ChaoticMusings

Maddog · Go Outside

RE: Maddog's health, fitness and longevity thread..

Maddog · Go Outside

Anonymous wrote:
It's a well known fact backed up by statistics that the American healthcare system is the worst in Western world for people in poverty who cannot afford insurance. Maddog I suspect knows this but since he personally doesn't have to worry about healthcare costs he wants to defend the service that he is satisfied with. Thats fine but he should admit there is a reason American healthcare is considered to be the worst for a myriad of reasons. Stubbornly ignoring the stats is irrational and means trying to engage him in debate about this will be a waste of time.

That's not backed up by anything.

It is true that people sometimes choose to go without insurance and they skip medical care..

It's also true that Brits that have paid NI for years die waiting for care they thought they paid for..

Maddog · Go Outside

Can I be denied cancer treatment without insurance?

You cannot. However, without insurance, you will be charged 100% of the cost of treatment unless you take action. You can negotiate your bill with the hospital. Another option is to apply for charity care. By law, nonprofit hospitals must make charity care (aka indigent care) available to needy patients. Each hospital has its own eligibility rules.

www.goodrx.com/conditions/cancer/cancer-without-insurance

I don't understand why so many Brits think cancer patients are thrown out in the street here..🤷

Date: Jun 19 1:27 AM, 2025

Anonymous wrote:
It's a well known fact backed up by statistics that the American healthcare system is the worst in Western world for people in poverty who cannot afford insurance. Maddog I suspect knows this but since he personally doesn't have to worry about healthcare costs he wants to defend the service that he is satisfied with. Thats fine but he should admit there is a reason American healthcare is considered to be the worst for a myriad of reasons. Stubbornly ignoring the stats is irrational and means trying to engage him in debate about this will be a waste of time.

Totally agree.

” Currently the US, compared to similar Western countries, has the

lowest life expectancy at birth
highest reported maternal and infant mortality
highest hospitalization rate from preventable causes
highest death rate for avoidable and treatable conditions
highest suicide rate
highest chronic disease burden rate in the world “

and you’re right continually ignoring posted statistics has proved that a rational debate is useless. “There’s none so blind…”

Date: Jun 19 1:31 AM, 2025

Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Maddog wrote:
"In general, US cancer patients have higher five-year survival rates compared to their UK counterparts, particularly for less survivable cancers. For example, a Cancer Research UK study found that US patients with less survivable cancers had higher five-year survival rates compared to the UK."

🤷
How does this happen in a country where folks can't get care?.
is this for non health insurance holders or owners of? - As it is it’s just a general statistic to me.
So you can vouch that every person without health insurance gets cancer treatment? Who pays for their room and treatments if they have no insurance? Who pays for any needed follow-up treatment and drugs? Who pays for any after care if needed?
It’s a fairly impressive statement but what about the mortality rates in other fields that have been posted about or is this all there is? It’s easy to point out one statistic whilst ignoring all the others.
It's for people diagnosed with cancer.

We catch it sooner, we treat it more aggressively and we have better survival rates..

Now, what we do is very expensive.

In what area of healthcare do Americans not do well?

Again you avoid answering direct questions.

Date: Jun 19 1:39 AM, 2025

Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
It's a well known fact backed up by statistics that the American healthcare system is the worst in Western world for people in poverty who cannot afford insurance. Maddog I suspect knows this but since he personally doesn't have to worry about healthcare costs he wants to defend the service that he is satisfied with. Thats fine but he should admit there is a reason American healthcare is considered to be the worst for a myriad of reasons. Stubbornly ignoring the stats is irrational and means trying to engage him in debate about this will be a waste of time.
That's not backed up by anything.

It is true that people sometimes choose to go without insurance and they skip medical care..

It's also true that Brits that have paid NI for years die waiting for care they thought they paid for..

Bona fide statistics, many American borne, don’t count, right?

”choose” as you put it by either you and your family living on the streets and starving or paying for health care. That’s some choice.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Maddog wrote:
Can I be denied cancer treatment without insurance?

You cannot. However, without insurance, you will be charged 100% of the cost of treatment unless you take action. You can negotiate your bill with the hospital. Another option is to apply for charity care. By law, nonprofit hospitals must make charity care (aka indigent care) available to needy patients. Each hospital has its own eligibility rules.

www.goodrx.com/conditions/cancer/cancer-without-insurance

I don't understand why so many Brits think cancer patients are thrown out in the street here..🤷

No one has said that.

That is an extreme a view as thinking people here who rely on the NHS will likely die of waiting.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Maddog wrote:
"In general, US cancer patients have higher five-year survival rates compared to their UK counterparts, particularly for less survivable cancers. For example, a Cancer Research UK study found that US patients with less survivable cancers had higher five-year survival rates compared to the UK."

🤷
How does this happen in a country where folks can't get care?.
is this for non health insurance holders or owners of? - As it is it’s just a general statistic to me.
So you can vouch that every person without health insurance gets cancer treatment? Who pays for their room and treatments if they have no insurance? Who pays for any needed follow-up treatment and drugs? Who pays for any after care if needed?
It’s a fairly impressive statement but what about the mortality rates in other fields that have been posted about or is this all there is? It’s easy to point out one statistic whilst ignoring all the others.
It's for people diagnosed with cancer.

We catch it sooner, we treat it more aggressively and we have better survival rates..

Now, what we do is very expensive.

In what area of healthcare do Americans not do well?

In this link posted previously, there are several charts which show where the US ranks with nine other countries....including the UK.

Health Care by Country 2024 Report | Commonwealth Fund

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Maddog wrote:
"In general, US cancer patients have higher five-year survival rates compared to their UK counterparts, particularly for less survivable cancers. For example, a Cancer Research UK study found that US patients with less survivable cancers had higher five-year survival rates compared to the UK."

🤷
How does this happen in a country where folks can't get care?.
is this for non health insurance holders or owners of? - As it is it’s just a general statistic to me.
So you can vouch that every person without health insurance gets cancer treatment? Who pays for their room and treatments if they have no insurance? Who pays for any needed follow-up treatment and drugs? Who pays for any after care if needed?
It’s a fairly impressive statement but what about the mortality rates in other fields that have been posted about or is this all there is? It’s easy to point out one statistic whilst ignoring all the others.
It's for people diagnosed with cancer.

We catch it sooner, we treat it more aggressively and we have better survival rates..

Now, what we do is very expensive.

In what area of healthcare do Americans not do well?

In this link posted previously, there are several charts which show where the US ranks with nine other countries....including the UK.

Health Care by Country 2024 Report | Commonwealth Fund

What is the most important criteria for rating health care?

If one makes Universal Coverage the gold standard, then the US will never rank high.

If you make surviving a serious illness important, there is no place you'd rather be.

Edit.

In the care process, which is the only thing that matters when you need health CARE, we are 2, right behind NZ..

I'm not interested in the other categories that don't mean shit when you have a tumor or blood pouring out of your head..

-- Edited by Maddog on Thursday 19th of June 2025 06:07:16 PM

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

You came last in 'access to care'....you need to be able to access it before it can be administered.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
You came last in 'access to care'....you need to be able to access it before it can be administered.

And how was that measured..

The entire ranking is designed to measure things that dont matter and will skew the results to any system with universal care..

Date: Jun 19 7:29 PM, 2025

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
You came last in 'access to care'....you need to be able to access it before it can be administered.
And how was that measured..

The entire ranking is designed to measure things that dont matter and will skew the results to any system with universal care..

Jesus wept.

Any doubts have now been confirmed.

Maddog · Go Outside

Anonymous wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
You came last in 'access to care'....you need to be able to access it before it can be administered.
And how was that measured..

The entire ranking is designed to measure things that dont matter and will skew the results to any system with universal care..
Jesus wept.

Any doubts have now been confirmed.

What is it that you doubt?