ChaoticMusings

jackthelad · Musing at the Chaos

The NHS.

Maddog · Go Outside

jackthelad wrote:
How much does healthcare cost the individual in countries with a universal healthcare system? Would you change it for the "American system"?
No sane person wants the “American system”. I used to live in Texas. Now I live in Spain. Here are my numbers:

In 2016 in Texas, my direct, out-of-pocket cost for healthcare was $30,000. This was $1000/month premium (for a crappy bronze BCBS plan), $7650 deductible, and 20% copay. By the end of the year, my contribution was $30K.

In 2018 in Spain, my direct, out-of-pocket cost for healthcare was €2408. This was €159/month to participate in the NHS (I never worked here and paid taxes so I don’t get the NHS for free), plus my costs for medicine (as a non-EU citizen I have to pay for my meds, which are about 1/8 the cost they were in the US).

So why would I choose $30,000 over €2408? Oh, and the quality of care is much better in Spain, too. There’s a reason Spain is ranked #7 in the world and the US is #37.

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-- Edited by jackthelad on Monday 1st of April 2024 07:24:17 PM

-- Edited by jackthelad on Monday 1st of April 2024 07:26:40 PM

A bronze plan for an individual wouldn't cost $1000 a month. A Gold plan might..

Now, if you're living in Spain and not paying taxes there, I imagine the system would be cheaper.

Conversely, one could live in Texas, never work and get on Medicare because you have no income. Then it's all basically free.

I don't know if a foreigner could do that, but I guess I could.

I'm a single person, pay about $700 a month and will spend maybe $500 this year on other medical bills..

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

That's incredibly expensive and out of the reach of the average person here.

Our average wage is £36000 pa, after tax and NI, approx £28000.
The average mortgage repayment is around £16000, work out how impossible that would be for Mr/Mrs average.
To pay around £7000 for medical insurance would be impossible for the average man without getting into serious dept.

jackthelad · Musing at the Chaos

Syl wrote:

That's incredibly expensive and out of the reach of the average person here.

Our average wage is £36000 pa, after tax and NI, approx £28000.
The average mortgage repayment is around £16000, work out how impossible that would be for Mr/Mrs average.
To pay around £7000 for medical insurance would be impossible for the average man without getting into serious dept.

But i's not a problem according to Maddog.

Pay nothing you'll still get treated and you won't go bankrupt and lose your house... despite the glaring evidence otherwise.

People won't even phone an ambulance because of fear of the bill!

People won't make doctors appointments because of fear of the bill!

People are getting sicker because of fear of the bills!

jackthelad · Musing at the Chaos

US man stages $1 bank robbery to get state healthcare

Unemployed and without health insurance, man in North Carolina has himself arrested in order to receive treatment

It was not perhaps the most obvious way of getting a bad back, arthritis and a dodgy foot seen to. But if you're unemployed in North Carolina with no health insurance, there is no obvious way.
www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jun/21/verone-one-dollar-robbery-healthcare

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:

That's incredibly expensive and out of the reach of the average person here.

Our average wage is £36000 pa, after tax and NI, approx £28000.
The average mortgage repayment is around £16000, work out how impossible that would be for Mr/Mrs average.
To pay around £7000 for medical insurance would be impossible for the average man without getting into serious dept.

I make more than average.

Our government subsidizes plans for those that make an average amount or less..

People get health care plans for $50 per month if they are on the lower end of earnings.

But yes, in the US you can very easily pay more for healthcare while paying much less for other things (like taxes, housing, gas, food). Our service is better (most of us anyway) and our medical professionals make more money..

Maddog · Go Outside

jackthelad wrote:
US man stages $1 bank robbery to get state healthcare

Unemployed and without health insurance, man in North Carolina has himself arrested in order to receive treatment

It was not perhaps the most obvious way of getting a bad back, arthritis and a dodgy foot seen to. But if you're unemployed in North Carolina with no health insurance, there is no obvious way.
www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jun/21/verone-one-dollar-robbery-healthcare

Maybe he will get some mental health treatment too..

Tell me Jack. What do you think happens to a homeless dude that walks into the county hospital here?

A person with no job, no money, maybe covered in sores amd reeking of death from sleeping in their own piss and vomit?

Do you think they get turned away to die on the sidewalk?

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

It's natural to think your way is better...especially if you earn more than the average, the 'I'm all right Jack' approach is as common here (since the Thatcher era) as it is in the US.

All I know is, given the knee and hip replacements I have had since I retired, one eye op done and one in the offing, and other bits and pieces I have had done in the last 4 or 5 years, I am (on the whole) satisfied with the treatments I have had, and I am many thousands better of than what I would be had I lived in the USA.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
It's natural to think your way is better...especially if you earn more than the average, the 'I'm all right Jack' approach is as common here (since the Thatcher era) as it is in the US.

All I know is, given the knee and hip replacements I have had since I retired, one eye op done and one in the offing, and other bits and pieces I have had done in the last 4 or 5 years, I am (on the whole) satisfied with the treatments I have had, and I am many thousands better of than what I would be had I lived in the USA.

Better or not, I'm just correcting myths.

People that earn less than me have the same care as me, with much lower premiums..

Much like your NI, what you pay is based on what you earn. The treatment is the same.

Now, unlike your NI, there are people that also choose to go without coverage they could afford because its optional.

I have a buddy who had about half his faced removed and just finished chemo..

He made good money but chose to go without coverage. His treatment will now be paid by the taxpayers of Dallas County. He's gone through hell, but never once complained about his level of care..

jackthelad · Musing at the Chaos

These people Mads will be billed so the taxpayer can get their money back.
That debt will follow them for life.
If what you're saying holds a grain of truth your mates must think you're pretty dumb paying out all that money just to get the same treatment they got for free!

jackthelad · Musing at the Chaos

Most people who are uninsured don’t receive their care for free or even at a lesser charge, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF). In fact, just 27% of the uninsured receive such price breaks. To make matters worse, hospitals often charge uninsured patients two to four times more than what health insurers and public programs typically pay for hospital services, KFF says. Without health insurance, you could be on the hook for thousands of dollars in medical bills. Your bills could be so substantial as to be financially ruinous.
Informative read>>>> www.forbes.com/advisor/health-insurance/what-happens-if-you-dont-have-health-insurance/~:text=If%20you%20don't%20have%20health%20insurance%2C%20you're,even%20be%20forced%20into%20bankruptcy.

Maddog · Go Outside

jackthelad wrote:
These people Mads will be billed so the taxpayer can get their money back.
That debt will follow them for life.
If what you're saying holds a grain of truth your mates must think you're pretty dumb paying out all that money just to get the same treatment they got for free!

He may get some bills. He can work out some sort of repayment plan if he needs to. Or he can blow it off and let them chase him a few years. Unless he gets a huge chunk of money from a rich uncle, they cant touch him, because he's not worth much financially. Where insurance helps is seeing regular doctors for basic care. They don't have to see you like a hospital does and they can demand payment up front. That sort of care prevents bigger problems down the road. That's why it's smart to bite the bullet and get insurance, especially if you're a little older..

Folks in their 20s and 30s go without insurance as their are more fun things to spend that money on. They don't go to the doctor except once every couple of years when they are sick and figure they won't need a knee replacement any time soon.

Now my buddy is at the county hospital. It's designed to provide care to those without insurance..

Maddog · Go Outside

jackthelad wrote:
Most people who are uninsured don’t receive their care for free or even at a lesser charge, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF). In fact, just 27% of the uninsured receive such price breaks. To make matters worse, hospitals often charge uninsured patients two to four times more than what health insurers and public programs typically pay for hospital services, KFF says. Without health insurance, you could be on the hook for thousands of dollars in medical bills. Your bills could be so substantial as to be financially ruinous.
Informative read>>>> www.forbes.com/advisor/health-insurance/what-happens-if-you-dont-have-health-insurance/~:text=If%20you%20don't%20have%20health%20insurance%2C%20you're,even%20be%20forced%20into%20bankruptcy.

You're assuming the uninsured are poor..

They often aren't. It's a choice for many of them..

jackthelad · Musing at the Chaos

The American health system has massive problems dealing with millions of Americans many of whom have some kind of insurance but the death panels and for profit system that the rest of the western world did away with generations ago are huge but the medical insurance and pharma lot are very powerful so the chances of America joining the rest of the modern world anytime soon are zero.
Typically American propaganda fed to American people is as strong as ever!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1490134/

-- Edited by jackthelad on Tuesday 2nd of April 2024 09:17:21 PM

jackthelad · Musing at the Chaos

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1490134/

jackthelad · Musing at the Chaos

When yo or a loved one are seriously ill the last thing you need to worry about if finances and a roof over your head!
No wonder America are positioned 11th in the global health scores!
www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/medical-debt-what-do-when-you-cant-pay/

-- Edited by jackthelad on Tuesday 2nd of April 2024 09:31:13 PM

jackthelad · Musing at the Chaos

U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective, 2022: Accelerating Spending, Worsening Outcomes

In the previous edition of U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective, we reported that people in the United States experience the worst health outcomes overall of any high-income nation.1 Americans are more likely to die younger, and from avoidable causes, than residents of peer countries.

Highlights
Health care spending, both per person and as a share of GDP, continues to be far higher in the United States than in other high-income countries. Yet the U.S. is the only country that doesn’t have universal health coverage.
The U.S. has the lowest life expectancy at birth, the highest death rates for avoidable or treatable conditions, the highest maternal and infant mortality, and among the highest suicide rates.
The U.S. has the highest rate of people with multiple chronic conditions and an obesity rate nearly twice the OECD average.
Americans see physicians less often than people in most other countries and have among the lowest rate of practicing physicians and hospital beds per 1,000 population.
Screening rates for breast and colorectal cancer and vaccination for flu in the U.S. are among the highest, but COVID-19 vaccination trails many nations.
www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2022

Phil · Comment More

My partner suffered two mini-strokes (I saved her twice) and a heart attack but was let home (she wanted to I did not) within a few hours. I know they are incredibly busy but that still does not sit right with me. I bet of we had crossed on a fucking boat the red carpet would have been rolled out.

jackthelad · Musing at the Chaos

Which U.S. States Have the Best Healthcare?
The Commonwealth Fund’s 2022 Scorecard on State Health System Performance reveals that affordability is an ongoing concern for healthcare in the United States. Premature deaths from heart disease, diabetes, and drug overdoses remain an ongoing problem. Visitors to the United States will need an international health plan to have their medical care covered.

States With the Best Healthcare Systems
Hawaii
Massachusetts
Connecticut
Washington
Vermont

States With the Worst-Rated Healthcare Systems
Mississippi
Oklahoma
West Virginia
Texas
Missouri

www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/~:text=What%20country%20has%20the%20best,best%20healthcare%20are%20listed%20below.

jackthelad · Musing at the Chaos

Please if there's anything you can do to keep the UK in the modern world don't let the public schoolboys privatise the NHS!