ChaoticMusings

Maddog · Go Outside

RE: Anti-vaxxer musician dies from Covid aged 40, after saying he couldn't get ill because he exercised

John Doe · Still Here!

Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
"Avail yourself to it"....or face the consequences.

We all have the choice.

I would not want a vulnerable loved one of mine to be in very close contact with someone (a carer or a medic)) who has the potential to spread a deadly disease, not when there is a simple solution.

The solution helps. I'm sure your labour leader took precautions and caught it anyway.

Anyone in a health related field would still be taking precautions too, vaccinated or not.

In fact the nurse friend of mine said getting the vaccines means less mask wearing and PPE for her. That's one of the driving forces for compliance. It's a giant pain in the ass to be unvaccinated and work there, because of all the additional hoops that you have to jump through to keep patients a little safer.
So if it's a giant pain in the arse, why do you think some people are refusing to be vaccinated?
I would bet the vast majority of the people holding out, if they are parents, didn't think twice before they allowed their kids to have the usual childhood inoculations.
I would also bet as soon as they want to travel, and vaccination proof is required, they will then get the jabs, (and I know of a few people who have already done this)
They won't get the jab to help stop the virus, but as soon as it curtails their chance of going abroad...off they trot,
So selfish.

Very selfish to put other people in danger.
If I had a sick or elderly relative who caught COVID and died from an Antivaxxer medical professional I would be absolutely fucking furious.
You think people that work around the sick are selfish?

These people literally wiped the ass of people with Covid-19, while we were hiding in our homes. Well, maybe not me, but a lot of people.

This is why I like nurses so much. They don't judge for the most part. Unlike the non medical folks who do.

They are if they refuse to take a vaccine that would make them and their patients far safer.

Especially as medical professionals they should know better than to believe any old conspiracy shite on the net.

-- Edited by John Doe on Thursday 28th of October 2021 09:53:16 PM

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Maddog wrote:

Some folks don't want to introduce that vaccine into their bodies. They see the risk being as large as the reward, especially if they already had the virus.

No doubt the government is converting many to change their minds by denying basic freedoms to people who won't fall in line.

In fact, that might be the reason many over here are opposing it.

Remember, we are an immigrant nation compromised of people that generally don't like being ordered about like subjects. That's why we left where we came from.

Research has shown repeatedly that the risks from the vaccination are miniscule compared to the risks of catching the virus.

I agree that some people are refusing the vaccine because they refuse to be told what to do by governments, but sometimes we have to follow the guidance, or ultimately laws, for the good of society, and in this case, protecting yourself and others...is for the good of society.

It's all very well being a rebel if the only person your behaviour affects is yourself.

Maddog · Go Outside

John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
"Avail yourself to it"....or face the consequences.

We all have the choice.

I would not want a vulnerable loved one of mine to be in very close contact with someone (a carer or a medic)) who has the potential to spread a deadly disease, not when there is a simple solution.

The solution helps. I'm sure your labour leader took precautions and caught it anyway.

Anyone in a health related field would still be taking precautions too, vaccinated or not.

In fact the nurse friend of mine said getting the vaccines means less mask wearing and PPE for her. That's one of the driving forces for compliance. It's a giant pain in the ass to be unvaccinated and work there, because of all the additional hoops that you have to jump through to keep patients a little safer.
So if it's a giant pain in the arse, why do you think some people are refusing to be vaccinated?
I would bet the vast majority of the people holding out, if they are parents, didn't think twice before they allowed their kids to have the usual childhood inoculations.
I would also bet as soon as they want to travel, and vaccination proof is required, they will then get the jabs, (and I know of a few people who have already done this)
They won't get the jab to help stop the virus, but as soon as it curtails their chance of going abroad...off they trot,
So selfish.

Very selfish to put other people in danger.
If I had a sick or elderly relative who caught COVID and died from an Antivaxxer medical professional I would be absolutely fucking furious.
You think people that work around the sick are selfish?

These people literally wiped the ass of people with Covid-19, while we were hiding in our homes. Well, maybe not me, but a lot of people.

This is why I like nurses so much. They don't judge for the most part. Unlike the non medical folks who do.
They are if they refuse to take a vaccine that would make them and their patients far safer.
Especially as medical professionals they should know better than to believe any old conspiracy shite on the net.

-- Edited by John Doe on Thursday 28th of October 2021 09:53:16 PM

Who said they were learning it from a conspiracy site.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Some folks don't want to introduce that vaccine into their bodies. They see the risk being as large as the reward, especially if they already had the virus.
No doubt the government is converting many to change their minds by denying basic freedoms to people who won't fall in line.
In fact, that might be the reason many over here are opposing it.
Remember, we are an immigrant nation compromised of people that generally don't like being ordered about like subjects. That's why we left where we came from.
Research has shown repeatedly that the risks from the vaccination are miniscule compared to the risks of catching the virus.
I agree that some people are refusing the vaccine because they refuse to be told what to do by governments, but sometimes we have to follow the guidance, or ultimately laws, for the good of society, and in this case, protecting yourself and others...is for the good of society.
It's all very well being a rebel if the only person your behaviour affects is yourself.

They are wearing what they are required to wear. No one working in a hospital in Texas us breaking any law, if they have an exemption. With that exemption they have to wear more PPE. Their patients are still protected.

Maddog · Go Outside

And really, the "your selfish" shit is getting old. It's a lame attempt to shame people.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Maddog wrote:
And really, the "your selfish" shit is getting old. It's a lame attempt to shame people.

Tough....If shaming people makes them think again about refusing the virus, it's worked.

Though I suspect, as I have said all along, when they want to go abroad, have entry into certain venues, simply when not being vaccinated gets in the way of their lifestyle....they will soon be rolling their sleeves up.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
And really, the "your selfish" shit is getting old. It's a lame attempt to shame people.
Tough....If shaming people makes them think again about refusing the virus, it's worked.
Though I suspect, as I have said all along, when they want to go abroad, have entry into certain venues, simply when not being vaccinated gets in the way of their lifestyle....they will soon be rolling their sleeves up.

Or it makes them dig their heels in more, while making you look like a moral crusader.

The carrot often works better than the stick.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

The carrot should be that they are protecting the vulnerable.

John Doe · Still Here!

Syl wrote:
The carrot should be that they are protecting the vulnerable.

The stick should be a big fucking boot.

Vulnerable and old people v psychopathic nutters?

Only one winner in my humble opinion

Maddog · Go Outside

John Doe wrote:
Syl wrote:
The carrot should be that they are protecting the vulnerable.
The stick should be a big fucking boot.
Vulnerable and old people v psychopathic nutters?
Only one winner in my humble opinion

What if I think you're the psychopathic nutter?

That's the problem with the stick. It all depends on who's wielding it.

John Doe · Still Here!

Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Syl wrote:
The carrot should be that they are protecting the vulnerable.
The stick should be a big fucking boot.
Vulnerable and old people v psychopathic nutters?
Only one winner in my humble opinion

What if I think you're the psychopathic nutter?

That's the problem with the stick. It all depends on who's wielding it.

I am the one having been fully vaccinated and wearing a mask to stop others from dying.

It's not rocket science.

-- Edited by John Doe on Friday 29th of October 2021 01:13:02 AM

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
The carrot should be that they are protecting the vulnerable.

I think that's right.

That's why we have pretty good compliance when we present the facts, and allow people the freedom to make their own informed decisions.

But the minute you tell people who don't trust the government (and rightfully so) that the government is going to force them to do something or they will lose some freedom, you feed that distrust of the government.

If you chase a dog with a stick, don't be surprised if they run away.

Maddog · Go Outside

John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Syl wrote:
The carrot should be that they are protecting the vulnerable.
The stick should be a big fucking boot.
Vulnerable and old people v psychopathic nutters?
Only one winner in my humble opinion

What if I think you're the psychopathic nutter?

That's the problem with the stick. It all depends on who's wielding it.
I am the one having been fully vaccinated and wearing a mask to stop others from dying.
It's not rocket science.

-- Edited by John Doe on Friday 29th of October 2021 01:13:02 AM

I mean in general.

Wanting to use the stick on people can bite you in the ass.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
The carrot should be that they are protecting the vulnerable.
I think that's right.

That's why we have pretty good compliance when we present the facts, and allow people the freedom to make their own informed decisions.

But the minute you tell people who don't trust the government (and rightfully so) that the government is going to force them to do something or they will lose some freedom, you feed that distrust of the government.

If you chase a dog with a stick, don't be surprised if they run away.

Unfortunately here, in some areas, a high number of carers have refused the jab. Appealing to their good nature, which was exactly what happened for months, hasn't worked.

Sometimes stricter measures have to be brought in.

Examples are smoking indoors in public places and wearing seat belts in cars, a lot of people vowed they would not follow the rules...now they are accepted without question.

Not because people slavishly follow government rulings, but because it benifits society as a whole.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
The carrot should be that they are protecting the vulnerable.
I think that's right.

That's why we have pretty good compliance when we present the facts, and allow people the freedom to make their own informed decisions.

But the minute you tell people who don't trust the government (and rightfully so) that the government is going to force them to do something or they will lose some freedom, you feed that distrust of the government.

If you chase a dog with a stick, don't be surprised if they run away.
Unfortunately here, in some areas, a high number of carers have refused the jab. Appealing to their good nature, which was exactly what happened for months, hasn't worked.
Sometimes stricter measures have to be brought in.
Examples are smoking indoors in public places and wearing seat belts in cars, a lot of people vowed they would not follow the rules...now they are accepted without question.
Not because people slavishly follow government rulings, but because it benifits society as a whole.

Yeah, eventually the, power of the state wears you down.

They know that.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

I can't think of many rules or laws that dont benefit society as a whole...none that affect me anyway.

Maybe I just don't want to be that rebel without a cause.

John Doe · Still Here!

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
The carrot should be that they are protecting the vulnerable.
I think that's right.

That's why we have pretty good compliance when we present the facts, and allow people the freedom to make their own informed decisions.

But the minute you tell people who don't trust the government (and rightfully so) that the government is going to force them to do something or they will lose some freedom, you feed that distrust of the government.

If you chase a dog with a stick, don't be surprised if they run away.
Unfortunately here, in some areas, a high number of carers have refused the jab. Appealing to their good nature, which was exactly what happened for months, hasn't worked.
Sometimes stricter measures have to be brought in.
Examples are smoking indoors in public places and wearing seat belts in cars, a lot of people vowed they would not follow the rules...now they are accepted without question.
Not because people slavishly follow government rulings, but because it benifits society as a whole.
Yeah, eventually the, power of the state wears you down.

They know that.

The 'power of the state' with regard to seatbelts has saved countless lives once it was required by law, also drink driving.

Not all laws are for oppressing the individual's right, almost all are for the common good.

-- Edited by John Doe on Friday 29th of October 2021 06:55:09 PM

Maddog · Go Outside

John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
The carrot should be that they are protecting the vulnerable.
I think that's right.

That's why we have pretty good compliance when we present the facts, and allow people the freedom to make their own informed decisions.

But the minute you tell people who don't trust the government (and rightfully so) that the government is going to force them to do something or they will lose some freedom, you feed that distrust of the government.

If you chase a dog with a stick, don't be surprised if they run away.
Unfortunately here, in some areas, a high number of carers have refused the jab. Appealing to their good nature, which was exactly what happened for months, hasn't worked.
Sometimes stricter measures have to be brought in.
Examples are smoking indoors in public places and wearing seat belts in cars, a lot of people vowed they would not follow the rules...now they are accepted without question.
Not because people slavishly follow government rulings, but because it benifits society as a whole.
Yeah, eventually the, power of the state wears you down.

They know that.
The 'power of the state' with regard to seatbelts has saved countless lives once it was required by law, also drink driving.
Not all laws are for oppressing the individual's right, almost all are for the common good.

-- Edited by John Doe on Friday 29th of October 2021 06:55:09 PM

Banning the sale of alcohol in my country was for the common good too.

I'll bet I could look into your life amd ban some activities that would make you healthier.

For your own good and all.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
I can't think of many rules or laws that dont benefit society as a whole...none that affect me anyway.

Maybe I just don't want to be that rebel without a cause.

No you don't. It's not in your nature.