ChaoticMusings

Barksdale · Getting Gobby

RE: Bonnie Blue

Barksdale · Getting Gobby

Digger wrote:

isn't Only Fans accessible only via payment and therefore private?

I believe that is the case (but I cannot be sure as I have never used OF - no really!)

I suppose we could argue that OF has been empowering for women as it has allowed performers to take and control their own content rather than being beholden to male producers / male dominated companies.

However, as the female performers have now become producers then a similar argument applies to them as it would to male producers - you cannot simply profit from your actions but then turn around and say you do not bear any degree of responsibility for what happens as a result of people consuming that content.

Date: Aug 9 10:10 AM, 2025

Syl wrote:

Rape offences have increased dramatically in England and Wales since 2012/13, when there were just over 16,000 offences. After this year, rape offences increased substantially, reaching a peak of 71,670 in 2024/25, the most recent reporting year.

Just to follow up on this - the increase in numbers might be due to changes in the way the police identify and record rape cases. In 2015-16 a review of police crime recording was made by the Government-run HMIC which showed the police were vastly under-recording crime including sexual offences.

As a result of that the police began tightening up on it, and gradual changes were made to improve rape recording.

These included:

Recording rapes even when they weren't reported by the victim themselves, such as by a parent/guardian, or a professional person like a doctor, social worker, psychiatrist etc.

The definition of consent. For instance - it was once thought the woman had to say 'no' or put up some kind of fight to make it obvious the act non-consensual. This has been refined to now include cases where the woman was drunk and lacked the capability to consent (happens a lot these days), or was asleep when it happened, or where she didn't want to have sex with her partner but didn't say no because she feared repercussions if she refused.

Fluffy · Getting Gobby

Barksdale wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
What societal issues cause Incels?
To me this is the really the same question is why do some young men end up strapping a suicide vest on and exploding themselves in a busy shopping centre for their ideology - how does a young man get radicalised?
Well, there could be an underlying mental health condition or feelings of immense loneliness and despair which makes them open to exploitation from a movement which offers them hope and purpose, or an explanation for their suffering. They may be socially isolated so they do not have moderating influences in their real life to talk to and bring them balance. This may lead them to finding their community online which accepts them in a way the real world doesn't and provides a form of distorted therapy. They may feel that the world has passed them by and doesn't care about their suffering whereas when it comes to girls / women there are multitudes of programmes specifically aimed towards helping them. They want to be a provider and a protector but see no realistic prospect of that happening as owning a home or affording to raise a family seems completely out of reach now. They may feel it is impossible to know how to behave around women due to changing gender dynamics or get a girlfriend because women now will only consider a tall, successful, good looking man and not given them a chance.
Who wouldn't opt out in those conditions or if not feel resentful and lash out?
Video games and going to the gym to get very well built is a symptom of the problem - it replaces the promise that work used to fulfill - that is you get your head down, work hard and follow the rules you will succeed in achieving something of value to you. The rules of the game or the rules of training will get you results if you follow them, even though it may be very difficult. Work doesn't do that anymore, and like modern dating, seems very much like the winner takes it all.

Please read this extra long post if you don t mind Avon ,I would appreciate it.

The BIB simply isn't true.This is what influencers like Andrew Tate tell his impressionable young audience. Young women do not demand that men are gorgeous or they won't go out with them. On superficial dating apps everything is dictated by looks. But if you touch grass and take a look around real life tells the real story as it so often does away from the damaging echo chamber that is the Manosphere.

When you go shopping or look on a sunny day for example do you just see a few couples under 25 looking like models? No, there are plenty of young couple's holding hands who look average, sometimes the woman is more plain than the man or the woman more good looking but you don't really study. The truth is airbrushed Instagram pics and The Manosphere would have you believe that there are no normal average young couples. But there are far more young couples,just every day people living their lives than the Manosphere influencers pretend do not exist.

Are they getting married? No, not so much. Women are also having less children or putting it off until their late thirties. That's because of your previous comment which was correct, house prices are absurdly expensive and it is seemingly impossible to get a foot on the housing ladder. Couples cannot afford the luxury of having children . The pandemic also totally ruined their education and took away stability in their lives when teenagers need it the most.

The rules of the game have changed in one way, that a minority of young men have been brainwashed by evil men on the Internet trying to make money and sell them courses . These Influencers don't make video's shaming women and calling them worthless just because they enjoy it (although I'm sure that's a bonus) They sell Incels "courses" on how to woo women which basically tells men to put on an arrogant "Alpha" veneer like Andrew Tate because women "never fall for nice guys" Except of course they do. Because no girl will date an insulting idiot for long.

I'm surprised you think there is any truth to the made up statistics created by these men to ensure clicks and money. Women like taller men, do they absolutely have to.be 6ft or the date is cancelled?No.

Women like a man to be gainfully employed as they are but do they demand men to be earning 6 figures, in other words be a millionaire?? Nope, young women understand that may not be entirely possible(!)

As for the final 6 pertaining to the bedroom men care about size far more than women, again they have been given this inferiority complex by OTHER MEN. As long as men attend to their partners needs as it were everything is fine on that front.

Manosphere Influencers want to sell courses and make money. They drip poison in the ears of men about how awful women are but it's men who create channels putting up photos of women claiming to be happily single so men can tear their looks to shreds in the comments section. It's men who retreat to echo chambers saying how they would love to see their exes attacked and for dumping them because as Andrew Tate reminds them "It's men that are The prize" .

Sorry for the long post but following the disturbing comments from young men saying they would not help a woman being assaulted but in fact relish it I was so shocked I decided to take a look at the more accessible parts of the Manosphere and these men despise women to the point they cannot be reasoned with. What they say is shocking. And their vitriol is not aimed at porn stars or promiscuous women but ordinary girls they asked out who dared to politely decline.

I realise it's just a minority of men but some of these men have killed. Elliot Rodgers killed his flatmates and random male and female students just because women he fancied wouldn't have sex with him.

Digger eluded to female etiquette declining, like women getting drunk swearing and fighting on nights out. Firstly, not all women are like that. (Very few women would go to the toilet in public!! ) I agree it's unseemly to watch and although my friends and I never went that far you can't tarnish all women like that anymore than you can say all men behave like Incels.

The truth is a minority of young men are watching hard-core violent porn and being brainwashed and told lies by Andrew Tate and his ilk on the Internet. They harass women on nights out at best or sexually assault them at worst. The police are aware of them and keeping an eye on the more prolific Incels because these men are criminals, a very small minority of them kill. To hear them being defended is something I have never encountered before. The statistics show sexual assaults on women increased sharply way before Bonnie Blue existed. Women are not to blame for this and to suggest it is morally wrong imo. Parents need to explain to their boys before they are teenagers that the Manosphere is dangerous and wrong and remind them how nice and normal the women they know are. Parental intervention will really help. The drama series "Adolescence" is being shown in schools to try and help young men which may help I honestly don't know. Underage boys ( or girls) can.no longer access porn from any site due to new Government legislation and I think that will also really help but it also sadly shows how disturbing and violent the adult content men choose to watch is.

-- Edited by Fluffy on Saturday 9th of August 2025 10:40:51 AM

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Anonymous wrote:
Syl wrote:

Rape offences have increased dramatically in England and Wales since 2012/13, when there were just over 16,000 offences. After this year, rape offences increased substantially, reaching a peak of 71,670 in 2024/25, the most recent reporting year.

Just to follow up on this - the increase in numbers might be due to changes in the way the police identify and record rape cases. In 2015-16 a review of police crime recording was made by the Government-run HMIC which showed the police were vastly under-recording crime including sexual offences.
As a result of that the police began tightening up on it, and gradual changes were made to improve rape recording.
These included:
Recording rapes even when they weren't reported by the victim themselves, such as by a parent/guardian, or a professional person like a doctor, social worker, psychiatrist etc.
The definition of consent. For instance - it was once thought the woman had to say 'no' or put up some kind of fight to make it obvious the act non-consensual. This has been refined to now include cases where the woman was drunk and lacked the capability to consent (happens a lot these days), or was asleep when it happened, or where she didn't want to have sex with her partner but didn't say no because she feared repercussions if she refused.

Yes, all that could add to the increase. There is never one reason why facts and figures soar, more rapes could be reported and regarded as rape now.

There are also figures around that only a small % of rapes are reported when they happen, many women don't come forward or wait years till they do.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Reading through the thread, I don't think anyone is blaming women who star in porn anymore than they are blaming men who star in porn....and it's certainly never been suggested that men who rape or abuse women are the victims here.

However...every adult is responsible for their own actions, including everyone (unless as Avon said they have been forced) involved in porn, be they the makers, the actors or the consumers.
My mum worked three cleaning jobs to bring up two daughters single-handedly, a minority of women (even back then) would have preferred to sell their bodies (porn, prostitution etc) and make far more money working far less hours)....choosing between money and morals has always been a choice.

Date: Aug 9 12:16 PM, 2025

Barksdale wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
...
People are responsible for their own actions.
This is related to my previous post today but most actions occur due to unconscious motivations that we do not think about. Those motivations can become conditioned through the influences we get from the environment around us and societal messages from say religion, our parents, our community and so on.

Good point. Who has the insight or willingness to admit 'I am not the master in my own house'? We're driven by things we're not consciously aware of.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Anonymous wrote:
Barksdale wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
...
People are responsible for their own actions.
This is related to my previous post today but most actions occur due to unconscious motivations that we do not think about. Those motivations can become conditioned through the influences we get from the environment around us and societal messages from say religion, our parents, our community and so on.

Good point. Who has the insight or willingness to admit 'I am not the master in my own house'? We're driven by things we're not consciously aware of.

Would that defence work in a court? I doubt it.

Barksdale · Getting Gobby

Fluffy wrote:

Please read this extra long post if you don t mind Avon ,I would appreciate it.
The BIB simply isn't true.This is what influencers like Andrew Tate tell his impressionable young audience. Young women do not demand that men are gorgeous or they won't go out with them. On superficial dating apps everything is dictated by looks. But if you touch grass and take a look around real life tells the real story as it so often does away from the damaging echo chamber that is the Manosphere.

Sure, I agree but I was trying to outline what a young man might perceive the case to be about the modern dating scene, especially if they spend most or all their time online trying to get a date. As you say, in real life there are are lot of couples where those dynamics are not in play.

However, when it comes to online dating, I don't think young men are being delusional if they think they are not even getting considered if they don't meet certain requirements, like height for example. Data from Bumble showed 60% of women used height filter to seek out results showing men of only 6 feet and above and only 15% were open to men 5'8 and under. Only 14.5% of US men are over 6 feet tall leading to a small number of men getting most of the attention.

I believe Tinder is also introducing height filters, It can take between 50-100 swipes on Tinder for an average looking man to get 1 match and only 2% of matches lead to a meet up. So it could take anywhere from 2,000 - 6,000 swipes for a single date.

When it comes to online dating at least average young men's dating prospects are getting demolished by women's preferences. Personally I think telling young men they are not seeing reality if they think they have little chance with online dating is a form of gaslighting. Sure, they might get lucky but I think the odds are against them.

Barksdale · Getting Gobby

Syl wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Barksdale wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
People are responsible for their own actions.
This is related to my previous post today but most actions occur due to unconscious motivations that we do not think about. Those motivations can become conditioned through the influences we get from the environment around us and societal messages from say religion, our parents, our community and so on.

Good point. Who has the insight or willingness to admit 'I am not the master in my own house'? We're driven by things we're not consciously aware of.
Would that defence work in a court? I doubt it.

It does sometimes when you plead insansity, diminished responsibility or automatism for example. Personally, I think the law will be reformed at a future point to reflect emerging science which shows we do not have as much free will as we think we do.

There is also some fascinating case studies where people's entire personalities and their way of dealing with the world changes after a head injury. If our actions are dictated by our brain impulses hich we do not have ultimate control over then who is really making the decision?

Fluffy · Getting Gobby

Digger wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Digger wrote:
Vam wrote:
Syl wrote:
She has put herself in the spotlight by her extreme stunts and her interviews. Her goal is money, but the price she is paying is her spirit. That girl looks and sounds emotionless and cold, yet she claims she loves what she does.
I think she is fooling herself, what sane woman wants to be used as a free fuck machine to every man who fancies a quickie? Old, young, fat, thin, dirty, clean, she is being abused, and deep down she knows it.
☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻 - every word
Avon’s right - she seems dead-eyed and totally tuned-out. And is it any wonder?

-- Edited by Vam on Friday 8th of August 2025 01:38:55 PM
In the clips her face hardly moves. She botoxed to the tits.
This I do agree with. I thought she was in her mid thirties, when I learned she was 26 I was shocked 😲
Botox is not for young women, although I think.she had had other non cosmetic procedures that have created that unnatural Mrs Robinson look.
Her self promotion on Instagram is nothing new as other women on.Only Fans link to social media platforms. I predict in time Instagram will become a soft core porn site as so much of the content leans that way and there are so many lingerie companies sponsoring the women etc. That's not really social media is it.
I think she is on some sort of calming medication that give her the spaced out look, possibly a benzodiazepine. Or maybe something recreational. I do think she is hurting herself with this behaviour that has rewarded her with millions of pound's but she won't realise it until later.
. How can we blame today's youth for being more base and less ethical when they are rewarded with huge amounts of money for it? Modern living is morally bankrupt and that generation have to adapt and live in it.
Also a young man (who looks even younger) has also made a million in Only Fans where older gay men are obviously his audience. I haven't seen him critiqued once on television yet his female equivalent is metaphorically lynched. At least we can rely on double standards to be consistent.

isn't Only Fans accessible only via payment and therefore private?

Yes, men have to subscribe to her page and I believe some content is free to.view for subscribers only and others hidden behind a pay wall.

But women and men with OF accounts usually link it to their Instagram so they can make an Instagram post pertaining to what a video on their OF will be about. Im.not on any social.media besides here ! But I know how these things work and the documentary showed BB doing" rage bait "posts which is why she revives death threats.

I don't approve of this at all and this is what makes her the exception to her contemporaries . She will make a short clip saying "I wonder why women's husbands want to f**k me, why can't their wives give them what they want?" She knows this makes ladies really annoyed because she isn't advertising her page like other women , but just being a bitch for the sake of it.

I don't agree with those trolling posts at all but that's what has made her so. infamous.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Barksdale wrote:
Syl wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Barksdale wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
People are responsible for their own actions.
This is related to my previous post today but most actions occur due to unconscious motivations that we do not think about. Those motivations can become conditioned through the influences we get from the environment around us and societal messages from say religion, our parents, our community and so on.

Good point. Who has the insight or willingness to admit 'I am not the master in my own house'? We're driven by things we're not consciously aware of.
Would that defence work in a court? I doubt it.
It does sometimes when you plead insansity, diminished responsibility or automatism for example. Personally, I think the law will be reformed at a future point to reflect emerging science which shows we do not have as much free will as we think we do.
There is also some fascinating case studies where people's entire personalities and their way of dealing with the world changes after a head injury. If our actions are dictated by our brain impulses hich we do not have ultimate control over then who is really making the decision?

I was meaning people who are not in some way mentally impaired enough to not take responsibility for their actions.

Date: Aug 9 5:32 PM, 2025

Syl wrote:
Barksdale wrote:
Syl wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Barksdale wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
People are responsible for their own actions.
This is related to my previous post today but most actions occur due to unconscious motivations that we do not think about. Those motivations can become conditioned through the influences we get from the environment around us and societal messages from say religion, our parents, our community and so on.

Good point. Who has the insight or willingness to admit 'I am not the master in my own house'? We're driven by things we're not consciously aware of.
Would that defence work in a court? I doubt it.
It does sometimes when you plead insansity, diminished responsibility or automatism for example. Personally, I think the law will be reformed at a future point to reflect emerging science which shows we do not have as much free will as we think we do.
There is also some fascinating case studies where people's entire personalities and their way of dealing with the world changes after a head injury. If our actions are dictated by our brain impulses hich we do not have ultimate control over then who is really making the decision?
I was meaning people who are not in some way mentally impaired enough to not take responsibility for their actions.

I wasn't so much talking about people who commit crime - most of us avoid doing illegal stuff - I was thinking about everyday stuff where we think we're in control but we're actually being driven by unconscious impulses, as Barksdale has already mentioned. Haven't you ever thought you probably shouldn't do such-and-such but you end up doing it anyway?

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Sure, we have all done daft things that in hindsight were...well daft.

Making a rash impulsive decision, and being the' master in my own house', which implies far more serious decision making, is different though.

Fluffy · Getting Gobby

Barksdale wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
But Avon it's men who create and watch porn, there is a plethora of violent porn on the internet far worse than Bonnie Blue ffs.
So men want to.watch violent porn so men make and distribute violent porn to satisfy demand and now those same men think less of the women being gagged in the porn they want and chose to see.?
I am not getting this at all. Men can separate real women from what porn stars do and If they don't want to view women in that way they shouldn't deliberately choose to watch porn that depicts women that way..!
I'm bowing out from this because I cannot understand why it's considered ok for men with an I.Q above a carrot to judge apparently ALL women by what women do in the type of porn they choose watch..! If I watched (for example) a man being violent in a porn film I wouldn't decide all men were violent based on the actions of one man in an adult video. Nor would I have done so at 18.
People are responsible for their own actions.
This is related to my previous post today but most actions occur due to unconscious motivations that we do not think about. Those motivations can become conditioned through the influneces we get from the environment around us and societal messages from say religion, our parents, our community and so on.
A declining standard of behaviour in women does create unconscious signals that women are to be less valued as a human beings and are objects instead. This then influences perceptions across society in general.
Yes, we should all be enlightened and take time to examine our motivations and see if what you believe is correct or jutsified. However, most people don't do that on all occasions (I know I don't sometimes.) However, we all have an influence on each other whether we like it or not as we live in societies. Therefore, I think we all have a degree of responsibility for our actions which can harm others.

Sorry Avon, didn't see this response as I was busy typing another essay!

R.E the bit in bold, men's behaviour has also declined dramatically due to the Manosphere, which is literally a movement that celebrates mocking women and it's goal is for society to will embrace the notion that men are superior. Personally I believe sadly it has achieved its aim. I believe both sexes are equal. Rape and sexual assault statistics are up and most ladies don't report out of fear or shame so there will be even more instances than have been reported.

I altered this post as it was too long and It he questions I ask in the post below are more pertinent.. Also I feared you would fall asleep if you had to read my mega waffling much more! Thankyou for replying so readily but my post below WILL be the last to you as I don't like arguing with a poster I respect very much.

-- Edited by Fluffy on Saturday 9th of August 2025 06:10:42 PM

-- Edited by Fluffy on Sunday 10th of August 2025 09:38:40 AM

Fluffy · Getting Gobby

Barksdale wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Barksdale wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
Clearly she is not your normal woman. But Bonnie Blue is not to blame for male rapists abusing women.
No, but she may be responsible for young women having very uncomfortable sexual encounters which although consensual may leave them feeling degraded and skirt the line of sexual assault.
I disagree, there are sex scenes in films (Fifty shades of Grey for example ) which are more likely to influence young women in new things to try sexually as that was a novel and film aimed at women. If Channel 4 hadn't put the spotlight firmly on her to try and get views girls wouldn't even know about her except other female content creators on OnlyFans. Her audience is 100% male.
Bonnie Blue is not responsible for anyone's choices, except her own. I don't like the woman, she is not very empathetic to say the least. But women are gagged tied up and far worse in porn, she is but one If a female viewer of porn saw something different in porn and decided to try it with her steady partner she may enjoy it or if not, they would stop. But ultimately again it would be her choice, not Bonnie Blue's.

What I meant there was that young men who watch porn more than young women may perceive that extreme sexual practices are more common then they are in reality. In addition, they may become conditioned over time to require more extreme acts to become aroused through excessive watching of porn than they would have if they had entered into a sexual relationship with a woman before being exposed to porn.
Then, when they do eventually get initimate with a girl they might expect or pressurise a girl to mimic what he has seen because he cannot be aroused without those acts. The girl may agree because she loves her boyfriend and wants to please him so the acts are consensual. However, she may not enjoy the experience at all.
Of course we are ultimately responsible for our own choices. However, the porn industry and that includes female performers like Bonnie Blue (unless they have been trafficked) who make a profit from it does share some responsibility for the harmful consequences that follow in society. To say otherwise is like a cigarette manufacturer maintaining that it's nothing to do with them if rates of cancer increases because they can't help it if people choose to consume their products.

Do you think that men should take responsibility if they watch a lot of porn (much of it aggressive towards women ) if they are keeping it a secret from their partner? Especially if they can no longer get pleasure without porn?

Your scenario here shows a man pressuring his girlfriend to do sexual acts she may not enjoy that HE can't get aroused without said acts. Then surely the young man has to take responsibility (and some sort of action) concerning his reliance on porn if he cares at all for his girlfriend? Why is it ok for him to.be pressuring her to do something in the bedroom when he knows her boundaries?

You say Bonnie Blue must take responsibility for the harmful effects that occur in society due to the porn she makes ..yet curiously you do not say the man in the fictional account above should take responsibility for his all consuming porn habit. That he actually needs in order to be aroused.

Why do men view porn if it damages their real life relationship so much? Should men consider the repercussions of their choice to watch porn or is that the fault of the woman in the porn video too?

I don't mean to sound annoyed and I'm not, I just get very passionate when all the blame is put on women and I'm honestly interested in your thoughts.

-- Edited by Fluffy on Saturday 9th of August 2025 06:50:29 PM

Fluffy · Getting Gobby

Syl wrote:
Reading through the thread, I don't think anyone is blaming women who star in porn anymore than they are blaming men who star in porn....and it's certainly never been suggested that men who rape or abuse women are the victims here.

However...every adult is responsible for their own actions, including everyone (unless as Avon said they have been forced) involved in porn, be they the makers, the actors or the consumers.
My mum worked three cleaning jobs to bring up two daughters single-handedly, a minority of women (even back then) would have preferred to sell their bodies (porn, prostitution etc) and make far more money working far less hours)....choosing between money and morals has always been a choice.

I totally understand the BIB Syl and I have not been ignoring people's posts just writing tediously long replies to Avon which I'm not sure he appreciates!

I find other people's opinions and perspectives very interesting, as you have said before life would certainly be very dull if we were all the same x

Your Mum sounds like a Saint! My mother also worked very long hours and commuted a long way when considered "old" right up to retirement age. Women in eras before were not just hardworking but dignified and the love they had for their children held no bounds.

Of course mothers still love their children now (though far less ladies choose to have children) but I do agree there has been a decline in standards in behaviour by both sexes. But I think it's more noted in women because women used to hold themselves to such high standards. And they were strong with it.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Men, especially young men who compulsively view porn , probably don't realise it's possibly damaging their real life relationships, till it's too late.
The same as women who use some exotic and energetic artificial aids for sexual pleasure, don't realise they can deaden their response to a mere human penis.

People sometimes are their own worse enemy.

Digger · Admin

Syl wrote:
Men, especially young men who compulsively view porn , probably don't realise it's possibly damaging their real life relationships, till it's too late.
The same as women who use some exotic and energetic artificial aids for sexual pleasure, don't realise they can deaden their response to a mere human penis.

People sometimes are their own worse enemy.

I can't understand sex toys. What the hell is that all about? And why would you prefer it to the real thing?

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Digger wrote:
Syl wrote:
Men, especially young men who compulsively view porn , probably don't realise it's possibly damaging their real life relationships, till it's too late.
The same as women who use some exotic and energetic artificial aids for sexual pleasure, don't realise they can deaden their response to a mere human penis.

People sometimes are their own worse enemy.
I can't understand sex toys. What the hell is that all about? And why would you prefer it to the real thing?

I have no idea, I have never used one. But sometimes, listening to women talk, it seems like many other women, even women with partners, just take them for granted.