ChaoticMusings

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

RE: Virginia Giuffre

Fluffy · Musing at the Chaos

Anonymous wrote:
Digger wrote:
Her book is out tomorrow. No doubt fresh horrors concerning randy Andy. I don't doubt she suffered greatly but I'm curious as to why she didn't walk away.
That's often said about victims of abuse, including domestic violence, but the reasons for it are complex.

I agree. If we haven't walked in someone 's shoes we won't necessarily understand the path they took. When people are abused they are living a confusing horrible and an illogical life yet people often apply logic to events only the victim can understand.

Fluffy · Musing at the Chaos

Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
Magica wrote:
Digger wrote:
Her book is out tomorrow. No doubt fresh horrors concerning randy Andy. I don't doubt she suffered greatly but I'm curious as to why she didn't walk away.
Ms Giuffre says she was forced to have sex with Andrew three times. Then got paid £15K, so money wasn't an issue.
However, in her new book, Ms Giuffre exposes the details of the gagging order she was reportedly asked to sign by the prince.
'I agreed to a one-year gag order, which seemed important to the prince because it ensured that his mother's Platinum Jubilee would not be tarnished any more than it already had been,' she writes.
Why would you sign a gagging order for just a year, or any length of time, or settle for £12M when you knew all those other girls were suffering?
Also why hasn't she named other men involved.

She may have done in this book.
There is no doubt that it will be causing many men who were around in that circle at the time lots of sleepless nights. Clinton, Trump, Stephen Hawkins, have all been named so far.
Apparently every famous, powerful, wealthy man who went to that little island went for one thing. The young girls were groomed and used, kids from poor homes, some could hardly speak English, all there to satisfy Epstein and his mates.

It makes me feel sick. Money talks. How many more rich and famous Paedos out there. Trump is thinking of commuting Diddy's sentence!
All the nonces stick together. 😡

Very true Mags.

He is concealing the files because he is in them. Epstein said he taped the men he introduced to the girls so he would have leverage over them. That's why I suspect he may have been murdered in prison.

In those files are so many powerful rich and famous men who would lose everything if the public knew they slept with underage trafficked girls. Not all were underage by UK 's age of consent but some certainly were .The youngest were about 14 I believe.Some of the girls were "recruited" from inner city schools in New York.The one thing Virginia said she felt shame about was helping recruit these younger girls at Epstein 's request.

She had a horrendous childhood that I can't even imagine, the one man meant to love and protect her abused her in the worst possible way. I don't know how her father can even live with himself..She wouldn't consider her own safety or consent when she met Epstein as her self esteem in that regard would have been totally eroded.

When she was introduced to Prince Andrew Epstein asked Andrew how old he thought Virginia was. Andrew guessed correctly ,she was 17. He then said (which I find totally sinister) "I knew because I have daughters your age Virginia"

Did he even realise what he was saying, that he intended to have sex with a girl that reminded him of his own children? I don't consider Andrew a pead*phile because 17 is only one year shy of an adult but he is certainly a dirty , manipulative old man who didn't care one jot about the trafficked girls or his own family.

If the public ever discover some of the famous men who went on those private jets with the trafficked girls it would be a scandal that would end many careers. Trump will never let the truth be known to save his own orange skin.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Guiffre had nothing bad to say about Trump. I suspect the files tell a different story.
Just shows how bent governments are...why are the FBI hanging on to these files I wonder?

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Guiffre had nothing bad to say about Trump. I suspect the files tell a different story.
Just shows how bent governments are...why are the FBI hanging on to these files I wonder?

There's probably not nearly as many files as people have been led to believe. I don't think Epstein kept files like people think he did..

What there is, is testimony from victims in depositions.

I would say it's past time to release those.

Of course others will say releasing them will prove nothing. It's all hearsay..

I'm also surprised no one has leaked them yet..

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Guiffre had nothing bad to say about Trump. I suspect the files tell a different story.
Just shows how bent governments are...why are the FBI hanging on to these files I wonder?
There's probably not nearly as many files as people have been led to believe. I don't think Epstein kept files like people think he did..

What there is, is testimony from victims in depositions.

I would say it's past time to release those.

Of course others will say releasing them will prove nothing. It's all hearsay..

I'm also surprised no one has leaked them yet..

Maybe people are scared to blab.

I'm sure these files, lists of names and places etc, have existed, whether they do now is a different matter.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Guiffre had nothing bad to say about Trump. I suspect the files tell a different story.
Just shows how bent governments are...why are the FBI hanging on to these files I wonder?
There's probably not nearly as many files as people have been led to believe. I don't think Epstein kept files like people think he did..

What there is, is testimony from victims in depositions.

I would say it's past time to release those.

Of course others will say releasing them will prove nothing. It's all hearsay..

I'm also surprised no one has leaked them yet..
Maybe people are scared to blab.
I'm sure these files, lists of names and places etc, have existed, whether they do now is a different matter.

People could be afraid, but I think they could do a Watergate type leak and get away with it.

There's never been any evidence that I know of that suggested Epstein had personal records about who was screwing who..

I think that would have defeated the purpose of his "playground".

I don't think powerful people would allow their activities to be recorded or chronicled. And if they were ever caught (like say Andrew) they would just try to discredit the girls.

Andrew messed up when he allowed his picture to be made. Without it, I doubt he is in much trouble..

I do think the girls depositions are a treasure trove of information. Those records exist somewhere..

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

The photo with Andrew first connected him to Epstein, but since that was first shown he has lied to the authorities about his involvement with Epstein, he even continued his friendship with him even after Epstein was under investigation for sex offences. He also asked police to find some dirt on Guiffre. More and more has come out about his connections, including alleged orgies with several underage girls.

Magica · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
The photo with Andrew first connected him to Epstein, but since that was first shown he has lied to the authorities about his involvement with Epstein, he even continued his friendship with him even after Epstein was under investigation for sex offences. He also asked police to find some dirt on Guiffre. More and more has come out about his connections, including alleged orgies with several underage girls.

Andrews a sleaze ball.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
The photo with Andrew first connected him to Epstein, but since that was first shown he has lied to the authorities about his involvement with Epstein, he even continued his friendship with him even after Epstein was under investigation for sex offences. He also asked police to find some dirt on Guiffre. More and more has come out about his connections, including alleged orgies with several underage girls.

He no doubt has lied..

But without that photo he could have just said the girl has an active imagination.

In fact without the photo, Guiffre may not have even bothered bringing it up?

There were likely dozens of girls, but without some sort of proof they seem to have all decided to stay mum..

At least to the public.

Date: Oct 25 4:13 AM, 2025

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
The photo with Andrew first connected him to Epstein, but since that was first shown he has lied to the authorities about his involvement with Epstein, he even continued his friendship with him even after Epstein was under investigation for sex offences. He also asked police to find some dirt on Guiffre. More and more has come out about his connections, including alleged orgies with several underage girls.
He no doubt has lied..

But without that photo he could have just said the girl has an active imagination.

In fact without the photo, Guiffre may not have even bothered bringing it up?

There were likely dozens of girls, but without some sort of proof they seem to have all decided to stay mum..

At least to the public.

Can you really blame them, look at the flack Guiffre had…not everyone is strong enough to cope with threats/death threats.

I often wonder if this was solely a British thing would it have gained traction at all?

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

It would have been covered up.
It seems abuse against women and girls is often deemed not in the public interest.

Virginia Guiffre was brave. She had death threats, some taken so seriously she had to disappear for weeks, and on top of that she has been vilified for years by press and public alike.
It's sad that only after her death her true story is emerging.
THE true story involving all the other young girls and rich powerful men, probably won't ever be known....nothing has changed really.

Magica · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
It would have been covered up.
It seems abuse against women and girls is often deemed not in the public interest.

Virginia Guiffre was brave. She had death threats, some taken so seriously she had to disappear for weeks, and on top of that she has been vilified for years by press and public alike.
It's sad that only after her death her true story is emerging.
THE true story involving all the other young girls and rich powerful men, probably won't ever be known....nothing has changed really.

I don't believe she killed herself tbh.

Why is it fair game to rape, abuse, groom young girls. I'm so sick of it!

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
It would have been covered up.
It seems abuse against women and girls is often deemed not in the public interest.

Virginia Guiffre was brave. She had death threats, some taken so seriously she had to disappear for weeks, and on top of that she has been vilified for years by press and public alike.
It's sad that only after her death her true story is emerging.
THE true story involving all the other young girls and rich powerful men, probably won't ever be known....nothing has changed really.
I don't believe she killed herself tbh.
Why is it fair game to rape, abuse, groom young girls. I'm so sick of it!

Throughout history, who decides that it's fair game to rape and groom women and girls and get away with it?? Rich powerful men, obviously.

Magica · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
It would have been covered up.
It seems abuse against women and girls is often deemed not in the public interest.

Virginia Guiffre was brave. She had death threats, some taken so seriously she had to disappear for weeks, and on top of that she has been vilified for years by press and public alike.
It's sad that only after her death her true story is emerging.
THE true story involving all the other young girls and rich powerful men, probably won't ever be known....nothing has changed really.
I don't believe she killed herself tbh.
Why is it fair game to rape, abuse, groom young girls. I'm so sick of it!
Throughout history, who decides that it's fair game to rape and groom women and girls and get away with it?? Rich powerful men, obviously.

Yes, and in London turns out shifty Khan knew about the Muslims grooming, raping young girls. Police are now re-opening the cases.

About time too! Khan must go, the shifty, lying goblin! 😠

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
It would have been covered up.
It seems abuse against women and girls is often deemed not in the public interest.

Virginia Guiffre was brave. She had death threats, some taken so seriously she had to disappear for weeks, and on top of that she has been vilified for years by press and public alike.
It's sad that only after her death her true story is emerging.
THE true story involving all the other young girls and rich powerful men, probably won't ever be known....nothing has changed really.

There is no doubt it takes courage to come forward..

I don't think it's a matter of it being in the public interest or not, but a matter of proving anything after the fact.

Obviously if a girl makes a call when its going on, and the cops come busting in, that's easy to prove.

But years after the actions, and that's far more difficult.

Powerful men can simply deny it, because there isn't enough proof (unless they pose in a picture).

That's why I sorta think there is no list. That constitutes proof and no one, even Epstein, would want to create a trail back to them..

These are all handshake deals with a wink and mums the word..

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

There has been quite a few cases where historic abusers and rapists have been charged and found guilty....the grooming gangs here spring to mind.
Obviously, it's harder to prove someone was raped 20 years ago, but it's hard to prove someone was raped five days ago.
Generally it's her word against his, people usually don't have an audience when they are having sex, be it forcibly or consensually.

Maddog · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
There has been quite a few cases where historic abusers and rapists have been charged and found guilty....the grooming gangs here spring to mind.
Obviously, it's harder to prove someone was raped 20 years ago, but it's hard to prove someone was raped five days ago.
Generally it's her word against his, people usually don't have an audience when they are having sex, be it forcibly or consensually.

Wasn't there evidence of the rape gangs when they were happening though?

I thought the girls were talking and the authorities blew them off for fear of offending the wrong demographic?

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
There has been quite a few cases where historic abusers and rapists have been charged and found guilty....the grooming gangs here spring to mind.
Obviously, it's harder to prove someone was raped 20 years ago, but it's hard to prove someone was raped five days ago.
Generally it's her word against his, people usually don't have an audience when they are having sex, be it forcibly or consensually.
Wasn't there evidence of the rape gangs when they were happening though?

I thought the girls were talking and the authorities blew them off for fear of offending the wrong demographic?

By the time these men were charged, a lot of it was classed as historic. Also, these girls were passed round to family and friends of the groomers, often travelling all over the country.

Thousands of men have not been charged, it was the main groomers, the organisers who have been found guilty.

Digger · Admin

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
There has been quite a few cases where historic abusers and rapists have been charged and found guilty....the grooming gangs here spring to mind.
Obviously, it's harder to prove someone was raped 20 years ago, but it's hard to prove someone was raped five days ago.
Generally it's her word against his, people usually don't have an audience when they are having sex, be it forcibly or consensually.
Wasn't there evidence of the rape gangs when they were happening though?

I thought the girls were talking and the authorities blew them off for fear of offending the wrong demographic?
By the time these men were charged, a lot of it was classed as historic. Also, these girls were passed round to family and friends of the groomers, often travelling all over the country.
Thousands of men have not been charged, it was the main groomers, the organisers who have been found guilty.

There's been something like 9K grooming rapes in London alone.