ChaoticMusings

Date: Jun 16 12:34 AM, 2025

RE: Maddog's health, fitness and longevity thread..

Maddog · Go Outside

Anonymous wrote:
Maddog I watched a damning documentary about how mercenary American health insurance is. A gentleman cut off two fingers at work and his health insurance only paid for one to be sewn back on. The other finger was thrown away ! I assumed if you had insurance you were generally ok but it seems the companies find any excuse not to pay for life saving treatment or operations. People died of cancer while their partners were still arguing with heartless insurance companies who refused to pay out. Is it still that brutal ? I believe Hilary Clinton tried to introduce free healthcare but a smear campaign from the right about "socialist healthcare" put a stop to that. It seems big business rules in the US to the detriment of the electorate. It just manipulates and outright lies to the public to ensure the money keeps rolling in. Has the healthcare system improved at all, do you mind me asking. Are many Americans so invested in fitness because they can't afford to get ill?

All entities that pay for healthcare ration it to some degree.

Including my government and yours.

Maddog · Go Outside

Healthwatch England, a patient advocacy group that scrutinises NHS performance, said the number of people dying while waiting for care was “a national tragedy”.

Louise Ansari, the chief executive, said: “We know that delays to care have significant impacts on people’s lives, putting many in danger.”

Dr Emma Runswick, the British Medical Association’s deputy chair of council, said the fatalities were a “terrible indictment of this government’s mismanagement of our health services”.

‘National tragedy’: figures show large rise in people dying while on NHS waiting list | NHS | The Guardian https://share.google/FWni0D7Phopj4sIAA

Being "covered" doesn't insure treatment, anywhere.

Stay healthy and do your best to not need medical intervention..👍

Date: Jun 16 8:56 PM, 2025

Yes but you pay for health insurance Maddog, people don't pay for the NHS and I can assure you the NHS would ensure patients would keep both fingers! If you go private here you pay but you get exactly what treatment you want and you don't wait long. I assumed it would be the same with your health insurance. If you pay them monthly an agreed amount for many years. (I assume thats how it works) why do they refuse so many treatments? I was hoping for an answer to that not a deflection to the NHS where people don't pay so a comparison is not applicable.

Maddog · Go Outside

Anonymous wrote:
Yes but you pay for health insurance Maddog, people don't pay for the NHS and I can assure you the NHS would ensure patients would keep both fingers! If you go private here you pay but you get exactly what treatment you want and you don't wait long. I assumed it would be the same with your health insurance. If you pay them monthly an agreed amount for many years. (I assume thats how it works) why do they refuse so many treatments? I was hoping for an answer to that not a deflection to the NHS where people don't pay so a comparison is not applicable.

How is NHS funded?

You can't be sure the NHS would treat someone who lost 2 fingers before they bled to death. 😉

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Speaking as one who has just used the services, incidentally at the first NHS hospital in the world, I have to say, every single member of staff, from cleaners, to nurses, consultants, surgeons and everyone in between, was absolutely great.

You may or may not bleed to death if you wait for an ambulance, but if you can get to the nearest hospital with your fingers dropping off, you will be seen and treated immediately.

assets.nhs.uk/prod/documents/History_of_trafford_general_hospital.pdf

Date: Jun 17 12:31 AM, 2025

I’m another who has had great care and aftercare from the NHS. I’ve received private and NHS care and both have been impressive.

Being bigger and more expensive doesn’t necessarily mean quality, as has been proved in a few previously posted links.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Speaking as one who has just used the services, incidentally at the first NHS hospital in the world, I have to say, every single member of staff, from cleaners, to nurses, consultants, surgeons and everyone in between, was absolutely great.

You may or may not bleed to death if you wait for an ambulance, but if you can get to the nearest hospital with your fingers dropping off, you will be seen and treated immediately.

assets.nhs.uk/prod/documents/History_of_trafford_general_hospital.pdf

Which is pretty much what happens here. If walk into an ER bleeding they don't ask for your insurance, they treat you

I'm not sure what the anonymous poster was watching but I couldn't see an instance where they would only attach one finger, unless there was no chance to save one.

Date: Jun 17 2:14 AM, 2025

It was a documentary by Michael Moore, it looked quite a few years old. The gentleman with the fingers incident certainly features, his ring finger cost twelve grand and the middle finger was triple that. Why I have no idea! In the end he took people bankrupted by paying for healthcare to another country and they tearfully received the long awaited treatment for free. They couldn't believe the pittance prescription meds cost either. It was the people on insurance he was concerned about, as the system is seemingly very corrupt, akin to big pharma that sold oxycontin to unsuspecting patients pretending it was safe. It does seem big business has its claws firmly wrapped around its citizens in America. I'm not having a go at you personally Maddog, so please don't think that. The UK is far from perfect but your healthcare system is swindling people, unless circumstances have changed since the documentary.

Date: Jun 17 2:20 PM, 2025

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Speaking as one who has just used the services, incidentally at the first NHS hospital in the world, I have to say, every single member of staff, from cleaners, to nurses, consultants, surgeons and everyone in between, was absolutely great.

You may or may not bleed to death if you wait for an ambulance, but if you can get to the nearest hospital with your fingers dropping off, you will be seen and treated immediately.

assets.nhs.uk/prod/documents/History_of_trafford_general_hospital.pdf
Which is pretty much what happens here. If walk into an ER bleeding they don't ask for your insurance, they treat you

I'm not sure what the anonymous poster was watching but I couldn't see an instance where they would only attach one finger, unless there was no chance to save one.

and then what, do they hand you a bill before you leave or mail it?

Maddog · Go Outside

Anonymous wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Speaking as one who has just used the services, incidentally at the first NHS hospital in the world, I have to say, every single member of staff, from cleaners, to nurses, consultants, surgeons and everyone in between, was absolutely great.

You may or may not bleed to death if you wait for an ambulance, but if you can get to the nearest hospital with your fingers dropping off, you will be seen and treated immediately.

assets.nhs.uk/prod/documents/History_of_trafford_general_hospital.pdf
Which is pretty much what happens here. If walk into an ER bleeding they don't ask for your insurance, they treat you

I'm not sure what the anonymous poster was watching but I couldn't see an instance where they would only attach one finger, unless there was no chance to save one.
and then what, do they hand you a bill before you leave or mail it?

Sorta depends. What usually happens, if you have insurance, is they bill your insurance company, so you just leave.

If your insurance company doesn't pay all or part, then you get a bill from the hospital.

Maddog · Go Outside

About the "documentary" SICKO..

www.sbsun.com/2007/09/12/whats-really-sicko-is-moores-fact-distortion/

Maddog · Go Outside

And, Obamacare has passed since that movie was made. More folks are covered and their policies are subsidized if they are poor..

Date: Jun 17 11:17 PM, 2025

Maddog what happened to the american people in SICKO was real. At the time of filming this the NHS was faring far better than now (as was our economy) and there were hardly any cancelled appointments. The journalist in this review claims so but looking back, we had no idea how lucky we are. Also everyone is willing to pay a little in tax for free healthcare. Three months ago my partner dislocated his shoulder. He was viewed as priority and waited only half an hour in A and E to be seen and Syl has just been to hospital and as she states above the care was highly professional. The documentary may well have been biased but so is the review you linked to. They are unable to deny that people do pass away from cancer waiting for insurance , that people can go bankrupt if blighted by sudden illness. Many simply can't afford to go to hospital as their insurance may not cover it. I concede things may have improved in the US since this was aired but now Trump is president and your economy has suffered.

Maddog · Go Outside

Around 320 patients a week may have died avoidably in England last year due to excessive waits for hospital beds in Accident and Emergency departments.

The Royal College of Emergency Medicine (RCEM) estimates more than 16,600 deaths were linked to these delays, a sobering increase of 20 per cent compared to 2023.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/accident-emergency-patients-hospital-bed-waits-study-b2751161.html

Is this made up?

If so, what good is free healthcare that is withheld until you're dead?.

-- Edited by Maddog on Tuesday 17th of June 2025 11:41:50 PM

Date: Jun 18 12:01 AM, 2025

MD,the New York Times review of Sicko is far more positive and whilst it admits Moore is theatrical it certainly does not deny his claims. The Guardian is a UK newspaper which accepts our healthcare may not be perfect but reminds us when compared to the corruption of American healthcare insurance we should count our blessings. This film was cited as Moore's most superior film here and across the pond. Why did you cherry pick a bitterly biased review rather than say, the New York Times which is an American source with a far more nuanced and accurate take on Sicko? It is not your fault that American health insurance companies are corrupt anymore than it is our fault the Tories woefully delibrately underfunded the NHS leaving it a much more flawed system. But at least in the UK we are not in denial about our health service.

Date: Jun 18 12:38 AM, 2025

Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Speaking as one who has just used the services, incidentally at the first NHS hospital in the world, I have to say, every single member of staff, from cleaners, to nurses, consultants, surgeons and everyone in between, was absolutely great.

You may or may not bleed to death if you wait for an ambulance, but if you can get to the nearest hospital with your fingers dropping off, you will be seen and treated immediately.

assets.nhs.uk/prod/documents/History_of_trafford_general_hospital.pdf
Which is pretty much what happens here. If walk into an ER bleeding they don't ask for your insurance, they treat you

I'm not sure what the anonymous poster was watching but I couldn't see an instance where they would only attach one finger, unless there was no chance to save one.
and then what, do they hand you a bill before you leave or mail it?
Sorta depends. What usually happens, if you have insurance, is they bill your insurance company, so you just leave.

If your insurance company doesn't pay all or part, then you get a bill from the hospital.

What happens if you have no insurance?

Date: Jun 18 12:57 AM, 2025

Hang on. So the hospitals treat people who can't afford it and then bill them. Maddog please answer a straightforward question. What happens to people who get no aid or insurance who can't afford a hefty hospital bill?

Maddog · Go Outside

Anonymous wrote:
MD,the New York Times review of Sicko is far more positive and whilst it admits Moore is theatrical it certainly does not deny his claims. The Guardian is a UK newspaper which accepts our healthcare may not be perfect but reminds us when compared to the corruption of American healthcare insurance we should count our blessings. This film was cited as Moore's most superior film here and across the pond. Why did you cherry pick a bitterly biased review rather than say, the New York Times which is an American source with a far more nuanced and accurate take on Sicko? It is not your fault that American health insurance companies are corrupt anymore than it is our fault the Tories woefully delibrately underfunded the NHS leaving it a much more flawed system. But at least in the UK we are not in denial about our health service.

OK, take the NY Times version of Moore' 20 yearly old movie..

Maddog · Go Outside

Anonymous wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Speaking as one who has just used the services, incidentally at the first NHS hospital in the world, I have to say, every single member of staff, from cleaners, to nurses, consultants, surgeons and everyone in between, was absolutely great.

You may or may not bleed to death if you wait for an ambulance, but if you can get to the nearest hospital with your fingers dropping off, you will be seen and treated immediately.

assets.nhs.uk/prod/documents/History_of_trafford_general_hospital.pdf
Which is pretty much what happens here. If walk into an ER bleeding they don't ask for your insurance, they treat you

I'm not sure what the anonymous poster was watching but I couldn't see an instance where they would only attach one finger, unless there was no chance to save one.
and then what, do they hand you a bill before you leave or mail it?
Sorta depends. What usually happens, if you have insurance, is they bill your insurance company, so you just leave.

If your insurance company doesn't pay all or part, then you get a bill from the hospital.
What happens if you have no insurance?

Death by firing squad.