ChaoticMusings

rollup wrote:

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Science and truth versus money and propaganda .....

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 I have decided this year that I am going for the flu jab. Never had it before, but 

I am sick of getting colds. 

BackGammon wrote:

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It’s similar with the great Statin con. Some people do well on them but they make some people very unwell. I won’t entertain them. The practice here encourages a low carb high fat approach to diabetes and encourage borderline patients to attend a clinic where they advise following this diet.

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 Got my cholesterol down from 4.9 to 3.8 by not eating processed Meats 

-- Edited by Twizzler on Friday 23rd of August 2019 09:29:36 PM

JP wrote:

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Syl wrote:

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BackGammon wrote:

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It’s similar with the great Statin con. Some people do well on them but they make some people very unwell. I won’t entertain them. The practice here encourages a low carb high fat approach to diabetes and encourage borderline patients to attend a clinic where they advise following this diet.

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 I have high cholesterol and after being advised for about 5 years by the GP's to try statins I did....first lot gave me leg pains at night, second lot gave me sciatica, which was really painful.

I came off them and wont be trying a third lot.

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 Nothing really suits everyone.

Let's face it everyone is an individual entity. And the body is one complicated mother fucker.

-- Edited by JP on Friday 23rd of August 2019 07:27:54 PM

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 Exactly. Statins almost halved my cholesterol but I made the decision they didn't suit me.

Some people take them with no noticable side effects whatsoever....we are all different.

-- Edited by Syl on Friday 23rd of August 2019 10:53:32 PM

Twizzler wrote:

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rollup wrote:

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Science and truth versus money and propaganda .....

---

 I have decided this year that I am going for the flu jab. Never had it before, but 

I am sick of getting colds. 

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 Flu jab will do nothing whatsoever for colds .... it's not a colds jab and the two are not related.

rollup wrote:

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JP wrote:

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rollup wrote:

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JP wrote:

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Well the vaccination stuff has kicked things off a little.

Personally I'll go with the below NHS link. Seeing as I live in the UK, and believe in the NHS.

Over years the growing size of the internet has made it more confusing than ever for people to decide what to do about vaccinations. Information overload doesn't help matters. Contradictory links all over the shop. Websites made up by god knows who, information posted by every so-called legitimate organisation under the sun. Mostly all it does is hinder.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/why-vaccination-is-safe-and-important/

I don't however agree with JD saying things such as anti vaccination people are the most dangerous people on earth. Maybe he doesn't mean to sound that extreme. Hopefully not.

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 One of the problems with NHS information is it comes from NICE.

Nice guidelines can take many years to catch up with modern research plus your GP and your chemist are told by Nice what NICE are told by the pharmaceutical companies.

NICE guidelines on T2 diabetes for example are way behind the times .... they are waY behind the times on dietary fats and dietary contribution to so called bad cholesterol.

They are way behind with the latest research regarding cholesterol full stop.

Here's an example of out of date information and very bad clinical advice ....

The following link takes you to a British Diabetes site that will not and cannot recommend high fat diets why?

Because in part they are funded by the government and advised by NICE. https://www.diabetes.org.uk

The following site is a British diabetes site and does talk about high fat diets and is seeing people turn around T2 diabetes because it doesn't follow the outdated NICE NHS advice on diets ....  https://www.diabetes.co.uk but then it's privately owned and funded.

The latter actually pushes the latest scientific findings regarding cholesterol being essential for brain renewal and a possible avoidance of dementia due to following high fat diets.

Ridicules the NICE guidelines regarding eggs giving you high cholesterol and other dietary bollox.

NICE are beginning to catch up with low carb high fat diets but I don't think they have started giving out that kind of advice yet.

When I followed the latest science rather than the outdated NICE/NHS guidelines and took control of my T2 like no other patient at my surgery my surgery were aghast at my high fat approach.

When they saw the results of lower blood pressure lower so called bad cholesterol near perfect glucose control they eventually held their hands up and admitted I was the only one on their books getting better not worse. Taking less and now npo medication compared to the NHS/NICE patients taking ever more medication but .... we have to give the official advice we can't say but we know a guy called Jack.

So much for truth and science.

I followed the science while surgerys across the land were more or less making people sicker because of advise from NICE which gets its advice from big pharma.

Science often comes second to truth and money.

Again for refusing to tow the MSM line I was at first held in contempt at my surgery for being stupid .... they couldn't argue with the results though.

If you are diabetic go to the forums in the latter link .... the conspiracy theory type one as opposed to the NICE scientific oifficial one if you want to live.

 

 

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 Who do you trust then? Who do you get your information from? I assume you use NHS Doctors. Don't you take the advice of your GP and Doctors. The latter site is the one my Mum is advised to use, this is 'NHS' Diabetic Nurses saying that.

How do you know the LATEST Science you follow is correct. How do you know the info you rely on is formulated accurately. You may have done well by it, but you're just one person, everyone is individual. Many other people could follow the same processes and their bodies may not react the same as yours.

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 For the T2 information I was first directed to the first site I linked to.

Same advice all in all that was available at the surgery with the eat well plate etc.

Everyone talking about being miserable fighting a losing battle making short progress and going backwards and being put on more and more medication.

Not a lot of hope.

Discovered the second site and almost immediately I was hit with the low carb high fat stuff and people buzzing about successes positive changes hope.

Not everyone of course but I left and went back to the first site thinking the second lot were crazy .... eat fat to lose weight bring down cholesterol!

Crazy people.

Back at the first site I noticed and so did my surgery with no surprise whatsoever that everything was slowly getting worse with even now having nerve damage behind my left eye .... retinopathy.

T2 can lead to blindness and my left eye now damaged disturbed me.

Back to the firt site to join the lunatics who mostly were improving their lives even repairing nerve damage in eyes!

What have I got to lose I thought the evidence .... the evidence was looking good for the lunatics with improving health.

I now take no medications for diabetes and I have no nerve damage to my eyes and haven't had for three years .... could be four I don't really keep count.

Nice to hear surgeries are now getting on the low carb high fat wagon .... against the mainstream failed mantras.

So for me it was about talking to people .... there's a quarter of a million members on the site ..... talking to people with experience and improved health and digging deeper to find out how and why.

The science the NHS was selling was outdated rubbish basically and once digging deep I discovered it never was e it was corporate and government bullshit to boost all manner of industries.

-- Edited by rollup on Friday 23rd of August 2019 11:48:30 PM

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 Things often change rapidly in the medical world. Any good Diabetic nurse who someone sees in the flesh will be up on the latest thought to be useful and successful paths to follow.

As I said previously, things can often be very individual. I've noted this especially seems to be the case with T2 diabetes. A bunch of people on a forum will go yeah that works for me, and a near enough equal number of people will say nah it isn't working out for me.

 

 

-- Edited by JP on Saturday 24th of August 2019 02:05:11 AM

rollup wrote:

---

JP wrote:

---

rollup wrote:

---

JP wrote:

---

rollup wrote:

---

JP wrote:

---

Well the vaccination stuff has kicked things off a little.

Personally I'll go with the below NHS link. Seeing as I live in the UK, and believe in the NHS.

Over years the growing size of the internet has made it more confusing than ever for people to decide what to do about vaccinations. Information overload doesn't help matters. Contradictory links all over the shop. Websites made up by god knows who, information posted by every so-called legitimate organisation under the sun. Mostly all it does is hinder.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/why-vaccination-is-safe-and-important/

I don't however agree with JD saying things such as anti vaccination people are the most dangerous people on earth. Maybe he doesn't mean to sound that extreme. Hopefully not.

---

 One of the problems with NHS information is it comes from NICE.

Nice guidelines can take many years to catch up with modern research plus your GP and your chemist are told by Nice what NICE are told by the pharmaceutical companies.

NICE guidelines on T2 diabetes for example are way behind the times .... they are waY behind the times on dietary fats and dietary contribution to so called bad cholesterol.

They are way behind with the latest research regarding cholesterol full stop.

Here's an example of out of date information and very bad clinical advice ....

The following link takes you to a British Diabetes site that will not and cannot recommend high fat diets why?

Because in part they are funded by the government and advised by NICE. https://www.diabetes.org.uk

The following site is a British diabetes site and does talk about high fat diets and is seeing people turn around T2 diabetes because it doesn't follow the outdated NICE NHS advice on diets ....  https://www.diabetes.co.uk but then it's privately owned and funded.

The latter actually pushes the latest scientific findings regarding cholesterol being essential for brain renewal and a possible avoidance of dementia due to following high fat diets.

Ridicules the NICE guidelines regarding eggs giving you high cholesterol and other dietary bollox.

NICE are beginning to catch up with low carb high fat diets but I don't think they have started giving out that kind of advice yet.

When I followed the latest science rather than the outdated NICE/NHS guidelines and took control of my T2 like no other patient at my surgery my surgery were aghast at my high fat approach.

When they saw the results of lower blood pressure lower so called bad cholesterol near perfect glucose control they eventually held their hands up and admitted I was the only one on their books getting better not worse. Taking less and now npo medication compared to the NHS/NICE patients taking ever more medication but .... we have to give the official advice we can't say but we know a guy called Jack.

So much for truth and science.

I followed the science while surgerys across the land were more or less making people sicker because of advise from NICE which gets its advice from big pharma.

Science often comes second to truth and money.

Again for refusing to tow the MSM line I was at first held in contempt at my surgery for being stupid .... they couldn't argue with the results though.

If you are diabetic go to the forums in the latter link .... the conspiracy theory type one as opposed to the NICE scientific oifficial one if you want to live.

 

 

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 Who do you trust then? Who do you get your information from? I assume you use NHS Doctors. Don't you take the advice of your GP and Doctors. The latter site is the one my Mum is advised to use, this is 'NHS' Diabetic Nurses saying that.

How do you know the LATEST Science you follow is correct. How do you know the info you rely on is formulated accurately. You may have done well by it, but you're just one person, everyone is individual. Many other people could follow the same processes and their bodies may not react the same as yours.

---

 For the T2 information I was first directed to the first site I linked to.

Same advice all in all that was available at the surgery with the eat well plate etc.

Everyone talking about being miserable fighting a losing battle making short progress and going backwards and being put on more and more medication.

Not a lot of hope.

Discovered the second site and almost immediately I was hit with the low carb high fat stuff and people buzzing about successes positive changes hope.

Not everyone of course but I left and went back to the first site thinking the second lot were crazy .... eat fat to lose weight bring down cholesterol!

Crazy people.

Back at the first site I noticed and so did my surgery with no surprise whatsoever that everything was slowly getting worse with even now having nerve damage behind my left eye .... retinopathy.

T2 can lead to blindness and my left eye now damaged disturbed me.

Back to the firt site to join the lunatics who mostly were improving their lives even repairing nerve damage in eyes!

What have I got to lose I thought the evidence .... the evidence was looking good for the lunatics with improving health.

I now take no medications for diabetes and I have no nerve damage to my eyes and haven't had for three years .... could be four I don't really keep count.

Nice to hear surgeries are now getting on the low carb high fat wagon .... against the mainstream failed mantras.

So for me it was about talking to people .... there's a quarter of a million members on the site ..... talking to people with experience and improved health and digging deeper to find out how and why.

The science the NHS was selling was outdated rubbish basically and once digging deep I discovered it never was e it was corporate and government bullshit to boost all manner of industries.

-- Edited by rollup on Friday 23rd of August 2019 11:48:30 PM

---

 Things often change rapidly in the medical world. Any good Diabetic nurse who someone sees in the flesh will be up on the latest thought to be useful and successful paths to follow.

As I said previously, things can often be very individual. I've noted this especially seems to be the case with T2 diabetes. A bunch of people on a forum will go yeah that works for me, and a near enough equal number of people will say nah it isn't working out for me.

 

 

-- Edited by JP on Saturday 24th of August 2019 02:05:11 AM

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 Diabetic nurse at my surgery was useless.

I told her I'd studied the glycemic load stuff and was happy with my understanding of it.

You mean glycemic index .... no I replied I mean glycemic load which I find easier to deal with in my head as I'm actually looking at food on a shelf and wondering what to do with it.

There's no such thing as glycemic load she says.

Look I just bought a hundred quids worth of books on both index and load .... this was within the first weeks of being diagnosed ..... well the books are rubbish then!

Look glycemic load has been around for quite a few years and you haven't kept up with your studies or in fact your interest in your patients well being .... I refused to see her after that as did many it turned out for many and varied reasons.

Yes what works for me might not work for you but the diet is pretty basic common sense stuff. I count nothing weigh nothing measure nothing just make a common sense decision on what I've learned but nothing works the same for everyone as you say which is even more reason to look more closely at vaccines rather than just decide they're all good all safe we should all be forced to take them whether we want to or not. The science is far from and can probably never be fully settled for every person in a town let alone a country or the world.

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 My Mum is T1. She sees Diabetic Nurses and Consultants at the Hospital. When she was first diagnosed ketoacidosis had developed, ever since then she's been under the Hospital diabetic team. I've been to the centre once or twice. I figure mainly type 1 people are there, and some insulin independent type 2 diabetics. A better class of Nurse and expert seems to reside in the Hospital as one might expect.

As you say diabetic nurses at GP surgeries may not be very good. I know someone who is T2 and they said pretty much the same thing.

T1 and T2 are obviously different in some ways. As I say though in the past I have looked over a few diabetic forums.

-- Edited by JP on Saturday 24th of August 2019 02:55:46 PM

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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???

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 Did anyone discover what was being spoken about behind closed doors?

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 No probably because the doors aren't closed when you have a key .... it's pretty easy to get a key.

don't join, its a trick there is nothing behind the locked doors. :(

Not true, we have afternoon tea, knitting lessons, and embroidery for beginners.