ChaoticMusings

Digger · Admin

'Womb raider' killer Lisa Montgomery is executed - the first female federal prisoner for 67 years

Digger · Admin

Monstrous crimes demand severe penalties.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Horrific, but if she really was mentally ill should she have been executed?

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Horrific, but if she really was mentally ill should she have been executed?

She was crazy. She didn't even know what was going on. If you have mental issues going into prison, you will be bat shit crazy after years of being locked away by yourself in a mental ward.

There appears to be no doubt that she did this, and she appears to not even know she was being put to death, so in a weird way it's sort of a mercy killing. Although philosophically I'm opposed to the death penalty because I don't trust the system enough to get the right person every time.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

I am in favour of the death penalty for the most heinous of crimes, and this one certainly was.
But if she really was insane she should have been commited in a mental institution for life, not waiting to die on death row.

Digger · Admin

Syl wrote:
I am in favour of the death penalty for the most heinous of crimes, and this one certainly was.
But if she really was insane she should have been commited in a mental institution for life, not waiting to die on death row.

Montgomery said she was attracted to the S&M scene and that she "liked taking the whip"???

I can't imagine what her life must have been like but I still hold that we all have choices, and cutting open a living woman, ripping her child from the womb and stealing it is too Hills Have Eyes for me to think she didn't know what she was doing. I think she did. Apparently, the poor woman became conscious as she was being cut open and tried to fight. It's like something out of a fucking horror film. That's just pure evil. It's too ghoulish to even contemplate that a human being could do that to another. I don't feel sorry she's dead because that family needed closure, and if she was capable of that, what else was she capable of.

Digger · Admin

Syl wrote:
I am in favour of the death penalty for the most heinous of crimes, and this one certainly was.
But if she really was insane she should have been commited in a mental institution for life, not waiting to die on death row.

I don't think she was insane. I think she was so immured to pain and had suffered so much herself that she didn't consider what she was doing in terms of compassion or empathy, and that makes her a psycho, not insane.

Maddog · Go Outside

Digger wrote:
Syl wrote:
I am in favour of the death penalty for the most heinous of crimes, and this one certainly was.
But if she really was insane she should have been commited in a mental institution for life, not waiting to die on death row.
I don't think she was insane. I think she was so immured to pain and had suffered so much herself that she didn't consider what she was doing in terms of compassion or empathy, and that makes her a psycho, not insane.

She was in the mental ward for years while in prison. Takes more than being a psycho to get put there. Not enough beds of all the psychos.

John Doe · Still Here!

It was a truly horrific crime (to say the least) but I do think she was clinically insane.

Digger · Admin

John Doe wrote:
It was a truly horrific crime (to say the least) but I do think she was clinically insane.

The defence tried to say she was insane...so that she had no responsibility.

Insanity s a legal term pertaining to a defendant's ability to determine right from wrong when a crime is committed. Here's the first sentence of law.com's lengthy definition:

Insanity. n. mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behaviour.

I believe she knew exactly what she was doing. She planned it. It seems insane to the sane though.

This from the police officer who first attended the scene.

Nodaway County Sheriff Randy Strong says that the scene that he and his four colleagues found that day was so bloody, they are still traumatised by it. It makes him even angrier that it was Stinnett's mother who discovered her that way.

"The people that are defending [Montgomery], I wish I could take them back in time, and put them in that room," he says. "And then go, 'Look at this body'. And then go, 'Stand there and listen to the 911 call of [Stinnett's mother]. This is the stuff of nightmares."

Many of the residents of Skidmore cite the details of the crime, and the amount of planning that went into it, as evidence that Montgomery was a calculating killer.

She had catfished Stinnett online under a fake name. She had bought supplies, including a home birth kit, and searched online for how to perform a caesarean section. Sheriff Strong insists that the crime was meticulously planned and that the woman he arrested continued to lie until backed into a corner.

Digger · Admin

Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:
Syl wrote:
I am in favour of the death penalty for the most heinous of crimes, and this one certainly was.
But if she really was insane she should have been commited in a mental institution for life, not waiting to die on death row.
I don't think she was insane. I think she was so immured to pain and had suffered so much herself that she didn't consider what she was doing in terms of compassion or empathy, and that makes her a psycho, not insane.
She was in the mental ward for years while in prison. Takes more than being a psycho to get put there. Not enough beds of all the psychos.

I should think she was after what she did. Where else would they put her?

Maddog · Go Outside

Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:
Syl wrote:
I am in favour of the death penalty for the most heinous of crimes, and this one certainly was.
But if she really was insane she should have been commited in a mental institution for life, not waiting to die on death row.
I don't think she was insane. I think she was so immured to pain and had suffered so much herself that she didn't consider what she was doing in terms of compassion or empathy, and that makes her a psycho, not insane.
She was in the mental ward for years while in prison. Takes more than being a psycho to get put there. Not enough beds of all the psychos.
I should think she was after what she did. Where else would they put her?

In general population with all of the other psychos that murder people.

Although I don't think people on death row are ever in general population. They are segregated into a special area for those awaiting execution. Death row for federal prisoners is in Indiana where she was killed. The mentally ill are kept in Texas. Apparently she was too messed up for death row and spent years in Texas.

Digger · Admin

Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:
Syl wrote:
I am in favour of the death penalty for the most heinous of crimes, and this one certainly was.
But if she really was insane she should have been commited in a mental institution for life, not waiting to die on death row.
I don't think she was insane. I think she was so immured to pain and had suffered so much herself that she didn't consider what she was doing in terms of compassion or empathy, and that makes her a psycho, not insane.
She was in the mental ward for years while in prison. Takes more than being a psycho to get put there. Not enough beds of all the psychos.
I should think she was after what she did. Where else would they put her?
In general population with all of the other psychos that murder people.

Although I don't think people on death row are ever in general population. They are segregated into a special area for those awaiting execution. Death row for federal prisoners is in Indiana where she was killed. The mentally ill are kept in Texas. Apparently she was too messed up for death row and spent years in Texas.

The world can be a really shitty place.

Date: Jan 14 2:56 PM, 2021

At the end of the day what has been achieved by executing her? It's not as if it's made the world a safer place.

Digger · Admin

Anonymous wrote:
At the end of the day what has been achieved by executing her? It's not as if it's made the world a safer place.

Given the family of the victim closure. People forget about the victim's families when all they focus on is the perps rights.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

My opinion is ... if someone has committed the most heinous acts and been found guilty without any shadow of doubt, I am thinking of the likes of the moors murders, Fred and Rose West, terrorists who kill and maim innocents, child rapists and murderers, for eg, when the perpetrators are evil not mad....get rid. That would help the families of the victims and give closure.

The families of the victims of Hindley and Brady were taunted for decades every time someone sold a story, or some do-gooder pleaded for their release, or Brady refused food, or Hindley wrote a letter...on and on it went till they both died.

Who cares if (like some say) it's a quick and easy way out for no hope for freedom lifers....their opinions or feelings simply don't matter, they gave up their rights when they committed their crimes.
That's when victims families feelings should come first.

Date: Jan 14 6:19 PM, 2021

Digger wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
At the end of the day what has been achieved by executing her? It's not as if it's made the world a safer place.
Given the family of the victim closure. People forget about the victim's families when all they focus on is the perps rights.

You say 'closure' but closure in what sense? It hasn't undone what was done. Do you mean a final act of revenge?

Magica · Go Outside

I don't believe in the death penalty. There was a man on death row who had escaped it twice because of appeals, has now been exonerated! This has happened quite a few times.

Also it doesn't stop crime, otherwise there wouldn't be anybody on death row or spending life in prison.

In America, life is life, no parole. Now that sits better with me and I wish we had this here. That's punishment enough.

Digger · Admin

Anonymous wrote:
Digger wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
At the end of the day what has been achieved by executing her? It's not as if it's made the world a safer place.
Given the family of the victim closure. People forget about the victim's families when all they focus on is the perps rights.
You say 'closure' but closure in what sense? It hasn't undone what was done. Do you mean a final act of revenge?

That's what they've stated. Their words, not mine. Some people can forgive losing a child like that...could you? I'm not particularly in favour of the death penalty. However, incarceration for life? Perhaps it's the better punishment...to force someone to live with what they've done. Ian Brady wanted to die badly but they wouldn't let him. And rightly so...because of what he did he should suffer for as long as possible. Killing someone quickly, or making them suffer for decades? Or perhaps it's OK for Rose West to live in comfort in our UK prison, making friends, having lovers, reading, writing doing whatever the fuck that twisted monster does behind bars. She gets fed. She's safe. Warm. Comfortable. She murdered kids. Sexually interfered with her children. Let's be kind to her. She was another one with a troubled abusive childhood. Don't seem to see anyone feeling sorry for her. I wouldn't care if she swung. She opted out of the human race the day she killed.

Revenge to see the killer of your child die? I think it's more complex than that. Look what sparing the lives of Thompson and Venables has done to Denise Bulger. Screwed her up forever. It's my bet she'd have quite happily seen that pair go to execution.

Nope, executing murderers won't bring back their victims. But neither will putting them behind bars. Nothing does, ever.