ChaoticMusings

Anonymous wrote:

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Rationalisation is a thought process that helps people cope with loss.  For the atheist it is easier to rationalise the death of an elderly person than it is for a younger person.  

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What has this to do with a belief system?

I am an atheist and several deaths in my life (particularly my Grandad) utterly devastated me. :(

JP wrote:

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I don't know. I would have thought if anything a death is "easier" for someone who really does genuinely believe in a God and an afterlife.

We know we are all going to die. If we believe in a God and the afterlife when someone very old dies we may well eventually think they've had a good long life and now they are in heaven.

However if a young person dies even those who believe in a God may start to question why have you taken this person so very young.

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 It's the natural order of things for old people to die.   You see the headlines, tragic death of 90 year old from Covid.  At 90 anything can carry you off, and what's the point in trying to keep someone that old alive  if they are ill.   That doesn't make it any less painful when they die, but a child's death is the worst because of it has all those years of promise ahead never to be fulfilled.  I think that's why people often grieve for animals so deeply...because they are like children.

I don't think it's easier for someone who  believes in the afterlife when they lose someone.   The hope that a soul lives on in another energy dimension never lessens the loss.   

John Doe wrote:

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Digger wrote:

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JP wrote:

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I don't know. I would have thought if anything a death is "easier" for someone who really does genuinely believe in a God and an afterlife.

We know we are all going to die. If we believe in a God and the afterlife when someone very old dies we may well eventually think they've had a good long life and now they are in heaven.

However if a young person dies even those who believe in a God may start to question why have you taken this person so very young.

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 It's the natural order of things for old people to die.   You see the headlines, tragic death of 90 year old from Covid.  At 90 anything can carry you off, and what's the point in trying to keep someone that old alive  if they are ill.   That doesn't make it any less painful when they die, but a child's death is the worst because of it has all those years of promise ahead never to be fulfilled.  I think that's why people often grieve for animals so deeply...because they are like children.

I don't think it's easier for someone who  believes in the afterlife when they lose someone.   The hope that a soul lives on in another energy dimension never lessens the loss.   

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I really wish I could believe our consciousness lived on in some form after we passed Digs, but sadly I think Homo sapiens is just like every other species that has swam, walked and flew throughout Earths long evolutionary history.

The brain dies and that's it (in my opinion).

-- Edited by John Doe on Thursday 3rd of December 2020 11:05:52 PM

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 You either open to belief or you can't.   Even the most dedicated mediums I know have doubts from time to time.   Then just when you think there can't be anything, something incredible happens to scotch that.  I do feel sorry for people who don't have any faith at all.   What a desolate place that must be.  But perhaps that's the karma being worked out.  Yep, I know you think I'm talking a load of old bollocks.   But I wish I could take you by the hand and lead you through my experiences.   I have a husband who was a non believer, a real cynic.   12 years of living with me has changed his mind.  

Digger wrote:

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JP wrote:

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I don't know. I would have thought if anything a death is "easier" for someone who really does genuinely believe in a God and an afterlife.

We know we are all going to die. If we believe in a God and the afterlife when someone very old dies we may well eventually think they've had a good long life and now they are in heaven.

However if a young person dies even those who believe in a God may start to question why have you taken this person so very young.

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 It's the natural order of things for old people to die.   You see the headlines, tragic death of 90 year old from Covid.  At 90 anything can carry you off, and what's the point in trying to keep someone that old alive  if they are ill.   That doesn't make it any less painful when they die, but a child's death is the worst because of it has all those years of promise ahead never to be fulfilled.  I think that's why people often grieve for animals so deeply...because they are like children.

I don't think it's easier for someone who  believes in the afterlife when they lose someone.   The hope that a soul lives on in another energy dimension never lessens the loss.   

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 I take your point. I did say "if anything" though. Because really nothing makes it "easier" at the time really.

John Doe wrote:

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Digger wrote:

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On another point, I sometimes wish I was a stalwart atheist because when terrible things happen in this world, I can believe that it's just nature.

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I remember reading a theory that belief in an afterlife is an evolutionary development to keep us going forward instead of sinking into despair at the pointless brutality of it all.

That would make sense as the Universe and Nature are not good or evil they are simply indifferent which in a way is far more desolate to think about.

Perhaps I lack that particular gene. :(

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What is a death experience?

I call it an “experience of death” because that's what it is. People report a unique cognitive experience in relation to death. They may have a perception of seeing their body and the doctors and nurses trying to revive them, yet feel very peaceful while observing. Some report a realization that they may have actually died.

Later they develop a perception or a sensation of being pulled towards a type of destination. During the experience, they review their life from birth, until death, and interestingly this review is based upon their humanity.

They don’t review their lives based on what people strive for, like a career, promotions, or an amazing vacation. Their perspective is focused on their humanity. They notice incidents where they lacked dignity, acted inappropriately towards others, or conversely, acted with humanity and kindness.

They re-experience and relive these moments, but also, what's fascinating, which sort of blows me away because I can't really explain it, is they also describe these experiences from the other person's perspective.

If they caused pain, they experience the same pain that other person felt, even if they didn't realize it at the time. They actually judge themselves. They suddenly realize why their actions were good or bad, and many claim to see the downstream consequences of their actions.

How do studies of cardiac arrest  inform the debate on the nature of consciousness?

Traditionally, researchers had proposed that mind or consciousness – our self - is produced from organized brain activity. However, nobody has ever been able to show how brain cells, which produce proteins, can generate something so different i.e. thoughts or consciousness. Interestingly, there has never been a plausible biological mechanism proposed to account for this.

Recently some researchers have started to raise the question that maybe your mind, your consciousness, your psyche, the thing that makes you, may not be produced by the brain. The brain might be acting more like an intermediary. It's not a brand new idea. They have argued that we have no evidence to show how brain cells or connections of brain cells could produce your thoughts, mind or consciousness.

The fact that people seem to have full consciousness, with lucid well-structured thought processes and memory formation from a time when their brains are highly dysfunctional or even nonfunctional is perplexing and paradoxical.

I do agree that this raises the possibility that the entity we call the mind or consciousness may not be produced by the brain. It’s certainly possible that maybe there's another layer of reality that we haven't yet discovered that's essentially beyond what we know of the brain, and which determines our reality.

So, I believe it is possible for consciousness to be an as of yet undiscovered scientific entity that may not necessarily be produced by synaptic activity in the brain.

 Robert Birchard, NYAS Staff

https://www.nyas.org/news-articles/academy-news/is-there-life-after-death/

What's interesting here is the theory that thought processes are not necessarily connected to the brain in the physical sense.   

Syl wrote:

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Here is a list of the vaccination programme due to start shortly in the UK.


https://www.ft.com/content/3096fd46-758a-48bd-819d-2919b0a91c8f

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 Decent summary. Apart from the guy who spoke about the Oxford vaccine appears to have an agenda going on. The figure isn't solely 62%. And actually very latest effectiveness figures state 70 to 90%. That guy mentioned 62% and went into no further details. They know how to get 90% from it. One full dose and half a dose potentially gives the 90. It's swings and roundabouts Oxford can be stored and transported, far, far, easier. Than Pfizer. And it's cheaper. 

And the same numpty also said it's unfortunate that the UK Government have bought more of the less effective one. What a fool, stocks were bought months and months ago, when no one knew how things would turn out. And clearly you's expect any Country to at least initially buy more of their own one.

All "experts" should just stick to the facts and explaining all the details. 

-- Edited by JP on Saturday 5th of December 2020 04:26:30 PM

-- Edited by JP on Saturday 5th of December 2020 04:26:56 PM

Maddog wrote:

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Fauci says y'all are moving to fast and haven't tested enough.

I'm not as impressed with him as a lot of folks.

Guess we shall see.

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 He later apologised on BBC news here. Apparently he didn't mean it to come across the way it sounded. :D He has great faith in the MHRA after all. :D He should do they are ranked right up there with the FDA.

I think that during this crisis too many experts have at times behaved as though they are the duly elected ones.