 16 - she didn’t know what she was doing! She was just a kid! She can’t be held responsible! blah blah blah
How can you state that someone shouldn't join the army at 16 because they are not mentally astute enough to have clarity but then say they have enough mental clarity to vote? Besides which you can't be deployed in combat until 18.
There's a lot of teenagers who have their heads screwed on, but a whole lot more who don't.
Teenagers are highly influenced by their peers and social groups, and the desire to fit in can lead them to adopt behaviours they see others exhibiting, they are very prone to the hive mind.
The adolescent brain is still developing, particularly the areas related to emotional regulation and decision making. This can make teenagers more impulsive and prone to reacting emotionally rather than rationally and that's not good when it comes to responsibility.
There was a reason society restricted what they could and couldn't do. I still think under 18s should not drink, smoke, vape, drive or vote. In fact, if is was up to me I'd raise the age to 21.
The vast majority of youngsters are still in education till they are 18, then if they are off to UNI, it could be early/middle 20's before they get a full time paid job and learn how to manage, both financially and independently.
I think 18 is about right....people learn an awful lot between the ages of 16 and 18...even if the majority are still living at home and are cushioned from the harsh realities of life.
I think the US law of allowing kids to drive at 16 is crazy.
My idea is that anyone under 21 who is still in education shouldn't be allowed to vote, due to all the nonsense that is fife on uni campuses, and the heavy influence of left wing/liberal lecturers.
The 21 minimum age could also apply to the sick and jobless, as they can't be denied the right to vote indefinitely.
But anyone under 21 with 12 months work under their belts (so aged 17 at the earliest) should be allowed to vote due to them being more worldly, and entitled to have a say in matters that effect them as working people. Imo a 17 year old who has secured a job should have more of a say in how the countrty is run than a 17 year old who spends all day on his arse on the PlayStation drinking cider. But at 21, we have to let them all vote regardless.
"Eight in ten university lecturers are “Left-wing”, a survey has found as it warns of the dangers of “group think” in British institutions."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/03/02/eight-ten-british-university-lecturers-left-wing-survey-finds/
Never mind, they can always read the Telegraph and watch GB News after lectures.
I was all in favour of lowering the voting age until I became a father. I remember what the kids at my eldest's school were like at 16 and while many of them were great kids, they were mostly clueless about the world. They have a theoretical understanding but lack the real world experience to inform sound judgment.
If anything we should raise the voting age to 25 which is generally when the pre-frontal cortex has fully developed in young adults.
My thoughts too.
As I said before, if they are adult enough to vote, then they can go to.men's prisons when breaking the law!
Stammer thinks they will all vote for him. Unless they're Muslims I doubt it very.much. I spoke to a couple youngsters they hate Stammer and Liebour.