ChaoticMusings

Vam · Getting Gobby

RE: Is Britain broken?

Date: Mar 18 2:35 AM, 2025

We pay far less in benefits than many european countries for example France, Germany and Italy. The majority of right leaning newspapers owned and influenced by very rich white men who don't want to pay more tax have created a benefit culture with disdainful articles about "scroungers." Billionaire businessmen (who may on occasion pay for Mrs Starmers dresses ) push the narrative in the tabloid press that all benefit claimants are living it up with wide screen tele's and trips to Butlin's to anger working taxpayers and to ensure the spotlight is firmly on the poor. That way nobody is reporting that many billionaires pay less tax than their secretaries. A significant amount of ppl on benefit are actually working and their wages are so low they are deemed on the poverty line and receive a miniscule government top up. Targeting ppl on benefit is bad maths anyway, the money clawed back will not solve the problem. If every millionaire paid just 1 pence extra in tax the sum collected would be £2.6 billion.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

One set of scroungers calling out a different set of scroungers.

Red Okktober · Getting Gobby

I've never heard Liz Kendall talk before - she's very shouty and quite annoying.

She's blamed the Tories 8 times in the first 15 minutes - anyone would think this situation never existed under Labour governments. It makes her look weak that she has to continually attack the opposition - just get on with it already!

Date: Mar 18 3:27 PM, 2025

PIP Benefit: "Most crucially, so far, she has confirmed the expectation that eligibility for Personal Independence Payment (Pip) will be narrowed."

The criteria for PIP is difficult to get as it is, denying many genuine ill claimants from either claiming and/or appealing DWP decisions. How much harder do they propose to make it?

A few years ago a friend of mine had to transfer over to PIP after being on DLA, she had both physical and mental health problems and had a GP who fully backed her application for the benefit as did her CPN and various other medical professionals. Stuck in bed most of the time and unable to leave her home when not she had a telephone "medical" assessment with an unknown nurse. This DWP sanctioned "nurse" obviously knew better ...in essence, he felt she was fit for work. The "medical assessment" made by this nurse bore no resemblance to my friend's telephone answers and seemed to totally ignore the medical evidence sent in. Long story short she asked for a reconsideration (after encouragement), went through a hell of a lot of anxiety and evenutally got awarded PIP but not the amount her medical team thought she should have received. She was so scared of taking it further she just accepted what she was awarded.

After seeing the effects of applying for PIP had on my friend I can well appreciate the many who don't apply for help and or are too scared to fight a DWP wrong decision. And the Govt want to make it harder for claimants. Perhaps they hope more will die through starvation by cutting their disability benefits.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

That's the worry, denying people who are genuinely unable to work, and yet allowing so many to abuse the system.
I have heard of a few horror stories where people are expected to work when it's obvious they are physically or mentally unable to do so.

Another major worry, when these people are taken off PIP because in the eyes of the government they are fit enough to work...where are the bloody jobs?

Digger · Admin

Syl wrote:
That's the worry, denying people who are genuinely unable to work, and yet allowing so many to abuse the system.
I have heard of a few horror stories where people are expected to work when it's obvious they are physically or mentally unable to do so.

Another major worry, when these people are taken off PIP because in the eyes of the government they are fit enough to work...where are the bloody jobs?

There was an older woman on Talk TV today who rang in and said that she could not get a job for love nor money because of her age. She's 64. Yet they are now expecting us to work until 67 and some.

Barksdale · Getting Gobby

The way things are going I am not counting on the state pension to contribute towards my retirement, or if it does it will be a nice little bonus.

We are just about broke as a country so more cuts are pretty much guaranteed. Let's see what the Spring statement brings.

Digger · Admin

The benefits system is a fucking mess. We have to look at what's not working, and that's fundamentally that the more you give people benefits the less likely they are to be galvanised to work. Why should they if they can get more in state pay outs than the minimum wage? Juxtoposition this with the fact that it's not that easy to get a job and the ridiculous cost of living, the greed of landlords and councils and the increasingly silly red tape that prohibits people from being enterprising. We have whole high streets closing down because the rents and rates are ruinous. We have no more industry. No factories that the majority of the working class depended on for income. Few apprenticeships where you don't need a degree and can learn on the job.

Who the hell wants to be an employer with all that entails legally? I'm all for protection of employees rights but it's swung so far the other way that I doubt most small business owners can afford to pay statutory maternity leave for 52 weeks and all the other financial obligations that go along with being an employer.

Even those who try to be enterprising and become self employed have more and more obstacles put in their way. Now, if you want to sell outside the UK to Europe you've got fork out thousands to find an EU representative or EU Responsible Person. Businesses need a named point of contact within the EU for product safety. While this sounds like a good idea, it adversely affects small artisan businesses that sell things that are obviously not going to cause harm to anyone. Mrs Bloggs who crochets for a living now can't sell to the EU unless she forks out thousands to prove her toilet roll covers won't kill someone.

We live in a greedy compensation culture too. I am so so glad that I'm out of the working 9 to 5 system.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

We drove through a small town yesterday, it used to be busy and bustling, lots of small family run shops that had been there for decades.
Now row after row of grey shutters on abandoned buildings, I think it's the same on many high streets throughout Britain.

Magica · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
We drove through a small town yesterday, it used to be busy and bustling, lots of small family run shops that had been there for decades.
Now row after row of grey shutters on abandoned buildings, I think it's the same on many high streets throughout Britain.

Yes shops can't afford the taxes put.on businesses. Also people can't afford to shop there. Shame, small business are going under.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
We drove through a small town yesterday, it used to be busy and bustling, lots of small family run shops that had been there for decades.
Now row after row of grey shutters on abandoned buildings, I think it's the same on many high streets throughout Britain.
Yes shops can't afford the taxes put.on businesses. Also people can't afford to shop there. Shame, small business are going under.

Family high street businesses are a thing of the past now. Even the big stores like Boots. M&S, for eg are cutting down, Many. like Woolworths, Wilko, Debenhams etc are long gone too.

Digger · Admin

This from Quinten Letts sums it up.

A Herefordshire friend is a plumber who also keeps livestock. He works six or seven days a week, as does his wife. They have had one holiday in the past three years, a week’s package to Spain.

My friend has a cousin who is a heroin drug addict who is classed as depressed. During the pandemic this cousin received so many food parcels from the authorities that he could not possibly eat all the stuff. He sold much of it on the black market. The cousin receives at least £700 a week in benefits and more is spent on pottery, carpentry and archery courses to lift his spirits.

My friend watches this pampering, this waste, and wonders why he bothers to work so hard. He has another drug-addict neighbour who was given a free television by social services. He sold it to raise money for drugs and then demanded a replacement. They gave him a second TV because ‘we don’t judge’.

Meanwhile, I have another acquaintance who calls himself a ‘resting’ arts administrator. He has worked six months in the past 25 years. He is on pension credits, pays no council tax, has various other perks – a free TV licence, preferential treatment at the dentist, etc – and has just come back from a chi-chi holiday in Italy. How does he vote? Labour, of course. And Labour MPs know there are plenty more like him.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Digger wrote:
This from Quinten Letts sums it up.

A Herefordshire friend is a plumber who also keeps livestock. He works six or seven days a week, as does his wife. They have had one holiday in the past three years, a week’s package to Spain.
My friend has a cousin who is a heroin drug addict who is classed as depressed. During the pandemic this cousin received so many food parcels from the authorities that he could not possibly eat all the stuff. He sold much of it on the black market. The cousin receives at least £700 a week in benefits and more is spent on pottery, carpentry and archery courses to lift his spirits.
My friend watches this pampering, this waste, and wonders why he bothers to work so hard. He has another drug-addict neighbour who was given a free television by social services. He sold it to raise money for drugs and then demanded a replacement. They gave him a second TV because ‘we don’t judge’.
Meanwhile, I have another acquaintance who calls himself a ‘resting’ arts administrator. He has worked six months in the past 25 years. He is on pension credits, pays no council tax, has various other perks – a free TV licence, preferential treatment at the dentist, etc – and has just come back from a chi-chi holiday in Italy. How does he vote? Labour, of course. And Labour MPs know there are plenty more like him.

Millions of hard working people who never claim a penny in benefits don't get anywhere near £700 a week.

Some lazy bastards who are fit and able to work but choose not to, claim Universal credits..(or whatever they call it now) and once they claim that, lots of other help towards normal bills and costs are available. Rent, council tax, food, energy bills, dentistry, a whole new world of freebies is opened up for them.

These people will manage to wrangle round whatever new rules this Labour government bring in. Sadly, the genuine claimants will probably be the ones who will be forced into none existent jobs suitable to their needs.

Digger · Admin

Anonymous wrote:
We pay far less in benefits than many european countries for example France, Germany and Italy. The majority of right leaning newspapers owned and influenced by very rich white men who don't want to pay more tax have created a benefit culture with disdainful articles about "scroungers." Billionaire businessmen (who may on occasion pay for Mrs Starmers dresses ) push the narrative in the tabloid press that all benefit claimants are living it up with wide screen tele's and trips to Butlin's to anger working taxpayers and to ensure the spotlight is firmly on the poor. That way nobody is reporting that many billionaires pay less tax than their secretaries. A significant amount of ppl on benefit are actually working and their wages are so low they are deemed on the poverty line and receive a miniscule government top up. Targeting ppl on benefit is bad maths anyway, the money clawed back will not solve the problem. If every millionaire paid just 1 pence extra in tax the sum collected would be £2.6 billion.

France has a benefits cap. You can't receive benefits after 24 months if you are under 53, 30 months aged over that. You can get extensions of a few months but then your benefits are stopped. Here in the UK you can get benefits until you reach pensionable age.

Pensioners in France get E1,801.80 a month. That's £1,516.92 a month. Here in the UK our pensioners get £884.80 a month. £11,502.40 per annum.

The minimum wage in France is €1,801.80 per month for a standard 35-hour workweek, or €21,621.60 per year.

Here in the UK from April 2025, it's £12.21 an hour on minimum wage if you're over 21 - that's £25,396.80 a year.

Our UK benefits cap for 2025, for couples or lone parents is £22, 020 outside London, and £25, 323 within London.

So, the minimum wage is £25,396.80 per annum. On benefits you could get up to £25,323.00. What are you gonna do? Work or skive?

We expect our pensioners to survive on £11,502.40 a year. . If we want any more we have to work for it. Provisions also have to be made when you're young. These days many young people won't even work, never mind think about how they'll shift in old age.

Digger · Admin

Syl wrote:
Digger wrote:
This from Quinten Letts sums it up.

A Herefordshire friend is a plumber who also keeps livestock. He works six or seven days a week, as does his wife. They have had one holiday in the past three years, a week’s package to Spain.
My friend has a cousin who is a heroin drug addict who is classed as depressed. During the pandemic this cousin received so many food parcels from the authorities that he could not possibly eat all the stuff. He sold much of it on the black market. The cousin receives at least £700 a week in benefits and more is spent on pottery, carpentry and archery courses to lift his spirits.
My friend watches this pampering, this waste, and wonders why he bothers to work so hard. He has another drug-addict neighbour who was given a free television by social services. He sold it to raise money for drugs and then demanded a replacement. They gave him a second TV because ‘we don’t judge’.
Meanwhile, I have another acquaintance who calls himself a ‘resting’ arts administrator. He has worked six months in the past 25 years. He is on pension credits, pays no council tax, has various other perks – a free TV licence, preferential treatment at the dentist, etc – and has just come back from a chi-chi holiday in Italy. How does he vote? Labour, of course. And Labour MPs know there are plenty more like him.
Millions of hard working people who never claim a penny in benefits don't get anywhere near £700 a week.
Some lazy bastards who are fit and able to work but choose not to, claim Universal credits..(or whatever they call it now) and once they claim that, lots of other help towards normal bills and costs are available. Rent, council tax, food, energy bills, dentistry, a whole new world of freebies is opened up for them.
These people will manage to wrangle round whatever new rules this Labour government bring in. Sadly, the genuine claimants will probably be the ones who will be forced into none existent jobs suitable to their needs.

An adult over 21 on minimum wage working a 35 hour week will get £427.35

A singe adult over 21 on benefits gets £283.71 a week. That's a shortfall of £143.64 per week.

If you're a single parent with kids you get £423.46 a month.

Now, if you can extra benefits such as housing benefit, free dental treatment, reduced council tax, free prescriptions, mobility allowance, free school meals etc this all adds up. Here's a breakdown below of what you potentially might get especially if you know how to work the system. Now, why on earth would you want work?

Education:

Free School Meals: If you are unemployed or on benefits, you may be able to claim free school meals for your child.
Free School Transport: You may be eligible for free school transport.
Free Cash for School Uniforms: You may be eligible for free cash for school uniforms.

Disability Support:

Disabled Facilities Grant: This grant can help you adapt your home to make it suitable for a disabled person.
Sure Start Maternity Grant: A one-time payment of £500 to help new mothers with the costs of having a child.
Blue Badges: If eligible, you may be able to get a blue badge.

Other Benefits:

Capped Water Bills: You may be eligible for capped water bills.
Free or Cheap Broadband: You may be eligible for free or cheap broadband.
Energy Bill Support: You may be eligible for energy bill support.
Free Health Travel Costs: You may be eligible for free health travel costs.
Discounted Rail Fares: You may be eligible for discounted rail fares.
Vehicle Tax Reduction: You may be eligible for vehicle tax reduction.
Cost of Living Payments: You may be eligible for cost of living payments.
Universal Credit: If you are in or out of work, employed or self-employed, you may be eligible for Universal Credit, which covers a wide range of support.

Digger · Admin

And to add insult to injury this pompous cunt has spent thousands of tax payers money on a vanity project so he admire himself in perpetuity.

Screenshot 2025-03-22 133211.jpg

Taxpayers picked up the £36,000 bill for a portrait of the Commons Speaker.

The sum – about the same as the average UK salary – was for the painting of Sir Lindsay Hoyle by leading contemporary artist Ralph Heimans.

It was unveiled in 2023 but the cost has not been reported until now.

Sources said they believe the frame it hangs in is worth at least £10,000, taking the overall cost towards £50,000.

The Speaker’s office defended the cost, saying that the £22,000 spent on John Bercow’s portrait in 2011 ‘equates to £30,000 when adjusted for inflation’.

Oh, that makes it alright then! Seriously, this needs to stop.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

I can't stand him....his bloody voice grates.

Date: Mar 22 7:33 PM, 2025

I have no problem with children from poor households having free school meals although the kids in question often get bullied. It may be the only hot meal they have that day. Ditto money for a school. uniform. Disabled ppl or those with degenerative conditions receiving a mobility scooter also sounds perfectly reasonable. These people are not "working the system" , many of the examples given show just how steeped in poverty many ppl in the UK are. I don't think parents on minimum wage claiming universal credit to put food on the table are worthy of contempt either. But since Liz kendall (always a Tory at heart) has decided to tax the poor and disabled genuine claimants will definatly be hurt by cuts. It really is not easy to fool two independent doctors and anyone who thinks denying ppl with MS a mobility scooter will aid economic growth will soon learn otherwise. To remedy the ravaged economy+public services will mean taxing the rich maybe a pound more. Otherwise nothing will change.

Barksdale · Getting Gobby

I think most people agree that it is a good idea that individuals who can work should be in work and it doesn't make sense to disincentivise them by making it more lucrative to be on benefits instead.

However, the obvious point is the reason being on benefits is more lucrative than being in work is because pay and working conditions are generally crap. Something like 40% of people who are on Universal Credit are in-work. Why? Because Government and working people have failed to demand that employers, especially large corporations ensure that pay suitably reflects the hard work of their employees.

We have failed as a society where a young person, despite being in work, barely has any chance of financial security or getting on the property ladder or families must live pay cheque to pay cheque because big business has been allowed to walk all over the labour force. Instead we have the warped narrative that people are lazy rather than being demoralised and without hope for a better future. We get this bizarre situation where the British taxpayer supplements the wages of people because the Government cannot seem to find the will to protect living standard and working conditions for the population by expecting businesses to pay their fair share.

Hard work does not pay. Social mobility is on life support and merotocracy is a lie.

It's easier to blame the poor and foreigners though I guess.