ChaoticMusings

John Doe · Still Here!

Manchester Arena bomber's brother leaves the country.

Digger · Admin

I haven't read the details, but it's typical of the UK

Magica · Go Outside

I agree. We are bloody stupid!

John Doe · Still Here!

Magica wrote:
I agree. We are bloody stupid!

How the hell was the possibility of this heartless bastard fleeing the country not anticipated?

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Pathetic, but is anyone surprised?
Why was his passport not confiscated? Surely that would have been the obvious thing to do.

John Doe · Still Here!

Syl wrote:
Pathetic, but is anyone surprised?
Why was his passport not confiscated? Surely that would have been the obvious thing to do.

Perhaps that would have been be seen as 'Islamophobic'?

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Pathetic, but is anyone surprised?
Why was his passport not confiscated? Surely that would have been the obvious thing to do.

Don't know about there, but I don't think you can lose your passport unless your charged over here.

This guy was never charged.

He sounds shady based on the article, but the cops had 4 years to charge him and they haven't. He's as free to leave the country as anyone else I would imagine.

John Doe · Still Here!

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Pathetic, but is anyone surprised?
Why was his passport not confiscated? Surely that would have been the obvious thing to do.
Don't know about there, but I don't think you can lose your passport unless your charged over here.

This guy was never charged.

He sounds shady based on the article, but the cops had 4 years to charge him and they haven't. He's as free to leave the country as anyone else I would imagine.

Because in the UK every one of these bastards is immune until they actually commit an atrocity.

Your lot seem to be more pro-active.

Date: Oct 20 11:14 AM, 2021

John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Pathetic, but is anyone surprised?
Why was his passport not confiscated? Surely that would have been the obvious thing to do.
Don't know about there, but I don't think you can lose your passport unless your charged over here.

This guy was never charged.

He sounds shady based on the article, but the cops had 4 years to charge him and they haven't. He's as free to leave the country as anyone else I would imagine.
Because in the UK every one of these bastards is immune until they actually commit an atrocity.
Your lot seem to be more pro-active.

If they didn’t have anything to charge him with after 4 years he could be innocent. Do you get like this about all relatives of criminals or just the select few?

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Pathetic, but is anyone surprised?
Why was his passport not confiscated? Surely that would have been the obvious thing to do.
Don't know about there, but I don't think you can lose your passport unless your charged over here.

This guy was never charged.

He sounds shady based on the article, but the cops had 4 years to charge him and they haven't. He's as free to leave the country as anyone else I would imagine.

They have taken the passport away from the bombers friend preventing him leaving....only recently though, and I haven't checked to see whether he was charged with anything yet.

I'm sure, given the history and in the circumstances...they could have detained the brother. Withholding evidence would have been a good place to start.

He (brother) had constantly refused to co'operate with the enquiry so had been ordered to attend court, his passport should have been taken to ensure he turned up.

It was inevitable he would scurry off like a rat down a drainpipe given the chance.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Pathetic, but is anyone surprised?
Why was his passport not confiscated? Surely that would have been the obvious thing to do.
Don't know about there, but I don't think you can lose your passport unless your charged over here.

This guy was never charged.

He sounds shady based on the article, but the cops had 4 years to charge him and they haven't. He's as free to leave the country as anyone else I would imagine.
They have taken the passport away from the bombers friend preventing him leaving....only recently though, and I haven't checked to see whether he was charged with anything yet.
I'm sure, given the history and in the circumstances...they could have detained the brother. Withholding evidence would have been a good place to start.
He (brother) had constantly refused to co'operate with the enquiry so had been ordered to attend court, his passport should have been taken to ensure he turned up.
It was inevitable he would scurry off like a rat down a drainpipe given the chance.

I know our laws are different, but we are never under any obligation to incriminate ourselves..

And our rights are pretty clear. Either charge me or leave me alone.

He had been questioned and interrogated by the police. He had been investigated for 4 years.

That's always frustrating in cases like this but the government has the responsibility to charge people, if they want to detain them or remove another rights from them..

Maddog · Go Outside

Anonymous wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Pathetic, but is anyone surprised?
Why was his passport not confiscated? Surely that would have been the obvious thing to do.
Don't know about there, but I don't think you can lose your passport unless your charged over here.

This guy was never charged.

He sounds shady based on the article, but the cops had 4 years to charge him and they haven't. He's as free to leave the country as anyone else I would imagine.
Because in the UK every one of these bastards is immune until they actually commit an atrocity.
Your lot seem to be more pro-active.
If they didn’t have anything to charge him with after 4 years he could be innocent. Do you get like this about all relatives of criminals or just the select few?

This reminds me of the case in Florida where the missing girl was found in Wyoming. Now the boyfriend is missing..

Surely the parents have some idea where he is. But without proof, they are as free as me to move about the country and world. They are under no obligation to prove they don't know. The State is under an obligation to prove they do know, if they want to detain them.

John Doe · Still Here!

Anonymous wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Pathetic, but is anyone surprised?
Why was his passport not confiscated? Surely that would have been the obvious thing to do.
Don't know about there, but I don't think you can lose your passport unless your charged over here.

This guy was never charged.

He sounds shady based on the article, but the cops had 4 years to charge him and they haven't. He's as free to leave the country as anyone else I would imagine.
Because in the UK every one of these bastards is immune until they actually commit an atrocity.
Your lot seem to be more pro-active.
If they didn’t have anything to charge him with after 4 years he could be innocent. Do you get like this about all relatives of criminals or just the select few?

Oh don't try that one with me again.

This scumbag has refused to co-operate and give evidence unless he is given immunity from prosecution and has now fled the country when ordered to by the court.

Does he sound innocent to you?

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Pathetic, but is anyone surprised?
Why was his passport not confiscated? Surely that would have been the obvious thing to do.
Don't know about there, but I don't think you can lose your passport unless your charged over here.

This guy was never charged.

He sounds shady based on the article, but the cops had 4 years to charge him and they haven't. He's as free to leave the country as anyone else I would imagine.
They have taken the passport away from the bombers friend preventing him leaving....only recently though, and I haven't checked to see whether he was charged with anything yet.
I'm sure, given the history and in the circumstances...they could have detained the brother. Withholding evidence would have been a good place to start.
He (brother) had constantly refused to co'operate with the enquiry so had been ordered to attend court, his passport should have been taken to ensure he turned up.
It was inevitable he would scurry off like a rat down a drainpipe given the chance.

I know our laws are different, but we are never under any obligation to incriminate ourselves..

And our rights are pretty clear. Either charge me or leave me alone.

He had been questioned and interrogated by the police. He had been investigated for 4 years.

That's always frustrating in cases like this but the government has the responsibility to charge people, if they want to detain them or remove another rights from them..

The law is often an ass...as this proves.

The friend tried to leave the country, he was detained and his passport was held.

The bombers brother was in the exact same position....both had been ordered to appear in court on Thursday, unfortunately the brother was quicker off the mark....and off he scurries, safe no doubt to plan more atrocities.

He should have been watched and arrested as he tried to leave the country.

It's a case of shutting the stable door once the rat has bolted.

John Doe · Still Here!

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Pathetic, but is anyone surprised?
Why was his passport not confiscated? Surely that would have been the obvious thing to do.
Don't know about there, but I don't think you can lose your passport unless your charged over here.

This guy was never charged.

He sounds shady based on the article, but the cops had 4 years to charge him and they haven't. He's as free to leave the country as anyone else I would imagine.
They have taken the passport away from the bombers friend preventing him leaving....only recently though, and I haven't checked to see whether he was charged with anything yet.
I'm sure, given the history and in the circumstances...they could have detained the brother. Withholding evidence would have been a good place to start.
He (brother) had constantly refused to co'operate with the enquiry so had been ordered to attend court, his passport should have been taken to ensure he turned up.
It was inevitable he would scurry off like a rat down a drainpipe given the chance.

I know our laws are different, but we are never under any obligation to incriminate ourselves..

And our rights are pretty clear. Either charge me or leave me alone.

He had been questioned and interrogated by the police. He had been investigated for 4 years.

That's always frustrating in cases like this but the government has the responsibility to charge people, if they want to detain them or remove another rights from them..
The law is often an ass...as this proves.

The friend tried to leave the country, he was detained and his passport was held.
The bombers brother was in the exact same position....both had been ordered to appear in court on Thursday, unfortunately the brother was quicker off the mark....and off he scurries, safe no doubt to plan more atrocities.
He should have been watched and arrested as he tried to leave the country.

It's a case of shutting the stable door once the rat has bolted.

In a nutshell.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Pathetic, but is anyone surprised?
Why was his passport not confiscated? Surely that would have been the obvious thing to do.
Don't know about there, but I don't think you can lose your passport unless your charged over here.

This guy was never charged.

He sounds shady based on the article, but the cops had 4 years to charge him and they haven't. He's as free to leave the country as anyone else I would imagine.
They have taken the passport away from the bombers friend preventing him leaving....only recently though, and I haven't checked to see whether he was charged with anything yet.
I'm sure, given the history and in the circumstances...they could have detained the brother. Withholding evidence would have been a good place to start.
He (brother) had constantly refused to co'operate with the enquiry so had been ordered to attend court, his passport should have been taken to ensure he turned up.
It was inevitable he would scurry off like a rat down a drainpipe given the chance.

I know our laws are different, but we are never under any obligation to incriminate ourselves..

And our rights are pretty clear. Either charge me or leave me alone.

He had been questioned and interrogated by the police. He had been investigated for 4 years.

That's always frustrating in cases like this but the government has the responsibility to charge people, if they want to detain them or remove another rights from them..
The law is often an ass...as this proves.

The friend tried to leave the country, he was detained and his passport was held.
The bombers brother was in the exact same position....both had been ordered to appear in court on Thursday, unfortunately the brother was quicker off the mark....and off he scurries, safe no doubt to plan more atrocities.
He should have been watched and arrested as he tried to leave the country.

It's a case of shutting the stable door once the rat has bolted.

OK, I read about the friend. I guess they have been what we call subpoenaed.

His lawyers have already said he's not going to talk.

I guess it's gives the appearance that the government is leaving no stones unturned, but I doubt they have anything on either of these two guys, or they would already be in jail awaiting trial.

Does my gut tell me these guys helped or at least knew something was up? Yup.

Do I think these guys will talk and incriminate themselves?

Not if their lawyers are worth a shit..

So after they testify and say nothing, then what?

Maddog · Go Outside

So I'm reading a bit more. Another brother was convicted and will be in his 80s if he ever gets out. So it appears that with evidence, the courts are able to lock these folks up for life.

With evidence being the operative phrase.

Someone once described the burden of proof being so high on the prosecution here , that many guilty walk free, in order to make sure that the innocent don't get imprisoned. Even with that high burden on the state, the innocent get put in prison.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Hopefully, something will be found without them having to talk.
But if it isn't....deport the bastards, and that would include the Abedis parents who have also refused to help with the ongoing enquiries.

John Doe · Still Here!

Syl wrote:
Hopefully, something will be found without them having to talk.
But if it isn't....deport the bastards, and that would include the Abedis parents who have also refused to help with the ongoing enquiries.

Oh but we can't do that Syl, that is against their sacred human rights...

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

My grandson worked at the Arena back then. His pitch was about in the foyer about 2 feet from where the bomb was detonated.
He was off that night, thank God.
His supervisor was injured and hospitalised, but she made it.