Maddog wrote:

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"We find that both paydowns and prepayments rose sharply to historically high levels by April 2021, and we also present evidence consistent with stimulus programs driving some of the higher paydowns. These higher paydowns dampened growth in credit card balances through April, before subsiding somewhat as the stimulus payments waned. In addition, changes in both the number and usage of new cards originated since the start of the pandemic contributed to decline in balances, explaining approximately 20 percent of the decline in 2020 and 13 percent of the decline in the first four months of 2021."

^^^Straight from the Fed..

Of course people are far worse off thanks to that "help" from our government. People not even born yet will suffer the I'll effects of that help..

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 Sure, but the economic impact of COVID policies didn't end in 2021 did it? I would say we are just about out of the other side which is why the rubber will hit the road in 2025 (and why we see companies increasingly push for a full return to work etc.)

So what happened? The Government injected huge liquidity through stimulus packages to ride out the lockdowns. People who had been struggling with falling living standards since 2008 paid down existing debt which they had accumulated to maintain their lifestyles. However, this was temporary relief as job losses occurred particularly in sectors which couldn't work from home etc. People used their savings and accumulated more debt to keep afloat hence the spiralling credit card figures (and now increasing defaults.) House prices increased thus increasing renters who pay more than what a mortgage payment would have been putting pressure on household finances. 

On the flip side the already rich increased their wealth through a booming stock market particularly tech, corporate bailouts boosted shareholder dividends while smaller businesses failed, low interest rates meant the wealthy could leverage debt to accumulate even more assets, price gouging from supply chain distribution was rampant.

I've said it before and I will say it again. This is a heist and the middle class is getting gutted like a fish. 

And, our unemployment rate was better in 2021 and after, than before covid. People weren't suffering because their job was gone, but because inflation was destroying their purchasing power. Inflation which is a direct result of bad fiscal policy..

Vam wrote:

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So, the Ketamine King was seen leaping around onstage like a demented dickhead, waving a chainsaw around and screaming “YERRRR…THIS IS THE CHAINSAW OF BUREAUCRACY!!!”.

His complete lack of spatial awareness of the professional careers and the American lives he has indiscriminately upended, was there for all the world to see.

A Twitter account (‘Into the Shadows’) posted this earlier this morning. While reading through it, I was muttering  “YERRRR! EVERY. SINGLE. WORD!!”  Worth a read, if anyone’s interested:

 

“ Elon Musk, the walking midlife crisis in a Spirit Halloween “tech genius” costume, just sat on his gold-plated government-funded ass at CPAC and declared that Social Security and Medicare are “entitlements.” As if his entire existence isn’t one giant fucking handout.

Let’s be clear: this is a man whose entire wealth is built on taxpayer-funded subsidies, government contracts, and outright corporate welfare. SpaceX? Built on NASA money. Tesla? Propped up by government EV tax credits. Starlink? Literally subsidized by federal funds. If hypocrisy was a rocket, this asshole would’ve colonized Mars by now.

But now, the billionaire welfare queen wants to cut benefits for the working-class people who actually paid into the system. The same people whose taxes helped him scam his way into becoming the world’s richest failson. Oh, but when Elon gets billions in government funding, it’s “investment in the future”—when retirees want the money they worked for, it’s “entitlements”……

….Elon, you are the biggest government parasite on the planet. The only difference between you and the people you mock for living off handouts is that they actually need the money. “

 

 

-- Edited by Vam on Friday 21st of February 2025 08:09:58 AM

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 Yes, the corporate welfare given to him by politicians in the past have, in a small way, led to 36 trillion in debt. 124% debt to GDP, a nearly 2 trillion dollar deficit  last year and nearly a trillion dollars in interest payments alone. This profligate spending by corrupt and clueless imbeciles has fueled inflation that is crippling the middle and lower class and dooms anyone planning on being alive in 10 years..

So, I no longer give two fucks who takes a chainsaw to the disaster in DC. The problem is that serious..

Syl wrote:

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The world is in the hands of insane megalomaniacs.

 

 

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 They are tackling the biggest problem facing governments, and you're discussing their style..

Again, I don't give two fucks who does what must be done. 

jackb wrote:

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Maddog wrote:

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Syl wrote:

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The world is in the hands of insane megalomaniacs.

 

 

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 They are tackling the biggest problem facing governments, and you're discussing their style..

 

Again, I don't give two fucks who does what must be done. 

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  And you actually believe that!

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 Here's what I know...

The US is 36 trillion in debt. Our debt to GDP is 124%, the highest in our history (higher than during WWII). We borrowed nearly two trillion last year. We spent nearly 1 trillion on interest on those loans last year, which surpassed defense spending. That's also a first. Some might say this is the biggest problem facing the US. I'd say the biggest problem is the ignorance of these problems, or the inability to understand that these are the biggest problems facing the US right now..

I used to blame politicians for this nonsense, but they do it on our watch. Often times with our blessing..

Maddog wrote:

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Syl wrote:

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The world is in the hands of insane megalomaniacs.

 

 

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 They are tackling the biggest problem facing governments, and you're discussing their style..

 

Again, I don't give two fucks who does what must be done. 

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I hear you, and I really do get why you feel so strongly on this crucial issue.

But how? How effectively do you believe Musk is actually tackling the problem of America’s engorged deficit? Ketamine intake aside, the guy‘s head just ain’t wired right. His own mother has posted on X that he’s “developmentally disabled“.

How can Americans trust that he’s not just pulling random figures out of his ass, and/or cherry-picking whatever stats he wants out of the vast array of government data he and his band of clueless 20-something tech incels have accessed? Only to then take that random data completely out of context, and announce whatever fictitious bullshit he weaves around it.

Any ‘waste, fraud and abuse’ he’s always going on about should be identified and nixed. Your deficit is a 10000-alarm fire. No question about any of that. But I guess my question to you is, do you believe a cosplaying, chainsaw-wielding dork like Musk is really up to the job?

Vam wrote:

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Maddog wrote:

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Syl wrote:

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The world is in the hands of insane megalomaniacs.

 

 

---

 They are tackling the biggest problem facing governments, and you're discussing their style..

 

Again, I don't give two fucks who does what must be done. 

---

I hear you, and I really do get why you feel so strongly on this crucial issue.

But how? How effectively do you believe Musk is actually tackling the problem of America’s engorged deficit? Ketamine intake aside, the guy‘s head just ain’t wired right. His own mother has posted on X that he’s “developmentally disabled“.

How can Americans trust that he’s not just pulling random figures out of his ass, and/or cherry-picking whatever stats he wants out of the vast array of government data he and his band of clueless 20-something tech incels have accessed? Only to then take that random data completely out of context, and announce whatever fictitious bullshit he weaves around it.

Any ‘waste, fraud and abuse’ he’s always going on about should be identified and nixed. Your deficit is a 10000-alarm fire. No question about any of that. But I guess my question to you is, do you believe a cosplaying, chainsaw-wielding dork like Musk is really up to the job?

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 It's disturbing that the 20 somethings are not accountants but programmers.

What's really going on there?

Maddog wrote:

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 Here's what I know...

The US is 36 trillion in debt. Our debt to GDP is 124%, the highest in our history (higher than during WWII). We borrowed nearly two trillion last year. We spent nearly 1 trillion on interest on those loans last year, which surpassed defense spending. That's also a first. Some might say this is the biggest problem facing the US. I'd say the biggest problem is the ignorance of these problems, or the inability to understand that these are the biggest problems facing the US right now..

I used to blame politicians for this nonsense, but they do it on our watch. Often times with our blessing..

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 To be fair you are absolutely right to be worried. If the US or the UK get to the point where we can no longer service such a large debt then the wealth generating assets of the country will get flogged off to the highest bidder to help bring down levels. Effectively a country will no longer be owned by the people and the taxpayer but by the rich and overseas investors. You've effectively given your country away. Then you are at the mercy of the market to determine your national policy rather than what is in the best interests of your citizens as you need to preferentially pay your creditors first.

Governments also play fast and loose with debt and in fact use high inflation to their advantage as it reduces the value of the overall debt to GDO ratio, meaning they can borrow more with lower interest rates. There does come a time of reckoning though, which is now.   

So debt needs to come down and so does inflation if you want to improve the ability of ordinary people to pay their household bills. However, what I believe we should avoid in the meantime as this continuing transfer of wealth from the working / middle class to the rich smuggled in under the cover of "austerity." In the UK it was socialism for the rich in the austerity years but capitalism for everyone else. Living standards for everyone but the rich will continue to fall in the long term even if inflation falls as we didn't correctly diagnose the main problem - wealth inequality rather than inflation (which is the secondary problem.)

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times... 

Barksdale wrote:

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Maddog wrote:

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 Here's what I know...

The US is 36 trillion in debt. Our debt to GDP is 124%, the highest in our history (higher than during WWII). We borrowed nearly two trillion last year. We spent nearly 1 trillion on interest on those loans last year, which surpassed defense spending. That's also a first. Some might say this is the biggest problem facing the US. I'd say the biggest problem is the ignorance of these problems, or the inability to understand that these are the biggest problems facing the US right now..

I used to blame politicians for this nonsense, but they do it on our watch. Often times with our blessing..

---

 To be fair you are absolutely right to be worried. If the US or the UK get to the point where we can no longer service such a large debt then the wealth generating assets of the country will get flogged off to the highest bidder to help bring down levels. Effectively a country will no longer be owned by the people and the taxpayer but by the rich and overseas investors. You've effectively given your country away. Then you are at the mercy of the market to determine your national policy rather than what is in the best interests of your citizens as you need to preferentially pay your creditors first.

Governments also play fast and loose with debt and in fact use high inflation to their advantage as it reduces the value of the overall debt to GDO ratio, meaning they can borrow more with lower interest rates. There does come a time of reckoning though, which is now.   

So debt needs to come down and so does inflation if you want to improve the ability of ordinary people to pay their household bills. However, what I believe we should avoid in the meantime as this continuing transfer of wealth from the working / middle class to the rich smuggled in under the cover of "austerity." In the UK it was socialism for the rich in the austerity years but capitalism for everyone else. Living standards for everyone but the rich will continue to fall in the long term even if inflation falls as we didn't correctly diagnose the main problem - wealth inequality rather than inflation (which is the secondary problem.)

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times... 

 

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 It's low inflation that let's governments play fast and loose..Low inflation means low interest rates. Financing all of those give aways at .25% wasn't nearly as expensive as it is at 5%.

Also, since we don't pay off debt, every month we are refinancing old debt that cost us .25% at 4 or 5%..

That's why our biggest bill is debt and will continue to be so as we add more debt at higher interest rates. All of that makes fighting inflation even more difficult, which keeps interest rates up. 

It's a death spiral amd the status quo is indefensible, unsustainable and untenable. 

Unfortunately our opposition to the status quo might be off their rocker..