ChaoticMusings

Syl wrote:

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Maddog, one more thing. Generally in the US your health relies on your bank balance, you pay expensive insurance and you get a good service.

But what about the millions who can't afford it?

Here, there have been debates about people who have to choose between eating or heating, but it's taken for granted if a person needs medical care, they will be seen and treated.

Dentistry here can be quite expensive even though it's subsidised by the NHS, many people can't afford to get regular health checks for their teeth.
I dread to think how these people would cope if they couldn't afford to see a Dr, or had a car accident, or needed urgent medical care for an unexpected illness.

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 People get excellent service when the government pays for it too, because it's all the same doctors.

 

And let's be honest, the government isn't as tight with its money as an insurance company.  The government can't go bankrupt..

 

And we subsidize millions of private insurance policies. 

 

We have a sizeable chunk of uninsured people but they tend to be young, healthy and making decent money.  

 

They choose not to buy insurance and spend that money on other things.  

 

That's the major difference between us and most European countries.

 

They are forced to buy health insurance. We're not. 

I will admit there is another group that has issues. People with expensive, pre existing conditions, covered with insurance from their employer (most Americans are covered this way).

They can have issues with leaving that job and getting covered.

They can't be dropped as long as they keep their job. Their problem comes of they try to buy their own policy (like I, and all self employed people). It can get very expensive.

Of course if they aren't making a lot of money, their insurance will be subsidized.

But once the start getting in a higher income bracket, they can get hammered..

Syl wrote:

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Maddog wrote:

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Syl wrote:

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However, getting back to the OP....I doubt many in England and Wales will be sailing through arranged appointments now and in the coming weeks, due to the junior doctors strike, no doubt followed by senior Dr's and consultants, as happened last year.

"Thousands of doctors walked off their jobs in Britain on Wednesday, the start of a six-day strike over pay that was set to be the longest in the history of the state-funded National Health Service.

Managers said tens of thousands scheduled appointments and operations will be canceled during the walkout across England and Wales by junior doctors, those in the first years of their careers. The doctors, who form the backbone of hospital and clinic care, plan to stay off the job until 7 a.m. on Tuesday."

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 You need a tax base of young workers growing as fast the old folks straining the system..

 

You keep looking at young immigrants as an expense,  but they are also the revenue source for all government programs, as the pasty white folks in the UK, like they pasty white folks throughout Europe, didn't create enough taxpayers. 

 

The NHS was set up when everyone had 4 kids that grew up, paid taxes, and supported moms care into her 70s. 

 

Dad was dead at 65, so he didn't strain the system. 

 

Now you have a group of folks that didn't create taxpayers, aging out and being an expense, without creating taxpayers to support them..

 

Its going to get worse in the next 30 years. 

 

Its amazing how many childless people I know under 50..

 

It was almost unheard of in my generation. 

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 Not only immigrants.

And like most Brits, I welcome controlled immigration, for people who come here to contribute.

 

 

These figures obviously don't include the estimated 1.2 million illegals who have settled here.

 

 

• In 2022, 22% of working age people in England, Scotland and Wales were economically inactive – this means they were out of work and not looking for a job
• 21% of white people were economically inactive, compared with 26% of people from all other ethnic groups combined
• the combined Pakistani and Bangladeshi ethnic group had the highest rate of economic inactivity (33%), and the white ‘other’ group had the lowest (15%)
• in every region, white people had a lower rate of economic inactivity than people from all other ethnic groups combined
• women were more likely to be economically inactive than men in every ethnic group except for the mixed ethnic group
• the biggest gap between men and women was in the combined Pakistani and Bangladeshi ethnic group, where 48% of women and 19% of men were economically inactive.

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/work-pay-and-benefits/unemployment-and-economic-inactivity/economic-inactivity/latest/

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 And I have to admit, that your immigration system rewards the economically inactive.  

 

We have an immigration problem, but it's more of just flat out chaos..

 

The immigrants that come here aren't coming for benefits.  

 

They are here to work their asses off..

 

Whether it's paying for medical care or benefits, you eventually run out of other people's money. 

 

I've heard something to that effect in the past. 😉

-- Edited by Syl on Saturday 6th of January 2024 01:04:46 PM

Maddog wrote:

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"Immigrants make up nearly 20% of the US workforce — just over 30 out of 168 million — and participate in the labor force at a higher rate than native-born workers, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics."


I don't know how to get your immigrants to participate more in the your system.

It's almost impossible to substantially modify a cradle to grave welfare state once it becomes entrenched.

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 I don't know either, other than to control immigration and not give the work shy a free ride, but I think maybe that boat has already sailed.

Syl wrote:

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Maddog wrote:

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"Immigrants make up nearly 20% of the US workforce — just over 30 out of 168 million — and participate in the labor force at a higher rate than native-born workers, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics."


I don't know how to get your immigrants to participate more in the your system.

It's almost impossible to substantially modify a cradle to grave welfare state once it becomes entrenched.

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 I don't know either, other than to control immigration and not give the work shy a free ride, but I think maybe that boat has already sailed.

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 I remember when Ben moved over there. 

 

He couldn't work for the first year or so because of some silly regulation. 

 

He's a college educated person fluent in a "similar" language and he was covered by NHS, but couldn't even contribute personally. His wife had to for him..

 

 

 

 

Maddog wrote:

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Syl wrote:

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Maddog wrote:

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"Immigrants make up nearly 20% of the US workforce — just over 30 out of 168 million — and participate in the labor force at a higher rate than native-born workers, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics."


I don't know how to get your immigrants to participate more in the your system.

It's almost impossible to substantially modify a cradle to grave welfare state once it becomes entrenched.

---

 I don't know either, other than to control immigration and not give the work shy a free ride, but I think maybe that boat has already sailed.

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 I remember when Ben moved over there. 

 

He couldn't work for the first year or so because of some silly regulation. 

 

He's a college educated person fluent in a "similar" language and he was covered by NHS, but couldn't even contribute personally. His wife had to for him..

 

 

 

 

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 No one has to contribute mate. There are no checks no paperwork to sign .

Maddog wrote:

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Syl wrote:

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Maddog wrote:

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"Immigrants make up nearly 20% of the US workforce — just over 30 out of 168 million — and participate in the labor force at a higher rate than native-born workers, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics."


I don't know how to get your immigrants to participate more in the your system.

It's almost impossible to substantially modify a cradle to grave welfare state once it becomes entrenched.

---

 I don't know either, other than to control immigration and not give the work shy a free ride, but I think maybe that boat has already sailed.

---

 I remember when Ben moved over there. 

 

He couldn't work for the first year or so because of some silly regulation. 

 

He's a college educated person fluent in a "similar" language and he was covered by NHS, but couldn't even contribute personally. His wife had to for him..

 

 

 

 

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 The 'Right to work' laws need changing.

Thousands of immigrants could be earning and paying contributions, daft red tape prevents them doing this....the law needs updating.

Syl wrote:

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Maddog wrote:

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Syl wrote:

---

Maddog wrote:

---

"Immigrants make up nearly 20% of the US workforce — just over 30 out of 168 million — and participate in the labor force at a higher rate than native-born workers, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics."


I don't know how to get your immigrants to participate more in the your system.

It's almost impossible to substantially modify a cradle to grave welfare state once it becomes entrenched.

---

 I don't know either, other than to control immigration and not give the work shy a free ride, but I think maybe that boat has already sailed.

---

 I remember when Ben moved over there. 

 

He couldn't work for the first year or so because of some silly regulation. 

 

He's a college educated person fluent in a "similar" language and he was covered by NHS, but couldn't even contribute personally. His wife had to for him..

 

 

 

 

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 The 'Right to work' laws need changing.

Thousands of immigrants could be earning and paying contributions, daft red tape prevents them doing this....the law needs updating.

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 Agreed. 

 

But common sense is so difficult with government. 

 

It's why my general position leans towards taking this responsibility out of their hands. 

Maddog wrote:

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jackthelad wrote:

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Maddog wrote:

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jackthelad wrote:

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Maddog wrote:

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Syl wrote:

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Maddog wrote:

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"Immigrants make up nearly 20% of the US workforce — just over 30 out of 168 million — and participate in the labor force at a higher rate than native-born workers, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics."


I don't know how to get your immigrants to participate more in the your system.

It's almost impossible to substantially modify a cradle to grave welfare state once it becomes entrenched.

---

 I don't know either, other than to control immigration and not give the work shy a free ride, but I think maybe that boat has already sailed.

---

 I remember when Ben moved over there. 

 

He couldn't work for the first year or so because of some silly regulation. 

 

He's a college educated person fluent in a "similar" language and he was covered by NHS, but couldn't even contribute personally. His wife had to for him..

 

 

 

 

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 No one has to contribute mate. There are no checks no paperwork to sign .

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 You don't pay a tax taken out of income? 

 

How is NHS funded? 

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 You just said Ben didn't have an income I said that didn't matter.

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 So how do people without an income contribute to NHS? 

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 Some don't but the hospital or the chemist shop have no way of knowing.

If you buy a Mars bar a pair of shoes a pig a car you pay tax.

There are people who earn cash in the hand money and quite often a considerable amount and never pay any tax their entire lives because they cheat the system.

It used to be rife but it's more difficult now but what matters is the doctor the hospital the pharmacist have no idea and no interest in what you may or may not have paid.

 

-- Edited by jackthelad on Saturday 6th of January 2024 07:56:22 PM