ChaoticMusings

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Starmers UK/EU Brexit reset deal.

Magica · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Can't wait to see the full details. I wonder who will be getting the better deal here with him in the chair.

Good start...But Sir Keir sparked a furious backlash from the fishing industry and Brexiteers by striking a deal for EU fisherman to access British waters for 12 years, far longer than had been expected.

UK politics live: Full details of UK-EU Brexit reset deal revealed as ‘new chapter’ begins | The Independent

I think he's pulling us back from Brexit. I don't trust that traitor at all.

Red Okktober · Getting Gobby

So fishermen will be joining farmers, pensioners, small business owners, and the sick and the disabled in voting Reform next time. Reform have already said they will repeal the fishing rights as soon as they are elected, and Kemi says that she will 'reverse Labour's EU bill'

It would impossible for there not to be some good parts for the UK in there - at what cost though? I can see that we are going to have to start abiding by EU law over some things. So much for regaining our sovereignty.

I just wish it was someone else, anyone else, other than Starmer who was negotiating on our behalf. We already know that his main priority lies in getting re-elected, as seen by his U turn on immigration and possibly winter fuel soon as well. The idiot is now claiming that 'Britain is back'

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Britain will never be back whilst he is at the helm.

Oh wait....he has negotiated us getting through passport channels quicker when we go on our holidays, just a pity many Brits are cancelling, due to the fact many EU holiday destinations are making it plain we are not welcome there anymore.

Barksdale · Getting Gobby

I guess whether you think it is a good deal or not depends what you value more - the economy & defence or sovereignty.

Economically & security wise it is pretty good as it reduces trade barriers and better defence co-operation. Reduced checks also help with resolving the NI issue etc. Fishing has taken a hit but that is offset by less burdens on small businesses as well as protection for the steel industry. It also helps with joint co-operation with EU countries in relation to illegal immigrration.

However the trade offs are with regard to sovereignty. We have to align with EU standards on food without any say on them and possible oversight by European courts. This may add costs to businesses when it comes to complying with EU standards.

I've always thought Brexit has more damaging to the UK than beneficial so I welcome the deal and see it as generally a good one. We'll never have as good a deal as we had before but there's no going back it seems.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

I voted Brexit, we didn't get what we were promised.
Not too proud to admit I voted the wrong way.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing...it just comes too late.

Date: May 20 12:31 AM, 2025

We are 37 billion worse off annually because of Brexit. Most who voted for it, unlike Syl, cannot be honest and admit it's been an economic disaster making the poor much poorer. The reason he can't get a better deal is because he has to maintain we are still a sovereign nation. Anything is better than nothing, isolating ourselves just makes us unable to trade without expensive red tape that saw many local businesses go under . Starmer has eradicated some of that at least.

Magica · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
I voted Brexit, we didn't get what we were promised.
Not too proud to admit I voted the wrong way.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing...it just comes too late.

I have to say I feel the same.

We didn't get what we were promised with Brexit, therefore it was a failure. The governments had no intention of fully pulling out of EU.

We were let down ....again.

Date: May 20 9:13 AM, 2025

Yes Magica, you were lied to by Michael Gove and Nigel Farage who promised the NHS would receive 2 billion pounds if people voted for brewit. Needless to say Brexit materalised but the money did not. Farage blatantly lied to the pubic proving he cannot be trusted, yet you and Red want him for PM! That makes no logical sense.

Date: May 20 9:35 AM, 2025

Magica, can you please explain why you want us 'fully ' out of the EU? Would it of benefited the economy in your view? Johnson's deal did not sever ties completely with the EU, you are correct about that. If the Tories had fully left as you wanted do you think we would have be in a better place now?

Vam · Musing at the Chaos

Did the big red Boris Bus end up in a scrapyard?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/15/boris-johnson-we-will-claw-back-350m-a-week-post-brexit-after-all

Vam · Musing at the Chaos

In my admittedly simplistic layman’s view, the 2 main triggering issues that led to Brexit were: Immigration and the Boris Bus.

-- Edited by Vam on Tuesday 20th of May 2025 11:01:04 AM

Barksdale · Getting Gobby

Syl wrote:
I voted Brexit, we didn't get what we were promised.
Not too proud to admit I voted the wrong way.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing...it just comes too late.

I think a lot of people voted for Brexit as they thought the country was not working for them and was changing in a way they never signed up for. Generally British people have a sense of fairness and saw their hard work not being rewarded, and the social contract broken. Sure, there were some racists in all of that but for the most part I think people were fed up of being ignored and overlooked and wanted change. Can't really blame them for that.

If Brexit was ever going to be delivered then it would have been in 2019 when Boris won an 80 seat majority. If it didn't happen in those conditions it is probably undeliverable in political reality.

To be blunt I don't think we can afford protracted Brexit attempts. Like a lot of Western nations we are in a tough spot. We spend too much and our economy is not growing enough for this path to be sustainable. We have an aging population but with a falling birth rate. In short we have maxed out our credit card, but have more mouths to feed but with less workers to do so. This cannot carry on.

We need to focus on what we are good at (mainly services, tech, universities, finance, AI etc) and use that growth to soften the blow for dying industries (such as fishing) and the less fortunate. That means international co-operation not isolationism. We cannot rely on the US any longer and given the peace dividend as ended need closer co-operation on defence with other allies such as Europe.

The world moves on and so do we.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Our partnership with the EU should have always worked, I just think we often seemed to draw the short straw.
Now more than ever we need to once more build up our alliance with the rest of Europe, and hopefully, going forwards, we can.
I think the Ukraine war and the way Trump is acting has strengthened the bond more than it has been since Brexit.

I just hope wishy-washy Starmer will find the balls to negotiate as strongly as we need him to.

Date: May 20 12:54 PM, 2025

Spot on post from Barksdale. No post Brexit deal will be perfect, we snubbed Europe after all and they have a right to be a little annoyed. But financially we have no choice but to unite with the EU. We need access to the european market to have a chance of having a functioning economy again. The last few years have proven that all too clearly. We were denying ourselves free trade for no reason! The Tories and Reform need to be honest with their voters rather than live in a fantasy land.

Red Okktober · Getting Gobby

Having gone all Nigel Farage last week and said he will get tough on immigration and that we are 'becoming an island of strangers', Starmer is now on the verge of throwing open the doors with this freedom of movement for under 30s.

Tens, if not hundreds, of thousands will be allowed in under the scheme. They are supposed to have a maximum stay of 3 years, and I'm sure the idiot believes that they will all hold up their end of the bargain and go back once the 3 years is up. This will be a constant stream of immigrants coming in legally. This is in addition to, and not instead of, the legal and illegal immigrants that will aready be coming in.

Also, many of these under 30s would have entered mainland Europe illegally in the first place, and have since been granted EU citizenships. The only difference between them and the illegals we see crossing the Channel in dinghies, is that they would have had a few years stop off in Europe first to collect their EU citizenships and become legal.

The shadow Home Secretary has said that Starmer is a 'disingenuous charlatan when it comes to our border security'

Magica · Go Outside

Anonymous wrote:
Yes Magica, you were lied to by Michael Gove and Nigel Farage who promised the NHS would receive 2 billion pounds if people voted for brewit. Needless to say Brexit materalised but the money did not. Farage blatantly lied to the pubic proving he cannot be trusted, yet you and Red want him for PM! That makes no logical sense.

There's no one else tbh. I think he will make a good PM, but.I'm no fool, they all lie and say what we want to hear until voted.

Also Labour and Cons are finished. Dragged this country down between them.

-- Edited by Magica on Tuesday 20th of May 2025 03:17:13 PM

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Magica wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Yes Magica, you were lied to by Michael Gove and Nigel Farage who promised the NHS would receive 2 billion pounds if people voted for brewit. Needless to say Brexit materalised but the money did not. Farage blatantly lied to the pubic proving he cannot be trusted, yet you and Red want him for PM! That makes no logical sense.
There's no one else tbh. I think he will make a good PM, but.I'm no fool, they all lie and say what we want to hear until voted.
Also Labour and Cons are finished. Dragged this country down between them.

-- Edited by Magica on Tuesday 20th of May 2025 03:17:13 PM

The only politician I can think of who would make a good PM, is the mayor of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham. He is open and honest, and very popular in the NW.

He was an MP for a long time, and has served as Mayor here since 2017.

He hasn't ruled out returning to politics and standing again.

Date: May 20 8:07 PM, 2025

I remember Andy Burnham and he seemed to be a genuinely caring man. I would happily accept him as PM but I think he's too fair and frankly,nice for the job. You have to shake hands with dictators with a smile and doing that would darken the soul after a while. Manchester are fortunate to have him as mayor.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Anonymous wrote:
I remember Andy Burnham and he seemed to be a genuinely caring man. I would happily accept him as PM but I think he's too fair and frankly,nice for the job. You have to shake hands with dictators with a smile and doing that would darken the soul after a while. Manchester are fortunate to have him as mayor.

He is nice, but he gets things done.

He fights for what he wants, and tries his best to get some of the 'levelling up' that governments have promised, to bring the north more in line with the south.

One thing he has always done, is give a portion of his wage to a homeless charity he started years ago.