ChaoticMusings

Fluffy wrote:

What's frightening is the surface content (Google, Wikipedia etc) makes up only 30% of the internet. The Dark Web that most people can't access makes up the majority. I only have my knowledge of it from YouTube content creators who go on there and obviously have to censor images of cruelty to animals or websites where men post their ex girlfriends address and photo and pay men to pay her a visit. Hopefully sites like that are a hoax but not all of them are. No, not all of them. 

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 Think you might be mixing up the Deep Web (most of of the Internet) and the Dark Web (where a lot of bad people hang out but also whistle blowers and people fighting government tyranny) which is a fraction of total Internet content.

I always get a little conflicted when conversations discussing the manosphere / incels come up. There are some broken and dangerous men out there who need to be isolated from society given the danger they pose. Some of them are incels. However, maybe many young men never started out that way, aren't really a danger and are just struggling with a world which doesn't seem to care about them, and does not support them as they struggle. 

There is a strong narrative out there which suggests men are inherently dangerous and to be feared. Sure, we all have the capacity for tremendous violence but also great heroism, honour and duty. Maybe young men need hope for a better future so they don't end up killing themselves, or others, in their pain. 

Barksdale wrote:

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Fluffy wrote:

What's frightening is the surface content (Google, Wikipedia etc) makes up only 30% of the internet. The Dark Web that most people can't access makes up the majority. I only have my knowledge of it from YouTube content creators who go on there and obviously have to censor images of cruelty to animals or websites where men post their ex girlfriends address and photo and pay men to pay her a visit. Hopefully sites like that are a hoax but not all of them are. No, not all of them. 

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 Think you might be mixing up the Deep Web (most of of the Internet) and the Dark Web (where a lot of bad people hang out but also whistle blowers and people fighting government tyranny) which is a fraction of total Internet content.

I always get a little conflicted when conversations discussing the manosphere / incels come up. There are some broken and dangerous men out there who need to be isolated from society given the danger they pose. Some of them are incels. However, maybe many young men never started out that way, aren't really a danger and are just struggling with a world which doesn't seem to care about them, and does not support them as they struggle. 

There is a strong narrative out there which suggests men are inherently dangerous and to be feared. Sure, we all have the capacity for tremendous violence but also great heroism, honour and duty. Maybe young men need hope for a better future so they don't end up killing themselves, or others, in their pain. 

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 "In the Western world, males die by suicide three to four times more often than do females."

Maddog wrote:

"In the Western world, males die by suicide three to four times more often than do females."

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 I know of 4 young men under the age of 22 who died by their own hand through my extended social circle (so not direct friends, but friends of friends etc.) One of them was 16 and threw himself in front of a train. There is a small mural created by his friends on a wall not far from where I live in his memory.

A life of possibility gone before it was ever lived.

Barksdale wrote:

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Syl wrote:

What I find uncomfortable is, certain sites on the internet seem to be putting all men in the category of not to be trusted. I occasionally go on one forum, aimed at women, and if someone says so much as they had a row with their husbands, the overwhelming response is 'Leave the bastard, he is no good' etc etc....it's driving a wedge between males and females, which is totally wrong.

I'm sure there are other sites catering for men that preach all women are sluts, money grabbers, users and so on.

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 Yeah, the advice to leave your relationship because you are going through a period of unhappiness is a little special. Relationships all have their ups and downs. 

"A lifetime of happiness! No man alive could bear it, it would be hell on earth" George Bernard Shaw

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 If I had left my OH after every row, I would have needed a revolving front door. ...and after 50 years together, I would be suffering from acute vertigo. 

Maddog wrote:

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Syl wrote:

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Fluffy wrote:

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Barksdale wrote:

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Syl wrote:

I actually think, more than ever, some men just don't like women nowadays.

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 Sadly I think this is true, but it's definitely more pronounced online (and works both ways. Some things I see some women saying about men online is also heinous.) 

I think social media has crowded out people who talk about love and intimacy because it just doesn't grab as much attention as overly sexualised, vitriolic content. It elevates the worst voices and then conditions people to act in a way which may be completely contrary to their best interests. Everything seems to be based around transactional relationships (if I do x for woman I expect her to y in return etc.) Modern dating seems like a complete hellscape. 

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 I forgot Syl said that and it was the most astute comment I've read for a while. The Manosphere has a lot to answer for. They stated why they dislike women now, because they are too independent, claim not to need men, don't cook or clean and do not always conform to traditional gender roles which makes today's young women less "feminine" , not necessarily in their appearance but in their views and behaviour.

But what they left out is what Syl pointed out, young men resent the sexual power women have. I think some men hate women whatever their age but because of the Manosphere young men are actually jealous of women.The Incels in particular pose a danger to women, their scorn is decades deep based on years of perceived rejection.

  You are quite right, there is no "dating" anymore although girls want to date, men just want to spend the night so there is only hook up culture. Men will agree to meet any girl but women are far more picky and meet men they are seeking relationships with not necessarily just one night but apparently they feel pressured to being "cool" when the guy says it's just a one off.

The dreadful dating culture is one reason I'm glad I'm not twenty five anymore!

 

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 Whereas women in the past have accepted not being the chosen ones, (wall flowers, spinsters, and so on) I don't think men have taken to rejection so well.

Thanks to the internet, they are not always the ones doing the picking and the choosing, the more desirable (allegedly) women are choosing the better looking, better off, better placed men (allegedly) to hook up with.
I had never heard of the word incel a year or so ago....like living life through the internet, it's another sign of modern living.

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 20% of the men are getting 80% of the action..

 

It's also not great for women. People used to become attracted by being around others. Looks mattered but personality and other factors kicked in. The internet and it's focus on looks has changed that.

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 That is Incel Rule number 1 and I honestly don't believe it's true. When you go out you see plenty   of  men and women under thirty  in relationships holding hands, sometimes with children and they are just normal looking people. There isn't just a few young couples  who have model looks with the rest of young women and men cowering indoors.

incels have taken this statistic from Andrew Tate just like they take his advice to treat women badly and they wonder why women choose to date their friends not them.

The Incels don't believe anything that isn't told to them by Manosphere sites (search Fresh and Fit on YouTube ,two men who are worshipped but de monetised due to their extreme content and misogyny)and their forums that are basically echo chambers. Young women don't just want Brad Pitt lookalikes who will treat them terribly and won't commit.

Fluffy wrote:

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Maddog wrote:

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Syl wrote:

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Fluffy wrote:

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Barksdale wrote:

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Syl wrote:

I actually think, more than ever, some men just don't like women nowadays.

---

 Sadly I think this is true, but it's definitely more pronounced online (and works both ways. Some things I see some women saying about men online is also heinous.) 

I think social media has crowded out people who talk about love and intimacy because it just doesn't grab as much attention as overly sexualised, vitriolic content. It elevates the worst voices and then conditions people to act in a way which may be completely contrary to their best interests. Everything seems to be based around transactional relationships (if I do x for woman I expect her to y in return etc.) Modern dating seems like a complete hellscape. 

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 I forgot Syl said that and it was the most astute comment I've read for a while. The Manosphere has a lot to answer for. They stated why they dislike women now, because they are too independent, claim not to need men, don't cook or clean and do not always conform to traditional gender roles which makes today's young women less "feminine" , not necessarily in their appearance but in their views and behaviour.

But what they left out is what Syl pointed out, young men resent the sexual power women have. I think some men hate women whatever their age but because of the Manosphere young men are actually jealous of women.The Incels in particular pose a danger to women, their scorn is decades deep based on years of perceived rejection.

  You are quite right, there is no "dating" anymore although girls want to date, men just want to spend the night so there is only hook up culture. Men will agree to meet any girl but women are far more picky and meet men they are seeking relationships with not necessarily just one night but apparently they feel pressured to being "cool" when the guy says it's just a one off.

The dreadful dating culture is one reason I'm glad I'm not twenty five anymore!

 

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 Whereas women in the past have accepted not being the chosen ones, (wall flowers, spinsters, and so on) I don't think men have taken to rejection so well.

Thanks to the internet, they are not always the ones doing the picking and the choosing, the more desirable (allegedly) women are choosing the better looking, better off, better placed men (allegedly) to hook up with.
I had never heard of the word incel a year or so ago....like living life through the internet, it's another sign of modern living.

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 20% of the men are getting 80% of the action..

 

It's also not great for women. People used to become attracted by being around others. Looks mattered but personality and other factors kicked in. The internet and it's focus on looks has changed that.

---

 That is Incel Rule number 1 and I honestly don't believe it's true. When you go out you see plenty   of  men and women under thirty  in relationships holding hands, sometimes with children and they are just normal looking people. There isn't just a few young couples  who have model looks with the rest of young women and men cowering indoors.

incels have taken this statistic from Andrew Tate just like they take his advice to treat women badly and they wonder why women choose to date their friends not them.

The Incels don't believe anything that isn't told to them by Manosphere sites (search Fresh and Fit on YouTube ,two men who are worshipped but de monetised due to their extreme content and misogyny)and their forums that are basically echo chambers. Young women don't just want Brad Pitt lookalikes who will treat them terribly and won't commit.

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 You have it backwards. You seem to think incels are created by Tate.

Incels are a result of a lot of societal issues, and then they find support from Tate. 

If I ever quote anything, rest assured it didn't come from Tate. I will paraphrase Scott Gallagher though..

Barksdale wrote:

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Fluffy wrote:

What's frightening is the surface content (Google, Wikipedia etc) makes up only 30% of the internet. The Dark Web that most people can't access makes up the majority. I only have my knowledge of it from YouTube content creators who go on there and obviously have to censor images of cruelty to animals or websites where men post their ex girlfriends address and photo and pay men to pay her a visit. Hopefully sites like that are a hoax but not all of them are. No, not all of them. 

---

 Think you might be mixing up the Deep Web (most of of the Internet) and the Dark Web (where a lot of bad people hang out but also whistle blowers and people fighting government tyranny) which is a fraction of total Internet content.

I always get a little conflicted when conversations discussing the manosphere / incels come up. There are some broken and dangerous men out there who need to be isolated from society given the danger they pose. Some of them are incels. However, maybe many young men never started out that way, aren't really a danger and are just struggling with a world which doesn't seem to care about them, and does not support them as they struggle. 

There is a strong narrative out there which suggests men are inherently dangerous and to be feared. Sure, we all have the capacity for tremendous violence but also great heroism, honour and duty. Maybe young men need hope for a better future so they don't end up killing themselves, or others, in their pain. 

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 I am indeed.The Dark Web is actually very small and you need a TOR browser,the Deep Web is info behind pay walls, private information about people's financial details etc. But the dark web is indeed a place where stalkers thrive and where the disturbed people involved in child pornography go to meet. It's certainly a male dominated space.

I know there are many wonderful, kind gentlemen in this world. My brother is one and my father was deeply gentle and  romantic, my Mother found  poetry about his love for her after he passed. But he wouldn't know what to think about the world the way it is now. I can understand you feel conflicted when there is so much negative talk about young men and  because not all men are like that. Most have healthy attitudes towards women.

However if you have studied The Manosphere in detail young men are truly being poisoned by older men who should know better,. There are"MGTOW" men (men going their own way) who  have channels looking at photos of their ex wives  and inviting the male audience to join in mocking them. Some hate women so much they refuse to share a society with them. This is called "going off grid" . They have podcasts about how divorce ruined them financially and they don't understand why they have to pay child support for their own children.

It's mainly The Red Pill influencers like Andrew Tate that have the most effect. They put pressure on men to look a certain way and go to the gym, saying women only want men with sculpted bodies. But women are not putting that pressure on men! They say that women deserve less and should not be respected as men make most of the things in the world and women contribute nothing. Teenagers no longer listen to their female teachers, sneering "why should I listen to you? You are  just a woman". It cannot be denied there has been an epidemic of misogyny from western men, hence why the drama series "Adolescence" resonated with so many. 

But of course listening to this empty garbage makes young men very sad, even suicidal. Suicidal incels feel like their life isn't worth living and say they have taken" The Black Pill". I think but of course I can't know, that young men feel.more depressed because this is the first generation whose education was disrupted by Covid, where approaching relationships seems impossible and superficial as it's all dependent on soulless dating apps. They can't confide in their friends of they're lonely because they have been taught "real men" don't talk about their problems.

What these young men need is guidance and compassion before they are lost to the influencers and black pill men saying death would be preferable. Dad 's need to recognise how poisonous social media is and tell their sons it's ok to be who they are and that they are loved just as they are. Reassure them they will find a relationship but it may take time. Sadly not all boys have Dad 's present physically or mentally. But don't think I am not aware of the complexities of the situation and I certainly don't lump all men together, far from it.

Sorry for such a long post!!

Fluffy wrote:

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Maddog wrote:

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Fluffy wrote:

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Maddog wrote:

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Syl wrote:

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Fluffy wrote:

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Barksdale wrote:

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Syl wrote:

I actually think, more than ever, some men just don't like women nowadays.

---

 Sadly I think this is true, but it's definitely more pronounced online (and works both ways. Some things I see some women saying about men online is also heinous.) 

I think social media has crowded out people who talk about love and intimacy because it just doesn't grab as much attention as overly sexualised, vitriolic content. It elevates the worst voices and then conditions people to act in a way which may be completely contrary to their best interests. Everything seems to be based around transactional relationships (if I do x for woman I expect her to y in return etc.) Modern dating seems like a complete hellscape. 

---

 I forgot Syl said that and it was the most astute comment I've read for a while. The Manosphere has a lot to answer for. They stated why they dislike women now, because they are too independent, claim not to need men, don't cook or clean and do not always conform to traditional gender roles which makes today's young women less "feminine" , not necessarily in their appearance but in their views and behaviour.

But what they left out is what Syl pointed out, young men resent the sexual power women have. I think some men hate women whatever their age but because of the Manosphere young men are actually jealous of women.The Incels in particular pose a danger to women, their scorn is decades deep based on years of perceived rejection.

  You are quite right, there is no "dating" anymore although girls want to date, men just want to spend the night so there is only hook up culture. Men will agree to meet any girl but women are far more picky and meet men they are seeking relationships with not necessarily just one night but apparently they feel pressured to being "cool" when the guy says it's just a one off.

The dreadful dating culture is one reason I'm glad I'm not twenty five anymore!

 

---

 Whereas women in the past have accepted not being the chosen ones, (wall flowers, spinsters, and so on) I don't think men have taken to rejection so well.

Thanks to the internet, they are not always the ones doing the picking and the choosing, the more desirable (allegedly) women are choosing the better looking, better off, better placed men (allegedly) to hook up with.
I had never heard of the word incel a year or so ago....like living life through the internet, it's another sign of modern living.

---

 20% of the men are getting 80% of the action..

 

It's also not great for women. People used to become attracted by being around others. Looks mattered but personality and other factors kicked in. The internet and it's focus on looks has changed that.

---

 That is Incel Rule number 1 and I honestly don't believe it's true. When you go out you see plenty   of  men and women under thirty  in relationships holding hands, sometimes with children and they are just normal looking people. There isn't just a few young couples  who have model looks with the rest of young women and men cowering indoors.

incels have taken this statistic from Andrew Tate just like they take his advice to treat women badly and they wonder why women choose to date their friends not them.

The Incels don't believe anything that isn't told to them by Manosphere sites (search Fresh and Fit on YouTube ,two men who are worshipped but de monetised due to their extreme content and misogyny)and their forums that are basically echo chambers. Young women don't just want Brad Pitt lookalikes who will treat them terribly and won't commit.

---

 You have it backwards. You seem to think incels are created by Tate.

 

Incels are a result of a lot of societal issues, and then they find support from Tate. 

 

If I ever quote anything, rest assured it didn't come from Tate. I will paraphrase Scott Gallagher though..

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 What societal issues cause Incels?

And it's not "support" young men get from Tate but pressure to be cold in their thinking towards women and not to consider themselves " real men" if they don't go to the gym and look  as sculpted as possible. He lies to his vulnerable audience, telling them they are better than women and just to "use" them and treat them like trash when young women REALLY want normal boys to have relationships with. with.

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 Well adjusted boys don't give two fucks about what Tate says..

And poorly adjusted boys will do all sorts of shit to themselves and others, without any help from Tate.

Nature abhors a vacuum. People missing something will get sucked in..

Watch the clip from Galloway. He's studied this and is an authority on this..

Tomorrow at 10am Julia Hartley Brewer on Talk TV is interviewing Bonnie Blue.    That should be interesting as Hartley Brewer takes no prisoners