ChaoticMusings

Digger · Admin

World Economic Forum 'rigged data' to make Brexit look like a failure

Fluffy · Getting Gobby

I've missed this but I haven't been watching the News lately (except seeing Starmer snivel under scrutiny about his appalling policies ). Is there a link or just tell me what to google. We ARE much poorer than other countries though, so what is the reason if not Brexit?

Got it, tap the blue words for links. Okey dokey!

-- Edited by Fluffy on Wednesday 23rd of July 2025 10:41:02 PM

Digger · Admin

Fluffy wrote:
I've missed this but I haven't been watching the News lately (except seeing Starmer snivel under scrutiny about his appalling policies ). Is there a link or just tell me what to google. We ARE much poorer than other countries though, so what is the reason if not Brexit?
Got it, tap the blue words for links. Okey dokey!

-- Edited by Fluffy on Wednesday 23rd of July 2025 10:41:02 PM

Many things have caused our debt as a nation. Brexit hardly touched that. You can take it right back to WW2 where our debts to the US and Canada were only paid off in 2006.

The 2008 financial crisis in the UK was primarily caused by the bursting of a global housing bubble, fuelled by risky mortgage lending practices and a lack of regulation in the financial sector. This led to a credit crunch, bank failures, and a sharp economic downturn.

We're currently in a mess because of our inept governments

Maddog · Go Outside

Fluffy wrote:
I've missed this but I haven't been watching the News lately (except seeing Starmer snivel under scrutiny about his appalling policies ). Is there a link or just tell me what to google. We ARE much poorer than other countries though, so what is the reason if not Brexit?
Got it, tap the blue words for links. Okey dokey!

-- Edited by Fluffy on Wednesday 23rd of July 2025 10:41:02 PM

What do you mean by poorer?

Magica · Go Outside

Digger wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
I've missed this but I haven't been watching the News lately (except seeing Starmer snivel under scrutiny about his appalling policies ). Is there a link or just tell me what to google. We ARE much poorer than other countries though, so what is the reason if not Brexit?
Got it, tap the blue words for links. Okey dokey!

-- Edited by Fluffy on Wednesday 23rd of July 2025 10:41:02 PM
Many things have caused our debt as a nation. Brexit hardly touched that. You can take it right back to WW2 where our debts to the US and Canada were only paid off in 2006.
The 2008 financial crisis in the UK was primarily caused by the bursting of a global housing bubble, fuelled by risky mortgage lending practices and a lack of regulation in the financial sector. This led to a credit crunch, bank failures, and a sharp economic downturn.
We're currently in a mess because of our inept governments

Bang on Digs! Not going to get any better with Stammer at the helm!

Fluffy · Getting Gobby

Maddog wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
I've missed this but I haven't been watching the News lately (except seeing Starmer snivel under scrutiny about his appalling policies ). Is there a link or just tell me what to google. We ARE much poorer than other countries though, so what is the reason if not Brexit?
Got it, tap the blue words for links. Okey dokey!

-- Edited by Fluffy on Wednesday 23rd of July 2025 10:41:02 PM
What do you mean by poorer?

This is from.a BBC source from this year as you like stats !

Economists and analysts generally assess the impact of leaving the EU single market and customs union on 1 Jan 2021 on the UK's goods trade as having been negative.

This is despite the fact that the UK negotiated a free trade deal with the EU and avoided tariffs - or taxes - being imposed on the import and export of goods.

The negative impact comes from so-called "non-tariff barriers" - time consuming and sometimes complicated new paperwork that businesses have to fill out when importing and exporting to the EU.

Immigration was a key theme in the 2016 referendum campaign, centred on freedom of movement within the EU, under which UK and EU citizens could freely move to visit, study, work and live.

There has been a big fall in EU immigration and EU net migration (immigration minus emigration), external since the referendum and this accelerated after 2020 due to the end of freedom of movement.

But there have been large increases in net migration from the rest of the world since 2020

The working assumption of the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), external, the government's independent official forecaster, is still that Brexit in the long-term will reduce exports and imports of goods and services by 15% relative to otherwise. It has held this view since 2016, including under the previous Government.

And the OBR's other working assumption is that the fall in trade relative to otherwise will reduce the long-term size of the UK economy by around 4% relative to otherwise, equivalent to roughly £100bn in today's money.

The OBR says it could revise both these assumptions based on new evidence and studies. The estimated negative economic impact could come down if the trade impact judged to be less severe. Yet there is no evidence, so far, to suggest that it will turn into a positive impact.

After Brexit, the UK has been able to strike its own trade deals with other countries.

There have been new trade deals with Australia and New Zealand and the government has been pursuing new agreements with the US and India.

But their impact on the economy is judged by the government's own official impact assessments to be small relative to the negative impact on UK- EU trade.

Source- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdrynjz1glpo

-- Edited by Fluffy on Thursday 24th of July 2025 11:54:36 AM

Fluffy · Getting Gobby

Magica wrote:
Digger wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
I've missed this but I haven't been watching the News lately (except seeing Starmer snivel under scrutiny about his appalling policies ). Is there a link or just tell me what to google. We ARE much poorer than other countries though, so what is the reason if not Brexit?
Got it, tap the blue words for links. Okey dokey!

-- Edited by Fluffy on Wednesday 23rd of July 2025 10:41:02 PM
Many things have caused our debt as a nation. Brexit hardly touched that. You can take it right back to WW2 where our debts to the US and Canada were only paid off in 2006.
The 2008 financial crisis in the UK was primarily caused by the bursting of a global housing bubble, fuelled by risky mortgage lending practices and a lack of regulation in the financial sector. This led to a credit crunch, bank failures, and a sharp economic downturn.
We're currently in a mess because of our inept governments
Bang on Digs! Not going to get any better with Stammer at the helm!

I do think Brexit affected the British economy quite badly Mags but it may not have been the concept of being a sovereign nation itself but the execution of the deal as Digger suggested previously.

The fact is Johnson really let down the UK by getting us a terrible deal.and I know you like Farage but he did mislead the voters by promising to give millions to the NHS if a leave vote occurred which simply never materialised.

I think you are right about Starmer. When he was questioned about his choices he and the Chancellor planned to make to welfare for the disabled he came across as very petulant, squirming in his chair.

He has done a deal with India today and evidently he is capable of dealing with important figures on the world stage, I couldn't see Liz Truss being adept at that! But he has a long way to go to make up.for some of his abysmal proposals and general.stand offish indifferent manner and as you say it might be too late. He is disliked by the public so much they might not want to.give him.another chance.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

I seriously doubt the majority of the British public who have been disgusted with his present performance will give him another chance.
It might be a simplistic way of looking at it, but when they were elected, and one of his first policies was to withdraw pensioners fuel allowance, I honestly think he sealed his fate then and there.
This simply is not the Labour that people expected...taking off the poorest and most vulnerable. Big mistake in judgment.

I can't see his reputation growing when Trump comes over for his State visit in September, either.
My toes are already curling at the expected grovelling, sycophantic way he will be acting.

Fluffy · Getting Gobby

Syl wrote:
I seriously doubt the majority of the British public who have been disgusted with his present performance will give him another chance.
It might be a simplistic way of looking at it, but when they were elected, and one of his first policies was to withdraw pensioners fuel allowance, I honestly think he sealed his fate then and there.
This simply is not the Labour that people expected...taking off the poorest and most vulnerable. Big mistake in judgment.

I can't see his reputation growing when Trump comes over for his State visit in September, either.
My toes are already curling at the expected grovelling, sycophantic way he will be acting.

Agree completely especially with the BIB. It's such a shame as I wanted to like Starmer but he isn't acting like a Labour PM and the cruel policies he approved are not just against Labour's core voters beliefs but most people's beliefs.

As for Trump due to Starmer's cringe worthy grovelling he has avoided higher tariffs for the UK. As unseemly as it is to watch I think it is necessary. If you don't grovel and make Trump feel like the most intelligent important President in American history he may decide to do all sorts.

The UK is saddled with a sycophant, but the US has to depend on a sociopath. I think we are in a better position

Digger · Admin

Fluffy wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
I've missed this but I haven't been watching the News lately (except seeing Starmer snivel under scrutiny about his appalling policies ). Is there a link or just tell me what to google. We ARE much poorer than other countries though, so what is the reason if not Brexit?
Got it, tap the blue words for links. Okey dokey!

-- Edited by Fluffy on Wednesday 23rd of July 2025 10:41:02 PM
What do you mean by poorer?
This is from.a BBC source from this year as you like stats !
Economists and analysts generally assess the impact of leaving the EU single market and customs union on 1 Jan 2021 on the UK's goods trade as having been negative.
This is despite the fact that the UK negotiated a free trade deal with the EU and avoided tariffs - or taxes - being imposed on the import and export of goods.
The negative impact comes from so-called "non-tariff barriers" - time consuming and sometimes complicated new paperwork that businesses have to fill out when importing and exporting to the EU.
Immigration was a key theme in the 2016 referendum campaign, centred on freedom of movement within the EU, under which UK and EU citizens could freely move to visit, study, work and live.
There has been a big fall in EU immigration and EU net migration (immigration minus emigration), external since the referendum and this accelerated after 2020 due to the end of freedom of movement.
But there have been large increases in net migration from the rest of the world since 2020
The working assumption of the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), external, the government's independent official forecaster, is still that Brexit in the long-term will reduce exports and imports of goods and services by 15% relative to otherwise. It has held this view since 2016, including under the previous Government.
And the OBR's other working assumption is that the fall in trade relative to otherwise will reduce the long-term size of the UK economy by around 4% relative to otherwise, equivalent to roughly £100bn in today's money.
The OBR says it could revise both these assumptions based on new evidence and studies. The estimated negative economic impact could come down if the trade impact judged to be less severe. Yet there is no evidence, so far, to suggest that it will turn into a positive impact.
After Brexit, the UK has been able to strike its own trade deals with other countries.
There have been new trade deals with Australia and New Zealand and the government has been pursuing new agreements with the US and India.
But their impact on the economy is judged by the government's own official impact assessments to be small relative to the negative impact on UK- EU trade.
Source- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdrynjz1glpo

-- Edited by Fluffy on Thursday 24th of July 2025 11:54:36 AM

In light of the BBC's exposure as a hypocritical, woke, paedo supporting, leftie and manipulative source I wouldn't take anything they report as gospel.

Maddog · Go Outside

Fluffy wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
I've missed this but I haven't been watching the News lately (except seeing Starmer snivel under scrutiny about his appalling policies ). Is there a link or just tell me what to google. We ARE much poorer than other countries though, so what is the reason if not Brexit?
Got it, tap the blue words for links. Okey dokey!

-- Edited by Fluffy on Wednesday 23rd of July 2025 10:41:02 PM
What do you mean by poorer?
This is from.a BBC source from this year as you like stats !
Economists and analysts generally assess the impact of leaving the EU single market and customs union on 1 Jan 2021 on the UK's goods trade as having been negative.
This is despite the fact that the UK negotiated a free trade deal with the EU and avoided tariffs - or taxes - being imposed on the import and export of goods.
The negative impact comes from so-called "non-tariff barriers" - time consuming and sometimes complicated new paperwork that businesses have to fill out when importing and exporting to the EU.
Immigration was a key theme in the 2016 referendum campaign, centred on freedom of movement within the EU, under which UK and EU citizens could freely move to visit, study, work and live.
There has been a big fall in EU immigration and EU net migration (immigration minus emigration), external since the referendum and this accelerated after 2020 due to the end of freedom of movement.
But there have been large increases in net migration from the rest of the world since 2020
The working assumption of the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), external, the government's independent official forecaster, is still that Brexit in the long-term will reduce exports and imports of goods and services by 15% relative to otherwise. It has held this view since 2016, including under the previous Government.
And the OBR's other working assumption is that the fall in trade relative to otherwise will reduce the long-term size of the UK economy by around 4% relative to otherwise, equivalent to roughly £100bn in today's money.
The OBR says it could revise both these assumptions based on new evidence and studies. The estimated negative economic impact could come down if the trade impact judged to be less severe. Yet there is no evidence, so far, to suggest that it will turn into a positive impact.
After Brexit, the UK has been able to strike its own trade deals with other countries.
There have been new trade deals with Australia and New Zealand and the government has been pursuing new agreements with the US and India.
But their impact on the economy is judged by the government's own official impact assessments to be small relative to the negative impact on UK- EU trade.
Source- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdrynjz1glpo

-- Edited by Fluffy on Thursday 24th of July 2025 11:54:36 AM

Your trade may have declined but that doesn't mean you it your country are much poorer than other countries, just poorer than you might have been without Brexit. Although I'm not 100% sure if that..

Fluffy · Getting Gobby

Digger wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
I've missed this but I haven't been watching the News lately (except seeing Starmer snivel under scrutiny about his appalling policies ). Is there a link or just tell me what to google. We ARE much poorer than other countries though, so what is the reason if not Brexit?
Got it, tap the blue words for links. Okey dokey!

-- Edited by Fluffy on Wednesday 23rd of July 2025 10:41:02 PM
What do you mean by poorer?
This is from.a BBC source from this year as you like stats !
Economists and analysts generally assess the impact of leaving the EU single market and customs union on 1 Jan 2021 on the UK's goods trade as having been negative.
This is despite the fact that the UK negotiated a free trade deal with the EU and avoided tariffs - or taxes - being imposed on the import and export of goods.
The negative impact comes from so-called "non-tariff barriers" - time consuming and sometimes complicated new paperwork that businesses have to fill out when importing and exporting to the EU.
Immigration was a key theme in the 2016 referendum campaign, centred on freedom of movement within the EU, under which UK and EU citizens could freely move to visit, study, work and live.
There has been a big fall in EU immigration and EU net migration (immigration minus emigration), external since the referendum and this accelerated after 2020 due to the end of freedom of movement.
But there have been large increases in net migration from the rest of the world since 2020
The working assumption of the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), external, the government's independent official forecaster, is still that Brexit in the long-term will reduce exports and imports of goods and services by 15% relative to otherwise. It has held this view since 2016, including under the previous Government.
And the OBR's other working assumption is that the fall in trade relative to otherwise will reduce the long-term size of the UK economy by around 4% relative to otherwise, equivalent to roughly £100bn in today's money.
The OBR says it could revise both these assumptions based on new evidence and studies. The estimated negative economic impact could come down if the trade impact judged to be less severe. Yet there is no evidence, so far, to suggest that it will turn into a positive impact.
After Brexit, the UK has been able to strike its own trade deals with other countries.
There have been new trade deals with Australia and New Zealand and the government has been pursuing new agreements with the US and India.
But their impact on the economy is judged by the government's own official impact assessments to be small relative to the negative impact on UK- EU trade.
Source- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdrynjz1glpo

-- Edited by Fluffy on Thursday 24th of July 2025 11:54:36 AM
In light of the BBC's exposure as a hypocritical, woke, paedo supporting, leftie and manipulative source I wouldn't take anything they report as gospel.

I blame my mother. I was raised watching the BBC.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Oh, I think the BBC can be relied on to report many things correctly, just don't expect them to out their own child molesters, rapists or crooks.

Digger · Admin

Syl wrote:
Oh, I think the BBC can be relied on to report many things correctly, just don't expect them to out their own child molesters, rapists or crooks.

I think they are incredibly biased. They are bringing out yet another English historical series with yet another black person playing an historical white person. It's fucking tedious and racist. Can you imagine the furore if the opposite was applied? Yet it's OK to insult our culture.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Digger wrote:
Syl wrote:
Oh, I think the BBC can be relied on to report many things correctly, just don't expect them to out their own child molesters, rapists or crooks.
I think they are incredibly biased. They are bringing out yet another English historical series with yet another black person playing an historical white person. It's fucking tedious and racist. Can you imagine the furore if the opposite was applied? Yet it's OK to insult our culture.

They are certainly biased when it comes to race and sex.

I listen to local BBC radio, when interviewing people in the street, they very seldom pick a white Brit to give an opinion.

Magica · Go Outside

Sick of the having a white historic person played by a black person.

Will they have a white Marin Luther King? Betcha no! Very biased.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Magica wrote:
Sick of the having a white historic person played by a black person.

Will they have a white Marin Luther King? Betcha no! Very biased.

Though...both Laurence Olivier and Anthony Hopkins have blacked up to play Othello, and in some little known TV film, actor Ralph Fiennes has even played Micheal Jackson.

Magica · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Magica wrote:
Sick of the having a white historic person played by a black person.

Will they have a white Marin Luther King? Betcha no! Very biased.
Though...both Laurence Olivier and Anthony Hopkins have blacked up to play Othello, and in some little known TV film, actor Ralph Fiennes has even played Micheal Jackson.

That was before they had Asian actors. Fiennes playing MJ is ridiculous.

-- Edited by Magica on Sunday 27th of July 2025 11:33:33 AM

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
Magica wrote:
Sick of the having a white historic person played by a black person.

Will they have a white Marin Luther King? Betcha no! Very biased.
Though...both Laurence Olivier and Anthony Hopkins have blacked up to play Othello, and in some little known TV film, actor Ralph Fiennes has even played Micheal Jackson.
That was before they had Asian actors. Fiennes playing MJ is ridiculous.

-- Edited by Magica on Sunday 27th of July 2025 11:33:33 AM

It was ridiculous, God knows why they did it...in the same film they cast Stockard Channing ( Rizzo in Grease) as Liz Taylor.

Mags, there have always been black and asian actors, they just didn't get the starring roles back then, save a couple of exceptions.

Magica · Go Outside

Syl wrote:
Magica wrote:
Syl wrote:
Magica wrote:
Sick of the having a white historic person played by a black person.

Will they have a white Marin Luther King? Betcha no! Very biased.
Though...both Laurence Olivier and Anthony Hopkins have blacked up to play Othello, and in some little known TV film, actor Ralph Fiennes has even played Micheal Jackson.
That was before they had Asian actors. Fiennes playing MJ is ridiculous.

-- Edited by Magica on Sunday 27th of July 2025 11:33:33 AM
It was ridiculous, God knows why they did it...in the same film they cast Stockard Channing ( Rizzo in Grease) as Liz Taylor.
Mags, there have always been black and asian actors, they just didn't get the starring roles back then, save a couple of exceptions.

Yes, I make me you right