ChaoticMusings

Date: Nov 29 2:50 AM, 2023

RE: Is Democracy Dead or just Dying?

Date: Nov 29 3:16 AM, 2023

To add to my previos post...They will have representation in parliament very soon as the independant MP's that have been thrown out of Starmer Labour will join reform and in the future all of the left wing MP's in Labour will defect making it at the very least the third party in politics and more likely to become the new oppsition.

If the Tory votes collapse at the next election then Starmer Labour will win and the new oppostion will be Reform.

Reform are now inviting members to apply for administration jobs and to stand in local elections and parliamentary ones.

The left created the NHS along with many other things that made our society better. and it was very naive of the right and Centrists to think that they would be left out in the cold forever and who had built the biggest political force in Europe under Corbyn and had forced a hung parliament at the previous election election.Polling has revealed that 60% of the British public wants an alternative to the one party state that we have now and where they all have the same policies.

Date: Nov 29 8:05 AM, 2023

Maddog wrote:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

Speaking of a ‘dictatorship’ followed by a ‘monarchy’, I’d like to ask you what your take is on the Papaya Pol Pot somehow managing to sit his ass down behind the Resolute Desk again? (despite his 91 felony counts, across multiple States)

And if he does, could that mean the end of the American Experiment for the foreseeable future?

Maddog · Go Outside

Vam wrote:
Maddog wrote:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."
Speaking of a ‘dictatorship’ followed by a ‘monarchy’, I’d like to ask you what your take is on the Papaya Pol Pot somehow managing to sit his ass down behind the Resolute Desk again? (despite his 91 felony counts, across multiple States)
And if he does, could that mean the end of the American Experiment for the foreseeable future?

He's a massive threat no doubt. He doesn't believe rules apply to him. On top of that, he has no more fiscal restraint than Biden.

I'm embarrassed about how bad our country has slid in terms of who we support as leaders. I'm embarrassed about how we worship people and parties. I'm embarrassed about how stupid the typical person is in terms of their government. I'm talking very intelligent people in law, medicine, science, etc.

I guess the thinkers get destroyed anymore for airing what they think and all we hear are the drumbeats of the angry mobs.

I live in a country where tens of thousands will show up to support Hamas, Trump or a Kardashian, but not an intellectual that challenges their thinking..

This is quite a nasty thing to say, but the best thing for our country is for him to become incapacitated in some manner.

Date: Nov 30 9:18 AM, 2023

@ MD … “On top of that, he has no more fiscal restraint than Biden.”

Sure, but at least Biden tried to spend money for the greater good - Infrastructure, CHIPS Act, Insulin price-capping, BBB, 13 million jobs created, etc… Whereas President Psycho added 8 trillion to your deficit - and for what??!

Fwiw, I’ve always thought Biden was the right guy at exactly right time. But I don’t agree with his run for a second term.

Anyway, I appreciate you responding so honestly. I sense you’re really feeling it! And yeah, I’m in total agreement with your last sentence. Nature taking its course might be a way to break the impasse, not to mention collective psychosis going on.

It‘s worth bearing in mind there’s no way he could have caused so much mayhem & division on his own. If/when he croaks, the question is - who’ll be next to step up?

Date: Nov 30 9:58 PM, 2023

Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
What should the typical American listen to and read to make them well informed?
They have to value being informed on the topic.

How do they know all about who Taylor Swift is dating, yet can't name either of their senators?

I think it's more than watching the news.

I don't watch CNN, but I'm very well informed. I don't watch any cable news, to be honest, but I read all sorts of sources..

The BBC constantly promote Taylor Swift as world news. Often the BBC have her as a lead story or on their homepage about once a week. Always thought this was strange. From what you mentioned it seems that Taylor Swift also has the American Media writing about her. I assume she must be some sort of feminist activist as well as a singer. Britney Spears is another one that the BBC promote as world news but not so often. Apparently she was some sort of victim of a controlling patriarchy.

Date: Nov 30 10:41 PM, 2023

Maddog wrote:
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

"... The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage."

Wikipedia: "This text popularized as part of a longer piece commenting on the 2000 US presidential election .... no reliable record of Alexander Tytler's having written any part of the text. It actually comprises two parts which did not begin to appear together until the 1970s. The first paragraph's earliest known appearance is in an op-ed piece by Elmer T. Peterson in the 9 December 1951 The Daily Oklahoman, which attributed it to Tytler. The list beginning "From bondage to spiritual faith" is commonly known as the "Tytler Cycle" or the "Fatal Sequence". Its first known appearance was in a 1943 speech by Henning W Prentis Jr, president of the Armstrong Cork Company and former president of the National Association of Manufacturers, delivered at the February 1943 convocation of the General Alumni Society of the University of Pennsylvania. The speech was subsequently published under the titles "The Cult of Competency" and "Industrial Management in a Republic".

Alexander Fraser Tytler (1747 – 1813): Scottish advocate, judge, writer and historian who was a Professor of Universal History, and Greek and Roman Antiquities at the University of Edinburgh.

Quote attributed to Aristotle: Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny.

It seems that the quotes have their origin in Ancient Greek discussion of Government. The Greeks had a lot of experience in Government given most cities started out as independent or semi-independent entities with their own forms of government.

It seems to me that you're at the "apathy" stage = given up with engaging in American Democracy due to despondency with it. The "Woke Culture" is sort of creating a dependency mindset = that one is a victim and the state or the haves have to do give the victims reparations of some sort = money, more money, an influential position.

Date: Nov 30 11:27 PM, 2023

Vam wrote:
Speaking of a ‘dictatorship’ followed by a ‘monarchy’, I’d like to ask you what your take is on the Papaya Pol Pot somehow managing to sit his ass down behind the Resolute Desk again? (despite his 91 felony counts, across multiple States)
And if he does, could that mean the end of the American Experiment for the foreseeable future?

When Trump was in political power (four years only) what policies of his indicated to you that he was a Dictator akin to Papaya Pol Pot?

When Trump won the 2016 US Presidential Election the Democrats and the Mainstream Media pushed the idea that Trump was an illegitimate President claiming the evil Putin meddled with the 2016 US election and the FBI investigated it.

The 2020 Presidential Elections were held under conditions of lockdowns, mail in ballots, BLM (George Floyd) marches, general hysteria.

Since Biden has got into power we have had the so called "unprovoked Russian invasion of Ukraine" and an effective NATO-Russian war currently contained in Ukraine. Talk that China is a threat and something needs to be done.

Date: Nov 30 11:46 PM, 2023

Anonymous wrote:
Check this out and i joined today
https://transformpolitics.uk/
A new political force is being born

OUR CORE PRINCIPLES

1) A left party, of and for the working class in all its diversity, seeking to redistribute wealth and power from the elite to the people.

2) Is Eco-socialist, supporting transformative political, social and economic change in order to build a truly sustainable world and achieve climate justice.

3) Is internationalist, opposing war, imperialism and colonialism, welcoming migrants and standing in solidarity with oppressed people everywhere.

4) Is feminist and anti-racist, fighting for a world where social injustices including racism, xenophobia, ableism, homophobia, transphobia and the oppression of women have been eradicated.

5) ...

6) ...

7) ...

8) Offers voters a socialist alternative ...

9) ...

10) builds meaningful relationships with ... trade unions, community and campaign groups, social justice movements and left organisations outside Britain.

Seems similar to international socialism of Trotsky with feminism and social justice.

Maddog · Go Outside

Vam wrote:
@ MD … “On top of that, he has no more fiscal restraint than Biden.”
Sure, but at least Biden tried to spend money for the greater good - Infrastructure, CHIPS Act, Insulin price-capping, BBB, 13 million jobs created, etc… Whereas President Psycho added 8 trillion to your deficit - and for what??!
Fwiw, I’ve always thought Biden was the right guy at exactly right time. But I don’t agree with his run for a second term.
Anyway, I appreciate you responding so honestly. I sense you’re really feeling it! And yeah, I’m in total agreement with your last sentence. Nature taking its course might be a way to break the impasse, not to mention collective psychosis going on.
It‘s worth bearing in mind there’s no way he could have caused so much mayhem & division on his own. If/when he croaks, the question is - who’ll be next to step up?

The greater good? Please, that's a stupid comment politicians use to justify their irresponsibility and citizens should never use that term to describe what politicians are doing..

You can't be for they greater good by running up that kind of debt..

It's irresponsible and ends up costing the citizens more than is ever doled out in irresponsible handouts.

It's done for the good of the politicians.

Biden nor Trump, were or ever will be the right guy for any job.

I have no idea who will step up next, but I know they won't be worth a warm bucket of vomit if they come through the Republican or Democratic primary process..

Maddog · Go Outside

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Check this out and i joined today
https://transformpolitics.uk/
A new political force is being born

OUR CORE PRINCIPLES
1) A left party, of and for the working class in all its diversity, seeking to redistribute wealth and power from the elite to the people.
2) Is Eco-socialist, supporting transformative political, social and economic change in order to build a truly sustainable world and achieve climate justice.
3) Is internationalist, opposing war, imperialism and colonialism, welcoming migrants and standing in solidarity with oppressed people everywhere.
4) Is feminist and anti-racist, fighting for a world where social injustices including racism, xenophobia, ableism, homophobia, transphobia and the oppression of women have been eradicated.
5) ...
6) ...
7) ...
8) Offers voters a socialist alternative ...
9) ...
10) builds meaningful relationships with ... trade unions, community and campaign groups, social justice movements and left organisations outside Britain.

Seems similar to international socialism of Trotsky with feminism and social justice.

Sounds like typical left wing authoritarianism..

I want nothing to do with that nonsense, and if I were in a country like that they would deem me an enemy of the people and send me to a re education camp or line me up against a wall.

jackthelad · Musing at the Chaos

Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Check this out and i joined today
https://transformpolitics.uk/
A new political force is being born

OUR CORE PRINCIPLES
1) A left party, of and for the working class in all its diversity, seeking to redistribute wealth and power from the elite to the people.
2) Is Eco-socialist, supporting transformative political, social and economic change in order to build a truly sustainable world and achieve climate justice.
3) Is internationalist, opposing war, imperialism and colonialism, welcoming migrants and standing in solidarity with oppressed people everywhere.
4) Is feminist and anti-racist, fighting for a world where social injustices including racism, xenophobia, ableism, homophobia, transphobia and the oppression of women have been eradicated.
5) ...
6) ...
7) ...
8) Offers voters a socialist alternative ...
9) ...
10) builds meaningful relationships with ... trade unions, community and campaign groups, social justice movements and left organisations outside Britain.

Seems similar to international socialism of Trotsky with feminism and social justice.
Sounds like typical left wing authoritarianism..

I want nothing to do with that nonsense, and if I were in a country like that they would deem me an enemy of the people and send me to a re education camp or line me up against a wall.

I read those core principals the other day and straight off thought immature student union socialist protest type politics and because of that they'll get absolutely nowhere.

Maddog · Go Outside

jackthelad wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Check this out and i joined today
https://transformpolitics.uk/
A new political force is being born

OUR CORE PRINCIPLES
1) A left party, of and for the working class in all its diversity, seeking to redistribute wealth and power from the elite to the people.
2) Is Eco-socialist, supporting transformative political, social and economic change in order to build a truly sustainable world and achieve climate justice.
3) Is internationalist, opposing war, imperialism and colonialism, welcoming migrants and standing in solidarity with oppressed people everywhere.
4) Is feminist and anti-racist, fighting for a world where social injustices including racism, xenophobia, ableism, homophobia, transphobia and the oppression of women have been eradicated.
5) ...
6) ...
7) ...
8) Offers voters a socialist alternative ...
9) ...
10) builds meaningful relationships with ... trade unions, community and campaign groups, social justice movements and left organisations outside Britain.

Seems similar to international socialism of Trotsky with feminism and social justice.
Sounds like typical left wing authoritarianism..

I want nothing to do with that nonsense, and if I were in a country like that they would deem me an enemy of the people and send me to a re education camp or line me up against a wall.
I read those core principals the other day and straight off thought immature student union socialist protest type politics and because of that they'll get absolutely nowhere.

They could get somewhere, at the barrel of a gun.

That's how it always starts. We're all going to play nice with each other based on the rules of the rulers, or else.

That's the problem with collectivism. Those that don't want to opt in are punished.