ChaoticMusings

Maddog · Go Outside

RE: Charlie Kiirk Shot.

Date: Sep 14 9:34 PM, 2025

Will Starmer take the knee when Charlie Kirk gets buried, showing his support for a white Christian being murdered? I doubt it.

Fluffy · Musing at the Chaos

Vam wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I don't want you to tiptoe around me. I want you to strongly express and defend your beliefs.

To answer your question........

What I do to tone down the increasing rage in my country is to discuss ideas instead of people.

I don't particularly like most of AOCs positions, but I refer to her as AOC not "ghetto bitch Puerto Rican".

I just made that name up, but I'm sure she has been called worse, but she won't be by me..

And when Trump runs his mouth like he is prone to do, I condemn his words without calling him a "fat, orange blob in diapers".

Or at least I try..
(holy shit, Dawg - you ever tried trimming a long sequence of posts down a bit, to save on scrolling?! 🙅🏻‍♀️)
Well, good for you for rising above, I guess.
Whereas me? My instinctive, visceral loathing of trump compels me to verbally slam him every which way I can. That’s because, to my very core, I see him as a demonic entity in human form. He truly is evil personified, imv.
After Wednesday’s horrific event, several politicians on both sides of the aisle were advocating for cooler heads and less rhetoric to prevail.
When trump was asked on Fox News what could be done to unify the country, he replied “I really don’t care.” And he then went on to more or less say the radical Right are entitled to do what they do, but the radical Left are pretty much scum.
I mean, who does that in the immediate wake of such a terrible tragedy? 🤷🏻‍♀️

I missed this Vam and I agree with you 100% that Trump using a friend's passing to cause further division and demonize anyone with a slight leftist agenda is the act of a disturbed frankly dangerous individual and it's so bizarre people can't see it's totally unsuitable rhetoric for the President of the "free" world.

He basically blamed the dangerous left wing rhetoric for all the hatred in the country in his address.. I actually think the left are being FAR too passive in America( one Democrat politician was killed and a Democrat lady severely injured and Trump said zip nada about this..But the right including the late Kirk mocked her injuries in social media, injuries she will never be free from, saying "at least he knew what to wear for Halloween now!) The lack of empathy shown towards democrats slaughtered or injured by the rife political violence by the current administration is very telling. (MD will demand proof of this and I can supply it but sorry, it's an Owen Jones video )

As for the widow she isn't the submissive trad lady I was thinking Kirk would demand in a wife. I do agree with some of your points albeit reluctantly as everyone acts differently feeling such deep grief. What concerned me was at one point she sounded as if she was waging war with all the fire and brimstone at a movement NOT the one person who killed her husband (who obviously she has every right to hate with all her being).

I fear this is just what Trump and the extreme right feel they need to try and silence ANY left media or individual, no matter how tame. He wants a white, Conservative government AND country. He was doing his bit to hound out anyone who looked different to him, now he will wield Kirk 's death as a weapon to challenge any white people who dare to think differently too.

-- Edited by Fluffy on Monday 15th of September 2025 01:14:45 AM

Fluffy · Musing at the Chaos

Maddog wrote:
Vam wrote:
To be clear, I was shocked and saddened that Charlie Kirk’s young life was so brutally cut short. As Syl said a few pages back, no one deserves that.
And of course his widow has every right to grieve in whatever way she sees fit. But that doesn’t mean I have to agree with every move she makes.
Judging by her creepy, almost menacing, public statements barely 48hrs after her husband was killed, and now this public weeping over his open casket, my prediction is that she’s more than ready willing and able to pick up and handle what her husband left behind. And she will probably prove to be much more far-Right than he was, btw.
The Turning Point USA behemoth will keep trundling on - gotta keep monetising that awful tragedy. Almost $3million raised for the Kirk family, so far, even though Charlie’s personal wealth was (reportedly) around $12million.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/americans-shatter-fundraising-records-after-charlie-kirks-tragic-death-university-event
As I’ve said before, evangelicals and trump must be ecstatic right about now. Because that pimply dipshit kid and his rifle have probably gifted Republicans a resounding win in the 2026 midterms.
I would say its the lefts reaction.

People are watching other people be nasty, while the mourners haven't burned a city.

As always, the left cant.stop kicking the ball in their own fucking net..

I would say that itcertainly isn't.. The left in your country will be feeling nothing but fear right now since their President meant to act in the interests of everyone in the country has blamed ALL individuals who happen to be left wing for the killing ONE left wing man carried out.

He's a warmonger who tries to condemn others when casualties and hostilities occur, all of his own making.

-- Edited by Fluffy on Monday 15th of September 2025 01:29:38 AM

Vam · Go Outside.

”What concerned me was at one point she sounded as if she was waging war with all the fire and brimstone at a movement NOT the one person who killed her husband (who obviously she has every right to hate with all her being).”

Exactly that, Fluffster. Her comments in those couple of clips I posted pages back were very telling and clearly laid out how this is going to roll, and how this terrible event will be exploited all the way to next year’s midterms.

As Syl has said, when the cameras are turned off, she’s alone with harrowing thoughts of her devastating loss. I truly don’t envy her that! But when the cameras are on, she clearly means business.

And - as though Charlie was miraculously sending down manna from heaven - it seems they’ve now discovered a ‘trans’ person, who the shooter seems to have been in a ‘romantic roommate’ relationship with.

So even though the dipshit kid came from a seemingly normal family who were all registered Republicans, is white, wasn’t an illegal, and wasn’t transitioning, the investigation has now revealed a cherished trans in the mix.

🥳 YAY - a trans! Praise Jesus!! 🙏🏼 Let the gaslighting begin….

Barksdale · Musing at the Chaos

Fluffy wrote:

I would say that itcertainly isn't.. The left in your country will be feeling nothing but fear right now since their President meant to act in the interests of everyone in the country has blamed ALL individuals who happen to be left wing for the killing ONE left wing man carried out.
He's a warmonger who tries to condemn others when casualties and hostilities occur, all of his own making.

It's not the "left" or the "right." It's the radicalised elements of both ends of the spectrum which is causing damage. Unfortunately one end of that radicalised political spectrum (MAGA) hold political power and we can see the devastation they are causing with our own eyes.

Clearly parts of the left are truly idiotic. People really do not like being mischaracterised so calling them Nazis and fascists is a road to nowhere. Celebrating someone's death or trying to political violence also will turn people away from you. Property damage and looting for your cause is a non-starter.

However, the MAGA right is one of the most morally bankrupt movements who lack good character that I can remember. They reject the notion that freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences and cancel culture, yet are now busily trying to get people sacked from their jobs for posting (admittedly distasteful) Tiktoks. They constantly tell people from minority communities to take accountability and reject victimhood but never want to be held accoutable for goading and provoking others or contributing to a culture where political fragmentation worsens, say that racism doesn't exist except for when it comes to white people when it does magically exist and they are the victims. They routinely gaslight people who don't agree with them (on both left and right) and say their emotional reaction is not valid or overblown, it's not that bad, can't you take a joke?

After Charlottesville Trump seemed to know that we should consider whether it is sensible to only look at one side of the political spectrum but now wishes to target the left. He conveniently seems to have changed his mind now he is in power.

A country based on the perception of unfairness cannot stand and unfairness can radicalises people. The desire for fairness is fundamental to us as human beings. The damage that is being done in this regard by the MAGA right makes this perception much worse for America. I don't think it is irreparable but recovery will take a very long time.

Vam · Go Outside.

Anonymous wrote:
Ps. Why am I not surprised. I see someone using as there avatar a well known antisemitic trope: an image implying the Zionist / Jewish control of the world used by the NAZIs and others.

🙄 Again with the Nazi shite. This is getting tedious, but okay…

Art can often elicit differing interpretations. To me, this avatar depicts the billionaires serving in trump’s administration (13 at the last count, I think), along with his cabal of tech bros, and a myriad of other self-serving opportunists. All of whom are currently shafting the American people.

But don‘t just take my word for it. Here’s part of what the artist himself has said about his work:

”A group of conservatives do not like my mural and are playing a race card with me. My mural is about class and privilege.The banker group is made up of Jewish and white Anglos. For some reason, they are saying I am anti-Semitic. This I am most definitely not ….what I am against is class.”

-- Edited by Vam on Monday 15th of September 2025 09:04:09 AM

Barksdale · Musing at the Chaos

@ Vam, I think your may not be aware that your current avatar plays on an anti-semitic trope (I think it's the same image that caused Jeremy Corbyn so much blowback.)

Edit: I can see that you have provided clarification now, thanks.

-- Edited by Barksdale on Monday 15th of September 2025 09:01:06 AM

Vam · Go Outside.

Thanks but it’s no biggie, Avon. I regularly change my avis anyway.

Although, random Anon/Anons lobbing ‘Nazi’ accusations at me kinda makes me want to hang onto this one a bit longer than intended…😈 (but I won’t)

Date: Sep 15 9:32 AM, 2025

Vam wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Ps. Why am I not surprised. I see someone using as there avatar a well known antisemitic trope: an image implying the Zionist / Jewish control of the world used by the NAZIs and others.
🙄 Again with the Nazi shite. This is getting tedious, but okay…
Art can often elicit differing interpretations. To me, this avatar depicts the billionaires serving in trump’s administration (13 at the last count, I think), along with his cabal of tech bros, and a myriad of other self-serving opportunists. All of whom are currently shafting the American people.
But don‘t just take my word for it. Here’s part of what the artist himself has said about his work:
”A group of conservatives do not like my mural and are playing a race card with me. My mural is about class and privilege.The banker group is made up of Jewish and white Anglos. For some reason, they are saying I am anti-Semitic. This I am most definitely not ….what I am against is class.”

-- Edited by Vam on Monday 15th of September 2025 09:04:09 AM

So you did know what you were doing but refuse to accept it was antisemitic.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/anti-semitic-mural-that-jeremy-corbyn-commented-rpZr6_2/

ps: I don't dislike you, I am grateful that you maintain a dialogue. It is what it is.

Fluffy · Musing at the Chaos

Anonymous wrote:
Will Starmer take the knee when Charlie Kirk gets buried, showing his support for a white Christian being murdered? I doubt it.

Well no ,because taking the knee was to show solidarity and support for BLK (Black Lives Matter)and Kirk was white.

White people, usually men, historically killed and enslaved people of colour whipped them, made them work for no pay, black ladies were often kept alive only to be sexually assaulted by white male land owners who employed them as slaves, nannies, cooks, cleaners, and they were often given a good slap (to put it )mildly. Why? Because people of colour were considered not just inferior to white people but to be barely people at all. They weren't permitted to drink from the same water fountain as if they were somehow contaminated. Later on, their property was burnt down and crosses set alight in their lawn by the KKK who believed in white supremacy and were furious that poc were struggling to have some semblance of a life. I know you were aware of all that Anon but your implication of the hypocrisy of the BLM movement suggests that you don't. By taking the knee white people are attempting to apologise and atone for the tide of historical slaying , enslaving and barbaric treatment of black people for no reason at all except they had a different skin colour.

There was segregation even during the Windrush era in England even though Jamaican men and men from other countries thought fiercely aside British troops in the War. Many gave their lives for their previous "Masters" , dying in combat for the Mother country. That still wasn't enough to merit them a place next to a white person at the cinema or on a bus.

Sorry if people reading think I was too graphic but there is a reason Kirk 's extreme right rhetoric was considered going too far. Those pleased by his demise were totally in the wrong but Kirk was not a martyr, although Trump and his administration will try to frame him as one. Some may claim his views and therefore his personality was not a particularly pleasant one.

There is a reason people decide to take the knee, the historical mass murder and enslavement of people of colour and I think it would serve those who have every right to disagree with the movement to at least respect it.

Fluffy · Musing at the Chaos

Vam wrote:
”What concerned me was at one point she sounded as if she was waging war with all the fire and brimstone at a movement NOT the one person who killed her husband (who obviously she has every right to hate with all her being).”
Exactly that, Fluffster. Her comments in those couple of clips I posted pages back were very telling and clearly laid out how this is going to roll, and how this terrible event will be exploited all the way to next year’s midterms.
As Syl has said, when the cameras are turned off, she’s alone with harrowing thoughts of her devastating loss. I truly don’t envy her that! But when the cameras are on, she clearly means business.
And - as though Charlie was miraculously sending down manna from heaven - it seems they’ve now discovered a ‘trans’ person, who the shooter seems to have been in a ‘romantic roommate’ relationship with.
So even though the dipshit kid came from a seemingly normal family who were all registered Republicans, is white, wasn’t an illegal, and wasn’t transitioning, the investigation has now revealed a cherished trans in the mix.
🥳 YAY - a trans! Praise Jesus!! 🙏🏼 Let the gaslighting begin….

Good Morning Vam, although it may not be morning where you are!If a trans person was in any way involved with the shooter that will be weaponised for all its worth and as you say gaslighting and mob rule will take over. We are living in truly Orwellian times and as the pace ramps up and the extreme rhetoric from.The right becomes more normalised I dread to think what will be the end result.

forgive me for this detour but I fear that the slaying of Kirk (which was obviously totally unforgivable) will have a knock on effect here in the UK. Already illegal immigrants are being demonized for breathing British air when it is the fault of all Governments for too much immigration especially the Tories for allowing this problem to mount into a monstrous backlog and just wasting billions on sending them to Rwanda which is not considered a safe haven for anyone under any circumstances and not one place ever took off. All taxpayers money. The actual stats of migration in this country is 96% is legal and 4% illegal but people are more likely to believe it's the other way around (This statistic revealed on LBC by James O Brien and can be fact checked). The left wing media are too passive imo and should shout this from the rooftops so people can be more informed.

British people of different ethnicities have cited being verbally abused in the street and even attacked as people assume they are a migrant (or frankly, a dangerous minority want to hurt people of different ethnicities to themselves)

I know this narrative makes people uncomfortable but I fear the slaying of Kirk will be used by the minority of true racists like Tommy Robinson to incite yet more political violence which will become personal.The left will be attacked verbally on social media by association if their face (race )fits and people of different ethnicities who were fearful prior to this will be attacked actually, with more regularity, the bigots knowing they have a underlying silent but sinister support system to do so.

Sorry for the ramble but I do fear that what is inevitable in The States will happen here as the extreme right, led by millionaire Farage who openly intends to send women and children back to Taliban and paying them for the privilege does so with his voters tacit approval. What is happening in the West right now chills me to the bone, and I see no way to prevent it.

Fluffy · Musing at the Chaos

Barksdale wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
I would say that itcertainly isn't.. The left in your country will be feeling nothing but fear right now since their President meant to act in the interests of everyone in the country has blamed ALL individuals who happen to be left wing for the killing ONE left wing man carried out.
He's a warmonger who tries to condemn others when casualties and hostilities occur, all of his own making.
It's not the "left" or the "right." It's the radicalised elements of both ends of the spectrum which is causing damage. Unfortunately one end of that radicalised political spectrum (MAGA) hold political power and we can see the devastation they are causing with our own eyes.
Clearly parts of the left are truly idiotic. People really do not like being mischaracterised so calling them Nazis and fascists is a road to nowhere. Celebrating someone's death or trying to political violence also will turn people away from you. Property damage and looting for your cause is a non-starter.
However, the MAGA right is one of the most morally bankrupt movements who lack good character that I can remember. They reject the notion that freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences and cancel culture, yet are now busily trying to get people sacked from their jobs for posting (admittedly distasteful) Tiktoks. They constantly tell people from minority communities to take accountability and reject victimhood but never want to be held accoutable for goading and provoking others or contributing to a culture where political fragmentation worsens, say that racism doesn't exist except for when it comes to white people when it does magically exist and they are the victims. They routinely gaslight people who don't agree with them (on both left and right) and say their emotional reaction is not valid or overblown, it's not that bad, can't you take a joke?
After Charlottesville Trump seemed to know that we should consider whether it is sensible to only look at one side of the political spectrum but now wishes to target the left. He conveniently seems to have changed his mind now he is in power.
A country based on the perception of unfairness cannot stand and unfairness can radicalises people. The desire for fairness is fundamental to us as human beings. The damage that is being done in this regard by the MAGA right makes this perception much worse for America. I don't think it is irreparable but recovery will take a very long time.

Morning Avon x Again I agree with all you have said especially of course how transparently morally bankrupt MAGA are.

As for recovery I honestly don't think Trump wants that or anything like that. Recovery would mean accepting people who look and think differently to him being treated the same as white Republicans and it was his intention when he was made President to crush anyone who not just opposed his views but anyone who looked or thought differently to silence them however he could.

Kirk's assassin has made his abhorrent mission so much easier. All right wing commentators (and Kirk 's widow,)are talking about vengeance , how it will be swift and without mercy and worse than.before. As Vam and I agreed it's as if they blame the entire left wing for his death not the actual assailant.

Trump and the extreme right don't want recovery within America.They want war.

Fluffy · Musing at the Chaos

Barksdale wrote:
Fluffy wrote:
I would say that itcertainly isn't.. The left in your country will be feeling nothing but fear right now since their President meant to act in the interests of everyone in the country has blamed ALL individuals who happen to be left wing for the killing ONE left wing man carried out.
He's a warmonger who tries to condemn others when casualties and hostilities occur, all of his own making.
It's not the "left" or the "right." It's the radicalised elements of both ends of the spectrum which is causing damage. Unfortunately one end of that radicalised political spectrum (MAGA) hold political power and we can see the devastation they are causing with our own eyes.
Clearly parts of the left are truly idiotic. People really do not like being mischaracterised so calling them Nazis and fascists is a road to nowhere. Celebrating someone's death or trying to political violence also will turn people away from you. Property damage and looting for your cause is a non-starter.
However, the MAGA right is one of the most morally bankrupt movements who lack good character that I can remember. They reject the notion that freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences and cancel culture, yet are now busily trying to get people sacked from their jobs for posting (admittedly distasteful) Tiktoks. They constantly tell people from minority communities to take accountability and reject victimhood but never want to be held accoutable for goading and provoking others or contributing to a culture where political fragmentation worsens, say that racism doesn't exist except for when it comes to white people when it does magically exist and they are the victims. They routinely gaslight people who don't agree with them (on both left and right) and say their emotional reaction is not valid or overblown, it's not that bad, can't you take a joke?
After Charlottesville Trump seemed to know that we should consider whether it is sensible to only look at one side of the political spectrum but now wishes to target the left. He conveniently seems to have changed his mind now he is in power.
A country based on the perception of unfairness cannot stand and unfairness can radicalises people. The desire for fairness is fundamental to us as human beings. The damage that is being done in this regard by the MAGA right makes this perception much worse for America. I don't think it is irreparable but recovery will take a very long time.

I also hope those of anyone disagree's with this post in general by Avon (especially the assertion in the BIB that MAGA is morally bankrupt ) respond to it aswell posts by myself which aren't phrased as well and easier to pick holes in.

Fluffy · Musing at the Chaos

Digger wrote:
Vam wrote:
I’m trying not to be judgy, and I’m still making allowances for the fact that Erika Kirk is deeply mourning her loss. But is this ‘Hallmark movie‘ grieving? 😳 And then posting it on Instagram? Sorry, but for me it’s no…..just no……
https://x.com/patriotug2023/status/1966868118283964683?s=61
What do you think?
In this day and age younger people chronicle just about everything on line. Not something I'd do but then I'm from a different generation as are you, and most of us on here.
It's her choice, and it's a deliberate fuck you to all the trolls who laughed at his death. It's no doubt designed to garner even more sympathy, which I personally don't think she needs, she has it anyway from most people.

I agree it's her choice to chronicle her mourning on line if she chooses but she is not young enough like the teenagers and young twenty somethings who really do think it's vital and commonplace to document everything on line. She has done it because her husband has just been slain and was a public figure , as you say she knows she has everyone 's sympathy and is in the position to say whatever she chooses without consequence for her. Anyone who is confused by her apparent hostility and promises of retribution towards people other than her husband's assailant (who is evidently the only person to blame ) will likely be given very short shrift.

I want to apologise for not responding to some of your posts Digs, my tablet really is from the Ark and I do not see everything when we are all typing at once. Hence why I have catched up a little this morning.

Vam · Go Outside.

Fluffy…” Trump and the extreme right don't want recovery within America.They want war. “

Again,

The civil unrest he’s constantly been trying to incite since Charlie Kirk’s assassination, would give him the perfect excuse to invoke the Insurrection Act. (That‘s a stunt he’ll very likely try to pull as the midterms draw closer anyway)

In fairness, many politicians from both sides of the aisle have been advocating for compromise and unity. And that can only be a good thing.

But it’s all gotta come from the top. While the White House’s Inciter-in-Chief continues to flap his gums about the ‘radical Leftist scum’, very little progress will be made.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Trumps ear nick possibly won him the presidency, with that way of thinking, I can imagine this tragedy will be like manna sent from heaven for him.

Vam · Go Outside.

Anonymous wrote:
Vam wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Ps. Why am I not surprised. I see someone using as there avatar a well known antisemitic trope: an image implying the Zionist / Jewish control of the world used by the NAZIs and others.
🙄 Again with the Nazi shite. This is getting tedious, but okay…
Art can often elicit differing interpretations. To me, this avatar depicts the billionaires serving in trump’s administration (13 at the last count, I think), along with his cabal of tech bros, and a myriad of other self-serving opportunists. All of whom are currently shafting the American people.
But don‘t just take my word for it. Here’s part of what the artist himself has said about his work:
”A group of conservatives do not like my mural and are playing a race card with me. My mural is about class and privilege.The banker group is made up of Jewish and white Anglos. For some reason, they are saying I am anti-Semitic. This I am most definitely not ….what I am against is class.”

-- Edited by Vam on Monday 15th of September 2025 09:04:09 AM

So you did know what you were doing but refuse to accept it was antisemitic.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/anti-semitic-mural-that-jeremy-corbyn-commented-rpZr6_2/
ps: I don't dislike you, I am grateful that you maintain a dialogue. It is what it is.

Yes, to both. Read my post again, if that helps (including the artist‘s own comments). There was absolutely no anti-Semitic intent on my part.

Is this where I’m supposed to say ”Some of my best friends are Jewish!” 😂 I won’t say that, but I will say, prior to meeting my late husband, I was in a 5-year relationship with a practising Jewish man. He wasn’t fanatically devout, but he did take his religion quite seriously. A Catholic woman with a long-term Jewish partner - imagine that! The food was great though, tbf. And our walk up and down the Via Dolorosa in Jerusalem was particularly memorable 😂 But that’s another story…

If you’ve seen my posts throughout the Trump thread, you’ll probably better understand my motivation behind choosing that particular avatar for a while. The fact is, irrespective of their ethnicity/religious affiliations, trump and his moneyed cabal have a chokehold on America and are systematically shafting the American people, one Executive Order at a time.

Barksdale · Musing at the Chaos

Fluffy wrote:
Trump and the extreme right don't want recovery within America.They want war.

I think the common thread is white Christian Nationalism rather than war.

There is an idea that the civil rights movement has gone too far, that (liberal) women and minorities have obtained so much in terms of opportunities and power that the white majority are now under siege and being ruled by these groups. There is a desire to go back to the idea of one nation under God where white (usually men) dictated the direction of the nation, guided by Christian principles where liberal women and minorities are welcome so long as they do not challenge the domininat paradigm.

So, you get people going on about trad wives, slut shaming. immigrants have taken over, racism only exists against white people, we cannot live like this, crime per capita rather than total crime, the degeneracy of the black community etc.

Clearly both the US and UK have significant societal and economic issues to deal with. White Christian Nationalism is seen by some as the solution. As a POC and father and husband of progressive, mixed heritage child / women (big kid is no longer a kid even though she will always be my baby) I do not agree and there is no incentive for me to do so.

Vam · Go Outside.

… and on the subject of cabals….if I was this kid’s Mom, I’d be beaming with pride 👏🏻👏🏻

https://x.com/cwebbonline/status/1967393912282312861?s=61