ChaoticMusings

Digger · Admin

Assisted Dying Bill

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

I don't know. I think it should be legal to have medical help to die, it should be up to the person who is terminally suffering.
There are valid reasons why some object though.

So personally, going from my own experiences, I would vote yes.

Magica · Go Outside

I think it should be for people locked in aswell, what life is that?

I would want it, but I bet the wo kes say.no.

Date: Nov 29 3:01 PM, 2024

I hope it gets passed. Who knows what the future holds for any of us, we may find ourselves in a position when/where being able to plan a dignified release a blessing and have the comfort of knowing our loved ones will not be penalised.

Digger · Admin

It has been passed. I honestly thought it wouldn't. But it was quite a narrow margin.

I think people who think it's wrong should spend an hour in a nerve induction machine, similar to the one men can use to appreciate the agony of childbirth. Let them sit and suffer the level of pain those dying of cancer are put through and see them tick that box.

Magica · Go Outside

Digger wrote:
It has been passed. I honestly thought it wouldn't. But it was quite a narrow margin.
I think people who think it's wrong should spend an hour in a nerve induction machine, similar to the one men can use to appreciate the agony of childbirth. Let them sit and suffer the level of pain those dying of cancer are put through and see them tick that box.

I think so too. In fact let's see how they feel when someone they love, may be them too, has a terminal disease.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

One of the arguments against was that some people may be made to feel they are a drain on their families.
The way some people treat the old and ailing, I can see that could happen.

Magica · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
One of the arguments against was that some people may be made to feel they are a drain on their families.
The way some people treat the old and ailing, I can see that could happen.

I dont, because if they are cared for, they wont. However they could get depression.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
One of the arguments against was that some people may be made to feel they are a drain on their families.
The way some people treat the old and ailing, I can see that could happen.
I dont, because if they are cared for, they wont. However they could get depression.

The point I am making is that not every old or ill person is cared for Mags.

Imagine having a family that want you out of the way.

Magica · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
One of the arguments against was that some people may be made to feel they are a drain on their families.
The way some people treat the old and ailing, I can see that could happen.
I dont, because if they are cared for, they wont. However they could get depression.
The point I am making is that not every old or ill person is cared for Mags.
Imagine having a family that want you out of the way.

Yes I see that, but doctors have to sign for this, so not too easy to get rid of someone if they wanted to.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Though someone who is old and ill could be coerced into thinking they would be better off dead by a morally corrupt family member.

Doctors are not mind readers.

Maddog · Go Outside

While I'm not opposed to the concept, the Canadians got a bit carried away and were suggesting relatively healthy people use it as a bit of cost cutting measure, either for the patients family or society.

"In a survey of those 13,102 Canadians who ended their lives under Maid, the vast majority cited the “loss of ability to engage in meaningful life activities” as the reason for wanting to die. But other responses have troubled healthcare experts. More than one-third of respondents said their decision was, in part, informed by a feeling they were a perceived burden on family, friends or caregivers."

www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/25/canada-assisted-dying-laws-in-spotlight-as-expansion-paused-again

Date: Nov 30 9:58 AM, 2024

It’s about time!

When the diagnosis is irrefutably terminal, and provided every extensive investigative procedure of the patient and their family’s wishes is fully carried out, then it’s inhumane to do anything other than to end the patient’s suffering.

It’s inhumane to just let someone who is in unrelenting unimaginable pain, or who has lost control of their bodily functions, suffer indefinitely. Let them go in peace and with dignity.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Vam wrote:
It’s about time!
When the diagnosis is irrefutably terminal, and provided every extensive investigative procedure of the patient and their family’s wishes is fully carried out, then it’s inhumane to do anything other than to end the patient’s suffering.

It’s inhumane to just let someone who is in unrelenting unimaginable pain, or who has lost control of their bodily functions, suffer indefinitely. Let them go in peace and with dignity.

Yes, and I don't see how anyone who has ever seen a loved one get to that stage of existence, could think differently.

Date: Nov 30 12:46 PM, 2024

Syl wrote:
Vam wrote:
It’s about time!
When the diagnosis is irrefutably terminal, and provided every extensive investigative procedure of the patient and their family’s wishes is fully carried out, then it’s inhumane to do anything other than to end the patient’s suffering.

It’s inhumane to just let someone who is in unrelenting unimaginable pain, or who has lost control of their bodily functions, suffer indefinitely. Let them go in peace and with dignity.

Yes, and I don't see how anyone who has ever seen a loved one get to that stage of existence, could think differently.

Like many things in life, there isn't a problem until it affects them or a loved one personally.

Have the religious bodies commented yet?

Maddog · Go Outside

Vam wrote:
It’s about time!
When the diagnosis is irrefutably terminal, and provided every extensive investigative procedure of the patient and their family’s wishes is fully carried out, then it’s inhumane to do anything other than to end the patient’s suffering.

It’s inhumane to just let someone who is in unrelenting unimaginable pain, or who has lost control of their bodily functions, suffer indefinitely. Let them go in peace and with dignity.

I think the decision is easy at that point..

The problem will be when someone who is relatively healthy just doesn't want to live anymore. What should the law say about them?

My gut says you "own" your life and can end it whenever you want, and for whatever reason. My brain worries about the can of worms that could open.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Maddog wrote:
Vam wrote:
It’s about time!
When the diagnosis is irrefutably terminal, and provided every extensive investigative procedure of the patient and their family’s wishes is fully carried out, then it’s inhumane to do anything other than to end the patient’s suffering.

It’s inhumane to just let someone who is in unrelenting unimaginable pain, or who has lost control of their bodily functions, suffer indefinitely. Let them go in peace and with dignity.

I think the decision is easy at that point..

The problem will be when someone who is relatively healthy just doesn't want to live anymore. What should the law say about them?

My gut says you "own" your life and can end it whenever you want, and for whatever reason. My brain worries about the can of worms that could open.

I can't see it ever coming to pass that medics would be allowed (or even willing) to end a healthy life.

Date: Nov 30 5:32 PM, 2024

Syl wrote:
Vam wrote:
It’s about time!
When the diagnosis is irrefutably terminal, and provided every extensive investigative procedure of the patient and their family’s wishes is fully carried out, then it’s inhumane to do anything other than to end the patient’s suffering.

It’s inhumane to just let someone who is in unrelenting unimaginable pain, or who has lost control of their bodily functions, suffer indefinitely. Let them go in peace and with dignity.

Yes, and I don't see how anyone who has ever seen a loved one get to that stage of existence, could think differently.

I get how it can be a heartbreaking dilemma, Syl. But yes, how could anyone see the person they love linger on and suffer indefinitely when a humane alternative is available.

Aside from my Mamma and my late husband’s Stage 4 cancer in which, mercifully, nature took its course relatively quickly, this thread has resonated with me because of what I’ve seen relatively recently.

A wonderful man close to me, with a lovely wife and pre-teen kids, was diagnosed with ALS (aka Lou Gherig’s Disease). He was in his early 40s at the time. ALS is terminal and brutal. He went from a very active healthy vibrant lifestyle, to a gradual degeneration and complete loss of function of EVERY part of his body. Just before he got to the stage of being unable to even swallow, he was begging his medical team for a blessed relief and an end to his (and of course his family’s) suffering. There was nothing his doctors could do, and his eventual passing was long drawn-out and soul-crushing.

Another unforgiving and unrelenting disease is Parkinson’s. Parkinson’s is also brutal, but it takes its own sweet time in decimating someone’s life. I’m seeing the husband of a close friend of mine, in his early 60’s when he was diagnosed three years ago. Since then, I’ve seen him steadily deteriorating more and more every time we get together. Parkinson’s can severely affect brain function too, which is soul-destroying. They’re quite well off, and he has made his wishes CRYSTAL clear - when he’s at end-stage, he made his wife swear she’d arrange to ship him off to a Swiss Assisted Death clinic. As heartbreaking as it is, his wife will do exactly as he has asked.

Sorry to offload but, as I said, this thread has struck a chord…

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Don't be sorry to offload, if you have a story to tell, it's interesting for others to hear it.

I can't imagine how horrible it must be to pack someone off to a foreign country in order for their terminal suffering to end.

To be able to slip away, medicated by a professional, in the comfort of familiar surroundings, with family close by, would be the ideal, I am sure, for most of us.

Date: Nov 30 5:52 PM, 2024

Syl wrote:
Don't be sorry to offload, if you have a story to tell, it's interesting for others to hear it.

I can't imagine how horrible it must be to pack someone off to a foreign country in order for their terminal suffering to end.

To be able to slip away, medicated by a professional, in the comfort of familiar surroundings, with family close by, would be the ideal, I am sure, for most of us.

Absolutely! And thankfully, it seems your scenario will soon be available in the UK.

That said, the Swiss clinic is fantastic in every way imaginable, both for the patient and family/friends. There’s a movie about it I watched a while back, but can’t recall the title. I’ll get back to you with that