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ChaoticMusings -> The Whine Cellar -> will the wife accused of pointing out the 14-year-old black teen to a Mississippi lynch mob now face justice 67 years on
Post Info TOPIC: will the wife accused of pointing out the 14-year-old black teen to a Mississippi lynch mob now face justice 67 years on
Digger


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will the wife accused of pointing out the 14-year-old black teen to a Mississippi lynch mob now face justice 67 years on
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They came for Emmett Till in the dead of night, shining a torch in the terrified 14-year-old’s face as they dragged him out of bed at gunpoint in the cramped two-room cabin where he was staying with his great uncle and seven other relatives.

Ignoring his family’s desperate pleas that he was from the North and hadn’t known any better, his captors drove him off to be lynched — the fate reserved for the black people who dared violate the brutal social codes of segregation-era Mississippi, America’s most racist state.

Emmett’s offence that summer of 1955, say witnesses, had simply been to whistle at a white woman, although she’d later claim he’d made unwanted advances and ‘ugly remarks’.

The next time his family saw Emmett, he had been tortured, shot in the head and dumped naked in a river with a weight tied around his neck with barbed wire — his face so mutilated and crushed they couldn’t recognise him.

Emmett’s gruesome murder shocked the world — although not, to its shame, the Deep South — and did much to ignite the civil rights movement.

Horror turned to stunned disbelief when his two killers were not only acquitted of the crime by an all-white male jury but then, earning a packet for their story, admitted they’d done it.

Despite witness claims that at least one other person was with them, they made out that they acted alone.

No one has ever been convicted of killing Emmett and, until a few days ago, that tragic injustice looked set to remain the case for ever.

Now, however, investigators sifting through records in the basement of a Mississippi courthouse have unearthed an unserved warrant for the arrest of a third suspect — the woman who had accused Emmett of harassing her — for her involvement in his kidnapping.

That woman, Carolyn Bryant Donham, is still alive and Emmett’s relatives, who were involved in discovering the document, have demanded that the case be reopened and Ms Donham arrested. ‘Justice has to be served,’ said Deborah Watts, Emmett’s cousin.

Now in her 80s and reportedly living in North Carolina, Ms Donham has yet to comment — a silence she’s largely maintained for decades.

‘She has been evading justice for over 66 years now,’ said Keith Beauchamp, a filmmaker who helped to find the document. ‘The only reason why Carolyn Bryant was never given that warrant was because of the protection of white womanhood.’



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Digger


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One can only imagine what it must have been like, or perhaps still is, to live as a black person in the midst of that kind of racial hatred.



-- Edited by Digger on Saturday 2nd of July 2022 10:43:52 AM

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Vita


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Hard to imagine a more barbaric murder.

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Reading stories like this, it's not hard to understand why some black people hate whites in today's world.

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Maddog


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RE: will the wife accused of pointing out the 14-year-old black teen to a Mississippi lynch mob now face justice 67 year
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Digger wrote:

They came for Emmett Till in the dead of night, shining a torch in the terrified 14-year-old’s face as they dragged him out of bed at gunpoint in the cramped two-room cabin where he was staying with his great uncle and seven other relatives.

Ignoring his family’s desperate pleas that he was from the North and hadn’t known any better, his captors drove him off to be lynched — the fate reserved for the black people who dared violate the brutal social codes of segregation-era Mississippi, America’s most racist state.

Emmett’s offence that summer of 1955, say witnesses, had simply been to whistle at a white woman, although she’d later claim he’d made unwanted advances and ‘ugly remarks’.

The next time his family saw Emmett, he had been tortured, shot in the head and dumped naked in a river with a weight tied around his neck with barbed wire — his face so mutilated and crushed they couldn’t recognise him.

Emmett’s gruesome murder shocked the world — although not, to its shame, the Deep South — and did much to ignite the civil rights movement.

Horror turned to stunned disbelief when his two killers were not only acquitted of the crime by an all-white male jury but then, earning a packet for their story, admitted they’d done it.

Despite witness claims that at least one other person was with them, they made out that they acted alone.

No one has ever been convicted of killing Emmett and, until a few days ago, that tragic injustice looked set to remain the case for ever.

Now, however, investigators sifting through records in the basement of a Mississippi courthouse have unearthed an unserved warrant for the arrest of a third suspect — the woman who had accused Emmett of harassing her — for her involvement in his kidnapping.

That woman, Carolyn Bryant Donham, is still alive and Emmett’s relatives, who were involved in discovering the document, have demanded that the case be reopened and Ms Donham arrested. ‘Justice has to be served,’ said Deborah Watts, Emmett’s cousin.

Now in her 80s and reportedly living in North Carolina, Ms Donham has yet to comment — a silence she’s largely maintained for decades.

‘She has been evading justice for over 66 years now,’ said Keith Beauchamp, a filmmaker who helped to find the document. ‘The only reason why Carolyn Bryant was never given that warrant was because of the protection of white womanhood.’

59768337-0-image-a-20_1656705078691.jpg

 Doubtful. No one is alive but her. You could arrest her based on a nearly 70 year old charge, but a conviction would be impossible.

 

She was a 14 year old female child in not only a racist time period and area, but a patriarchal one too.

 

I have no doubt she lied about Emmitt. Or at least stretched the truth. But she likely was also being told what to say and was powerless to challenge the folks doing it.

 

A 14 year old girl in the 50's said exactly what she was told to, by adult males. They could have ruined her in a small town, in that time frame..

 

I think this case is done/over legally, and probably should be. It's now just another good reminder of how horrific our history can be..



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Maddog


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Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:

They came for Emmett Till in the dead of night, shining a torch in the terrified 14-year-old’s face as they dragged him out of bed at gunpoint in the cramped two-room cabin where he was staying with his great uncle and seven other relatives.

Ignoring his family’s desperate pleas that he was from the North and hadn’t known any better, his captors drove him off to be lynched — the fate reserved for the black people who dared violate the brutal social codes of segregation-era Mississippi, America’s most racist state.

Emmett’s offence that summer of 1955, say witnesses, had simply been to whistle at a white woman, although she’d later claim he’d made unwanted advances and ‘ugly remarks’.

The next time his family saw Emmett, he had been tortured, shot in the head and dumped naked in a river with a weight tied around his neck with barbed wire — his face so mutilated and crushed they couldn’t recognise him.

Emmett’s gruesome murder shocked the world — although not, to its shame, the Deep South — and did much to ignite the civil rights movement.

Horror turned to stunned disbelief when his two killers were not only acquitted of the crime by an all-white male jury but then, earning a packet for their story, admitted they’d done it.

Despite witness claims that at least one other person was with them, they made out that they acted alone.

No one has ever been convicted of killing Emmett and, until a few days ago, that tragic injustice looked set to remain the case for ever.

Now, however, investigators sifting through records in the basement of a Mississippi courthouse have unearthed an unserved warrant for the arrest of a third suspect — the woman who had accused Emmett of harassing her — for her involvement in his kidnapping.

That woman, Carolyn Bryant Donham, is still alive and Emmett’s relatives, who were involved in discovering the document, have demanded that the case be reopened and Ms Donham arrested. ‘Justice has to be served,’ said Deborah Watts, Emmett’s cousin.

Now in her 80s and reportedly living in North Carolina, Ms Donham has yet to comment — a silence she’s largely maintained for decades.

‘She has been evading justice for over 66 years now,’ said Keith Beauchamp, a filmmaker who helped to find the document. ‘The only reason why Carolyn Bryant was never given that warrant was because of the protection of white womanhood.’

59768337-0-image-a-20_1656705078691.jpg

 Doubtful. No one is alive but her. You could arrest her based on a nearly 70 year old charge, but a conviction would be impossible.

 

She was a 14 year old female child in not only a racist time period and area, but a patriarchal one too.

 

I have no doubt she lied about Emmitt. Or at least stretched the truth. But she likely was also being told what to say and was powerless to challenge the folks doing it.

 

A 14 year old girl in the 50's said exactly what she was told to, by adult males. They could have ruined her in a small town, in that time frame..

 

I think this case is done/over legally, and probably should be. It's now just another good reminder of how horrific our history can be..

 Well shit, I thought she was 14 too. Guess I should have read up on it better. 

 

She was 21 and married. 

 

Basically the property of her husband though. 



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Magica


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will the wife accused of pointing out the 14-year-old black teen to a Mississippi lynch mob now face justice 67 years on
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I read this story. It's barbaric. This went on so much in the deep South, still issues there today. Disgusting! Poor boy.

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Digger


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RE: will the wife accused of pointing out the 14-year-old black teen to a Mississippi lynch mob now face justice 67 year
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Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:

They came for Emmett Till in the dead of night, shining a torch in the terrified 14-year-old’s face as they dragged him out of bed at gunpoint in the cramped two-room cabin where he was staying with his great uncle and seven other relatives.

Ignoring his family’s desperate pleas that he was from the North and hadn’t known any better, his captors drove him off to be lynched — the fate reserved for the black people who dared violate the brutal social codes of segregation-era Mississippi, America’s most racist state.

Emmett’s offence that summer of 1955, say witnesses, had simply been to whistle at a white woman, although she’d later claim he’d made unwanted advances and ‘ugly remarks’.

The next time his family saw Emmett, he had been tortured, shot in the head and dumped naked in a river with a weight tied around his neck with barbed wire — his face so mutilated and crushed they couldn’t recognise him.

Emmett’s gruesome murder shocked the world — although not, to its shame, the Deep South — and did much to ignite the civil rights movement.

Horror turned to stunned disbelief when his two killers were not only acquitted of the crime by an all-white male jury but then, earning a packet for their story, admitted they’d done it.

Despite witness claims that at least one other person was with them, they made out that they acted alone.

No one has ever been convicted of killing Emmett and, until a few days ago, that tragic injustice looked set to remain the case for ever.

Now, however, investigators sifting through records in the basement of a Mississippi courthouse have unearthed an unserved warrant for the arrest of a third suspect — the woman who had accused Emmett of harassing her — for her involvement in his kidnapping.

That woman, Carolyn Bryant Donham, is still alive and Emmett’s relatives, who were involved in discovering the document, have demanded that the case be reopened and Ms Donham arrested. ‘Justice has to be served,’ said Deborah Watts, Emmett’s cousin.

Now in her 80s and reportedly living in North Carolina, Ms Donham has yet to comment — a silence she’s largely maintained for decades.

‘She has been evading justice for over 66 years now,’ said Keith Beauchamp, a filmmaker who helped to find the document. ‘The only reason why Carolyn Bryant was never given that warrant was because of the protection of white womanhood.’

59768337-0-image-a-20_1656705078691.jpg

 Doubtful. No one is alive but her. You could arrest her based on a nearly 70 year old charge, but a conviction would be impossible.

 

She was a 14 year old female child in not only a racist time period and area, but a patriarchal one too.

 

I have no doubt she lied about Emmitt. Or at least stretched the truth. But she likely was also being told what to say and was powerless to challenge the folks doing it.

 

A 14 year old girl in the 50's said exactly what she was told to, by adult males. They could have ruined her in a small town, in that time frame..

 

I think this case is done/over legally, and probably should be. It's now just another good reminder of how horrific our history can be..

 She wasn't fourteen.  She was a fully grown woman married woman with kids.



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Maddog


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Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:

They came for Emmett Till in the dead of night, shining a torch in the terrified 14-year-old’s face as they dragged him out of bed at gunpoint in the cramped two-room cabin where he was staying with his great uncle and seven other relatives.

Ignoring his family’s desperate pleas that he was from the North and hadn’t known any better, his captors drove him off to be lynched — the fate reserved for the black people who dared violate the brutal social codes of segregation-era Mississippi, America’s most racist state.

Emmett’s offence that summer of 1955, say witnesses, had simply been to whistle at a white woman, although she’d later claim he’d made unwanted advances and ‘ugly remarks’.

The next time his family saw Emmett, he had been tortured, shot in the head and dumped naked in a river with a weight tied around his neck with barbed wire — his face so mutilated and crushed they couldn’t recognise him.

Emmett’s gruesome murder shocked the world — although not, to its shame, the Deep South — and did much to ignite the civil rights movement.

Horror turned to stunned disbelief when his two killers were not only acquitted of the crime by an all-white male jury but then, earning a packet for their story, admitted they’d done it.

Despite witness claims that at least one other person was with them, they made out that they acted alone.

No one has ever been convicted of killing Emmett and, until a few days ago, that tragic injustice looked set to remain the case for ever.

Now, however, investigators sifting through records in the basement of a Mississippi courthouse have unearthed an unserved warrant for the arrest of a third suspect — the woman who had accused Emmett of harassing her — for her involvement in his kidnapping.

That woman, Carolyn Bryant Donham, is still alive and Emmett’s relatives, who were involved in discovering the document, have demanded that the case be reopened and Ms Donham arrested. ‘Justice has to be served,’ said Deborah Watts, Emmett’s cousin.

Now in her 80s and reportedly living in North Carolina, Ms Donham has yet to comment — a silence she’s largely maintained for decades.

‘She has been evading justice for over 66 years now,’ said Keith Beauchamp, a filmmaker who helped to find the document. ‘The only reason why Carolyn Bryant was never given that warrant was because of the protection of white womanhood.’

59768337-0-image-a-20_1656705078691.jpg

 Doubtful. No one is alive but her. You could arrest her based on a nearly 70 year old charge, but a conviction would be impossible.

 

She was a 14 year old female child in not only a racist time period and area, but a patriarchal one too.

 

I have no doubt she lied about Emmitt. Or at least stretched the truth. But she likely was also being told what to say and was powerless to challenge the folks doing it.

 

A 14 year old girl in the 50's said exactly what she was told to, by adult males. They could have ruined her in a small town, in that time frame..

 

I think this case is done/over legally, and probably should be. It's now just another good reminder of how horrific our history can be..

 She wasn't fourteen.  She was a fully grown woman married woman with kids.

 I know. Look at my post after that. 

 

I hadn't read up on the case in a few years and realized I had her age all wrong.  



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Maddog


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will the wife accused of pointing out the 14-year-old black teen to a Mississippi lynch mob now face justice 67 years on
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Don't know how much faith folks put in the SPLC any more, but here is their map outlining where hate groups are located.

It basically mirrors where people are located..


www.splcenter.org/hate-map

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RE: will the wife accused of pointing out the 14-year-old black teen to a Mississippi lynch mob now face justice 67 year
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Digger wrote:

They came for Emmett Till in the dead of night .... said Keith Beauchamp, a filmmaker who helped to find the document. ‘The only reason why Carolyn Bryant was never given that warrant was because of the protection of white womanhood.’

Keith Beauchamp blames white womanhood and who can argue against that?  White womanhood has been found guilty and we need to root this out to help prevent this type of thing ever happening again.

Elsewhere we had a BBC headline demanding "older voices should not be given a platform" because of something a particular person said when being interviewed a year ago in some far away land in the Portuguese language but only publicized recently in the run-up to some fossil fuel powered exclusive racing going on in England (Silverstone).



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will the wife accused of pointing out the 14-year-old black teen to a Mississippi lynch mob now face justice 67 years on
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I sort of touched on that. Women were "protected" back then. They were considered intellectually inferior and treated with paternalism..

I don't know how much she knew about what her husband and the other man were up to. I don't know if she was there when Emmitt was kidnapped.

I don't think these questions will get answered in another trial, unless she's ready to confess. Assuming she knows something that incriminates herself.

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Digger


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RE: will the wife accused of pointing out the 14-year-old black teen to a Mississippi lynch mob now face justice 67 year
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Maddog wrote:

I sort of touched on that. Women were "protected" back then. They were considered intellectually inferior and treated with paternalism..

I don't know how much she knew about what her husband and the other man were up to. I don't know if she was there when Emmitt was kidnapped.

I don't think these questions will get answered in another trial, unless she's ready to confess. Assuming she knows something that incriminates herself.

 I don't think it's relevant whether she was there or not when the boy was murdered.  She was his accuser.   If not for her, he'd probably still be alive.



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Maddog


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Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I sort of touched on that. Women were "protected" back then. They were considered intellectually inferior and treated with paternalism..

I don't know how much she knew about what her husband and the other man were up to. I don't know if she was there when Emmitt was kidnapped.

I don't think these questions will get answered in another trial, unless she's ready to confess. Assuming she knows something that incriminates herself.

 I don't think it's relevant whether she was there or not when the boy was murdered.  She was his accuser.   If not for her, he'd probably still be alive.

 He did whistle. His cousin admitted that. She probably lied about him grabbing her though.

 

But even if all if that happened, the men can't go murdering someone. They are responsible for their actions, not her. 

 

The warrant is based on the fact that some of Tills relatives think she was there when he was kidnapped. 

 

And to be honest, she probably was. That's how Till was identified out of a large group. 

 

But the justice department just concluded another investigation last year. Everyone is dead, and no one can prove she was in that car. Without that, there really isn't much chance of a conviction. 

 

However, this warrant suggests that the police at the time think she was in that car, or at least wanted to talk to her about it..

 

It's more damning information about a horrific crime that should never have happened, but far too little to convict..

 

And as you say, had she just ignored the whistle, none of this would have happened. But that's not how southern society functioned back then. A young black male from some big city up north, comes to a little town whistling at the white married women and he's going to get some push back. 

 

TBH, he may have got the shit beat of him if he was white. But I believe that his color is what enraged those two men to the point  of wanting to brutally murder him. It was sadly a much different time, as evidenced by the two murderers never serving a day for what they did. Their peers were OK with what they did. 

 



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Without reading beyond what is contained in this thread about the issue, it seems to me that it was recognized as a crime, worthy of investigation, arrests and trial - that is the police and judicial system in 1955 within Mississippi was in order.  What failed in terms of getting a conviction was failure of the people in the system - either the jury itself or a combination of jury, police and judge or maybe no-one was willing to testify against the suspects (equivalent to the mafia code of omerto).  However, that he was taken from his place of dwelling in front of his relatives would indicate there was plenty of eye witness accounts of who took him. 

 

Note that Harper Lee's novel To Kill a Mockingbird was published in 1960 and many have commented on likely biographical sources that inspired the description of Atticus, the accused, the accuser, the trial and the conviction.



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Digger


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Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I sort of touched on that. Women were "protected" back then. They were considered intellectually inferior and treated with paternalism..

I don't know how much she knew about what her husband and the other man were up to. I don't know if she was there when Emmitt was kidnapped.

I don't think these questions will get answered in another trial, unless she's ready to confess. Assuming she knows something that incriminates herself.

 I don't think it's relevant whether she was there or not when the boy was murdered.  She was his accuser.   If not for her, he'd probably still be alive.

 He did whistle. His cousin admitted that. She probably lied about him grabbing her though.

 

But even if all if that happened, the men can't go murdering someone. They are responsible for their actions, not her. 

 

The warrant is based on the fact that some of Tills relatives think she was there when he was kidnapped. 

 

And to be honest, she probably was. That's how Till was identified out of a large group. 

 

But the justice department just concluded another investigation last year. Everyone is dead, and no one can prove she was in that car. Without that, there really isn't much chance of a conviction. 

 

However, this warrant suggests that the police at the time think she was in that car, or at least wanted to talk to her about it..

 

It's more damning information about a horrific crime that should never have happened, but far too little to convict..

 

And as you say, had she just ignored the whistle, none of this would have happened. But that's not how southern society functioned back then. A young black male from some big city up north, comes to a little town whistling at the white married women and he's going to get some push back. 

 

TBH, he may have got the shit beat of him if he was white. But I believe that his color is what enraged those two men to the point  of wanting to brutally murder him. It was sadly a much different time, as evidenced by the two murderers never serving a day for what they did. Their peers were OK with what they did. 

 

I think America is one of the most racist places on earth. 

In 1998, James Byrd was chained to a car by three white supremacists and dragged to his death in the streets of Jasper, Texas.   Who the fuck does that to another human being?   

 

And there's worse.  

https://naacp.org/find-resources/history-explained/history-lynching-america

 

 



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Maddog


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Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Digger wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I sort of touched on that. Women were "protected" back then. They were considered intellectually inferior and treated with paternalism..

I don't know how much she knew about what her husband and the other man were up to. I don't know if she was there when Emmitt was kidnapped.

I don't think these questions will get answered in another trial, unless she's ready to confess. Assuming she knows something that incriminates herself.

 I don't think it's relevant whether she was there or not when the boy was murdered.  She was his accuser.   If not for her, he'd probably still be alive.

 He did whistle. His cousin admitted that. She probably lied about him grabbing her though.

 

But even if all if that happened, the men can't go murdering someone. They are responsible for their actions, not her. 

 

The warrant is based on the fact that some of Tills relatives think she was there when he was kidnapped. 

 

And to be honest, she probably was. That's how Till was identified out of a large group. 

 

But the justice department just concluded another investigation last year. Everyone is dead, and no one can prove she was in that car. Without that, there really isn't much chance of a conviction. 

 

However, this warrant suggests that the police at the time think she was in that car, or at least wanted to talk to her about it..

 

It's more damning information about a horrific crime that should never have happened, but far too little to convict..

 

And as you say, had she just ignored the whistle, none of this would have happened. But that's not how southern society functioned back then. A young black male from some big city up north, comes to a little town whistling at the white married women and he's going to get some push back. 

 

TBH, he may have got the shit beat of him if he was white. But I believe that his color is what enraged those two men to the point  of wanting to brutally murder him. It was sadly a much different time, as evidenced by the two murderers never serving a day for what they did. Their peers were OK with what they did. 

 

I think America is one of the most racist places on earth. 

In 1998, James Byrd was chained to a car by three white supremacists and dragged to his death in the streets of Jasper, Texas.   Who the fuck does that to another human being?   

 

And there's worse.  

https://naacp.org/find-resources/history-explained/history-lynching-america

 

 

 Racists.

 

But would the most racist place on earth, kill them back? 

 

That's the difference between 1955 and 1998..

 

One group of men walked, another was put to death for virtually the same crime. 



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Maddog


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Anonymous wrote:

Without reading beyond what is contained in this thread about the issue, it seems to me that it was recognized as a crime, worthy of investigation, arrests and trial - that is the police and judicial system in 1955 within Mississippi was in order.  What failed in terms of getting a conviction was failure of the people in the system - either the jury itself or a combination of jury, police and judge or maybe no-one was willing to testify against the suspects (equivalent to the mafia code of omerto).  However, that he was taken from his place of dwelling in front of his relatives would indicate there was plenty of eye witness accounts of who took him. 

 

Note that Harper Lee's novel To Kill a Mockingbird was published in 1960 and many have commented on likely biographical sources that inspired the description of Atticus, the accused, the accuser, the trial and the conviction.

 It was a crime, it was investigated and the men who killed that boy were found not guilty. 

 

That's a failure of the jury system, especially back then. The law wasn't remotely blind. Jurors saw what they wanted to see. 

 

To Kill a Mockingbird is a good representation of how things were.  Trials weren't fair. Neither was the law. 

 

But in this particular case, based on what I'm reading, she never told her husband about what happened in that store. It caused such a stir that it was the talk of that tiny town within hours. She retreived a handgun from the car aa the boys all ran from the store. From what i have since read, her husband was furious with her for not telling him. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if she got the back of his hand for flirting with Till or some such nonsense.  

 

The people who murdered that boy escaped justice. I don't think she escaped anything. 

 

At most, maybe she committed perjury to save her husband's hide. That's about it..



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