ChaoticMusings

JP · Burning up the forum

Covid19 vaccination.

John Doe · Still Here!

I still fail to understand why so many seem to believe COVID-19 is not deadly and quite frankly just because it affects the 'elderly' members of society the most that their deaths should not matter.

The oldest people should be the most precious for their experience and knowledge.

Not just pieces of dead meat or statistics.

People are desperate to turn it into a political issue in the UK which makes me sick.

Johnson has fucked up.

This Christmas shit is cobblers - third wave here we come.

Maddog · Go Outside

John Doe wrote:
I still fail to understand why so many seem to believe COVID-19 is not deadly and quite frankly just because it affects the 'elderly' members of society the most that their deaths should not matter.

The oldest people should be the most precious for their experience and knowledge.

Not just pieces of dead meat or statistics.

People are desperate to turn it into a political issue in the UK which makes me sick.

Johnson has fucked up.

This Christmas shit is cobblers - third wave here we come.

I think a lot of people dont trust government in general. Its not that they dont think it's serious, but not as serious as some make it out to be.

As Obama's first chief of staff said "never let a disaster go to waste".

Too many people look at things as all or nothing. Good or bad. They dont understand nuance.

On a scale of one to ten, the folks at one and ten cant comprehend the folks at each end of the scale or the people at five.

Date: Nov 27 7:56 AM, 2020

People saying "you don't care about the elderly" is just virtual signalling. I care more than you, just BS, you are just caring about those you are told to care about.

I care about all the elderly not just certain ones. I still cry thinking about all those elderly left in nursing homes crying at the windows wondering why they cannot see their loved ones. those who died never seeing them again. I cry thinking about all those elderly that died when idiots made the strange decision to release those with covid into nursing homes killing the elderly by the 1000s, then blamed the carers!

I care about all the people losing their homes, all of those losing their businesses while the large corporations are getting richer.

We have to weigh this up, we have to use common sense and there does not seem to be any at the moment. Anyone questioning is seen as a selfish CT who does not care about anyone, unlike those following every single daft rule are seen as loving and giving. they know they make no sense but will still follow because governments will praise them for following daft rules and because they are scared to break away and question the daft rules in case they are accused of being selfish.

My area has always had very low numbers and yet we are now going to be in tier 2 stricter rules than before lockdown. Why is that? You telling me a city like London is a 2 when my area is also a 2. if we have come out of lockdown to even stricter rules then lockdowns don't work.

Tiers are just another name for lockdown

I'm about done with this BS.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Some sort of skewed strategy definitely comes into play when the tier system is being decided.

Manchester has been in tier 2/3 for months, eventually our infection and death rates were starting to fall consistently.....then the figures in London started to rise again, amazingly, based on the London situation, the whole of England was then put into lockdown.

All of greater Manchester is now in tier 3 even though some areas have half the infection rate of other boroughs.

Unfortunately that's what happens when London based central government makes decisions for the whole of the country.

JP · Burning up the forum

Syl wrote:
Some sort of skewed strategy definitely comes into play when the tier system is being decided.

Manchester has been in tier 2/3 for months, eventually our infection and death rates were starting to fall consistently.....then the figures in London started to rise again, amazingly, based on the London situation, the whole of England was then put into lockdown.

All of greater Manchester is now in tier 3 even though some areas have half the infection rate of other boroughs.

Unfortunately that's what happens when London based central government makes decisions for the whole of the country.

Not so sure. Liverpool is getting praise. And are in tier 2. Liverpool is obviously up North. Nowhere near London.

JP · Burning up the forum

Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
I still fail to understand why so many seem to believe COVID-19 is not deadly and quite frankly just because it affects the 'elderly' members of society the most that their deaths should not matter.

The oldest people should be the most precious for their experience and knowledge.

Not just pieces of dead meat or statistics.

People are desperate to turn it into a political issue in the UK which makes me sick.

Johnson has fucked up.

This Christmas shit is cobblers - third wave here we come.

I think a lot of people dont trust government in general. Its not that they dont think it's serious, but not as serious as some make it out to be.

As Obama's first chief of staff said "never let a disaster go to waste".

Too many people look at things as all or nothing. Good or bad. They dont understand nuance.

On a scale of one to ten, the folks at one and ten cant comprehend the folks at each end of the scale or the people at five.

Yep. Good summary.

JP · Burning up the forum

Anonymous wrote:
People saying "you don't care about the elderly" is just virtual signalling. I care more than you, just BS, you are just caring about those you are told to care about.

I care about all the elderly not just certain ones. I still cry thinking about all those elderly left in nursing homes crying at the windows wondering why they cannot see their loved ones. those who died never seeing them again. I cry thinking about all those elderly that died when idiots made the strange decision to release those with covid into nursing homes killing the elderly by the 1000s, then blamed the carers!
I care about all the people losing their homes, all of those losing their businesses while the large corporations are getting richer.

We have to weigh this up, we have to use common sense and there does not seem to be any at the moment. Anyone questioning is seen as a selfish CT who does not care about anyone, unlike those following every single daft rule are seen as loving and giving. they know they make no sense but will still follow because governments will praise them for following daft rules and because they are scared to break away and question the daft rules in case they are accused of being selfish.

My area has always had very low numbers and yet we are now going to be in tier 2 stricter rules than before lockdown. Why is that? You telling me a city like London is a 2 when my area is also a 2. if we have come out of lockdown to even stricter rules then lockdowns don't work.
Tiers are just another name for lockdown

I'm about done with this BS.

I agree with some of what you say in the post.

But 99% of people are in tier 2 or 3 now. Hardly anyone was put in tier 1. Just Cornwall, Isle of Wight basically.

It's clear what they are trying to do here. And the reasons why they are bearing down hard on pretty much everyone more than they may have done if Christmas wasn't around the corner.

Boris and the experts basically admitted the plan the other day. A lot of this is intended to get the rates everywhere as low as possible before the 23rd of December is here and the Christmas dispensation comes into play.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
Some sort of skewed strategy definitely comes into play when the tier system is being decided.

Manchester has been in tier 2/3 for months, eventually our infection and death rates were starting to fall consistently.....then the figures in London started to rise again, amazingly, based on the London situation, the whole of England was then put into lockdown.

All of greater Manchester is now in tier 3 even though some areas have half the infection rate of other boroughs.

Unfortunately that's what happens when London based central government makes decisions for the whole of the country.
Not so sure. Liverpool is getting praise. And are in tier 2. Liverpool is obviously up North. Nowhere near London.

Liverpool was singled out for mass testing, Every citizen was offered the coronavirus test whether they had symptoms or not. Manchester and other northern areas have not yet been offered this.

That's why Liverpool is being hailed as a 'success story'.

JP · Burning up the forum

Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
Some sort of skewed strategy definitely comes into play when the tier system is being decided.

Manchester has been in tier 2/3 for months, eventually our infection and death rates were starting to fall consistently.....then the figures in London started to rise again, amazingly, based on the London situation, the whole of England was then put into lockdown.

All of greater Manchester is now in tier 3 even though some areas have half the infection rate of other boroughs.

Unfortunately that's what happens when London based central government makes decisions for the whole of the country.
Not so sure. Liverpool is getting praise. And are in tier 2. Liverpool is obviously up North. Nowhere near London.
Liverpool was singled out for mass testing, Every citizen was offered the coronavirus test whether they had symptoms or not. Manchester and other northern areas have not yet been offered this.
That's why Liverpool is being hailed as a 'success story'.

Others have apparently been offered it.

But even if that isn't true. The North/South divide. Clearly isn't there. Otherwise somewhere in the South would have been offered that type of testing first.

-- Edited by JP on Friday 27th of November 2020 04:13:02 PM

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
Some sort of skewed strategy definitely comes into play when the tier system is being decided.

Manchester has been in tier 2/3 for months, eventually our infection and death rates were starting to fall consistently.....then the figures in London started to rise again, amazingly, based on the London situation, the whole of England was then put into lockdown.

All of greater Manchester is now in tier 3 even though some areas have half the infection rate of other boroughs.

Unfortunately that's what happens when London based central government makes decisions for the whole of the country.
Not so sure. Liverpool is getting praise. And are in tier 2. Liverpool is obviously up North. Nowhere near London.
Liverpool was singled out for mass testing, Every citizen was offered the coronavirus test whether they had symptoms or not. Manchester and other northern areas have not yet been offered this.
That's why Liverpool is being hailed as a 'success story'.
Others have apparently been offered it.
But even if that isn't true. The North/South divide. Clearly isn't there. Otherwise somewhere in the South would have been offered that type of testing first.

-- Edited by JP on Friday 27th of November 2020 04:13:02 PM

Honestly JP, if you really think the N/S divide is a myth, you really don't know what's been happening since this virus started.......but you obviously do know what's going on as you have kept well up to date, which convinces me that you are in fact......a Southerner.

JP · Burning up the forum

Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
Some sort of skewed strategy definitely comes into play when the tier system is being decided.

Manchester has been in tier 2/3 for months, eventually our infection and death rates were starting to fall consistently.....then the figures in London started to rise again, amazingly, based on the London situation, the whole of England was then put into lockdown.

All of greater Manchester is now in tier 3 even though some areas have half the infection rate of other boroughs.

Unfortunately that's what happens when London based central government makes decisions for the whole of the country.
Not so sure. Liverpool is getting praise. And are in tier 2. Liverpool is obviously up North. Nowhere near London.
Liverpool was singled out for mass testing, Every citizen was offered the coronavirus test whether they had symptoms or not. Manchester and other northern areas have not yet been offered this.
That's why Liverpool is being hailed as a 'success story'.
Others have apparently been offered it.
But even if that isn't true. The North/South divide. Clearly isn't there. Otherwise somewhere in the South would have been offered that type of testing first.

-- Edited by JP on Friday 27th of November 2020 04:13:02 PM
Honestly JP, if you really think the N/S divide is a myth, you really don't know what's been happening since this virus started.......but you obviously do know what's going on as you have kept well up to date, which convinces me that you are in fact......a Southerner.

Well I could probably counter that idea as I just did in other ways as well. But I'm not going too. I'm sure you could counter it the other way as well.

Me personally I don't give a stuff where any person comes from. I just care about how they behave.

John Doe · Still Here!

Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
Some sort of skewed strategy definitely comes into play when the tier system is being decided.

Manchester has been in tier 2/3 for months, eventually our infection and death rates were starting to fall consistently.....then the figures in London started to rise again, amazingly, based on the London situation, the whole of England was then put into lockdown.

All of greater Manchester is now in tier 3 even though some areas have half the infection rate of other boroughs.

Unfortunately that's what happens when London based central government makes decisions for the whole of the country.
Not so sure. Liverpool is getting praise. And are in tier 2. Liverpool is obviously up North. Nowhere near London.
Liverpool was singled out for mass testing, Every citizen was offered the coronavirus test whether they had symptoms or not. Manchester and other northern areas have not yet been offered this.
That's why Liverpool is being hailed as a 'success story'.

Liverpool always seems to get special treatment for everything for some reason.

Maybe it's to calm them down.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
Some sort of skewed strategy definitely comes into play when the tier system is being decided.

Manchester has been in tier 2/3 for months, eventually our infection and death rates were starting to fall consistently.....then the figures in London started to rise again, amazingly, based on the London situation, the whole of England was then put into lockdown.

All of greater Manchester is now in tier 3 even though some areas have half the infection rate of other boroughs.

Unfortunately that's what happens when London based central government makes decisions for the whole of the country.
Not so sure. Liverpool is getting praise. And are in tier 2. Liverpool is obviously up North. Nowhere near London.
Liverpool was singled out for mass testing, Every citizen was offered the coronavirus test whether they had symptoms or not. Manchester and other northern areas have not yet been offered this.
That's why Liverpool is being hailed as a 'success story'.
Others have apparently been offered it.
But even if that isn't true. The North/South divide. Clearly isn't there. Otherwise somewhere in the South would have been offered that type of testing first.

-- Edited by JP on Friday 27th of November 2020 04:13:02 PM
Honestly JP, if you really think the N/S divide is a myth, you really don't know what's been happening since this virus started.......but you obviously do know what's going on as you have kept well up to date, which convinces me that you are in fact......a Southerner.
Well I could probably counter that idea as I just did in other ways as well. But I'm not going too. I'm sure you could counter it the other way as well.
Me personally I don't give a stuff where any person comes from. I just care about how they behave.

Me too, but we are not talking about how someone behaves, we are talking about the way they have been treated by the government since the pandemic began.

I know we both agreed that this government did a great job at first, it went downhill re the way the North was treated v the South quite a few weeks ago.

JP · Burning up the forum

Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
Some sort of skewed strategy definitely comes into play when the tier system is being decided.

Manchester has been in tier 2/3 for months, eventually our infection and death rates were starting to fall consistently.....then the figures in London started to rise again, amazingly, based on the London situation, the whole of England was then put into lockdown.

All of greater Manchester is now in tier 3 even though some areas have half the infection rate of other boroughs.

Unfortunately that's what happens when London based central government makes decisions for the whole of the country.
Not so sure. Liverpool is getting praise. And are in tier 2. Liverpool is obviously up North. Nowhere near London.
Liverpool was singled out for mass testing, Every citizen was offered the coronavirus test whether they had symptoms or not. Manchester and other northern areas have not yet been offered this.
That's why Liverpool is being hailed as a 'success story'.
Others have apparently been offered it.
But even if that isn't true. The North/South divide. Clearly isn't there. Otherwise somewhere in the South would have been offered that type of testing first.

-- Edited by JP on Friday 27th of November 2020 04:13:02 PM
Honestly JP, if you really think the N/S divide is a myth, you really don't know what's been happening since this virus started.......but you obviously do know what's going on as you have kept well up to date, which convinces me that you are in fact......a Southerner.
Well I could probably counter that idea as I just did in other ways as well. But I'm not going too. I'm sure you could counter it the other way as well.
Me personally I don't give a stuff where any person comes from. I just care about how they behave.
Me too, but we are not talking about how someone behaves, we are talking about the way they have been treated by the government since the pandemic began.
I know we both agreed that this government did a great job at first, it went downhill re the way the North was treated v the South quite a few weeks ago.

Why didn't somewhere in the South get offered the mass testing lateral flow testing scheme first?

But as I said I'm not getting into the N/S thing any further with you. We'll never agree there.

Twizzler · Burning up the forum

Anonymous wrote:
People saying "you don't care about the elderly" is just virtual signalling. I care more than you, just BS, you are just caring about those you are told to care about.

I care about all the elderly not just certain ones. I still cry thinking about all those elderly left in nursing homes crying at the windows wondering why they cannot see their loved ones. those who died never seeing them again. I cry thinking about all those elderly that died when idiots made the strange decision to release those with covid into nursing homes killing the elderly by the 1000s, then blamed the carers!
I care about all the people losing their homes, all of those losing their businesses while the large corporations are getting richer.

We have to weigh this up, we have to use common sense and there does not seem to be any at the moment. Anyone questioning is seen as a selfish CT who does not care about anyone, unlike those following every single daft rule are seen as loving and giving. they know they make no sense but will still follow because governments will praise them for following daft rules and because they are scared to break away and question the daft rules in case they are accused of being selfish.

My area has always had very low numbers and yet we are now going to be in tier 2 stricter rules than before lockdown. Why is that? You telling me a city like London is a 2 when my area is also a 2. if we have come out of lockdown to even stricter rules then lockdowns don't work.
Tiers are just another name for lockdown

I'm about done with this BS.

At least you’re not in tier 3

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
Some sort of skewed strategy definitely comes into play when the tier system is being decided.

Manchester has been in tier 2/3 for months, eventually our infection and death rates were starting to fall consistently.....then the figures in London started to rise again, amazingly, based on the London situation, the whole of England was then put into lockdown.

All of greater Manchester is now in tier 3 even though some areas have half the infection rate of other boroughs.

Unfortunately that's what happens when London based central government makes decisions for the whole of the country.
Not so sure. Liverpool is getting praise. And are in tier 2. Liverpool is obviously up North. Nowhere near London.
Liverpool was singled out for mass testing, Every citizen was offered the coronavirus test whether they had symptoms or not. Manchester and other northern areas have not yet been offered this.
That's why Liverpool is being hailed as a 'success story'.
Others have apparently been offered it.
But even if that isn't true. The North/South divide. Clearly isn't there. Otherwise somewhere in the South would have been offered that type of testing first.

-- Edited by JP on Friday 27th of November 2020 04:13:02 PM
Honestly JP, if you really think the N/S divide is a myth, you really don't know what's been happening since this virus started.......but you obviously do know what's going on as you have kept well up to date, which convinces me that you are in fact......a Southerner.
Well I could probably counter that idea as I just did in other ways as well. But I'm not going too. I'm sure you could counter it the other way as well.
Me personally I don't give a stuff where any person comes from. I just care about how they behave.
Me too, but we are not talking about how someone behaves, we are talking about the way they have been treated by the government since the pandemic began.
I know we both agreed that this government did a great job at first, it went downhill re the way the North was treated v the South quite a few weeks ago.

Why didn't somewhere in the South get offered the mass testing lateral flow testing scheme first?
But as I said I'm not getting into the N/S thing any further with you. We'll never agree there.

No we wont.

I think we may have had a conversation about Manchester being in Tier 2 and then 3 for months, about how the furlough scheme was due to end and the money was to be cut drastically as soon as it ended, but then as soon as London was placed in Tier 2....lo and behold the furlough scheme was extended till next spring.

Andy Burnham was fighting all along for fair play for the North ... we have had far more restrictions for many months ....I'm sure we have been down that road before though, so as you say, we wont agree.

-- Edited by Syl on Friday 27th of November 2020 06:27:56 PM

JP · Burning up the forum

Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
JP wrote:
Syl wrote:
Some sort of skewed strategy definitely comes into play when the tier system is being decided.

Manchester has been in tier 2/3 for months, eventually our infection and death rates were starting to fall consistently.....then the figures in London started to rise again, amazingly, based on the London situation, the whole of England was then put into lockdown.

All of greater Manchester is now in tier 3 even though some areas have half the infection rate of other boroughs.

Unfortunately that's what happens when London based central government makes decisions for the whole of the country.
Not so sure. Liverpool is getting praise. And are in tier 2. Liverpool is obviously up North. Nowhere near London.
Liverpool was singled out for mass testing, Every citizen was offered the coronavirus test whether they had symptoms or not. Manchester and other northern areas have not yet been offered this.
That's why Liverpool is being hailed as a 'success story'.
Others have apparently been offered it.
But even if that isn't true. The North/South divide. Clearly isn't there. Otherwise somewhere in the South would have been offered that type of testing first.

-- Edited by JP on Friday 27th of November 2020 04:13:02 PM
Honestly JP, if you really think the N/S divide is a myth, you really don't know what's been happening since this virus started.......but you obviously do know what's going on as you have kept well up to date, which convinces me that you are in fact......a Southerner.
Well I could probably counter that idea as I just did in other ways as well. But I'm not going too. I'm sure you could counter it the other way as well.
Me personally I don't give a stuff where any person comes from. I just care about how they behave.
Me too, but we are not talking about how someone behaves, we are talking about the way they have been treated by the government since the pandemic began.
I know we both agreed that this government did a great job at first, it went downhill re the way the North was treated v the South quite a few weeks ago.

Why didn't somewhere in the South get offered the mass testing lateral flow testing scheme first?
But as I said I'm not getting into the N/S thing any further with you. We'll never agree there.

No we wont.
I think we may have had a conversation about Manchester being in Tier 2 and then 3 for months, about how the furlough scheme was due to end and the money was to be cut drastically as soon as it ended, but then as soon as London was placed in Tier 2....lo and behold the furlough scheme was extended till next spring.
Andy Burnham was fighting all along for fair play for the North ... we have had far more restrictions for many months ....I'm sure we have been down that road before though, so as you say, we wont agree.

-- Edited by Syl on Friday 27th of November 2020 06:27:56 PM

Yep. And I'm not gonna repeat my side of it about Andy and all of that situation again. :D

Twizzler · Burning up the forum

JP wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
People saying "you don't care about the elderly" is just virtual signalling. I care more than you, just BS, you are just caring about those you are told to care about.

I care about all the elderly not just certain ones. I still cry thinking about all those elderly left in nursing homes crying at the windows wondering why they cannot see their loved ones. those who died never seeing them again. I cry thinking about all those elderly that died when idiots made the strange decision to release those with covid into nursing homes killing the elderly by the 1000s, then blamed the carers!
I care about all the people losing their homes, all of those losing their businesses while the large corporations are getting richer.

We have to weigh this up, we have to use common sense and there does not seem to be any at the moment. Anyone questioning is seen as a selfish CT who does not care about anyone, unlike those following every single daft rule are seen as loving and giving. they know they make no sense but will still follow because governments will praise them for following daft rules and because they are scared to break away and question the daft rules in case they are accused of being selfish.

My area has always had very low numbers and yet we are now going to be in tier 2 stricter rules than before lockdown. Why is that? You telling me a city like London is a 2 when my area is also a 2. if we have come out of lockdown to even stricter rules then lockdowns don't work.
Tiers are just another name for lockdown

I'm about done with this BS.

I agree with some of what you say in the post.
But 99% of people are in tier 2 or 3 now. Hardly anyone was put in tier 1. Just Cornwall, Isle of Wight basically.
It's clear what they are trying to do here. And the reasons why they are bearing down hard on pretty much everyone more than they may have done if Christmas wasn't around the corner.
Boris and the experts basically admitted the plan the other day. A lot of this is intended to get the rates everywhere as low as possible before the 23rd of December is here and the Christmas dispensation comes into play.

Lockdown was eased in Wales but COVID has gone up since easing lockdown, so it looks like

they are going back into lockdown from next Friday.

This is what will happen at Christmas because not everyone will do as they are told and their will be a spike

in infections, so in January or before we will be in another lockdown, all for a few days of seeing loved ones.

JP · Burning up the forum

Twizzler wrote:
JP wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
People saying "you don't care about the elderly" is just virtual signalling. I care more than you, just BS, you are just caring about those you are told to care about.

I care about all the elderly not just certain ones. I still cry thinking about all those elderly left in nursing homes crying at the windows wondering why they cannot see their loved ones. those who died never seeing them again. I cry thinking about all those elderly that died when idiots made the strange decision to release those with covid into nursing homes killing the elderly by the 1000s, then blamed the carers!
I care about all the people losing their homes, all of those losing their businesses while the large corporations are getting richer.

We have to weigh this up, we have to use common sense and there does not seem to be any at the moment. Anyone questioning is seen as a selfish CT who does not care about anyone, unlike those following every single daft rule are seen as loving and giving. they know they make no sense but will still follow because governments will praise them for following daft rules and because they are scared to break away and question the daft rules in case they are accused of being selfish.

My area has always had very low numbers and yet we are now going to be in tier 2 stricter rules than before lockdown. Why is that? You telling me a city like London is a 2 when my area is also a 2. if we have come out of lockdown to even stricter rules then lockdowns don't work.
Tiers are just another name for lockdown

I'm about done with this BS.

I agree with some of what you say in the post.
But 99% of people are in tier 2 or 3 now. Hardly anyone was put in tier 1. Just Cornwall, Isle of Wight basically.
It's clear what they are trying to do here. And the reasons why they are bearing down hard on pretty much everyone more than they may have done if Christmas wasn't around the corner.
Boris and the experts basically admitted the plan the other day. A lot of this is intended to get the rates everywhere as low as possible before the 23rd of December is here and the Christmas dispensation comes into play.
Lockdown was eased in Wales but COVID has gone up since easing lockdown, so it looks like
they are going back into lockdown from next Friday.
This is what will happen at Christmas because not everyone will do as they are told and their will be a spike
in infections, so in January or before we will be in another lockdown, all for a few days of seeing loved ones.

What the people do in specific Countries clearly must make a lot of difference. I could name some Countries that aren't doing too bad.

Although, this thing is bad again in many places right now.

No one, no Country. Can get million upon millions of people to keep doing the right stuff. That's what sucks. You just can't Police millions upon millions of people.

The best any of us can do is balance the risk way up our personal circumstances at Christmas. And don't do anything that seems too risky to us. Can't do much more. Like they said in the conference the other day don't hug and kiss particularly old or vulnerable people if you do decide to meet up at Christmas.