ChaoticMusings

Maddog · Go Outside

RE: Household energy bills could soar to £500 pm...while the rich gets richer.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

OK...we obviously look at this in two different ways.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
OK...we obviously look at this in two different ways.

So you don't think the supply issues are what are driving the price increases?

I'm looking at the root problem, not a band aid that ignores it.

You also have a dwindling amount of nuclear power and your scheduled to close more reactors.

So your energy prices are going through the roof, while you sit on a large supply of gas and are closing nuclear power plants.

You're pouring salt in the fields and wondering why the crops are failing. The solution is to fix the fields, not hand out cash printed by the B of E out of thin air..

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
OK...we obviously look at this in two different ways.
So you don't think the supply issues are what are driving the price increases?

I'm looking at the root problem, not a band aid that ignores it.

You also have a dwindling amount of nuclear power and your scheduled to close more reactors.

So your energy prices are going through the roof, while you sit on a large supply of gas and are closing nuclear power plants.

You're pouring salt in the fields and wondering why the crops are failing. The solution is to fix the fields, not hand out cash printed by the B of E out of thin air..

Providing a band-aid is better than getting an infection.

I think several factors, all coming together, have brought about this huge increase that's going to hit us....the biggest factor is, as usual, greed.

Our governments...going back to the Thatcher era, seemed to prefer to sell off everything we have, and buy in everything we need, we haven't invested in providing for ourselves...so who's fault is that?

We (the public) are just the consumer who pays through the nose when the governments cock things up....which is why the government should plough some of the money they are sitting on back to the people who, through no fault of theirs, are being hit with bills they just can't afford.

Maddog · Go Outside

Your government hasn't sold all of that gas your sitting on, nor has it sold any nuclear power plants.

If it was greed, they would be sinking holes in your front yard looking for gas.

Instead, they would rather buy it from other countries. That's not greed. It's piss poor planning.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

The big companies are making unheard of profits because they are charging so much....that's greed.

I agree...the two goverments over the last decades have not ensured the UK can provide the energy we need...the mines were closed when Thatcher was PM.....nothing seems to have replaced them, so we need to rely on other countries.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
The big companies are making unheard of profits because they are charging so much....that's greed.

I agree...the two goverments over the last decades have not ensured the UK can provide the energy we need...the mines were closed when Thatcher was PM.....nothing seems to have replaced them, so we need to rely on other countries.

Some companies are doing great, others not so much.

Its cyclical. Both of our countries are staring down a giant recession in an attempt to reign in inflation..

That's why the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve are raising interests rates amd trying to put the brakes on our economies. All of that printed money has created a mess.

Eventually they will succeed and everything will crash.

It always does. And the politicians blame everyone but themselves.

But, the absolute worst thing that can be done in an economy running way too hot is to interject more money into it..

This is the mess we are in. The central banks are trying to pull money out of the economy to bring prices down, while politicians are trying buy voters by interjecting more, and making things worse.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Just as a matter of interest, how much are your household energy bills predicted to rise to?

We are told to expect between 350 and 500% increases, which will go on for at least the next two winters.

I know our petrol prices are far higher than yours, we compared them recently.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

United Kingdom Gasoline prices, 01-Aug-2022

Litre ........Gallon
£1.828.... £6.920

USA Gasoline prices, 01-Aug-2022

Litre........ Gallon
$1.180.... $4.467

In £££'s your gallon works out at £3.68, almost half the price we pay at the pumps.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Just as a matter of interest, how much are your household energy bills predicted to rise to?

We are told to expect between 350 and 500% increases, which will go on for at least the next two winters.

I know our petrol prices are far higher than yours, we compared them recently.

Ours (Texas) are up for the summer.

I'm hearing people say that the rates are doubling.

I have a small home, with natural gas, so my bills are pretty low..

But, I live in a state with low regulations and a lot of gas and oil too.

We also have the most wind production in the country.

Some solar and nuclear too.

We are straining the hell out of the system though because of the heat and population growth..

One thing we don't do as a state is ban things like fracking. Getting that stuff out of the ground is important until a different system replaces it..

And, Biden has decided that if he wants a 2nd term, he better get our country's production numbers up.

He even went to Saudi and begged them to increase their supply..

I suggest the UK start fracking, like yesterday..

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
United Kingdom Gasoline prices, 01-Aug-2022

Litre ........Gallon
£1.828.... £6.920

USA Gasoline prices, 01-Aug-2022

Litre........ Gallon
$1.180.... $4.467

In £££'s your gallon works out at £3.68, almost half the price we pay at the pumps.

You're difference is mostly taxes.

Mexico charges less tax than we do and are paying close to $3.00.

For the record, prices near me are about $3.50 now..

Our prices have dropped over a dollar per gallon during the past 6 weeks..

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Yes, I know we pay more in taxes...probably for everything, not just petrol.

Which is why so many working class people here need the help.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Yes, I know we pay more in taxes...probably for everything, not just petrol.

Which is why so many working class people here need the help.

Stop taxing them so much. They are the most hurt by all of those taxes..

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Yes, I know we pay more in taxes...probably for everything, not just petrol.

Which is why so many working class people here need the help.
Stop taxing them so much. They are the most hurt by all of those taxes..

I think the majority of us do know that Maddog.

Which is why so many need financial help, which you seem to think isn't helpful....believe me, it is.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Yes, I know we pay more in taxes...probably for everything, not just petrol.

Which is why so many working class people here need the help.
Stop taxing them so much. They are the most hurt by all of those taxes..
I think the majority of us do know that Maddog.
Which is why so many need financial help, which you seem to think isn't helpful....believe me, it is.

The financial help doesn't happen in a vacuum.

We are paying for all of the help from the past.. That's why folks need help now.

If it were possible to help people with cash, without wrecking an economy, that's what every country would do. But that's not possible. Printing money will hurt people in the long run..

Look at Sri Lanka right now. What is happening there is quite predictable, yet their leaders led them into this mess..

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Why would our government print money to help people towards paying their energy bills?
They earn billions in taxing the company that is making billions in profit.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Why would our government print money to help people towards paying their energy bills?
They earn billions in taxing the company that is making billions in profit.

Because that money is already spent.

If you want some sort of new program, it has to be funded.

That will be done by new taxes or new borrowing.

The Bank of England is raising rates furiously to get on top of inflation. That is done to pull money out of the economy. Turning around and putting it back in will add to the problems that are driving inflation..

This is why inflation is so terrible. The cure is painful, especially for the poor..

The B of E is literally trying to make people a little more poor as a cure for inflation making them poor because of skyrocketing price increases..

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Inflation is soon set to hit 15% according to some experts, interest rates are now 1.75%.
I remember when we first bought our house interest rates soared to over 15%.

Great for savers, not so great for everyone else.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

For gas, we are on a variable tariff....it's suited us over the last couple of years.
Yesterday we had an email from our supplier, British gas....encouraging us to switch immediately to the fixed rate tariff, which, from October, actually works out exactly double what we have paid over the last year.

When we add on the Electricity bill for the next year, we (if we went on the fixed tariff) would be paying almost £5000 for the year.
Our combined bills have usually been no more than £1000.

That makes a 500% increase.

Maddog · Go Outside

The increases are terrible.

But there are two choices.

Hand out cash which helps in the short run, but increase prices even more.

Or.

Get supplies up, which will drive down prices.

We have done the latter with fuel anyway, and our prices have turned a corner on that particular product.

Overall, our economy, like yours, is suffering from all of that cash created to "help" the economy deal with covid shutdowns.

What you have described explains the problem with politicians throwing money at people. It will be inflationary at some point, and the increased costs of everything are more than the money handed out. People wind up worse off.

And folks expect the process repeated. A process that created the problem in the first place..