ChaoticMusings

Barksdale · Musing at the Chaos

RE: World Cup

Maddog · Still Here!

Barksdale wrote:
Maddog wrote:
He's not the only person far more qualified than anyone on this board to opine, that has come the same conclusion. In fact, outside of this board, Ive seen no one impartial and well qualified, that didn't think that call was bull shit.
The slow motion replay and stills make the tackle look worse than it is to be fair. Having watched it again in real time there probably isn't enough force to be deemed serious foul play but it is a subjective call.
So Balogun may have the right to feel hard done by as the red card to my knowledge still stands and he may have been fined for it. However, the point of VAR is to help ensure the quality and primacy of on-field decisions. Otherwise what you have is the situation which is springing up now - challenges post match with rulings by committees rather than the certainty of teams knowing what the position is when the game is concluded and planning their tactics for the next game based on that.

I think both players went in hard to challenge a ball neither had possession of. Give them both a red or neither. But I also know that I'm, not an expert. But I have the ability to seek out what the most qualified people on the planet think, and there is definitely a consensus.

Maddog · Still Here!

Red Okktober wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Rooney then launched into an angry rant, saying: "I think it's an absolute disgrace, I really do.

"I know it's UEFA but I got a three-game ban before Euro 2012. I was due to miss the three group games and I got told if I went over to Switzerland and did a training session with a bunch of kids, my third game would get taken off. I agreed to do it because I didn't want a three-game ban but I thought that was wrong.

"For this to be suspended, they either take the red card away which is probably the right decision and then he can play. But to suspend it for a year? I think it's an absolute disgrace. Infantino should be ashamed of this.

Rooney's colleague Micah Richards then chimed in: "It's an absolute farce isn't it? It wasn't a red card. Balogun was trying to protect the ball and he went down, it happens, football is a contact sport. To have it suspend it for a year makes a mockery of the whole tournament."

https://www.aol.com/entertainment/wayne-rooney-calls-fifas-folarin-015332870.html

I didn't need to Google Rooney. I know who he is. I had to Google Micah Richards. I think they both know a little bit about the game.
Unfortunately for the US team, neither Rooney or Richards were reffing the match. Not all red cards are clear and obvious, and many, like this one, are contentious, so you will get divided opinion. We get this every week in the UK over club football, and pundits will come out and say their piece. The two people whose opinions did count for something, the ref and VAR, were of the opinion it was a red card challenge.
The US team claimed the red card was unfair because there was no intent. However, intent in physical contact isn't part of the laws of football - the end result of an action is though, whether intended or not. I realise that the USA are new to top level football, but I would have thought they they would have had a basic understanding of those laws.
Studs down the back of an opponents ankle is deemed dangerous or reckless and worthy of a red card. Some will agree and some won't

They weren't reffing the match. But they saw the play same as you. Are you saying they don't understand the LOTG?

Vam · Go Outside.

Barksdale wrote:
FIFA have announced that all 5 referees for the France v Morocco game tomorrow are Argentinian.
The jokes write themselves at this point

🫪 Hoo-boy! All FIVE?

What could possibly go wrong….?

Red Okktober · Musing at the Chaos

Maddog wrote:

They weren't reffing the match. But they saw the play same as you. Are you saying they don't understand the LOTG?

In this instance, they clearly don't.

Here is ex-referee Dermot Gallagher giving his opinion on the tackle - you may be geo-blocked in the US as it's on Sky, but he is basically saying it's a red card worthy of a 3 match suspension as it endangered the safety of an opponent.

The pic above clearly shows Balogun's studs down the achilles of his opponent. On another day, that ankle could easily have been broken - in which case no one would have complained at the red card. But a red card isn't reliant on whether the ankle is broken or not, but on the action that led to the possibility of it being broken.

https://www.skysports.com/football/video/30998/13560919/folarin-balogun-ref-watch-reacts-to-usa-striker-suspension-being-overturned

Maddog · Still Here!

Red Okktober wrote:
Maddog wrote:

They weren't reffing the match. But they saw the play same as you. Are you saying they don't understand the LOTG?
In this instance, they clearly don't.
Here is ex-referee Dermot Gallagher giving his opinion on the tackle - you may be geo-blocked in the US as it's on Sky, but he is basically saying it's a red card worthy of a 3 match suspension as it endangered the safety of an opponent.
The pic above clearly shows Balogun's studs down the achilles of his opponent. On another day, that ankle could easily have been broken - in which case no one would have complained at the red card. But a red card isn't reliant on whether the ankle is broken or not, but on the action that led to the possibility of it being broken.
https://www.skysports.com/football/video/30998/13560919/folarin-balogun-ref-watch-reacts-to-usa-striker-suspension-being-overturned

And I guess neither does this guy..

"Andy Davies is a former Select Group referee, with over 12 seasons on the elite list, working across the Premier League and Championship. With extensive experience at the elite level, he has operated within the VAR space in the Premier League." 🤷

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Englands Jarell Quansah was also red carded, his foul was also unintentional but considered dangerous, not as dangerous as Beloguns though.
Should his red card stand?? or should Starmer get involved and make a fool of himself, just like Trump?

Maddog · Still Here!

Syl wrote:
Englands Jarell Quansah was also red carded, his foul was also unintentional but considered dangerous, not as dangerous as Beloguns though.
Should his red card stand?? or should Starmer get involved and make a fool of himself, just like Trump?

Were there scores of former players and refs that questioned that red card? I haven't seen any as it was a poorly performed slide tackle, not two players going after a loose ball.

I think most people agree that Trump getting involved was a bad idea. That's a completely different issue than was the evidence from the VAR conclusive?

Red Okktober · Musing at the Chaos

Maddog wrote:

Were there scores of former players and refs that questioned that red card? I haven't seen any as it was a poorly performed slide tackle, not two players going after a loose ball.

I think most people agree that Trump getting involved was a bad idea. That's a completely different issue than was the evidence from the VAR conclusive?

I will just leave this pic and ask you if you think there is potential for that ankle to be broken. Not if was broken, because we already know it wasn't, but was the potential there?

The sole of his foot is facing sideways while his leg remains upright - it take s fair bit of force to bend a leg like that. He is very lucky to escape broken bones imo

Red Okktober · Musing at the Chaos

Anyway, it doesn't matter now as the USA have been knocked out, despite the behind the scenes cheating.

Maddog · Still Here!

Red Okktober wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Were there scores of former players and refs that questioned that red card? I haven't seen any as it was a poorly performed slide tackle, not two players going after a loose ball.

I think most people agree that Trump getting involved was a bad idea. That's a completely different issue than was the evidence from the VAR conclusive?

I will just leave this pic and ask you if you think there is potential for that ankle to be broken. Not if was broken, because we already know it wasn't, but was the potential there?

The sole of his foot is facing sideways while his leg remains upright - it take s fair bit of force to bend a leg like that. He is very lucky to escape broken bones imo

I pretty sure that photo is widely available to the people that played and reffed the game at the highest level. The consensus is pretty clear.

I will bow to their superior knowledge of the game.

Maddog · Still Here!

Red Okktober wrote:
Anyway, it doesn't matter now as the USA have been knocked out, despite the behind the scenes cheating.

It's even better now. The Belgians beat us at full strength, and beat us good.

In fact, had I been the coach of Belgium I would have made it clear before the game that we want to play the Americans at full strength. I'd have said "we want your best 11 on the field, and we are going to beat your ass, and we don't want an asterix next to our win".

Vam · Go Outside.

So yeah, while we’re on the subject of good, unbiased ‘reffing’….and for anyone interested in seeing Messi getting a bit messy…

https://x.com/sandra_van_dam1/status/2074828505339048346?s=61

Vam · Go Outside.

‘It's even better now. The Belgians beat us at full strength, and beat us good.’

Fair point, except for the BIB.

In the grand scheme of things, and if interest in football is going to gain momentum among the American people, how can the current situation be even better?

To their credit, the USMNT really upped the ante in bringing the sport into the national spotlight and they were admired and cheered on by Americans, obviously, but also by people across the world. But the cackhanded way Balogun’s ban was dealt with wiped out much of that goodwill.

IOW - a PR messaging disaster, imo 🤷🏻‍♀️ USMNT management should have handled it better.

Syl · FIRM BUT FAIR.

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Englands Jarell Quansah was also red carded, his foul was also unintentional but considered dangerous, not as dangerous as Beloguns though.
Should his red card stand?? or should Starmer get involved and make a fool of himself, just like Trump?
Were there scores of former players and refs that questioned that red card? I haven't seen any as it was a poorly performed slide tackle, not two players going after a loose ball.

I think most people agree that Trump getting involved was a bad idea. That's a completely different issue than was the evidence from the VAR conclusive?

I believe it was a political decision, the red card should have stood.

Obviously opinions differ.

Maddog · Still Here!

Vam wrote:
‘It's even better now. The Belgians beat us at full strength, and beat us good.’
Fair point, except for the BIB.
In the grand scheme of things, and if interest in football is going to gain momentum among the American people, how can the current situation be even better?
To their credit, the USMNT really upped the ante in bringing the sport into the national spotlight and they were admired and cheered on by Americans, obviously, but also by people across the world. But the cackhanded way Balogun’s ban was dealt with wiped out much of that goodwill.
IOW - a PR messaging disaster, imo 🤷🏻‍♀️ USMNT management should have handled it better.

The people who are heaping praise upon the Americans aren't doing so because of the USMNT. The event didn't really matter in terms of the goodwill. Many of the Americans embracing all of our guests, may have never watched a game. It's just a party in our country and we feel the need to embrace our guests.

Soccer is at best the 5th most popular sport here, and may now be the 6th, behind the WNBA. The average attendance for an FC Dallas home game is about 11,000 people, in a stadium that holds 20,000 people. That could change because millennials here played and understand the game, and they are having kids approaching playing age. But soccer is a sport reserved mostly for kids of somewhat affluent parents and the best athletes tend to go to other sports, except the girl's side. Which is why the USWNT has had so much success.

Maddog · Still Here!

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:
Englands Jarell Quansah was also red carded, his foul was also unintentional but considered dangerous, not as dangerous as Beloguns though.
Should his red card stand?? or should Starmer get involved and make a fool of himself, just like Trump?
Were there scores of former players and refs that questioned that red card? I haven't seen any as it was a poorly performed slide tackle, not two players going after a loose ball.

I think most people agree that Trump getting involved was a bad idea. That's a completely different issue than was the evidence from the VAR conclusive?

I believe it was a political decision, the red card should have stood.
Obviously opinions differ.

I think it was probably political too. But there were scores of people, very well informed people, that thought the card was a bad call. Without them casting doubt, that call doesn't get made, or the suspension isn't reversed.

Date: Jul 9 7:26 AM, 2026

Red Okktober wrote:

The US team claimed the red card was unfair because there was no intent. However, intent in physical contact isn't part of the laws of football - the end result of an action is though, whether intended or not.

That's a key point that seems to have escaped the Texan. If he recklessly discharged his firearm in the Fort Worth Stockyards he'd be in jail for it, irrespective of whether or not he intended to injure someone. Mind you no doubt he'll keep arguing about it just to try to claim a win.

Vam · Go Outside.

“The people who are heaping praise upon the Americans aren't doing so because of the USMNT. The event didn't really matter in terms of the goodwill. Many of the Americans embracing all of our guests, may have never watched a game. It's just a party in our country and we feel the need to embrace our guests.”

I disagree.

Throughout this thread, I’ve often commented that - outside of the Washington swamp - it’s been really great to see how warmly Americans have interacted with visitors and players from across the globe. That’s not the issue, and not the point I was making.

But I’m assuming American football organisations would like to see the sport gain much more prominence within American sporting culture. Imo, the USMNT were instrumental in helping to make that happen at this World Cup. The team was very popular with Americans and foreigners alike, and everyone was happily rooting for them to do well in the tournament…..until the Orange fukker started meddling and told Infantino to ‘Jump! ….🙄 That cast a shadow over the whole event.

And imo, USMNT management mishandled the aftermath of that, which dissipated much of the goodwill we were seeing.

-- Edited by Vam on Thursday 9th of July 2026 08:00:15 AM

Barksdale · Musing at the Chaos

Maddog wrote:

But soccer is a sport reserved mostly for kids of somewhat affluent parents and the best athletes tend to go to other sports, except the girl's side. Which is why the USWNT has had so much success.

The USMNT is a bit stuffed then I guess and won't be an elite team for the foreseeable future. If you don't have an academy-type system which is accessible by the breadth of your potential talent then you don't have a pipeline of good players coming through. I also understand MLS doesn't have promotion / relegation so you don't have the natural sorting mechanism for identifying good players who compete at the highest level of their ability to pick from.

What was obvious from this World Cup was how reliant you are on your starting X1 and your lack of squad depth meaning less tactical versatility to respond as a game changes. That's what undid Mexico in the end when it came to the game against us. They just couldn't find the answers in the last 30 minutes or so of the game to breach our defence and get an equaliser as they had limited options.

You'll have to make do with being the best in the second greatest tournament in the World - the Olympics.