Digger wrote:

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I think people look for reasons why someone can perpetrate such a vile crime.   It's as though they must find mental health issues, or some excuse that explains it all when the simple fact is the guy is evil.   Either that or something evil is attached to him.   

If you look back, there's loads of kids who hit puberty and suddenly change and go on to commit heinous acts for apparently no reason.   And not just kids from broken homes.   Are people born bad?   I think they are.   It just takes time to develop.

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 I think it's a combination of nature and nurture, plus being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If Hindley had not met Brady, would those children be alive today.

The kids Venables and Thompson would not have abducted little Jamie Bulger if they hadn't  been friends at school. 

Obviously killers who act alone don't need a partner in crime, but maybe being brought up in a different place by different people he could have turned out differently.

Syl wrote:

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Magica wrote:

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Killer up in court for sentencing. Cried he was unwell, diddums, went to hospital, nothing wrong. The old I'm ill trick.

Hope he gets life til he dies, nothing else will do.

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 Unless they can wrangle around the law and make an exception, he can't be given a full life sentence because he was only 17 when he committed his act.

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 I'm sure they can get round that.  No way can be ever come out!  They'll get him in prison.

Syl wrote:

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Digger wrote:

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I think people look for reasons why someone can perpetrate such a vile crime.   It's as though they must find mental health issues, or some excuse that explains it all when the simple fact is the guy is evil.   Either that or something evil is attached to him.   

If you look back, there's loads of kids who hit puberty and suddenly change and go on to commit heinous acts for apparently no reason.   And not just kids from broken homes.   Are people born bad?   I think they are.   It just takes time to develop.

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 I think it's a combination of nature and nurture, plus being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

If Hindley had not met Brady, would those children be alive today.

The kids Venables and Thompson would not have abducted little Jamie Bulger if they hadn't  been friends at school. 

Obviously killers who act alone don't need a partner in crime, but maybe being brought up in a different place by different people he could have turned out differently.

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 No.  He's an evil little shit.  It's that simple.   I get sick to death of people trying to make excuses for murderous nutters just because they are either kids or young people.    The other glaring problem is nobody in the know how acted on the red flags.  Then we get the public 'kumbaya' gatherings, candle vigils and 'lessons learned' and then it happens again and again and again.

It's sickening and utterly avoidable in the majority of cases.   And they should stop insulting people with mental health issues by lumping this particular type of killer with them.   They don't have 'mental health' issues.  They are psychotic insane monsters.

it's just been revealed that one of the kids was stabbed 122 times.    

Digger wrote:

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Syl wrote:

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Digger wrote:

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I think people look for reasons why someone can perpetrate such a vile crime.   It's as though they must find mental health issues, or some excuse that explains it all when the simple fact is the guy is evil.   Either that or something evil is attached to him.   

If you look back, there's loads of kids who hit puberty and suddenly change and go on to commit heinous acts for apparently no reason.   And not just kids from broken homes.   Are people born bad?   I think they are.   It just takes time to develop.

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 I think it's a combination of nature and nurture, plus being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

If Hindley had not met Brady, would those children be alive today.

The kids Venables and Thompson would not have abducted little Jamie Bulger if they hadn't  been friends at school. 

Obviously killers who act alone don't need a partner in crime, but maybe being brought up in a different place by different people he could have turned out differently.

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 No.  He's an evil little shit.  It's that simple.   I get sick to death of people trying to make excuses for murderous nutters just because they are either kids or young people.    The other glaring problem is nobody in the know how acted on the red flags.  Then we get the public 'kumbaya' gatherings, candle vigils and 'lessons learned' and then it happens again and again and again.

It's sickening and utterly avoidable in the majority of cases.   And they should stop insulting people with mental health issues by lumping this particular type of killer with them.   They don't have 'mental health' issues.  They are psychotic insane monsters.

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 I'm not making excuses, more looking for potential reasons as to why he has turned out like he has.

Yes he is evil, the way he has acted today, saying he is glad and happy those girls are dead, is just another indication of that.

If someone is born evil, as you say, how can their acts be "utterly avoidable"? Evil people do evil things...as in this case.

Do you think if the 'red flags' had been acted on and followed up, he wouldn't have eventually committed some heinous crime or other?

So had he been brought up by different people in different circumstances, this perhaps could have been avoided then?

Obviously his school knew he was capable of violence, long before that his parents must have seen he wasn't developing normally. If a young kid is violent, be it with other young kids or animals....that's a huge red flag, and one which many ignore. Can these things be treated very early on to steer them onto a different path.

However, if someone is truly 'born evil'...and bearing in mind in this country we can't incarcerate people for life until they have committed a heinous crime, I really don't see how these things can be prevented...probably why I hang on to the hope that nobody is actually born evil, it's a combination of nature, nurture and environment.

Syl wrote:

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So had he been brought up by different people in different circumstances, this perhaps could have been avoided then?

Obviously his school knew he was capable of violence, long before that his parents must have seen he wasn't developing normally. If a young kid is violent, be it with other young kids or animals....that's a huge red flag, and one which many ignore. Can these things be treated very early on to steer them onto a different path.

However, if someone is truly 'born evil'...and bearing in mind in this country we can't incarcerate people for life until they have committed a heinous crime, I really don't see how these things can be prevented...probably why I hang on to the hope that nobody is actually born evil, it's a combination of nature, nurture and environment.

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 There was no effort made to stop him or other killers.   They are known to the police and nothing is done.  They shouldn't have any freedom.  They should be subjected to strict curfews and locked away.  But that's not done.   And also, I think the death sentence in these cases should apply.    Those girls were stabbed in the face and neck, one over 80 times, the other 122 times.  There would be nothing left of their features.  I can't even imagine the level of malignant ferocity that would take.  We need stricter laws.

18 years for each murder. 16 years for each attempted murder. 12 years for the ricin. And a whole range of other charges. He's likely never to be released. Thank God.

Life with parole only after 52 years.